General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

[Exthalion]

no, it is the lack of free will that is the delusion. you always have a choice. even choosing not to choose, is a choice. furthermore, the world is chaos, it may have patterns but they are so many, so complex and clash against each other so often that it might as well be chaos. thinking that you can suppress freedom, that you can predict the chaos of humanity in all its unendable individuality, is what is foolish.

Its entirely possible time doesn't actually exist and that the universe is holographic in nature. In which case there is again, no choice because there is no time in which a choice can be made. In that case the apparent choice and its outcome both 'exist' (there is no already because there is no after). Also, the appearance of choice could just be an artifact of our neural architecture and have no actual connection with how the world actually works. In much the same way that it seem the sun moves across the sky.

I is possible one of the terrible realities of Samsara is that it doesn't force compliance even to the Maidens. It just shows you what is on reflection the best choice. Sort of like Leto's Golden Path, it was neither ideal nor the choice people would have made if they hadn't known what the outcomes would be. It was simply the choice which leads to the best outcome even if it is not the choice that anyone would want for itself.

So you don't want to act against it. You hate it, knowing that you are following your assigned role, but if everyone broke form the social contract that would be much worse. So everyone would stay in lockstep rather then accept the price of suffering required to deviate from Samsara.

[Dragnar]

Was his fetich soul killed, and his new nature as Sacheverell means that if he awakens, then free will dies

This exactly. In fact, he is in large part why they stopped just murdering fetiches. The Lidless Eye That Sees saw the present perfectly. So, obviously, he had to go first or all war planning would become useless. Problem being, they killed him, and he came back as something that saw the FUTURE perfectly. This rather terrified both sides, so they kept fetich-death to a carefully regulated minimum.

[Exthalion]

This exactly. In fact, he is in large part why they stopped just murdering fetiches. The Lidless Eye That Sees saw the present perfectly. So, obviously, he had to go first or all war planning would become useless. Problem being, they killed him, and he came back as something that saw the FUTURE perfectly. This rather terrified both sides, so they kept fetich-death to a carefully regulated minimum.

Didn't they have the section of the Sun that was shielded from his gaze? Would smaller scale versions have been that hard for Twilights and Jadeborn to whip up in a hurry? They already took the time to train them so they weren't fresh.

[Lord Raziere]

Maybe shielded from the Lidless Eye That Sees.

Probably not from Sacheverell. Such a section was probably built before the Primordial War for planning purposes, and probably took only the Lidless Eye That Sees into account, but when fetich death happened, I doubt that the same rules would apply to Sacheverell to shield his gaze. since its easier, cheaper and far more plausible to just keep Sacheverell asleep forever, thats what they did.

[Exthalion]

What I meant was, they didn't have to gang the Lidless Eye that Sees first because they could have planned around him.

[Sanguine]

What I meant was, they didn't have to gang the Lidless Eye that Sees first because they could have planned around him.

He was still a very large tactical asset to the Primordials. For one thing, he would know where the Exalted Host's base(s) of operations are. Even if you can ward an area from his view that doesn't help much, as any such warded places are gonna come under immediate suspicion. Especially if Solars were in the area immediately before it was cut off from his view. He would also know where all of the Exalted are at all times. His death was utterly necessary for the war to be successful; for the very simple reason that for as long as he lived the Exalted Host could never know a moments rest.

[TimeWizard]

I have Sidereal question: I'm told that they can do crazy awesome stuff like "punch people so they transform into a flock of ducks" and "Point at someone and say BANG! and they die" but so far all i've found is moves that make you forgotten easy. Did i buy into overhype or are the aforementioned duck and gun charms real? 'cuz if so I'm going to need to get my duck hunt on.

[Sanguine]

I have Sidereal question: I'm told that they can do crazy awesome stuff like "punch people so they transform into a flock of ducks" and "Point at someone and say BANG! and they die" but so far all i've found is moves that make you forgotten easy. Did i buy into overhype or are the aforementioned duck and gun charms real? 'cuz if so I'm going to need to get my duck hunt on.

The punch someone into a duck Charm is a high Essence Charm in Scroll of the Monk, a book that is incredibly borked mechanically. The other Charm you mention is Holistic Bullet Methodology which can be found in Shards of the Exalted Dream, a much better book. Unfortunately it is a Charm for the Firearms ability which doesn't see play in your average game. Sidereals do however have lots of other cool and unusual Charms. As for the easily forgotten thing, that's not a Charm, that's an innate part of their Exaltation.

[golentan]

As sanguine says. But sidereals can still do awesome stuff in their core charmset. Some of my favorite tricks include "Know anything that at least 100 people anywhere in fate know" (Efficient Secretary Technique), Make people fall in love with you or not hate you by saying their name particularly prettily (Favorable Inflection Procedure), turning a fish or the word "no" into an arrow ready for firing (Generalized Ammunition Technique), and arriving where you're going on time no matter how far away it is through the magic of plot (yellow path)

[Lord Raziere]

there is more than just that you can do with Sidereals.

