General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

[Dragnar]

As an analogy, Exalting an Alchemical is a holy process uniting fallible man with the infallible god machine that is the Principle of the Great maker. It combines the soul of a champion, the essence of a Titan, and the magical materials together in a process that is at once birth, coming of age, marriage, death. It can also be forced by a Solar with a sword who wants their own pet robots.

Sure! If by 'forced' you mean 'they provide the demiurges with MMs and step back while they do their jobs as usual'. And if by 'pet robots' you mean 'A batch of alchemicals who will instantly turn on you'. Even the demiurges don't know HOW they do what they do, and they can't exactly control the process. The resulting alchemicals would still be running off the past lives of an autocthonian, with all the loyalties that implies.

[Andreaz]

The resulting alchemicals would still be running off the past lives of an autocthonian, with all the loyalties that implies.

More importantly, they are both people and exalts (celestials at that), meaning you don't just walk in and tell them what to do.

[Rikandur Azebol]

I humbly encourage you to tell that to an First Age type of Solar. It might even listen a while ... who I am kidding.

[Exthalion]

Sure! If by 'forced' you mean 'they provide the demiurges with MMs and step back while they do their jobs as usual'. And if by 'pet robots' you mean 'A batch of alchemicals who will instantly turn on you'. Even the demiurges don't know HOW they do what they do, and they can't exactly control the process. The resulting alchemicals would still be running off the past lives of an autocthonian, with all the loyalties that implies.

E2 Alchemicals
E5 Solar

Solar: "Memory Reweaving Discipline."
Alchemicals: "What is thy bidding, our master?"

[Turalisj]

E2 Alchemicals
E5 Solar

Solar: "Memory Reweaving Discipline."
Alchemicals: "What is thy bidding, our master?"

Wait, what? You're comparing E5 solars with E2 alchemicals?

You don't get to do that. You don't get to claim the high ground by comparing obvious power gaps like essence. No. Bad.

[Lix Lorn]

What other kind of solar would be able to command demiurges to make alchemicals?

[Sanguine]

What other kind of solar would be able to command demiurges to make alchemicals?

Any of them.

[Qwertystop]

Wait, what? You're comparing E5 solars with E2 alchemicals?

You don't get to do that. You don't get to claim the high ground by comparing obvious power gaps like essence. No. Bad.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't comparing them power-wise, he was saying that Solars can intimidate or Charm their way into getting Alchemical slaves.

[Turalisj]

I'm pretty sure he wasn't comparing them power-wise, he was saying that Solars can intimidate or Charm their way into getting Alchemical slaves.

And comparing an E2 Alchemical to an E5 Solar is bad.

Not to mention that Solars are not able to create their own exalted. They have tried. They have failed.

[The_Snark]

And comparing an E2 Alchemical to an E5 Solar is bad.

He's not comparing Solars and Alchemicals in general. He's pointing out that a high-Essence Solar who persuades/tricks/coerces a group of demiurges into working for him will have a good chance of being able to brainwash the Essence 2 Alchemicals who emerge from the process. Yes, the circumstances are highly uneven, but it's a plausible scenario.

[Drascin]

He's not comparing Solars and Alchemicals in general. He's pointing out that a high-Essence Solar who persuades/tricks/coerces a group of demiurges into working for him will have a good chance of being able to brainwash the Essence 2 Alchemicals who emerge from the process. Yes, the circumstances are highly uneven, but it's a plausible scenario.

Of course, this solar is signing his own death warrant.

Plans NEVER go as planned in Creation. Just ask the Sidereals. And someone enslaving Exalts is outright asking for them to shake off his brainwashing at the most dramatically appropiate and most profoundly inopportune moment .

[Tavar]

Of course, this requires essentially exterminating an entire Alchemical city(minus the vat complex and demiurges), and getting Autochthon to go along with this plan as well. Nevermind the secret Ninja's who are put in place partially to prevent stuff like this.

[Lix Lorn]

Autochthon doesn't need to go along with it. He doesn't pay enough attention.

[Turalisj]

Autochthon doesn't need to go along with it. He doesn't pay enough attention.

You have destroyers and ministers. And Autobot's body will still screw you hard.

[Tavar]

Autochthon doesn't need to go along with it. He doesn't pay enough attention.

He's an integral part of making each individual Alchemical. There's some awareness there.

[Qwertystop]

Lots of Alchemical artifacts have Repair ratings. How does a Repair rating work?

Also, what would you say the best combat style would be for a Starmetal Alchemical psychologist (Modern shard)? This is, of course, taking a very... Exalted approach to psychology. Stuff like "How much can I bend reality before people can't take it anymore", "How much can I distort an everyday object before people stop describing it as 'Like an X, but with Y'", or "What if I just throw this guy up in the air and leave him there for a while". (On that note, is there any way to extend the duration of Rearing Crane Release beyond one action?)

[golentan]

Lots of Alchemical artifacts have Repair ratings. How does a Repair rating work?

Also, what would you say the best combat style would be for a Starmetal Alchemical psychologist (Modern shard)? This is, of course, taking a very... Exalted approach to psychology. Stuff like "How much can I bend reality before people can't take it anymore", "How much can I distort an everyday object before people stop describing it as 'Like an X, but with Y'", or "What if I just throw this guy up in the air and leave him there for a while". (On that note, is there any way to extend the duration of Rearing Crane Release beyond one action?)

Repair ratings are described in the first chapter of Wonders of the Lost Age. In short, things need regular maintenance, and have ability and resource minimums to maintain or repair them depending on repair rating.

