General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

[aetherialDawn]

No, the reverse-blade scythe of Zatesh can pull things into the beyond.

I'm fairly sure that the scythe of Zatesh (Which is Luna's now, since she defeated and absorbed all that Zatesh would have been) merely "pulls and cuts at the Wyld."
(In other words, I think Luna is the one who carried Laashe to the Beyond, and the scythe is just how she grabbed him.)

The difference is at most "Can Luna give this power to someone else by handing over the Scythe" - and I suspect the answer is no.

[Rockphed]

On that note, since we're on the subject of Fair Folk, where best would I put a repository of Fair Folk NPCs I've built if I wanted you forum folks to be able to see them? So far they're fairly rules-legit, so such a thread wouldn't likely need to go in Homebrew...

Someone once posted an advanced monster with a couple templates added to it in homebrew. I am fairly certain NPCs are legit there. If you don't want to believe me, The Glyphstone or Mark Hall can probably answer your question. I don't remember if either posts in this thread.

[Rhyvurg]

Fair Folk give me headaches...but yeah, I'm curious.

[Tavar]

Someone once posted an advanced monster with a couple templates added to it in homebrew. I am fairly certain NPCs are legit there. If you don't want to believe me, The Glyphstone or Mark Hall can probably answer your question. I don't remember if either posts in this thread.

There is a character compendium here.

[The Glyphstone]

Someone once posted an advanced monster with a couple templates added to it in homebrew. I am fairly certain NPCs are legit there. If you don't want to believe me, The Glyphstone or Mark Hall can probably answer your question. I don't remember if either posts in this thread.

I do now.

And yeah, Homebrew would be the proper place for a thread dedicated to posting things like NPC stats. One-off things are okay for a discussion thread (such as Meschlum's occasional Oneiromancies), but if you've got a big lump of such creations, it'd be best to make a thread and link to it.

[Amechra]

*Sidereal pops his head in*

Here, take this.

*Roll to remember me, people.*

[Urpriest]

Hey guys, quick rules clarification: if a Malefactor wants to use Scoured Perfection of form to give someone a mutation, and that someone is not currently a creature of darkness, then the charm would need to be used twice, first to grant Creature of Darkness and second to grant the desired mutation, correct?

[vegetalss4]

Hey guys, quick rules clarification: if a Malefactor wants to use Scoured Perfection of form to give someone a mutation, and that someone is not currently a creature of darkness, then the charm would need to be used twice, first to grant Creature of Darkness and second to grant the desired mutation, correct?

That is correct.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Does Heaven's Reach have something like TV, or even radio? Or is it a setting that's focused all technology towards transportation and fighting?

[Lord Raziere]

Yes of course it has tv and radio. why would an advanced civilization of thousands upon thousands of planets, even not develop the long range communications vital for maintaining such infrastructure over such vast expanses? I doubt civilization could get so large without them, as TV is also vital for commercial purposes which allow the companies that make all this work to keep selling their products, and long range communication to make sure everyone is working together and all that.

it'd be like if we somehow got cars and internet without going through the steam engine first. would make NO sense at all.

[The Glyphstone]

This is a setting with tyrannosaurs that pee heroin, at what point did 'making sense' become a priority to Creation?

[Draken]

I believe that communications is all handled by the huge goddamn cyberspace mountain full of god-programs that do nothing but handle information on a hourly basis.

Might be wrong, but probably not.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Yes of course it has tv and radio. why would an advanced civilization of thousands upon thousands of planets, even not develop the long range communications vital for maintaining such infrastructure over such vast expanses? I doubt civilization could get so large without them, as TV is also vital for commercial purposes which allow the companies that make all this work to keep selling their products, and long range communication to make sure everyone is working together and all that.

it'd be like if we somehow got cars and internet without going through the steam engine first. would make NO sense at all.

Standard Exalted has power armor, flying vehicles, and mechas.

I don't think real-world common sense is a deciding factor.

The closest we get to any mention of TV is the fact that average Empire civilians have reliable entertainment. And late medieval England also had that.

[Drascin]

As for Internet, there's the Grand Celestial Mountain, and who cares about mortals?

The other mortals, mostly. With so much time and so much tech, if you assume that humans in Heaven's Reach work anything lik real humans, you can bet mortals have managed to cobble up something.

