General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

[Kobold-Bard]

How does the Imperfection of The Principle of Hierarchy (Infernals p.133) interact with the 2.5 combo rules?

If it stays the same then it just became significantly harder to apply because every combo will be different and there's no way to really track which Combos the GSP has seen.

Should that rule be scrapped, and just leave the surcharge on unfamiliar Charms, or does that make it too powerful?

[golentan]

How does the Imperfection of The Principle of Hierarchy (Infernals p.133) interact with the 2.5 combo rules?

If it stays the same then it just became significantly harder to apply because every combo will be different and there's no way to really track which Combos the GSP has seen.

Should that rule be scrapped, and just leave the surcharge on unfamiliar Charms, or does that make it too powerful?

My rule has been if you are familiar with every charm declared in the Combo, you are ok, but if one or more charms are new to you than the combo as a whole is affected by the imperfection.

[Arrghus]

How does the Imperfection of The Principle of Hierarchy (Infernals p.133) interact with the 2.5 combo rules?

Badly. 2.5 left a lot of peripheral Exalts in a somewhat jumbled state (Infernals lost a lot, Alchemicals gained a lot, among other things).

[TimeWizard]

It's "Avoid at all costs".

And here I thought that Sidereal Martial Arts were one of the most powerful things you could learn in Exalted. Playground hivemind, your thoughts?

[Lix Lorn]

Sidereal Martial Arts are either over or underpowered, often shatter the setting with their implications, and are generally not recommended for beginners.

[Kobold-Bard]

And here I thought that Sidereal Martial Arts were one of the most powerful things you could learn in Exalted. Playground hivemind, your thoughts?

They are powerful in the same way Celerity & Contingency are powerful in D&D.

In that they are canon, but they should never, ever be used.

[Sanguine]

And here I thought that Sidereal Martial Arts were one of the most powerful things you could learn in Exalted. Playground hivemind, your thoughts?

They vary between extremely over powered, utterly underpowered, and completely unusable, as in their mechanics don't actually work, often within a single style. Their is a single style in Glories: Miadens that is considered mechanically sound, all others should be avoided like the plague.

[Qwertystop]

Question: Where's that alternate-setting discussion that was going around this thread a bit before Shards? Specifically, the one where the Primordials made the different types of Exalts to oppose, counter, and negate the different Incarnae?

If I remember correctly, Infernals were their first go, just giving their own power to mortals, and Abyssals were... them being very non-subtle about their aims with the first few Solars, I think? Not sure.

[Amechra]

I posted something about the Exalts being designed as replacements for the Incarnae a bit after Shards, but I doubt that's what you are talking about...

[TimeWizard]

ahhh, Shards. The only use of the phrase "Holistic" I can get behind. Also, Space Marine Scarlet Empress is pretty rad.

[Doran]

I'm planning to use Qwixalted for 6 hour exalted one-shot next week, does anyone have any tips on using it?

Also I'm interested alternate methods of Social Combat for example like the one Jukashi has in Lunar Quest - does anyone know any good ones?

[TheCountAlucard]

And here I thought that Sidereal Martial Arts were one of the most powerful things you could learn in Exalted. Playground hivemind, your thoughts?

The capstones of both Obsidian Shards of Infinity Style and Quicksilver Hand of Dreams Style let you dictate how the rest of the scene plays out.

The capstone of Scarlet-Patterned Battlefield Style attaches "any effect that the target suffers in Step 10 of attack resolution, including rolled damage, knockdown, stunning and the myriad enhancements that Charms can apply" that the target racks up for the rest of the scene to all the target's minions, subordinates, friends, and allies, everywhere.

Charcoal March of Spiders Style lets you create new Exalts. And that isn't even with the capstone Charm! The capstone, in case you were wondering, is that one that's been discussed that lets you kill everyone on the Blessed Isle at the same time.

Each of these are things that could, individually, defeat the Usurpation, and all of these are available before Essence 7.

Believe me, you're doing yourself a favor by staying away from them.

[meschlum]

No way that could go horribly wrong.

Seriously though, sorcerous binding isn't perfect. The horror stories told about foolish sorcerers and demonologists who slip up somehow and pay a terrible price for their hubris are mostly exaggerated... but not entirely. Demons do have Limit tracks. If you've bound too many retainers for you to keep track of all your servants... well. That's asking for trouble. (Demons bound to guard a tomb are unlikely to gain Limit; demons who follow you around in immaterial form at all times are likely to rack it up in one way or another.)

And, regrettably, Raksha do it better. Of course.

Specifically, per errata, a Raksha who swears an oath has to stick to the spirit as well as the letter of the oath - so you avoid all the risks involved in demon summoning by using Fair Folk instead.

Assumption of the Person's Heart lets them go immaterial when not working for you.

If you must have demons, chargen (essence 4) Workers with Heart Stopping Numinous Power and Style Improving Spirit can spontaneously spam Demon of the Second Circle with an Oneiromancy (or charms), forcing the target demon to burn infinite willpower to resist. Or creating unlimited numbers of second circle demons which require 5 willpower for their victoms to ignore. Get three or more demons, and enjoy. It all depends on your ST's interpretation of the text, which errata does not clarify (of course).