Also, probably the best option for a starmetal psychologist would be a mind probe. Strap the patient down, stick 'em in the back of the neck, and rewrite their personality to order. Manipulation charms are mean that way.

[Lix Lorn]

...a lot of the time, I see repair ratings ignored. They're complicated, easy to get around if you try, and generally the artifacts aren't that good.
But you should check with your ST before assuming that.

[lord pringle]

That Malfeas U thing sounds pretty fun, but I'm only just figuring out Exalted. I'd love to join if you'll take a guy who's only real Exalted experience was a game at a convention.

[Qwertystop]

That Malfeas U thing sounds pretty fun, but I'm only just figuring out Exalted. I'd love to join if you'll take a guy who's only real Exalted experience was a game at a convention.

I have less experience then you and I'm trying to get in. My experience is limited to making sheets for... two games so far (Lix's DT one and a Heaven's Reach around when Shards first came out) and being rejected due to lack of space.

[Tavar]

Repair ratings are described in the first chapter of Wonders of the Lost Age. In short, things need regular maintenance, and have ability and resource minimums to maintain or repair them depending on repair rating.

Also, probably the best option for a starmetal psychologist would be a mind probe. Strap the patient down, stick 'em in the back of the neck, and rewrite their personality to order. Manipulation charms are mean that way.

Issue with Repair ratings is that their aren't firm or well written rules regarding them, so there are numbers without real meaning.

[lord pringle]

I have less experience then you and I'm trying to get in. My experience is limited to making sheets for... two games so far (Lix's DT one and a Heaven's Reach around when Shards first came out) and being rejected due to lack of space.

Oh. I guess I'll try to join as either a nerdy Daybreak Abyssal or an Eclipse Solar party-animal. Which to choose?

[Turalisj]

Sorry Pringle, I've got a full game at the moment >.<'

Someone else could try running a game like this though.....

[golentan]

Issue with Repair ratings is that their aren't firm or well written rules regarding them, so there are numbers without real meaning.

There are fairly firm rules for them. Whether they're well written is up for debate, but the rules are written.

[lord pringle]

Sorry Pringle, I've got a full game at the moment >.<'

Someone else could try running a game like this though.....

Oh well. I should probably understand the game in its entirety before I join a game anyway.

[Exthalion]

I was indeed pointing out that since fresh out of the Vats Alchemicals are E2 and needn't be equipped with any sort of mental defense charms a solar able to get them built in the first place could likely subvert them.

Also, mind controlling a city isn't required. Throw some social charms at a reaches expedition and suddenly the Tripartite wants to produce young impressionable alchemicals and send them on a mission to ask the advice of the "Saint of the Reaches". E5 Solar>E2 Alchemical is unfair, but a Solar trying to make Alchemical slaves wouldn't really care.

[Terazul]

There are fairly firm rules for them. Whether they're well written is up for debate, but the rules are written.

Yeah, as I recall there was a miscommunication in that one author thought all artifacts should have a Repair rating, signifying how difficult they were to fix if broken, and another thought that only those with maintenance needed it.

...Buuuut since artifacts can't really be broken, anything without a listed maintenance doesn't require it, even if it has a repair rating. Which subsequently means they can be safely ignored.

It's wacky.

[HerrTenko]

Oh well. I should probably understand the game in its entirety before I join a game anyway.

Ahahaha!
Wait, you serious?

Or, more seriously : the only concepts you have to master before you enter a game of Exalted as a player, if you ask me, are Rules Basics and Why Its No Use Learning More Than Rules Basics.

First part you probably already know. Second part is as follows : most of the subsidiary systems and complicated secondary rules are ignored and it's better that way. I mean look at this page and Repair Rating. At least two people here (make that Three with me) don't give a hoot about repair rating most of the time.

Please do not postpone your first game until you've been able to understand the whole ruleset, because bro, you ain't gonna play anytime soon!

Also, your avatar is extremely cool.

[Lord Raziere]

Oh well. I should probably understand the game in its entirety before I join a game anyway.

No, thats the path of madness. Thats what I tried to do.

What it got me, was a lot of flack from other Exalted fans, confusion about what is or isn't canon, and me blocking myself off from any discussion involving Solars or Abyssals, while making me convinced that most of the Exalted fanbase is crazy.

just play the game! trying to understand it fully only leads Exalted fan-raging over how borked the rules are, or ultra-passionate discussions about the themes and/or canon of Exalted that no one but a just-as-passionate fan of Exalted can really understand, discussions that an easily turn into runaway arguments if you so much as mention something deemed discontinuity or out of theme for an Exalt type or Exalted in general. and while there are some commonalities, everyone has their own pet interpretation of the setting and the list of that which is Canon and Not Canon that you cannot predict.

Trust me, just play the game. if you don't, your missing everything.

[SiderealDreams]

No, thats the path of madness. Thats what I tried to do.

What it got me, was a lot of flack from other Exalted fans, confusion about what is or isn't canon, and me blocking myself off from any discussion involving Solars or Abyssals, while making me convinced that most of the Exalted fanbase is crazy.

just play the game! trying to understand it fully only leads Exalted fan-raging over how borked the rules are, or ultra-passionate discussions about the themes and/or canon of Exalted that no one but a just-as-passionate fan of Exalted can really understand, discussions that an easily turn into runaway arguments if you so much as mention something deemed discontinuity or out of theme for an Exalt type or Exalted in general. and while there are some commonalities, everyone has their own pet interpretation of the setting and the list of that which is Canon and Not Canon that you cannot predict.

Trust me, just play the game. if you don't, your missing everything.

Take his comments with giant grains of salt.