[Hiro Protagonest]

The other mortals, mostly. With so much time and so much tech, if you assume that humans in Heaven's Reach work anything lik real humans, you can bet mortals have managed to cobble up something.

I changed my post.

Although the fact that reliable Essence use didn't come around until Immaculate Golden Engineer, long after they developed FTL speeds, does have some factor. But really, what do the exalts care about giving mortals TV when they're perfectly happy with plays?

[Drascin]

I changed my post.

Although the fact that reliable Essence use didn't come around until Immaculate Golden Engineer, long after they developed FTL speeds, does have some factor. But really, what do the exalts care about giving mortals TV when they're perfectly happy with plays?

And again, what the Exalts want to give doesn't really matter so much as what the mortals themselves make. I find it highly suspect that humans would have created starships, advanced physics, FTL, and freaking Exaltations before making any way to share entertainment. Heaven's Reach mortals are clearly allowed to invent things without any artificial writer failure to understand how progress works, like they suffer in Creation, and entertainment is always one of the most lucrative businesses in the world for a reason .

[Lord Raziere]

yea, but all that stuff only came about because there was the necessary infrastructure there to make it happen! and the First Emperor, along with Dragon-Blooded and such came about LONG before any Solar Exalted! Long before any of this essence technology was made!
Namely, yes, you can have you nonsensical flying machines, power suits and mecha- but those only became possible when the infrastructure of civilization could support it, and for that you need various ways of communicating along with your transportation and such, and guess what, the First Age also had I AM, which was also an instant communications network.

and even if you acknowledge that yes, the Exalts might not contribute to mortal life, the mortals came first and had like, thousands to millions of years to make this stuff, and we mortals unlike Exalts NEED this kind of infrastructure to develop all this technology, and probably couldn't have even gotten to the moon if we didn't develop this long range communication tech beforehand and so on and so forth. and furthermore, there needed to have been some people to build the various Exaltations in the first place, which it make it possible to have Exalts to not build stuff for mortals, who built the Exaltations!

technology isn't something you conjure from thin air. you need to make a bunch of things that make a bunch of other things possible, so that you can make the original thing you want to make, possible! elsewise, it would be impractical or even impossible to make, because you can't make internet from medieval age tools, because it would be too complex, difficult, time-consuming and so on to do! Without precise long-range communication in a space opera setting, its going to fall apart, because large civilizations just don't work without such communication. its not a thing Exalts can circumvent.

[The Glyphstone]

Heaven's Reach mortals are clearly allowed to invent things without any artificial writer failure to understand how progress works, like they suffer in Creation, and entertainment is always one of the most lucrative businesses in the world for a reason .

Particularly entertainment of the flavor we have to be oblique about discussing here. So figure out who's making that and how they'd try to distribute it, and you'll know what technologies are more likely to result.

Without precise long-range communication in a space opera setting, its going to fall apart, because large civilizations just don't work without such communication. its not a thing Exalts can circumvent.

Can't they, I dunno, go and punch the Shinma of Not Being Able To Communicate Over Long Distances?

[golentan]

Particularly entertainment of the flavor we have to be oblique about discussing here. So figure out who's making that and how they'd try to distribute it, and you'll know what technologies are more likely to result.

Can't they, I dunno, go and punch the Shinma of Not Being Able To Communicate Over Long Distances?

They have Full Sensory High Def VR?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Can't they, I dunno, go and punch the Shinma of Not Being Able To Communicate Over Long Distances?

There isn't a Shinma for every specific thing. I don't think killing gods works either, since you can still do that and their domain is still there. The closest thing you could do is to kill the Shinma of Distance or Space or whatever, which would be worthy of an epic facepalm. I don't think there's a being for each specific consequence of having set distances.

[The Glyphstone]

There isn't a Shinma for every specific thing. I don't think killing gods works either, since you can still do that and their domain is still there. The closest thing you could do is to kill the Shinma of Distance or Space or whatever, which would be worthy of an epic facepalm. I don't think there's a being for each specific consequence of having set distances.

More like epic campaign than epic facepalm. A well-meaning but misguided Circle has set off to hunt down and destroy the Shinma of Distance, to make communication and travel all across Creation instantaneously easy and free for the benefit of all. You, an equally well-meaning and much smarter Circle, need to get there first so you can defend the Shinma from them...but it is the Shinma of Distance, very good at staying away from people it doesn't want to be near, and is hiding from both of you...

