She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

[QuidEst]

Again: don't really care about healing at that level. The nastiest stuff you'll meet doesn't have anything to do with hit points. If you've gone to the trouble to build a designer demiplane and kept it stocked with a magical healing pool, and carry it around with you everywhere, I think you kind of deserve to be able to heal with it!

I agree on the hitpoints, certainly! 2d8 is pocket change. (Literally, since that's less than 30gp worth of wand casting gets you.) Being able to take off non-permanent negative levels and ability damage is still really nice, but not unbalanced. Pocket demi-plane with free healing is just what I'd do as a 15th level Geoccultist.

Few questions and suggestions…
• When a feature refreshes, how does the cost occur? Providing the 100 ebbs to replenish the Healing Springs is trivial if I can provide that over the course of the day, but extremely difficult if I have to pay it as a lump sum.

• Does the Nymph Pool's water refresh automatically?

A nymph pool costs only 100 lb, but the water in it needs to be replaced daily at a cost of 50 lb per day to maintain its purity.

• Suggestion- Detonating sunmetal leaves an area unable to grow things. Interaction with geoccult poles isn't specified, but I think it would be cool if it disrupted their connection with the earth, preventing them from being placed in the area.

[Kellus]

• When a feature refreshes, how does the cost occur? Providing the 100 ebbs to replenish the Healing Springs is trivial if I can provide that over the course of the day, but extremely difficult if I have to pay it as a lump sum.

Upkeep happens as lump sums, but you don't have to pay for every feature together in the same installment. So yeah, you need 100 ebbs to replenish your Healing Springs. On the other hand, yay, no more negative levels ever!

Does the Nymph Pool's water refresh automatically?

Just like any feature, it drains metal (or ebbs) automagically whenever it needs to be replenished.

Suggestion- Detonating sunmetal leaves an area unable to grow things. Interaction with geoccult poles isn't specified, but I think it would be cool if it disrupted their connection with the earth, preventing them from being placed in the area.

Very cool idea! I love the cross-discipline interaction, I'll add something to that effect to sunmetal's writeup!

Re-reading lightning pools, I'm a little confused as to how they work. So lets say I take the water from the pool (after it's been charged), and split it up into its max amount of possible divisions:100. Do each of these hold their part of the charge (i.e., each 1/100th of the pool can store 1 ebb), or does the "communal pool" it refers to keep existing after seperation, meaning you can have 50 seperate set-ups gathering electricity ebbs, powering 50 entirely sperate mechanisms. If the latter, than that would mean it's actually to your advantage to split it up into as many different parts as you can. Also, relating all these effects that occur regardless of distance (latter interpretation of lightning pool, whispereeds), do they still occur on different planes (like say having some iceIns on the Fire, powering my really wierd attempt to farm brassbrush and ghostgrass on the Ethereal via lightning pool shenanigans).

Each part of the pool shares a communal pool, so you can basically use them like bits of orichalcum that are all draining and adding to the same reservoir of puissance instead of just each having their own. So you could take some of the lightning water and hook it up to a superphlogiston cycle to obtain massive amounts of energy, which can then be accessed through a different sample of lightning water that came from the same pool.

[QuidEst]

Upkeep happens as lump sums, but you don't have to pay for every feature together in the same installment. So yeah, you need 100 ebbs to replenish your Healing Springs. On the other hand, yay, no more negative levels ever!

I might have missed this, but specifying how the ebbs/metal have to be supplied for both features and poles would be helpful, since it makes a big difference. Otherwise, I would assume the "ebb at a time" cost, which is easy.

Very cool idea! I love the cross-discipline interaction, I'll add something to that effect to sunmetal's writeup!

Glad you like it! It seemed like it would either be that, or have one of the scarier parts of sunmetal be trivialized by plopping down a pole so cute squirrels and bunnies can move in.

Each part of the pool shares a communal pool, so you can basically use them like bits of orichalcum that are all draining and adding to the same reservoir of puissance instead of just each having their own. So you could take some of the lightning water and hook it up to a superphlogiston cycle to obtain massive amounts of energy, which can then be accessed through a different sample of lightning water that came from the same pool.

Best way to pay for all those fancy features lying around!

