My Little Pony LII: 525.600 Ponies!

[Merellis]

And, is this getting heated? Intense, but heated always implied emotional upset to me. Ah well. I vote to belay further arguments until tomorrow (my time; so about fifteen hours, or so) in order to give anything else breathing room.

All in favor?

The Eyes Have It

[Thanqol]

Your arguing with the actual show here. Applejack says "we can't grow in this cold," not "we can't grow in winter." And we know from Heart Warming's Eve that they couldn't grow in the snows from the Windigos as well, so it is more than just winter. I'm using the show here, you using RL examples does nothing to support your argument that Equestria isn't like Earth.

Now whether the sun is what is heating the planet or not is up to you, but we have an order of operations for melting snow.
1. They move the snow to where it can safely melt, and cut the ice so it melts into small pieces.
2. They clear the sky and let the sun out.
3. A brilliant show of sunlight blazing down is shown, and the ice melted.

Moreover, we see the overcast sky in both episodes. And the clouds break and let sunshine through to melt the snow (once magically, once by the Pegasi moving the clouds).

Following from this, the Weather Factory in Cloudsdale manufactures snowflakes by hoof. They could just cut production, and if no Windigoes showed up with 'natural' snow then Equestria might well do just fine.

[Silverraptor]

OBJECTION!

Objection!

OBJECTION! (And where's a Miles Edgeworth ponymote when you need one...?)

Objection!

OBJECTION! Overruled

Objection!

[Tvtyrant]

Following from this, the Weather Factory in Cloudsdale manufactures snowflakes by hoof. They could just cut production, and if no Windigoes showed up with 'natural' snow then Equestria might well do just fine.

Fair enough. But this borders asking questions like why they actually institute a none-growing season in the first place

[Thanqol]

Fair enough. But this borders asking questions like why they actually institute a none-growing season in the first place

That's a really interesting question! And the type of question we should be asking!

[SiuiS]

Quotes saved for later quibbling.

[One Tin Soldier]

Fair enough. But this borders asking questions like why they actually institute a none-growing season in the first place

Well, the song mentions holidays and relaxation, though that is a rather weak explanation. Maybe the plants need that "down time" in order to grow properly? It seems rather contrived no matter how you look at it.

[Thanqol]

Well, the song mentions holidays and relaxation, though that is a rather weak explanation. Maybe the plants need that "down time" in order to grow properly? It seems rather contrived no matter how you look at it.

Iron Hoof Celestia needs to place artificial limits on the food supply and the expansion of the earth pony underclass, lest they grow sufficiently in numbers to threaten her eternal reign.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Fair enough. But this borders asking questions like why they actually institute a none-growing season in the first place

Concerns over soil depletion, applications in long term stabilization of climate, allowances for (pre-pony) natural cycles in the animals and plants... and of course because winter is fun.

[maximus25]

Maybe it's in memorial of the tough times they went through during the windigo blizzard thing.

'Never forget past mistakes lest ye repeat them' and all that.


Could be that pegasi just really like singing and WWU is the day when it's socially acceptable to sing to your hearts content.

[Callos_DeTerran]

That's a really interesting question! And the type of question we should be asking!

There's already an answer. By having a season where you can't grow, you give the soil time to build up nutrients once more from various sources, or you rotate out the crops that can't grow in the cold for the ones that can that have the side-effect of the above.

...Or something like that, the specifics elude me, I'm not a farmer. But I've heard a reason before.

Also, winter could actually be a season long memorial to the time of the Windigos.

[Merellis]

Fair enough. But this borders asking questions like why they actually institute a none-growing season in the first place

Chancellor Puddinghead, in a rare flash of brilliance, suggested to Princess Platinum and Commander Hurricane that there should be a yearly reminder of what had nearly been caused a second time with the Windigo's.

So they set their three best ponies, Smart Cookie, Private Pansy, and Clover the Clever to the job. While the obvious suggestion of making the day they defeated the Windigo's and discovered the Fire of Friendship into a holiday was a good one, they felt it wasn't enough.

So they planned, researched, and put together a proposal.

Create the circumstances of the harsh winter every year, have the Pegasi churn up the snow and winds, have the Unicorns organize and prepare buildings for all the ponies to hide from the cold grip, and have the Earth Ponies farm and save food to feed Equestria for the time needed.

