[Build Help] Crazy jumping + Spears + dragon riding

[DangerDanger]

I know various things I can throw together to do some of this stuff, but I'm hardly on top of the DnD world as most of you guys.

My over all goal is to be a dragoon.

-I want to have crazy jump based attacks (tiger claw discipline most likely)
-Probably have charger powers (mounted charging in the end?)
-I want to ride a dragon and not care

I'm thinking paladin of freedom 6 may be a thing (celestial drakkensteed wut?)
Some Druid or Wildshape Ranger to get some cheetah speed (jump), but then why not ubermount?

I want my character to be mostly jumping murder man w/ cool dragon not uber dragon w/ guy who happens to jump.

Any suggestions?

[Clistenes]

So, you are basically trying to roleplay Dragoon, of the 8-bit Theater webcomic? I approve.

[dspeyer]

What level? Getting a dragon tends to be tricky at low levels, lest the dragon overshadow the rider.

[dantiesilva]

Might I suggest a spitting drake from MM2 for early game? That way they do not overshadow you.

[Answerer]

Sounds like you're looking for Hood, since it's an attempt (fairly successful one, at that) to build a Final Fantasy Dragoon in 3.5. Then just take Draconic Leadership or something for the mount.

[Feralventas]

I would like to ask if this is pure 3.5, or PF, but compatibility is pretty easy, so...

4 levels of Rogue for two Rogue Talents to sub for two Ninja Tricks.
-Acrobatic Master: Spend 1 ki point for +20 to jump. This doesn't matter, as you don't have a ki-pool without dipping Monk or something like it, though your DM might consider spending a readied maneuver for it if they're up for it, pointing toward the Blood Storm Blade PrC spending Iron Heart maneuvers for its features. However, the real reason for taking it is to qualify for....
-High Jumper: Your vertical jump DC's are cut in half, raising 2 per 1foot. Combined with Leaping Dragon Stance, you can jump 10+your jump check result horizontally, or 10+1/2 your jump check result vertically. With proper magic-item use, you can pull off all kinds of stunts with this.

Using the Scout Archetype for the rogue also allows you to add sneak attack on a charge attack.

Anyhow, with Martial Adept classes, your non MA class levels add to your initiator level at 1/2 rate, so you could go 4 levels in this and then be at 3rd initiator level just in time to pick up Leaping Dragon Stance as soon as you have a slot to do so.


Now that that's out of the way, Dragon Cohort Feat out of Draconomicon. Requires 9th level, but gets you a draconic cohort. You can potentially do this with Regular Leadership at 6th, but the DCfeat lets you treat their ECL as 3 lower for the purpose of your leadership score and allowed cohort levels.

If you don't mind waiting until level 6 or 9 anyway. Paladin wouldn't get their's until 5th, and a Familliar would need to be much meeker even with Improved Familliar. Druid would need to be about that level to get a small dragon, let alone a medium or large one to carry you.

[DangerDanger]

What level? Getting a dragon tends to be tricky at low levels, lest the dragon overshadow the rider.

I don't care so much about when I get to have a dragon mount, as long as I get one eventually. The Dragon Cohort or Drakkensteed ACF sound tasty, whenever that comes in. I'm mostly seeking build ideas and a variety of ways to obtain the dragon.

Sounds like you're looking for Hood, since it's an attempt (fairly successful one, at that) to build a Final Fantasy Dragoon in 3.5. Then just take Draconic Leadership or something for the mount.

The hood has some nice resources on feats and equipment, but I don't like a lot of their builds. I get that you can "justify" being a half orc and jump from rogue to cleric to psychic warrior to barbarian to warblade BUT HOLEY DIP. A lot of it seems way too finesse to be practical.


@Feralventas

I've never played PF before, but those sounds like some nice free abilities if I ever were to.
I'm looking for a 3.5 build though :U

[Vaz]

Blade Dancer from Oriental Advendtures has a fairly insane 1 Level Dip boost to jump;

Requring Jump+tumble 12, that is +14 off the bat. +10 from Acrobatics, and +12 from the +30ft Speed bonus. Throw in the ability to always take 10, and no limit to max height, and you're cooking with gas. Throw in Leap of the Heavens and Run Feat from PHB2, and you are at +50 jump from standing with no boost and +55 from a Running Jump.

Of course that does require a fairly intensive build towards; along with dreaded dodge, and the ability to cast spells but with no advancement to casting.

Ninja Spy 3, same book gets similar (no speed boosts), but gets Sneak Attack, Improved Evasion, Poison Use, Spiked Chain EWP for free; at 4th level Hide in Plain Sight when near to Shadows.

[Answerer]

The hood has some nice resources on feats and equipment, but I don't like a lot of their builds. I get that you can "justify" being a half orc and jump from rogue to cleric to psychic warrior to barbarian to warblade BUT HOLEY DIP. A lot of it seems way too finesse to be practical.