[Qwertystop]

Seems to me that, at least in the case of Nymph's Pools and Healing Springs (which have the cost for the purpose of keeping the water fresh) should be able to take the cost over time, seeing as the water doesn't all go bad all at once (presumably).

[QuidEst]

Seems to me that, at least in the case of Nymph's Pools and Healing Springs (which have the cost for the purpose of keeping the water fresh) should be able to take the cost over time, seeing as the water doesn't all go bad all at once (presumably).

Well, it's also sort of a balance thing. 100 ebbs over a day is more or less the same as "free". Those same 100 ebbs all at once is an actual price. For the Nymph's Pool, five ebbs in one go (or actually providing 50 lbs. of water, caster level 3 Create Water) isn't hard either way.

[Qwertystop]

Well, it's also sort of a balance thing. 100 ebbs over a day is more or less the same as "free". Those same 100 ebbs all at once is an actual price. For the Nymph's Pool, five ebbs in one go (or actually providing 50 lbs. of water, caster level 3 Create Water) isn't hard either way.

Yeah. I know it's a balance thing, just saying it doesn't work out with the fluff. And in something that's at least partially based on scientificness, that's a Bad Thing.

[Morcleon]

Well, it's also sort of a balance thing. 100 ebbs over a day is more or less the same as "free". Those same 100 ebbs all at once is an actual price. For the Nymph's Pool, five ebbs in one go (or actually providing 50 lbs. of water, caster level 3 Create Water) isn't hard either way.

With a few blocks of phlogiston and a few iceIns, 100 ebbs comes really easily. Just sayin'....

[Arcanist]

I might have missed you answering this, but does Push stay coherent when traveling through a YGGD Semi-space?

For example. If I use a Ballistic Engine to launch a bullet through a connected Semi-space will it continue at it's same speed through the portal?

I'm trying to develop a Mass Relay or a method for traveling to other planets without the hassle of using a Spelljamming Vessel (Or perhaps using a Spelljamming Vessel with an Othogonal engine to place a bound connected semi-space on the planet).

Will the 400-Principles for ELDK allow an engine to move at (or perhaps surpass) the speed of light? If so, would it be associated with the merging of the two Disciplines Yggdratecture and Eldrikinetics? Or perhaps Alchemetry to influence the mass of the object being "launched"?

[Necroticplague]

Seems to me that, at least in the case of Nymph's Pools and Healing Springs (which have the cost for the purpose of keeping the water fresh) should be able to take the cost over time, seeing as the water doesn't all go bad all at once (presumably).

It doesn't go bad all at once, but you need to replace it all at once. Or, you know, its an abstraction that makes things easier, and helps to establish the sense that gramarie still has some unknown factors to it (like how the vast majority of things that manipulate matter only modify solids, and a whole lot only a specific subset of solids (seriously "solid planetary metal no more than 8 ft volume is a ridiculously specific set of restriction)).

Although, now that I think about it, using brassbrush to its full potential can produce horrifying results, since it seems that BIOY effects could also work, in addition to what's listed. Use some ALCH to turn the copper into iron. Turn iron into ploghistan. Make said phogistan a biollurgical chassis, then use artifical reckoning to give it instinct that make it hilariously easy to train/automatically subservient. Make sure to not give them eve the slightest hint of self-preservation. Use Preternatural Fluids to decrease the melting point of the phlogiston to below that of the temperature it gives off. Since this requires several different specialist principles at work, you'd have to pay someone to help you. But if you can't think of some way to recoup your profits with an infinite amount suicidally loyal creatures made out of molten fire, you clearly aren't trying. Especially if you re-plant them outside the geoculltic buble, so you don't need to babyst them too much (decreased maintenance, either in metals or in time and money setting up an ebb-generation system to maintain them). Like say, selling them as living trebuchet rounds/suicide rushers, seige-breakers, or highly intimidating guard animals. Heck, you could even pull a redcloak:

"Flaming pitch from the catapults? Isn't that a little cliched?"
"What? No, pitch doesn't burn long enough nor cause enough collateral damage."
"Then what the heck are you launching at them?"
"It's complicated, but they're liquid, constantly burning, and suicidally loyal. We have a deal with a guy who gives us a fresh shipment every week."