The idea turned out to be a popular one for Hurricane and Platinum, but Puddinghead had one suggestion to make.

"Make it the best time ever! Have the snow and wind, have the shortage of food, but make sure everyone can enjoy the winter for as long as it lasts!"

Stunned into silence, the other five could only nod as ideas built in their heads, scribbling and drawing out the plans as fast as they could, glad to have managed to create a time for all ponies to remember why they need to work together.

This was never mentioned in the play, nor was it ever spread amongst the ponies as to why this had to happen. All the Equestrians knew, was that for a few short months there was snow, cold air, and a lot of hot meals.

Though the reasoning was lost in time, the tradition continues today.

[Thanqol]

There's already an answer. By having a season where you can't grow, you give the soil time to build up nutrients once more from various sources, or you rotate out the crops that can't grow in the cold for the ones that can.

Why do you need to cover the land with snow and ice, at massive cost of time and infrastructure, to enforce this non-growing season? Plenty of countries don't have annual snowfalls and have perfectly fine growing seasons.

Create the circumstances of the harsh winter every year, have the Pegasi churn up the snow and winds, have the Unicorns organize and prepare buildings for all the ponies to hide from the cold grip, and have the Earth Ponies farm and save food to feed Equestria for the time needed.

why did anypony think this was a good idea.

[Merellis]

why did anypony think this was a good idea.

SImply put, to avoid getting more Windigo's again, and to remind all of Equestria that they need each other prosper. The disharmony and hatred between the three races caused them to move to a new country and they brought their own destruction with them. A subtle reminder in the shape of a season where they needed to stock food, live in warm houses, and depend more on the weather team seemed easier to push then a "Don't screw it up, or ya'll will freeze to death again."

Edit: Heading to bed anyway. Night all.

[Thanqol]

Sadly, Mr. Andrews has made it so:
Talk Like Zecora Day is a go.

SImply put, to avoid getting more Windigo's again, and to remind all of Equestria that they need each other prosper. The disharmony and hatred between the three races caused them to move to a new country and they brought their own destruction with them. A subtle reminder in the shape of a season where they needed to stock food, live in warm houses, and depend more on the weather team seemed easier to push then a "Don't screw it up, or ya'll will freeze to death again."

A quarter of the year under the ice
Seems to be a touch too heavy a price.

[Merellis]

Sadly, Mr. Andrews has made it so:
Talk Like Zecora Day is a go.



A quarter of the year under the ice
Seems to be a touch too heavy a price.

A price too heavy you may say
But Windigo's can take it all away.
A quarter, a token, a fourth
Better then forever as the north.

History repeats, this much should be true
Ponies rebel against things told to you
The price to be paid is a reminder alone
Rather than to freeze and be skin and bone.

Listen well and heed this warning
So that you may avoid a life of mourning
Give your friends and enemies love
So that you may forestall the monsters above.

[Thanqol]

A price too heavy you may say
But Windigo's can take it all away.
A quarter, a token, a fourth
Better then forever as the north.

History repeats, this much should be true
Ponies rebel against things told to you
The price to be paid is a reminder alone
Rather than to freeze and be skin and bone.

Listen well and heed this warning
So that you may avoid a life of mourning
Give your friends and enemies love
So that you may forestall the monsters above.

Fshaw! It was the pride of those long past
That forces us against this wintery blast!
They suffered greatly, yes it is true,
But they chose to inflict their pain on me and on you!

Their names were not so great to chain all of time
Nor their warning so dire as to block the sunshine
After all this time we can see the irony has come
The monsters they feared are the monsters they have become!

[SiuiS]

You guys fail at democracy. To the surprise of no pony whatsoever.

The gist is, if there is a system which works to explain everything with minimal effort/change, it is a more elegant/superior solution to one which requires more change or effort.

'the seasons and the time of day are separate states, not merely lackings of each other" covers these issues without abandoning understanding wholesale. It's covered every question presented, so far, without effort or bending. It also hasn't really been challenged itself so much. Which is odd, but I assume no one really cares enough about it to argue ;)

All right, let's settle this. Applebucking style.

Can do.

OBSERVATION: Applebucking causes apples to fall from trees while the leaves stay fixed where they are.