The Raksha approach to problems is certainly unique in its modularity, but it's probably helpful for creating high power Exalts. Don't focus on 'being very good at something'. Instead, pick a few awesome tricks, and figure out how to do them very well - it's more fun and (potentially) less destructive to the setting.

How do you want to transform your exceptional social skills into combat potential? Use insults so vicious they cut through flesh and armor? Hum a tune that deflects enemy weapons and lifts you above the ground? Talk the small gods that are your foe's body into becoming the small gods of carp? Convince an unstoppable juggernaught or two to serve and protect you? Charm reality into giving you extra lives and letting you interact with Creation remotely?

Those are just things Fair Folk can do - so Exalts certainly could, and much more besides - and they're all more fun than "keeping up with the tanks".

[Kiero]

I'm planning to use Qwixalted for 6 hour exalted one-shot next week, does anyone have any tips on using it?

Also I'm interested alternate methods of Social Combat for example like the one Jukashi has in Lunar Quest - does anyone know any good ones?

I'd PM NUNboi, he posts on here from time to time and is knowledgeable on the system.

As a general rule, have pregens ready for a one-shot so you have the option of an immediate start. While chargen isn't lengthy in Qwixalted, it may speed things up a lot if people have examples or something they can simply take and customise.

What sort of game are you intending (ie single-splat or mixed? How experienced?)?

Qwixalted has a built in Social Combat system which can't be worse than the Storyteller one.

[Story Time]

Specifically, per errata, a Raksha who swears an oath has to stick to the spirit as well as the letter of the oath - so you avoid all the risks involved in demon summoning by using Fair Folk instead.

...it really bothers me that the most random posts contain data relevant to what I want to run in the future. Way-off-in-the-future future, but still...

[Doran]

I'd PM NUNboi, he posts on here from time to time and is knowledgeable on the system.

As a general rule, have pregens ready for a one-shot so you have the option of an immediate start. While chargen isn't lengthy in Qwixalted, it may speed things up a lot if people have examples or something they can simply take and customise.

What sort of game are you intending (ie single-splat or mixed? How experienced?)?

Qwixalted has a built in Social Combat system which can't be worse than the Storyteller one.

I'm going to pregen from beforehand q's on their haracters, mixed solaroid splat, and have them start as heroic mortals and exalt half way through the session.

They don't know they're playing exalted. The most they'll know is that they are in a Jungle nation, trading far up the banks. Lorewise, i'm doing stuff like renaming DBs to People of the Dragon, and describing them as essentially like Benders off A:TLA. Mentioning on the fringes of a large empire, references to animism of the Gods, renaming the Immaculate order, which some players will be part of

For which Solaroid splat I was thinking of the following:
1) They try to do something awesome, roll a GM die behind the screen - on a 7-10 they exalt.
2) On Heroic mortal death, take the player aside and roleplay an encounter with the Neverborn - Yes, they become an abyssal, No they get a chance to heroically reject the Neverborn, fight their way back to life, and exalt as a Solar.
3) Any remaining people who are left give them a choice to exalt as Infernals, reject in the subsequent fight exalts as Solars/Abyssal but will need to rewrite the encounter somehow to avoid players thinking "Deal with the Devil, this is going to suck!" and everyone rejecting it - probably again take players away and tell them they've been chosen to help fix the world by restoring the creators of it to their rightful place...

I'll probally create my own Exalted character sheet, and hand out the essence charms etc, as a second page, or perhaps create charm cards.

Not sure what justification I'm going to have for 3-5 exalts exalting in the same time place - however I don't think my players have played before, so eh.

Qwixalted system uses d6, but I've thinking about converting it back to d10s, but that might be useful in obscuring its a White wolf game. I did have an idea about starting off with cheap die, and having other Solaroid coloured ones when they exalt...

[Exthalion]

Question: Where's that alternate-setting discussion that was going around this thread a bit before Shards? Specifically, the one where the Primordials made the different types of Exalts to oppose, counter, and negate the different Incarnae?

If I remember correctly, Infernals were their first go, just giving their own power to mortals, and Abyssals were... them being very non-subtle about their aims with the first few Solars, I think? Not sure.

That reminds me of a joke alternate setting I dreamed up to explain why Ligier v. Unconquered Sun would be a reasonable guess for the developer hints about the fight between Sol and [redacted] artwork.

The general gist was that Autochthon figured out how to free Sol of the geas in exchange for allowing his essence to replace Gaia's as preeminent in Creation. Instead of the Celestials, a huge army of DB and Alchemicals pushed the Titans out of the world and Yu-Shan. Wounded, in some cases lessened, the Yozi discovered the nature of what their brother had done and developed first the Infernal then the other Celestials. Which sort of happened in Gunstar as I recall.

[Kiero]

I'm going to pregen from beforehand q's on their haracters, mixed solaroid splat, and have them start as heroic mortals and exalt half way through the session.

They don't know they're playing exalted.

This could go very badly wrong indeed. Bait-and-switch rarely comes off the way it might seem to in a GM's imagination.