Say it with me now: Classes are meta-game concepts. Unless you're playing in a goofy OotS-like campaign where characters are literally aware of the game mechanics, a character doesn't know he's a Barbarian/Rogue/Cleric/Psychic Warrior, he knows he is a Dragoon. Or whatever.

I mean, that combination isn't even hard: Barbarian/Rogue/Psychic Warrior is just someone who knows how to hurt people, and Cleric just means he's devout about it.

Don't disdain multiclassing. Make no mistake: 3.5 is a terrible system, with very few things going for it. In fact, I'd argue that the only things it has going for it are A. an absolutely enormous amount of material, and B. a multiclassing system flexible enough to allow you to use a lot of it at once. If you don't have that, play another system; it's almost certain to be better.

[Waddacku]

Not so much a general rule about multiclassing, but in the Hood case in particular it is mechanically fairly messy, ending up with tons of smatterings of abilities, generally low-end. It's hardly elegant or pretty. I find that to be a fair concern.

It's got tons of ideas to loot, of course.

[dspeyer]

My first thought is to play a grig, in which case you can take Draconic Cohort at level 9 and recruit a thematically appropriate Faerie Dragon (Dragonomicon) immediately. That Agile Athlete and you've got +12 to jump from race alone.

Dexterity-based fighters don't do well with spears, though, and the LA isn't great for a ToB character. So probably not a great idea. Seemed worth mentioning.

[DangerDanger]

Not so much a general rule about multiclassing, but in the Hood case in particular it is mechanically fairly messy, ending up with tons of smatterings of abilities, generally low-end. It's hardly elegant or pretty. I find that to be a fair concern.

It's got tons of ideas to loot, of course.

^This

I'm all for multiclassing, but they do it to the point where you're just like, ok kid, have at it, whatever man.

[DangerDanger]

Blade Dancer from Oriental Advendtures has a fairly insane 1 Level Dip boost to jump;

Requring Jump+tumble 12, that is +14 off the bat. +10 from Acrobatics, and +12 from the +30ft Speed bonus. Throw in the ability to always take 10, and no limit to max height, and you're cooking with gas. Throw in Leap of the Heavens and Run Feat from PHB2, and you are at +50 jump from standing with no boost and +55 from a Running Jump.

Of course that does require a fairly intensive build towards; along with dreaded dodge, and the ability to cast spells but with no advancement to casting.

Ninja Spy 3, same book gets similar (no speed boosts), but gets Sneak Attack, Improved Evasion, Poison Use, Spiked Chain EWP for free; at 4th level Hide in Plain Sight when near to Shadows.

Ninja Spy doesn't fit too well thematically, but that battle dancer is something that is all about this concept

Those feat prerequisites arn't all too painful either. Mobility is often waived as an armor enhancement and spring attack is pretty useful, especially when doing ToB stuff. As far as dodge goes, I could go kobold fighter (spears for days) or just suck it up; it's not that bad.

Do you think advancing in the class would be worth it?

[Gullara]

I don't know if you're looking for any particular race, but if you wanted to be a thri-kreen they have a +30 racial bonus to Jump. On the other hand, it would cost you 1 LA and 2 Monstrous Humanoid HD.

But you also have 4 arms. I recall there are rules somewhere to modify weapons to do more damage when they're wielded with more than a normal number of arms. I think it's in Savage Species?

[Namfuak]

I don't know if you're looking for any particular race, but if you wanted to be a thri-kreen they have a +30 racial bonus to Jump. On the other hand, it would cost you 1 LA and 2 Monstrous Humanoid HD.

But you also have 4 arms. I recall there are rules somewhere to modify weapons to do more damage when they're wielded with more than a normal number of arms. I think it's in Savage Species?

Thri-Kreen have an LA of +2. Thri-Kreen also get some bonus power points, so you can take psionic feats and gain a psionic focus. I am not particularly familiar with psionics, but I'm sure there's some feat out there that gives you a + to jumping by expending psionic focus.

[Answerer]

Not so much a general rule about multiclassing, but in the Hood case in particular it is mechanically fairly messy, ending up with tons of smatterings of abilities, generally low-end. It's hardly elegant or pretty. I find that to be a fair concern.

It's got tons of ideas to loot, of course.

^This

I'm all for multiclassing, but they do it to the point where you're just like, ok kid, have at it, whatever man.

You're inventing problems where there are none. Just ignore the irrelevant and "low-end" abilities.

[DangerDanger]

As of right now I'm thinking:
Human Warblade 16/Fighter 2/Cleric 1/Blade Dancer 1 (obviously positioned in a more elegant fashion for maneuvers, feats, skill points, and early entry Blade Dancer)

This nets me 2 fighter feats, 8 free feats, 2 domain/devotion feats, and 3 warblade feats.