You can for example, with one charm, be on time for anything no matter the distance, as long as the thing in question is an actual deadline.

You can also create a little spider that you can use to ask for lots of facts to help you figure stuff out.

There is that charm, Avoiding the Truth Technique, where you deflect peoples attention from the truth by stating it in such a way that people deny it or make people think your not telling the truth.

You can turn any mortal you like into an awesome flying dragon.

You really can see the future. there is like, two or three charms for that.

There is also Methodology of Secrets, where you can like switch around specializations, Sidereal Shell Games where you steal other characters dice,
a defensive charm that protects you by making people see their loved ones face instead of your own- that approx what it does- and a whole bunch of other things like that.

the duck-punching and no-gun shooting are just the tip of the iceberg. the real awesome in Sidereals, is looking at the sweet, limited tools you have and figuring out how to use them effectively in clever ways.

[HerrTenko]

And let us never forget Neighborhood Relocation Scheme. It is a Dodge charm that allows you to move CITIES around. I still don't get what it's doing in the Dodge tree, but good gods is it cool.

[Tavar]

It's in the Dodge tree because Sidereal abilities are less about the ability and more about what the maiden in question thinks about the ability. Dodge is all about the best way to not get hurt is to not be present. Thus, things that move you out of the way are available. Additionally, because Sidereals are Weird Fate Ninja, they can have odd applications in an ability: for instance, allowing a city to dodge, or killing spirits through bureaucracy.

[HerrTenko]

This is pretty much what I thought was the most probable explanation. Thanks, Tavar, for your teachings!

[TimeWizard]

The punch someone into a duck Charm is a high Essence Charm in Scroll of the Monk

What's it called?

The other Charm you mention is Holistic Bullet Methodology which can be found in Shards of the Exalted Dream

Thank you!

arriving where you're going on time no matter how far away it is through the magic of plot (yellow path)

Awesome

There is also Methodology of Secrets, where you can like switch around specializations, Sidereal Shell Games where you steal other characters dice, a defensive charm that protects you by making people see their loved ones face instead of your own

Awesome.

You can for example, with one charm, be on time for anything no matter the distance, as long as the thing in question is an actual deadline

Is this the same as Yellow Path?

Any more great ideas you guys have are appreciated. I've got an Eclipse character with a lot of xp to spend, and I'm looking for the Cool and Unusual.

[Lix Lorn]

Any more great ideas you guys have are appreciated. I've got an Eclipse character with a lot of xp to spend, and I'm looking for the Cool and Unusual.

This is likely to vastly reduce your help. xD
A lot of (read: 99% of) the Exalted fanbase HATE that part of Eclipses.

I'd recommend getting cool Solar stuff. It does exist!
Heaven Thunder Hammer. Punch someone so hard they go flying.
Lightnign Strikes Twice. Appear where they land and PUNCH THEM AGAIN.
Flicker Fade Recursion. TWICE.

[Sanguine]

What's it called?

I forget which Charm it is, but it's part of Charcoal March of Spiders Style. I feel I must repeat my warning about Scroll of the Monk being utterly broken.

[Kobold-Bard]

What's it called?

...

Pattern Spider Touch, penultimate Charm in Charcoal March of Spiders.

... With a successful unarmed attack, a character can use this Charm to fundamentally change his target, reweaving the structure of the target’s existence. Doing so causes one of the following effects:
• Transforms the target into a beast, robbing him of her mind and shape. ...

You can also turn them into a cloud or a sentient pinecone.

[Qwertystop]

What's that one about hiding in somebody's bowl of oatmeal or between the minutes in an hour?

[Kobold-Bard]

What's that one about hiding in somebody's bowl of oatmeal or between the minutes in an hour?

God Ways (Prismatic Arrangement of Creation) lets you hide inside objects & still make Martial Arts attacks.

The rest is a Resplendency of The Mask:

...
• Everywhere and Nowhere Technique, one Endurance, three Paradox dice per week:
The character can conceal herself in the most unlikely of places—between raindrops, between the moments of the hour and behind the curtains on a dusty stair in a faraway town.
...

[TimeWizard]

Charcoal March of Spiders is my new favorite thing of everything ever. Well, that and everything else. This is great.

On a completely different path, I can't decide between Bastion of the Self (Sword) and (Heart). Also, are there any charms or other tricks to increase my number of motes?

[Exthalion]

Be careful, most serious combatants (Exalts) will have a perfect and shaping defense. Meaning a similar XP solar will IPP the numerous shaping effects and SSE against everything bad touch. Assuming you hit their DVs which may be difficult as they can be better martial artists then you in so much as martial arts is an ability and not weird philosophy.