[Lord Raziere]

There isn't a Shinma for every specific thing. I don't think killing gods works either, since you can still do that and their domain is still there. The closest thing you could do is to kill the Shinma of Distance or Space or whatever, which would be worthy of an epic facepalm. I don't think there's a being for each specific consequence of having set distances.

Yea, messing with Shinma is messing with the pillars that define reality,to kill one is to remake everything you ever known. and they aren't narrow- they are so wide, they define things like "things exist" kill the shinma that defines that, and nothing exists anymore.

Edit: and furthermore….shinma aren't really people. they are….principles of reality. they are so basic and fundamental….that well, bacteria are more complex than them. they are cogs in the greater reality machine that the Primordials built. messing with shinma, I repeat is not an epic quest thing, its a "are you a stupid hubristic moron?" thing, on par with making a Protoshinmaic Vortex in hubristic pride.

that and you don't need to go said epic quest to mess with Shinma- Solars have a charm for that, and its called Shinmaic Calibration, and Shinmaic Communion. Probably the most overpowered charms ever.

[Exthalion]

I should note that TV and Radio as they are normally meant are entirely unnecessary for an advanced industrial society. Writing and the wheel aren't necessary for empire or advanced and complicated infrastructure projects.

It is entirely possible that in the Heaven's Reach setting that such things are not as common or popular as they are in our real world. While they may have the necessary understanding of science to construct such devices they might have no need to do so.

Put another way, there are no such things as tech levels or society levels. Civilizations do not develop at the same rate in or in the same way in every area.

Perhaps moralists in the ancient days said radio dramas would be the end of family values and were believed. Thus tv was never invented and advertising as such is done through the form of print catalogs from the major trade conglomerates. For all we know, radio is now regarded with much the same regard as we now look at like bear baiting is now.

Thus it is entirely up to the ST and players to decide if they want these things in their Creation.

Edit: The Shinma you are all discussing ganking is Nirvikalpa, shinma of communication. The Daystar has gates using it to travel without distance.

Also, the Shinma predate the primordials, they were not constructed by them. The Titans studied them the same way we study the laws of physics.

[Lix Lorn]

More like epic campaign than epic facepalm. A well-meaning but misguided Circle has set off to hunt down and destroy the Shinma of Distance, to make communication and travel all across Creation instantaneously easy and free for the benefit of all. You, an equally well-meaning and much smarter Circle, need to get there first so you can defend the Shinma from them...but it is the Shinma of Distance, very good at staying away from people it doesn't want to be near, and is hiding from both of you...

All who think Glyph just volunteered to run this, say aye?

[Drascin]

Put another way, there are no such things as tech levels or society levels. Civilizations do not develop at the same rate in or in the same way in every area.

This is completely ture. but I remain convinced that such a civilization would almost inevitably make up some way of sharing news and entertainment. What shape this would take, I honestly have no idea, but people are way too curious to not want to know what's happening elsewhere, and as Glyph said, where there are humans, almost inevitably there'll be some form of porn .

[The Glyphstone]

All who think Glyph just volunteered to run this, say aye?

Sure, as long as we don't use the Exalted system. Even eldritch horrors cringe from those rules...

[Lix Lorn]

Awwwwwww.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Sure, as long as we don't use the Exalted system. Even eldritch horrors cringe from those rules...

The March errata is making it playable.

Besides, if you try to use D&D 3.5 to play Exalted, I will slap you.

[Lord Raziere]

I should note that TV and Radio as they are normally meant are entirely unnecessary for an advanced industrial society. Writing and the wheel aren't necessary for empire or advanced and complicated infrastructure projects.


Also, the Shinma predate the primordials, they were not constructed by them. The Titans studied them the same way we study the laws of physics.

1. they are if you want to get beyond medieval empires. technology isn't some thing of options, there are certain necessary things that need to be developed, for other things to be developed as well. sure, some paths of technolgy could be built rather than others, but at a certain point to advance you need to build certain kinds of technology for other things to be possible.


2. I already knew this, they used the Shinma as building materials to set the stage for building Creation. I need no correction.

[The Glyphstone]

The March errata is making it playable.

Besides, if you try to use D&D 3.5 to play Exalted, I will slap you.

I was thinking TOON, actually....Disclaimer. I don't actually know the TOON rules either.