[QuidEst]

With a few blocks of phlogiston and a few iceIns, 100 ebbs comes really easily. Just sayin'....

You're already in Geoccultism, so you can make Firesand.

One tablespoon of firesand when mixed with sufficient water will produce flame even hotter than phlogiston (2000 degrees Centigrade) for five minutes before burning out. It also produces 50 cubic feet of superheated dry steam at 500 degrees Centigrade from this reaction. Firesand costs 250 lb for a single 5ft. patch.

Stick that in a Blue/Red/Yellow filter box. Generate water inside once per day (Heuristics with silverOut casting first-level Create Water), and that generates your power. It runs for five minutes, so it can pay for itself easily. You'll need two or three iceIns to get the power needed, which means two or three patches of Firesand. If you want this anywhere but a desert, you'll need Geoc 323 to mix the two and Geoc 374. Still, now you only need the iceIn from somebody else.

I like the image of a Firesand foundry, where Firesand is burned to fuel more Firesand production…

As mentioned before, crystalIn plus a bunch of Whisperreeds will let you generate the ebbs you need easily with only the principles you pick up. Place a Whisperreed at each of several waterfalls, and it's all the sonic energy you need. I trust it more than Phlogiston or Firesand since it can't burn your biome down if something goes wrong.

[Necroticplague]

You're already in Geoccultism, so you can make Firesand.


Stick that in a Blue/Red/Yellow filter box. Generate water inside once per day (Heuristics with silverOut casting first-level Create Water), and that generates your power. It runs for five minutes, so it can pay for itself easily. You'll need two or three iceIns to get the power needed, which means two or three patches of Firesand. If you want this anywhere but a desert, you'll need Geoc 323 to mix the two and Geoc 374. Still, now you only need the iceIn from somebody else.

I like the image of a Firesand foundry, where Firesand is burned to fuel more Firesand production…

As mentioned before, crystalIn plus a bunch of Whisperreeds will let you generate the ebbs you need easily with only the principles you pick up. Place a Whisperreed at each of several waterfalls, and it's all the sonic energy you need. I trust it more than Phlogiston or Firesand since it can't burn your biome down if something goes wrong.

...
Firesand is native to the desert biome. The two most famous features of deserts are 1:Having very little plant life and 2: having ground that's mostly sand. Sand doesn't burn. So you're not going to burn anything using firesand if you set it up in its native habitat (maybe aside from some random idiot who walks into the system and is then flash-fried). Now, if your mixing it into a swamp, forest, or grassland, yeah, expect things to go up in flames.

[QuidEst]

...
Firesand is native to the desert biome. The two most famous features of deserts are 1:Having very little plant life and 2: having ground that's mostly sand. Sand doesn't burn. So you're not going to burn anything using firesand if you set it up in its native habitat (maybe aside from some random idiot who walks into the system and is then flash-fried). Now, if your mixing it into a swamp, forest, or grassland, yeah, expect things to go up in flames.

Well, the point of it is mainly to fuel the nice things we can have in other biomes. Those can be mixed into your desert biome, but if you want a couple of them, you'll need the firesand in your non-desert biome.

By the way, I salute your mad science! I would not make them into liquid, though- I don't think you can have a liquid biostruct. If it's still alive, it may not be able to move. Solid suicidal soldiers are just fine, though. But really… just phlogiston? Why not make it sunmetal?

EDIT: Make them goldIn sunmetal biostructs with the Devil Eye graft and Grasping Mandibles. This allows them to create darkness around themselves that they can see through, grapple as a free action on a successful bite attack, and they deal one negative level per round while they grapple. If you wanted to be evil (duh), you create a bunch of Firesand-fueled Lightning Pools which you charge up. Your soldiers each grab a single pool of water which they store in a special sack. They can now detonate at will.

If only there were a way to make the brassbrush self-fueling. Being able to create a self-replicating plague of gold pole brassbrush to slowly plunge the world into a new ice-age would be fantastic. But it takes 500 lbs. of fuel to make 25 lbs. of brassbrush.

[Kellus]

Excellent comments about the consumption rate of poles! I hadn't considered fully how payment would occur when there are multiple features to be maintained every day and puissance needs to be supplied to them.