Looking at Power Attack, Leap Attack, Battle Jump, Spring Attack, Dodge, Leap of the Heavens, Run, and Dragon Corhort. What do with the extra 5 (7)?
Improved initiative x4/5 is 100% possible lol

Alternatives:
I could go Kobold granting me a free dodge and ALL THE SPEARS at lvl 1 fighter
I could drop a fighter level for Barbarian and get the mounted rage ability later
I could drop a fighter level for more Warblade (trading a fighter feat for a warblade feat and another manuver)
I could drop fighter levels for martial rogue to get mad skills and evasion

Thoughts?

[Gavinfoxx]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...php?topic=2462

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...php?topic=7200

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=25

[Waddacku]

spring attack is pretty useful, especially when doing ToB stuff.

Not seeing it, Spring Attack precludes strikes.

[Gullara]

Thri-Kreen have an LA of +2. Thri-Kreen also get some bonus power points, so you can take psionic feats and gain a psionic focus. I am not particularly familiar with psionics, but I'm sure there's some feat out there that gives you a + to jumping by expending psionic focus.

I was referring to the non-psionic version of thri-kreen, which have 1 LA rather than 2 in exchange for losing the psionic aspects of the race. I believe this version is in Savage Species, though it becomes a lot easier to determine what you get by consulting the Expanded Psionic Handbook as well. It's well worth using the 1 LA version, even if you intend to use psionics, because, you know, LA is terrible.

[Vaz]

@Namfuak; the Psionic Jump is 10+(5 per 2 additional PP); and I believe it is competence bonus IIRC.

In regards to classes; Is Fighter 2 for the Bonus Feats? If so, what Bonus Feats would they be? Would you get a better effect from shipping in a Pounce from Spirit Lion totem Barbarian 1? You can take a Wolf Totem Barbarian ACF or Horse Totem ACF at Barb 2 for Improved Trip or Run accordingly.

Alternatively; Travel Domain lets you move as a swift action a couple of times a day; allows you to Full Attack afterwards.

If you are going Warblade, I wouldn't bother with Improved Initiative unless you are desperate for a Prestige Class prerequisite; theres a Stance for +20 Initiative straight off.

In regards to Blade Dancer; I don't think it is worth overly going into. I'd take more Rogue for better Sneak Attack or Scout for Skirmish, while other classes ramp up his Move speed. Monk can be good for this, but it takes a while to get into and has very few actual abilities that are overly useful; but slow fall can be neat.

[Coidzor]

^This

I'm all for multiclassing, but they do it to the point where you're just like, ok kid, have at it, whatever man.

Well, yeah, the system exists to be used to have fun, not for DMs to have power trips or patronize their players by calling them kid when they're the same age or older.

[TuggyNE]

Well, yeah, the system exists to be used to have fun, not for DMs to have power trips or patronize their players by calling them kid when they're the same age or older.

What kind of crazy game would it be if the DM can't patronize everyone? Players would get into all kinds of mischief. They might even have their own ideas on where the story should go!

[Endarire]

As author of the Hood guide, I was further proven right that classes are meta-game concepts. Don't think too hard about names: Just take classes that synergize well. It's the class abilities you're after.

If you want to go single-class as a Hood, you can. If you want to dip more times than most people can count, you can. It's the concept that matters most, and so long as the GM approves the mechanics, the method won't matter so much.

[DangerDanger]

Not seeing it, Spring Attack precludes strikes.

Most boosts, mongoose stuff, a lot actually. Any maneuver that doesn't require a standard action. I'll probably be doing travel devotion/pounce stuff anyways, so it's pretty whatever + moving.

@Namfuak; the Psionic Jump is 10+(5 per 2 additional PP); and I believe it is competence bonus IIRC.

In regards to classes; Is Fighter 2 for the Bonus Feats? If so, what Bonus Feats would they be? Would you get a better effect from shipping in a Pounce from Spirit Lion totem Barbarian 1? You can take a Wolf Totem Barbarian ACF or Horse Totem ACF at Barb 2 for Improved Trip or Run accordingly.

Alternatively; Travel Domain lets you move as a swift action a couple of times a day; allows you to Full Attack afterwards.

If you are going Warblade, I wouldn't bother with Improved Initiative unless you are desperate for a Prestige Class prerequisite; theres a Stance for +20 Initiative straight off.

The improved initiative was a joke. Mostly feats for feats, I wouldn't say I "need" them. Barbarian is pretty tasty though.

As author of the Hood guide, I was further proven right that classes are meta-game concepts. Don't think too hard about names: Just take classes that synergize well. It's the class abilities you're after.

If you want to go single-class as a Hood, you can. If you want to dip more times than most people can count, you can. It's the concept that matters most, and so long as the GM approves the mechanics, the method won't matter so much.

No offence intended towards you or your hoods; crazy mad concept dipping just isn't my style. Your guides did provide pretty insightful information on feats and items, which definitely helps my concept despite the limitations.