Not only that, you've got people fairly randomly Exalting into different Solaroid splats which might completely ruin their notion of their character. Granted it's only a one-shot so people are more likely to roll with that sort of thing, but it's still risky.

[Doran]

This could go very badly wrong indeed. Bait-and-switch rarely comes off the way it might seem to in a GM's imagination.

Not only that, you've got people fairly randomly Exalting into different Solaroid splats which might completely ruin their notion of their character. Granted it's only a one-shot so people are more likely to roll with that sort of thing, but it's still risky.

Fair point - how would you suggest changing it, while still capturing the feeling of awesome in Exalted?

[Qwertystop]

Fair point - how would you suggest changing it, while still capturing the feeling of awesome in Exalted?

Ask their character concepts ahead of time, and railroad them to the right situation.

[Kiero]

Fair point - how would you suggest changing it, while still capturing the feeling of awesome in Exalted?

To be honest, the only thing I would change is to remove the secrecy. Get the players to buy into it, and they can help you with their own character's ignorance and surprise at what's going on.

If you must, don't tell them how the Exaltations will happen, just that it will be something that might happen during the session. Or even make the random roll something they do (in the open) to add an element of chance that everyone can share in the fun of.

[Doran]

To be honest, the only thing I would change is to remove the secrecy. Get the players to buy into it, and they can help you with their own character's ignorance and surprise at what's going on.

If you must, don't tell them how the Exaltations will happen, just that it will be something that might happen during the session. Or even make the random roll something they do (in the open) to add an element of chance that everyone can share in the fun of.

One problem is that most of them don't know exalted anyway and I'd prefer to keep a sense of unknown about the world. Do you think I should just stick to vanilla Solars, or still have the death choice open?

Alternatively should I mention to the players that they will be coming more powerful during the game but that only?

[Lord Raziere]

Meh, I'd say take a risk with your game, just do whatever, I mean are these people speaking from what? are they speaking from real experience or just from fear or what they assume would happen?

Sometimes, you don't change anything, and just go forth and take a gamble. Whats there to lose? and I think becoming more powerful is like, not telling them anything at all cause most RPG's make their characters more powerful anyways so….

[Story Time]

One problem is that most of them don't know exalted anyway and I'd prefer to keep a sense of unknown about the world. Do you think I should just stick to vanilla Solars, or still have the death choice open?

Alternatively should I mention to the players that they will be coming more powerful during the game but that only?

...please forgive me for speaking out of turn again. I really don't belong in this thread...

But the chief difficulty that I see is ignorance. Exalted is a flat world with five elements, watched over by seven giant discs in the sky, stars above those, having no chemical reactions, and Player-Characters who are intended to...shepherd the mortals that they are raised out of.

I can appreciate keeping a sense of mystery for a group of players. As a GameMaster I can sympathize with that. But also I'd recommend to not be stingy with the details. The players may not like Exalted. I don't know that they will or won't, but if they don't it'll be much more easy to be plain to them about it early rather than for them to discover late what they don't like, if any-thing.

I sincerely recommend that you, personally, Doran, define for your-self what a Law-Giver is and what they do. That definition will define the game that you run because it will be the definition that the Players ultimately receive.

[Exthalion]

...please forgive me for speaking out of turn again. I really don't belong in this thread...

But the chief difficulty that I see is ignorance. Exalted is a flat world with five elements, watched over by seven giant discs in the sky, stars above those, having no chemical reactions, and Player-Characters who are intended to...shepherd the mortals that they are raised out of.

I can appreciate keeping a sense of mystery for a group of players. As a GameMaster I can sympathize with that. But also I'd recommend to not be stingy with the details. The players may not like Exalted. I don't know that they will or won't, but if they don't it'll be much more easy to be plain to them about it early rather than for them to discover late what they don't like, if any-thing.

I sincerely recommend that you, personally, Doran, define for your-self what a Law-Giver is and what they do. That definition will define the game that you run because it will be the definition that the Players ultimately receive.

Why would you say you shouldn't be here? I don't see anything in the first post saying, "Only these posters, and perhaps a few of my friends who have accounts just to support my points, can post here."

I agree though, that one of the big points of Exalted is, "At the day to day level things are more or less business as usual." The differences are to be emphasized instead of downplayed. Yes, you can start as a nearly immortal hero-king who can sway the minds of millions of people with a casual word. What are you going to do when the only people you are accountable to are yourself and your peers? What will you do when no one else is watching or able to do anything about your actions?

[Kyeudo]

Well, I'm trying to start up yet another game. This one's a beta test for the project I liked a page or so back.

[TimeWizard]

How exactly do you make a will power roll? is it just one dice for every unspent willpower you have?

[golentan]

Unless it calls out temporary willpower, use your full rating. Your Willpower doesn't normally change with the expenditure of points of will.

[Qwertystop]

Question:
Does SWLIHN have a Shintai in any book? There is none in the Manual for Infernals.

[Edge]

Question:
Does SWLIHN have a Shintai in any book? There is none in the Manual for Infernals.

Heuristic Logos Shintai, in the Broken-Winged Crane.