Ripe apples are designed by nature to fall. Well, nature and tree breeding. And you're not going to tell me an apple half as big as a pony's head is a natural thing and not the result of apple breeding.

The shockwave force necessary to shake loose an apple at picking time is much less than that required to break loose healthy leaves.

OBSERVATION: In Fall Weather Friends, a herd of galloping ponies can cause a forest's worth of leaves to fall.

Being an event utilizing dozens of ponies, just like winter wrap up, the running go the leaves could be a massive friendship ritual, channeling the sportsmaneship of all ponies participating into the same sort of effect which defeated the windigos. It is required to shift the genius loci into Fall Mode from Summer Mode, just like winter wrap up shifts the spirit from Winter to Spring. We have every reason to believe the march of the seasons is entirely manual.

HYPOTHESIS 1: When Applejack kicks a tree, she channels some of her inherent magical energy ("AppleQuarks") into the tree, magically fixing the leaves in place while severing the stems holding apples in place. When she participates in the Running of the Leaves she can channel her AppleQuarks in a different manner to shake loose the leaves instead.

Other types of ponies also have access to AppleQuarks and can use them to achieve similar effects (Flim Flam Brothers). When a pony or dragon randomly strikes a tree, causing leaves and twigs to shake loose (Dragon Quest) they are not channelling AppleQuarks in the same way. When the CMC fail to pick Zap Apples, this is because their AppleQuark Energy is insufficient to deal with the magically resistant energy of the Zap Apples. This excess of magical energy also allows the Zap Apple Trees to defy the laws of composition and structure, allowing it to bend like a rubber band.

When Applejack used a tree branch to catapult herself forwards in Fall Weather Friends she was using her AppleQuark energy to enhance the tree branch with magical elasticity, allowing her to propel herself dramatically through the air fast enough to not immediately crash into the ground despite her non-aerodynamic, wingless form. Applejack suffers no ill effects from this sudden acceleration, perhaps due to some other type of magic.

If a human being visitor from another reality tried any of these tricks they would fail due to his lack of AppleQuarks.

An interesting hypothesis. It's base premises don't necessarily follow the evidence, but it's interesting.

HYPOTHESIS 2: The laws of physics as we understand them do not apply.

Hypothesis 1 is "here is an idea". Hypothesis 2 is "your ideas are stupid, stop having them". I'll go with #2 if you supply something better, but concretely you haven't.

Your arguing with the actual show here. Applejack says "we can't grow in this cold," not "we can't grow in winter."

Not at all. I am arguing that the sun being gone does not cause severe enough cold to case snow and winter to prevent all food from being grown. Which the show itself tends to support.

And we know from Heart Warming's Eve that they couldn't grow in the snows from the Windigos as well, so it is more than just winter.

Weren't these winter snows that they couldn't grow in? The windigos increased the severity of the winter, an with enough traction could have prolonged it, but I thought the entire point was that long term strife betwee ponies over a course of years led to increasingly severe winters culminating in one so bad they weren't going to survive until the thaw.

I'm using the show here, you using RL examples does nothing to support your argument that Equestria isn't like Earth.

You're using the show incorrectly. "can't grow in cold" does not equal "no sun causes global freezing". I accounted for this, and used the show to support my examples as well. Your examples from the show are accurate, but do not counter the points I made. So however accurate your points are does not affect my own points. They are entirely separate.

Now whether the sun is what is heating the planet or not is up to you, but we have an order of operations for melting snow.
1. They move the snow to where it can safely melt, and cut the ice so it melts into small pieces.
2. They clear the sky and let the sun out.
3. A brilliant show of sunlight blazing down is shown, and the ice melted.

Yes, but the sunlight blaze is listed as a symptom of the season change, just like the ice Melting. It is not a cause. The ice not melting when the sun shown is aberrant, but no less aberrant than the ice melting and the sun not shining.

[quote]Moreover, we see the overcast sky in both episodes. And the clouds break and let sunshine through to melt the snow (once magically, once by the Pegasi moving the clouds)./quote]

We do see the overcast sky. But we have an understandable macro system which explains why the micro system you are explaining is correlated but not causative.