Here's my addition to the text of GEOC 101, I hope it's a satisfactory compromise!

If a feature requires upkeep, that is, additional expenditure of metal or puissance to maintain itself, this can happen over time. An appropriate amount of puissance must be supplied to the pole to pay for the feature's upkeep; the full amount of puissance must be provided in 10 rounds. That is, at least one-tenth of the puissance must be supplied once a round for ten rounds, or until the full cost is paid. Payment is due at either midnight or midday, as chosen when the pole is established. If on a Plane without such times, payment is still due every 24 hours, starting from the establishment of the pole.

If there are multiple features which need to be supplied puissance to maintain, they can be paid one after the other, with no round in-between when no puissance is being transferred. If there is such a break, all of the necessary metal for remaining features is drawn from the body of the pole. If there is ever not enough mass in the pole to keep it above the critical limit, the pole collapses.

For example. If I use a Ballistic Engine to launch a bullet through a connected Semi-space will it continue at it's same speed through the portal?

Yes! Now you're thinking with portals

Will the 400-Principles for ELDK allow an engine to move at (or perhaps surpass) the speed of light? If so, would it be associated with the merging of the two Disciplines Yggdratecture and Eldrikinetics? Or perhaps Alchemetry to influence the mass of the object being "launched"?

The speed of light will factor heavily into a 400-level theory that connects ELDK with YGGD, and another theory will connect ALCH with ARCD using our old friend Albert E = MC squared, letting you convert mass into energy and vice-versa. That's all I'm gonna say about them until I have the maths under control, the current drafts are far too exploitable

Appropriately enough I have a thermo-fluids final tomorrow, so I need to get to sleep, but tomorrow I hope to have up the arcanitect and perhaps the first 400-level theory!

[Necroticplague]

Well, the point of it is mainly to fuel the nice things we can have in other biomes. Those can be mixed into your desert biome, but if you want a couple of them, you'll need the firesand in your non-desert biome.

By the way, I salute your mad science! I would not make them into liquid, though- I don't think you can have a liquid biostruct. If it's still alive, it may not be able to move. Solid suicidal soldiers are just fine, though. But really… just phlogiston? Why not make it sunmetal?

EDIT: Make them goldIn sunmetal biostructs with the Devil Eye graft and Grasping Mandibles. This allows them to create darkness around themselves that they can see through, grapple as a free action on a successful bite attack, and they deal one negative level per round while they grapple. If you wanted to be evil (duh), you create a bunch of Firesand-fueled Lightning Pools which you charge up. Your soldiers each grab a single pool of water which they store in a special sack. They can now detonate at will.

If only there were a way to make the brassbrush self-fueling. Being able to create a self-replicating plague of gold pole brassbrush to slowly plunge the world into a new ice-age would be fantastic. But it takes 500 lbs. of fuel to make 25 lbs. of brassbrush.

Normally, you can't have a liquid biostructure because you can only turn solids into biostructure. However, it doesn't say that it has to stay solid afterwards. Plus, if we want to get real technical, they are technically "sprouted" solid, then their phlogistan effects kick in, and they then melt themselves. Being liquid is mostly just a bonus, of course, since it means that they can ooze under gates and through portcullises, murder holes, nets, snares and similar. Of course, this gives me an idea:Go in the opposite direction. Instead, increase the melting temperature, and then increase its heat capacity so that even though it's hotter than iron, it refuses to melt. Under their touch, weapons, gates, and locks (probably the door, too) are turned into a giant pile of slag. Of course, they'd need to be launched by seige launchers modified by ALCH101 so that they don't melt upon touching these abominations. Heck, even the ground would probably turn to sand as the walk over it, after burning out any vegetation. Takes a lot of time (a whole lot of ALCH101 prepping), but is totally worth it. Of course, speaking of the seige weapon, why can't those be made under a similar process? Make the troops/rounds and their launcher all in one go. Needs a hell of a lot of ebbs, but since they constantly emit massive amounts of heat, having them hold some lightning pool water and lug around an iceIn (set up insomewhere colder) will allow these huys to pay for themselves, ebbs-wise.