That said, the best place of the Martial Arts styles is supplementing native capabilities. Dreaming Pearl for example is great for social characters.

[Sanguine]

Be careful, most serious combatants (Exalts) will have a perfect and shaping defense. Meaning a similar XP solar will IPP the numerous shaping effects and SSE against everything bad touch. Assuming you hit their DVs which may be difficult as they can be better martial artists then you in so much as martial arts is an ability and not weird philosophy.

That said, the best place of the Martial Arts styles is supplementing native capabilities. Dreaming Pearl for example is great for social characters.

You may have missed it, but he's playing an Eclipse, not a Sidereal.

[meschlum]

Charcoal March of Spiders is my new favorite thing of everything ever. Well, that and everything else. This is great.

On a completely different path, I can't decide between Bastion of the Self (Sword) and (Heart). Also, are there any charms or other tricks to increase my number of motes?

Bastion of the Self is a Native charm, meaning you can't pick up as an Eclipse.

Of course, it's a Fair Folk charm, which means you can, but the rules are weird that way. You can even pick up multiple copies, despite the Charm text. Just use Adjurations - a 3-dot Adjuration gives you one Bastion, and you can have many Adjurations. Just make sure that the underlying oaths don't overlap, and you're set.


If you're interested in picking up Fair Folk charms (and don't want to just get them all for free via Grace Magic and shenanigans), Overriding Construct of Fate is fun. Punch people a mile away on contact? Yes, please. At Essence 6, Style Improving Spirit lets you improvise Sorcery of up to Celestial Tier, as needed and without the weaknesses of Sorcery (its flaw is allowing willpower use to counter, but facing a foe with 5 less willpower than before is good anyway).

Have a look here for some lunatic's review of all the post-errata Charms. There may be bits of good advice in there.


For your daily mote requirements, Grace Magic (Oneiromancy) is the answer. On the other hand, Grace Magic generally is the answer anyway, so...

Paean to the God-Kings

The Raksha have trouble understanding the concept of worship - why should a mortal's mumbling devotions matter to the gods? Still, it is evident that the Exalted find something of value to it, and the Fair Folk are, at the very least, consummate imitators. Thus, the Paean was created, a means by which mortal prayer might be put to good use rather than wasted on the gods, those *****rdly imposers of tedious rules.

When the owner of the Paean proclaims herself a newborn divinity at two of the main churches of a kingdom, its effect spreads into the land - and the new goddess - so that each invocation of the new Power grants her greater might.

4-dot Oneiromancy
Assumption of the Living Kingdom - the Paean affects an entire nation.
Assumption of the Person's Heart - it also melds with its owner, ensuring it is always available.
Mad God Mien - the Paean cannot be undone by counter magic.
Heart Stealing Kiss - each day, the Paean claims a small portion of the Conviction of any being praying to its owner.
Manacles of Virtue - and restores said Conviction with a gossamer copy that works just as well.

Mechanically, the Paean is a mote battery with unlimited capacity, gaining 2 motes per day per worshipper. With no ill effects on the worshippers, of course, and potentially affecting tens of thousands of people. It does take some time to recharge from the Paean (misc. action), but it can and will replenish all your motes as often as you need once it's been running for a while - and it runs for 101 years.

[Exthalion]

You may have missed it, but he's playing an Eclipse, not a Sidereal.

I noticed. But using SMA as your only offensive or defensive option is a quick way for a Solar to mote tap themselves. I was trying to point out that two E2 native charms remove most of the teeth of those Elder essence charms. Thus an Exalted opponent will not really care that you can free the father from the child or what not.

[Qwertystop]

Have you seen? Mythweavers has an Exalted sheet!

It's pretty rocky, as they apparently have nobody who actually plays Exalted on-staff, but still!

[TheCountAlucard]

...using SMA as your only offensive or defensive option is a quick way for a Solar to mote tap themselves.

At least, until you get that Charm where none of your Martial Arts Charms cost any motes to use.

[Kobold-Bard]

At least, until you get that Charm where none of your Martial Arts Charms cost any motes to use.

And what one would that be?

[TheCountAlucard]

And what one would that be?

Echoes of Infinity. Requires MA 6 and Essence 7 (which means that a Solar or Sidereal can get to it at MA 5, Essence 6), and works for the rest of the scene, as long as there's a square yard of reflective surfaces in the ill-defined area.

Of course, by the time you get access to that, you're already terrifying by dint of having a perfect attack-redirector, a scene-long PD, and the ability to conjure up copies of people (and up to thirty of yourself). Oh, and you can banish people to a mirror forever, break someone's mind, and render your attacks undodgeable for the scene.

[Tavar]

Sidereal Martial Arts, a paragon of Balance, along with such gems as Zeal.

[golentan]

Given his response to Sidereal martial arts, I'm not sure bringing up Zeal is a good idea...