To your "mincing words" about disharmony, I find it a little disingenuous that rather than addressing my point that disharmony has been shown to lead to terrible consequences, you instead attacked one of my examples of this happening on the grounds that it was the wrong "type" of disharmony.

I agreed that disharmony has consequences. I disagree that you provided evidence that the sun not rising is disharmonious, and that it would cause enough disharmony to trigger those consequences. That's not disengenuous at all, and I'm sorry it came across that way. But just like magic, harmony has many uses in language that don't necessarily equate to each other. Does that make more sense?

The Eyes Have It

Geeze that's creepy.

That's a really interesting question! And the type of question we should be asking!

Indeed! And now to developing answers.

Fair enough. But this borders asking questions like why they actually institute a none-growing season in the first place

Because that is a defining trait of winter. It's a time of pulling in, taking in, incubating. The seed waits, hibernates and prepares. Everything has its time, and everything dies. Not fighting this is a point of harmony. There is a cycle, and you are in tune with it. The sun sleeps. The moon sleeps. The earth, too, sleeps. But she sleeps only for three months a year, for she knows her burden and loves too much to relax.

It's like why leaves fall in the autumn. That's a defining trait thereof, an part of the earth pony contract with the seasons. Not leaving the earth fallow would mean winter never achieved its end, and who knows? Maybe winter can't be wrapped up until its had it's run.

[Thanqol]

You guys fail at democracy. To the surprise of no pony whatsoever.

Your palsy arrogance fails to see
Ponythread is Better than Democracy

The gist is, if there is a system which works to explain everything with minimal effort/change, it is a more elegant/superior solution to one which requires more change or effort.

'the seasons and the time of day are separate states, not merely lackings of each other" covers these issues without abandoning understanding wholesale. It's covered every question presented, so far, without effort or bending. It also hasn't really been challenged itself so much. Which is odd, but I assume no one really cares enough about it to argue ;)

I understand none of what you have said here;
To understand SiuiS perhaps I need more beer.

[Eakin]

Hey guys it's been a while since I popped my head in here so... uh...

*reads last two pages*

So 17 weeks of no ponies is how long it took to drive y'all round the bend for good, huh? Good to know.

And Nightmare Moon totally would have killed everypony if she'd won. Otherwise I don't see how Celestia justifies banishing her for so long.

[Thanqol]

Being an event utilizing dozens of ponies, just like winter wrap up, the running go the leaves could be a massive friendship ritual, channeling the sportsmaneship of all ponies participating into the same sort of effect which defeated the windigos. It is required to shift the genius loci into Fall Mode from Summer Mode, just like winter wrap up shifts the spirit from Winter to Spring. We have every reason to believe the march of the seasons is entirely manual.

This sounds plausible, far more than the idea
That the law of physics somehow applies here

Hypothesis 1 is "here is an idea". Hypothesis 2 is "your ideas are stupid, stop having them". I'll go with #2 if you supply something better, but concretely you haven't.

Occam's razor, you must see
Is the best philosophy.

[Colonel Fedora]

RHYMES BE HAPPENIN DOG

I had hoped to share this news.
Your faster pace gives me the blues.

Regardless, I have to say.
I'm boggled by the words this day.

Discussion of Luna, and Nightmare Moon.
Switches to Pegasi, carrying harsher tunes.

I am unsure what to think.
Your clever words make my mind sink.

When Thanqol and Siuis have a bout.
My brain feels a little left out.

Despite all this, I find it fun.
To discuss these things by the ton.

So to all of you speaking this day.
Enjoy yourselves, or you will pay.

[SiuiS]

Your palsy arrogance fails to see
Ponythread is Better than Democracy

Oh, no. I'm perfectly accepting of that. I'm jut pouting out that people agreed to a thing and then did not follow through themselves.

I understand none of what you have said here;
To understand SiuiS perhaps I need more beer.

Okay, all your smarmy rhyming aside, was it really that opaque?

Hey guys it's been a while since I popped my head in here so... uh...

*reads last two pages*

So 17 weeks of no ponies is how long it took to drive y'all round the bend for good, huh? Good to know.

I wouldn't say for good but time will tell.

And Nightmare Moon totally would have killed everypony if she'd won. Otherwise I don't see how Celestia justifies banishing her for so long.

It's like buying in bulk. Best idea... If you can afford the bulk. If you're a dollar short your best bet is to get the lowest amount possible to last until you get more income.