[Amechra]

Brassbush can only duplicate Copper or Iron for the purpose of what can be applied to them; it would be a lot more efficient to design a clump of Iron Brassbush that generates more desert, including more Brassbush, which basically lets you coat the world in Desert.

[QuidEst]

Brassbush can only duplicate Copper or Iron for the purpose of what can be applied to them; it would be a lot more efficient to design a clump of Iron Brassbush that generates more desert, including more Brassbush, which basically lets you coat the world in Desert.

Alchemetry lets you turn one metal into another, so you can grow Brassbrush as anything. Unfortunately, there's no way to provide enough fuel for it to make more Brassbrush.

However, it doesn't say that it has to stay solid afterwards.

Well, no. But that doesn't mean they still work when you melt them. If you melt a machine, it doesn't continue to function. People tend not to melt, preferring to ignite first, but if you could melt them, they would cease to function.

If you can get somebody who can swing the 85 DC check for sunmetal, I'd do that. If not, then phlogiston seems like a good choice.

Increasing heat capacity does not allow you to change temperature. It just means it's harder to cool off- but since it's already reheats if you try, I don't think that's relevant.

having them hold some lightning pool water and lug around an iceIn (set up insomewhere colder) will allow these huys to pay for themselves, ebbs-wise.

Unfortunately, I think it kills them…

Similarly, it also can only survive in a set temperature range (no more than a 100 degree Centigrade spread). You can set this range when you prepare the principle; ambient temperatures outside this range are treated as extreme weather for the biostructure.

You can either have them survive at phlogiston temperatures or the temperature of an iceIn, but if that ever switches, it'll start killing them at 1d6 lethal per minute, no save, plus fort saves against extra nonlethal damage. Which gives them a minute or two, unless the DM says they are "in contact with metal", which means 2d4 per round. But you can just grow some regular brassbrush phlogiston for them to use as fuel.

[Amechra]

Wait, Kellus, does Brassbush actually count as metal for the purpose of conversion? From how I read the entry on Brassbush, it just counts as Copper (or Iron) for the purposes of applying Copper/Iron stuff from Eldrikinetics and the like, not for the purpose of effects that generally affect metals.

EDIT: Also, Kellus and I are currently hashing out Platinum Arcanodynamics; it's quite rad.

And then... Platinum Geoccultism!

[Kellus]

Wait, Kellus, does Brassbush actually count as metal for the purpose of conversion? From how I read the entry on Brassbush, it just counts as Copper (or Iron) for the purposes of applying Copper/Iron stuff from Eldrikinetics and the like, not for the purpose of effects that generally affect metals.

This is the correct reading. It's not metal, it's plant matter that you can apply principles to as if it were copper. I can clarify this in the text!

[Arcanist]

This is the correct reading. It's not metal, it's plant matter that you can apply principles to as if it were copper. I can clarify this in the text!

Wondrous, Arcanodynamics just got all the more powerful and it really does resolve the Oxygen issue that I was having with creating a Spacefaring empire of Gramarie

EDIT: Wait, do magically created plants actually go through photosynthesis?

[ShadowFireLance]

Mister Kellus, That picture of Mewtwo is quite creepy...
Now, I thought I would suggest this:
Upper Krust, or the Creator of Immortals handbook, Has Sizes that might better fit your Colossal++(Insert many more +'s) Instead of just super Colossal sizes, Just a thought, Oh yeah, This is awesome, Now that I have actually read it.

[Draken]

Wondrous, Arcanodynamics just got all the more powerful and it really does resolve the Oxygen issue that I was having with creating a Spacefaring empire of Gramarie

EDIT: Wait, do magically created plants actually go through photosynthesis?

Make biostructure that breathes in carbon and exhales oxygen.

[ShadowFireLance]

Make biostructure that breathes in carbon and exhales oxygen.

Thanks a lot, Now I got a build running through about a Evolutionist that Is part of the Bio-Structure he creates to Produce Carbon in a experiment to make all the races breath it...Thanks draken...

[Arcanist]

Upper Krust, or the Creator of Immortals handbook, Has Sizes that might better fit your Colossal++(Insert many more +'s) Instead of just super Colossal sizes, Just a thought, Oh yeah, This is awesome, Now that I have actually read it.