If her choices were "kill NMM" or "knock her out for a millennia and did a way to fix her" it's not the best idea ever, but it may have been the best idea available in Celestia's timeframe.

Also, reign of unparalleled evil, that's pretty big. I mean, think about it;
NMM triumphs
The dark rises
Evil runs rampant
Colorful equine happiness at all time low
No reason for Bleakbane not to conquer the planet

Suddenly, Nightmare Moon ushers in an era of magi tech space liches unparalleled! Although then Hopereaver gets the coolest Moon Princess as a mount ever.

I had hoped to share this news.
Your faster pace gives me the blues.

Regardless, I have to say.
I'm boggled by the words this day.

Discussion of Luna, and Nightmare Moon.
Switches to Pegasi, carrying harsher tunes.

I am unsure what to think.
Your clever words make my mind sink.

When Thanqol and Siuis have a bout.
My brain feels a little left out.

Despite all this, I find it fun.
To discuss these things by the ton.

So to all of you speaking this day.
Enjoy yourselves, or you will pay.

It is, ironically, the most pony we have discussed in a long time XD

[RdMarquis]

Sadly, Mr. Andrews has made it so:
Talk Like Zecora Day is a go.

Ooh, boy. Assuming I even have time tomorrow, I'm limiting this to the thread and IRC. GMing in rhyme is going to be very awkward.

Er, that is...

Assuming tomorrow sees me with free time,
I will come visit to speak in words rhymed.

But narrating games would be too great a feat.
My players would knock me right out of my seat.

In closing, below's an appropriate pic.
Well, sort of. You know what, just give it a click.

http://www.derpibooru.org/89710?scop...c8df58349c48a4

[Balmas]

....Just noticed

Heh, expected more chaos over saying that I was a brony given how it was before.



Mostly seemed like I'm a hate magnet when being myself though



...what? I already mentioned I disliked a lot of things! how am I going to be a full brony with that?



Of course, you got to know what, where and how to throw it!
if you want to blow up some tanks in a street you don't randomly launch orbital bombardment, you just send an A-10 (or similar) and AGM them! that way you can be sure you're hitting him! and it's still cool!
It's all about using brute force at the best spots, doesn't work? use more! they're just like dots and art: use them right and you make a masterpiece!

You misunderstand, Luka my dear:
Your bronydom was abundantly clear.

yes yes yes yes yes yes

went by ToysRUs before going into work

walked back to the pony are(which they had moved again)

saw one Favorites set

YOINK!

(or MINE! in the tone of voice of a seagull from Nemo if you prefer)

and now Nightmare Moon, Trixie Lulamoon, and DJ-Pon3 are mine!!!!

Congratulations, my pony friend.
Truly, your swag shall know no end.

I think that's codswallop. I've always hated all the suggestions and implications that pegasus flight runs on magic, and especially the idea that whenever they do a trick they're casting spells. Where's the slightest suggestion that pegasus flight runs on magic rather than muscles and wingpower?

I'm afraid that nature disproves you here:
No natural critter shoots rainbows from their rear
when flying Mach 10. Although, perhaps, what we need
is to find a sparrow capable of such speed.

Chancellor Puddinghead, in a rare flash of brilliance, suggested to Princess Platinum and Commander Hurricane that there should be a yearly reminder of what had nearly been caused a second time with the Windigo's.

So they set their three best ponies, Smart Cookie, Private Pansy, and Clover the Clever to the job. While the obvious suggestion of making the day they defeated the Windigo's and discovered the Fire of Friendship into a holiday was a good one, they felt it wasn't enough.

So they planned, researched, and put together a proposal.

Create the circumstances of the harsh winter every year, have the Pegasi churn up the snow and winds, have the Unicorns organize and prepare buildings for all the ponies to hide from the cold grip, and have the Earth Ponies farm and save food to feed Equestria for the time needed.

The idea turned out to be a popular one for Hurricane and Platinum, but Puddinghead had one suggestion to make.

"Make it the best time ever! Have the snow and wind, have the shortage of food, but make sure everyone can enjoy the winter for as long as it lasts!"

Stunned into silence, the other five could only nod as ideas built in their heads, scribbling and drawing out the plans as fast as they could, glad to have managed to create a time for all ponies to remember why they need to work together.

This was never mentioned in the play, nor was it ever spread amongst the ponies as to why this had to happen. All the Equestrians knew, was that for a few short months there was snow, cold air, and a lot of hot meals.

Though the reasoning was lost in time, the tradition continues today.

A plausible explanation indeed.
It has been headcanon'd by me.

[TheAmishPirate]

Fair enough. But this borders asking questions like why they actually institute a none-growing season in the first place

Well, the song mentions holidays and relaxation, though that is a rather weak explanation. Maybe the plants need that "down time" in order to grow properly? It seems rather contrived no matter how you look at it.

Well, you can clearly see...

Sadly, Mr. Andrews has made it so:
Talk Like Zecora Day is a go.

...my timing's so-so.
A chance to bust rhymes? Let's give it a go:

A season for fallow, much sense it makes
Perhaps not as a reminder of past mistakes.

But instead, a simpler reason suggests
They have enough food, why not take a rest?

Ponies say they enjoy their wintertime sport
When the snow falls heavy and days grow short

Grow food all year round? Most chuckle and say
A dull pony is born by all work and no play.

If nine months are needed to produce for a year
Why not have three more to spread joy and good cheer?

So winter exists for the farmer's respite
His stores are full, let him laugh for a night
Let all be merry, as the snow grows higher
Come, take a seat, here's your place by the fire.

(From Zecora to Seuss, I fear I have strayed
It is how I rhyme, do not feel betrayed)

[Thanqol]

I'm afraid that nature disproves you here:
No natural critter shoots rainbows from their rear
when flying Mach 10. Although, perhaps, what we need
is to find a sparrow capable of such speed.

What manner of butterflies, my friend,
Can catch a pony on the descend?

[Anarion]

It's still September 3rd where I am, Zecora speech shall have to wait.

Edit: Well, it was when I started to type
Now, I must join with the hype.

First, the final X-pony report from Commander Vinyl Scratch.

Spoiler

Show

Dear Princess Celestia,

We did it. I still can't believe they put me in charge of this rag-tag band of heroes, but we did it. And y'know, commander Scratch has a nice ring to it. I think I might stay with the force after this. Maybe assign Sergeant Octy to be my personal secretary. Her expression every time I give her a direct order is just so rich.

I guess, let me back up. In preparation for the trip to Cydnonia, I decided to be extra careful. First off, we consolidated bases and split the troops up into the psionically gifted and the, we'll call them psionically challenged. Given our experience with those blasted Etherials, taking a pony withb weak psionic skill to Cydonia was a risk I wasn't willing to take. We didn't have time for as much training as I would ahve liked, but everypony that went on the final mission had more than 70 psionic strength based on the psionics lab rating, and between 30 and 50 psionic skill.

Let me take this moment to call out thanks to my sweet fillies, Lyra and Bon-Bon. At 100 and 97 psionic strength, respectively, the two of them went hog wild when we got into the alien base. They never pulled off a mind control on an Etherial, but the two of them bested 2 Sectoid leaders and a Sectoid commander in a single round of psionic power, and mind-controlled the commander into unloading a blaster bomb into his own control room. Then, when we got into the bowels of the base, they mind-controlled several Chryssalids. Those things are so fast, and when they're on our side, they wreck house.

So yeah, psionics were a big part of our victory. Production was another big one. Before take-off the boys back home finished up all the kit I asked for them, and they did it in record time. We went in with everypony armed with heavy plasma, you and I carrying blaster launchers and extra ammo, psi amps for everypony, and not 1, not 2, but 3 plasma hover tanks. I uh, might have sort of blown up one of the hovertanks with my blaster launcher, but these things happen and we finished with the other two intact. On top of that, we had flight armor for everypony, and that made moving around the Cydonian landscape really easy, not to mention taking shortcuts in the underground section of their base. And while we were gone, our triple Avengers with plasma held down the fort back on earth.

We ended up taking out a little over 60 UFOs total. near the end, I stopped even sending ground teams. We just had the Avengers blow the UFOs out of the sky as fast as they could enter the atmosphere, and I tried to take some of them over water so that there would be no survivors in any of the wreckage. Our hyperwave decoders said that the aliens were doing some kind of "retaliation" mission, but it's hard to figure out how they would retaliate against us when any ship that got within 1500 miles of one of my bases got shot down with half an hour.