EHHHHH~~~ I guess as long as you are snatching a rule from the Cursed Book of "Epic+" and not actually using the book shouldn't be too bad...

Make biostructure that breathes in carbon and exhales oxygen.

WELL! I heard about this, but the idea of a creature inhaling a poisoness gas with NO relation to Oxygen save for a few related components and exhaling pure Oxygen sounds a little... "Broken"? I mean, a Gramarist has all the money he'll ever need if he just makes a Biostructure that eats meat and craps Platinum so... yeah... Idk how to explain it

EDIT: Just noticed if I really want a creature with an unlimited breath weapon I can just have a creature in exhale Pure Oxygen and with a lighter in front of their mouth (Or better yet for a more "controlled" fire you can just have the creature spit Gasoline)

[ShadowFireLance]

EHHHHH~~~ I guess as long as you are snatching a rule from the Cursed Book of "Epic+" and not actually using the book shouldn't be too bad...

now, Why do I feel odd about that comment?

Oh yeah, I did that.

[Draken]

EHHHHH~~~ I guess as long as you are snatching a rule from the Cursed Book of "Epic+" and not actually using the book shouldn't be too bad...



WELL! I heard about this, but the idea of a creature inhaling a poisoness gas with NO relation to Oxygen save for a few related components and exhaling pure Oxygen sounds a little... "Broken"? I mean, a Gramarist has all the money he'll ever need if he just makes a Biostructure that eats meat and craps Platinum so... yeah... Idk how to explain it

That is... Uh... Not broken at all? And written right there in the basic principle. Also, biostructure doesn't eat.

And technically it is Carbon Dioxide into Oxigen, which changes very litte in the end, merely swaping around the more usual breathing mechanism.

------------

Also, I'm of the oppinion that past colossal size, you should just stop using size categories and simply make use of areas.

[Lateral]

Hey, I was wondering if you could consider maybe improving the rules for ballistic weaponry. As it is, the damage output is... kind of pitiful, which makes eldrikinetic guns all but worthless. Maybe something that scaled with momentum, rather than just with mass.

[Arcanist]

That is... Uh... Not broken at all? And written right there in the basic principle. Also, biostructure doesn't eat.

And technically it is Carbon Dioxide into Oxigen, which changes very litte in the end, merely swaping around the more usual breathing mechanism.

I thought you meant an animated Biostructure in the multipurpose that could perform physically demanding labor on board the Space Ship. Moot really since

Biostructure doesn't need to eat or drink, but it does breathe (usually through noisy, rasping lungs that gasp at the air), which means that it can convert gases from one form to another. Your options for this conversion are between any two of the following gases: oxygen, carbon dioxide, ozone, nitrogen dioxide, or water vapour.

which is perfect for oxygen creation.

[Draken]

Yes, it is why I suggested it in the first place. You said you were having problems finding easy sources of oxigen and I pointed that out.

----

As for the balistic engine, isn't there a way to have it increase the ammount of push it can generate? As it stands the thing can't even ever be used to shoot an arrow. It seens.

[QuidEst]

EDIT: Just noticed if I really want a creature with an unlimited breath weapon I can just have a creature in exhale Pure Oxygen and with a lighter in front of their mouth (Or better yet for a more "controlled" fire you can just have the creature spit Gasoline)

It does not exhale pure oxygen. It inhales air, and converts the carbon dioxide (or another gas from the list) to oxygen. It can't process diatomic nitrogen, which makes up most of the air, so you're still left with that. If it could exhale pure oxygen, I'd expect the breath weapon trick to simply ignite its lungs.

Hey, I was wondering if you could consider maybe improving the rules for ballistic weaponry. As it is, the damage output is... kind of pitiful, which makes eldrikinetic guns all but worthless. Maybe something that scaled with momentum, rather than just with mass.

In general, I've found Eldrikinetics to be a rather inefficient way to move things. I'd rather just grab YGGD 212 and make it fall with style. It takes about thirty of them to make a siege engine, so ten twenty-four hour days, but once you do that, you can just drop 200lb. rocks in to the bottom to launch them for 20d6 every round.

[Grimsage Matt]

It's a work in progress, but here's the first bit of the Troll Ebbshaper, a Troll that has a.... diffrent way of approching some parts of Gramire.