I did find that last alien base before I left, too. Would you believe it was in Brazil as well? Like, less than 500 miles from base #4. I can't figure out why our planes didn't find it earlier, but now I know why Brazil pulled out of the X-pony project. Their loss, considering all the sweet, sweet Cydonian tech we brought back.

Princess, I also want to give you a special shout-out. All that firing range training you did really paid off, and it was a satisfying moment when you were cross-map sniping with your heavy plasma and a 105% hit rate.

A shout-out to my senior officer corps. Princess, you made a great colonel, and Colgate, I'm sorry I snatched your command, it wasn't my idea, and you my a great field colonel as well.

I think back to that first terror mission, when we had no idea what we were doing, and a single reaper seemed like the most scary thing in the world. And I look at how far you have all come.

Fillies and gentlecolts, I see great things in the future for X-pony. It's going to be awesome and I hope you all receive this message and stay on with me, if you wish. I'd welcome you all, you have served with dignity, honor, and butt-kicking radicalness.

Let November 4th go down as the day all of you saved the world.

Your faithful DJ,
Commander Vinyl Scratch

And Nightmare Moon totally would have killed everypony if she'd won. Otherwise I don't see how Celestia justifies banishing her for so long.

I'm going to use this as a convenient entry point to the discussion.

Nightmare Moon was a queen. She heralded her return by appearing before the gathered townsfolk in place of Celestia and announcing her victory along with an evil laugh. If she just wanted everypony dead, I don't think she would act the way that she did. She wanted them to know she was back and know who she was.

This is linked to the original reason for her becoming Nightmare Moon: loneliness and sadness that everypony ignored her beautiful night and jealousy towards her sister.

Now, I think it's heavily implied, both by Nightmare's Moon's magic, and the fact that everypony panics when they here that Celestia is gone, that eternal night would be pretty terrible. It probably has monsters, and it might involve things like extreme cold, great danger for anypony going outside, and even a relative scarcity of food.

However, I suspect that there exist plants that can grow without light and provide alternatives, as well as enough heating sources, magical or otherwise, to keep the population alive. And if there weren't, Nightmare Moon probably would have assisted once she had established her new castle and gotten her kingdom properly set up. Because Nightmare Moon, twisted as she is, wants a kingdom of fearful and adoring subjects, not a kingdom of corpses.
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Regarding Pegasi and Earth pony abilities and magic, you're basically just arguing semantics, as far as I can tell. Magic, if you take Twilight's soap box, means something like a studied technique, used intentionally, in order to create a specific and repeatable effect.

If you follow my interpretation of Twilight's definition, that discounts most things that are not unicorn magic. A sonic rainboom wouldn't count because it happens to any pegasus that hits a certain speed, whether they will it or not, and whether they even know about it or not. Similarly, bucking apples or falling leaves seem to be natural phenomena that are not always consistent, but that happen at certain times or in response to certain actions whether the pony wills it to happen or not.

I'd also point out that anything being done during Winter-Wrap up is specifically called out as NOT being magic because Ponyville follows earth pony tradition and uses no magic for their Winter Wrap-up. That means all the cloud and bird gathering, animal communication, planting and snow clearing are not, at least according to the inhabitants of Ponyville, classified as magic.

[Balmas]

What manner of butterflies, my friend,
Can catch a pony on the descend?

Perhaps my point was not well said.
This is what I meant instead:
These pegasi are more than muscle,
Despite how eager they are to tussle.

If, in nature, no rainbooms appear,
Then that there must be more is clear.
Of magic, I don't claim to know.
Pegasi do have something, though.

[Anarion]

Perhaps my point was not well said.
This is what I meant instead:
These pegasi are more than muscle,
Despite how eager they are to tussle.

If, in nature, no rainbooms appear,
Then that there must be more is clear.
Of magic, I don't claim to know.
Pegasi do have something, though.

But, can you say it's more than speed?
What else can race when there's a need?

A pegasus may be nature's swiftest creature.
And thus the rainboom, a unique feature.

But speed alone, does not prove magic.
If rainbooms are so rare, it merely proves tragic.