MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

[Kish]

I do not believe adding "must be something impossible to describe, not just merely ugly and unique" to the creature's required characteristics would be either viable or wise.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

If this is an accurate 3rd ed version of the hollyphant, 10 strength is nowhere enough for the tower scene. Can someone with access to BoED confirm?

I have to say I find him absolutely too adorable for the circus scene, even in bat form.

GW

[CloakedDancer]

What's the source of the holyphant? I don't think I remember seeing it. (Of course, based on the name, there's a good chance it's one of the monsters I have attempted to scrub from my mind )

Fair enough I didn't think it was a great candidate anyway.

The fluff I quoted was from the Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix II. I just liked the fluff mentioning hunters and the Astral Plane, as well as its psionics abilities. It also amused me thinking about it using its trunk for the curtain. But then all of the problems with it started stacking up...

[Savannah]

That (the one Grey Wolf linked) is not the official holyphant.

The BoED version has Str 10 in its small form and Str 22 in its large form.

The holyphant can NOT explain the escape scene -- while it has greater teleport, that is explicitly restricted to "self and up to 20 pounds of objects only" and I cannot find any other spell-like or psionic abilities that could work.

Holyphants have several abilities that we have never seen the MitD do -- not going to rule it out, obviously, but it makes it more unlikely in my opinion.

About the only plus I see is that holyphants communicate telepathically, so finding one that's speaking would be very odd.

[Bulldog Psion]

I have to say I find him absolutely too adorable for the circus scene, even in bat form.

I agree with you 100% on that.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

First post update:

Sections modified
1b: The Escape - Added a link to DaggerPen's compilation of escape-worthy psionic powers.
2a: Limbs - Added a note about colouring book
2b: Psionics - Added the purplish aura
2b - Added "Swallow Whole?" to the list.
2c: Family - Added the possibility he was created.
3d: Baku - modified the entry on its teleportation
4c: Gate - added the possibility of MitD thinking gate is only the spell.

Creatures added
Asura
Hollyphant
My Little Pony (under copyright)
Zoidberg (under copyright)

Status: Complete

[Crusher]

Found a new possible one: Bauhei, the Black Leopard http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthr...70#post4301770

Former god who has lost most of his power when a new pantheon arose and took pretty much all of his worshipers. This version is his 3.5 update from 2008, but he was originally introduced in 1988 in OA5, Mad Monkey vs the Dragon Claw which I assume is some obscure old splatbook.

Circus Scene: Huge, muscular man with a leopard's head. While that's not overly shocking, the fluff does say that "His mere presence is awe-inspiring". He's also got an awe aura but it has to be consciously turned on.

Tower Scene: No DR and hp isn't all that impressive, but I'm guessing both Miko and Belkar would have trouble hitting a 46 AC. 30 STR.

Escape Scene: Greater Teleport three times per day, and none of that pesky self plus 50 lbs stuff.

Pros:
- Level 20 sorcerer who is allowed to use his spell slots on cleric spells despite not actually having any cleric levels. Astral Projection is a typical spell.
- Chaotic Neutral
- His aura ability, while it has to be turned on consciously, causes awe/fascination which fits really nicely with the circus scene
- Not exactly a god, referred to as an ancient spirit, no immunity to charm/mind control

Cons:
- Not all that strange looking
- Do ancient spirits have parents?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Circus Scene: Huge, muscular man with a leopard's head. While that's not overly shocking, the fluff does say that "His mere presence is awe-inspiring". He's also got an awe aura but it has to be consciously turned on.

<snip>

- His aura ability, while it has to be turned on consciously, causes awe/fascination which fits really nicely with the circus scene

I don't see it fitting the circus scene. A man with a tiger's head is weird, I'll grant you, but a horrible, ugly sonofabitch? Not really. I'm also not sure why you think awe fits the reactions of the public. Under what circumstances would awe cause vomiting?

Grey Wolf

[Crusher]

Oh, I was remembering times when I've been so nervous or intimidated that I've felt nauseous (before a big date, job interview, etc) and that was dealing with mortals. If I got that feeling from being face-to-face with a near-god I could see myself accidentally re-decorating my shoes.

Edit - Perhaps I should have said "Fits better than I might have thought" instead of "fits really nicely" as it was really about my expectations being surpassed.

[allenw]

I'm also not sure why you think awe fits the reactions of the public. Under what circumstances would awe cause vomiting?

Grey Wolf

According to the description, one of the possible effects of the Awe power

Fright: Affected beings become shaken and suffer a –2 morale penalty on attack rolls, saves, and checks. The merest glance or gesture from the Black Leopard makes them frightened, and they flee as quickly as they can, although they can choose the path of their flight.

However, the description also seems to say that he chooses one Awe effect, not that different people seeing him at the same time coulkd have different Awe effects.

I don't think a singular entity like this really fits MitD. I suppose the SBGH's could have been talking about "oriental spirits" as the "them" in "one of them", but their (and others') reaction seems more consistent with MitD (appearing to be) a member of a species, not a unique individual.

[zimmerwald1915]

that's an excellent observation. Has any other caster ever had a yellow aura aura around their spells before?

A bit late, but Dorukan had a yellow aura. It looks brown in that panel, but that is, I think, down to its being transparent against a dark blue background. It's opaque, and bright yellow here, and is also bright yellow in the Crayons of Time strips.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Lee's magic also has a yellow aura: 1 2.

[SavageWombat]

Tower Scene: No DR and hp isn't all that impressive, but I'm guessing both Miko and Belkar would have trouble hitting a 46 AC. 30 STR.

Miko was pretty confident that she needed to Power Attack for extra damage to hurt it, not hit more accurately. It's DR.

[Dr.Gunsforhands]

Miko was pretty confident that she needed to Power Attack for extra damage to hurt it, not hit more accurately. It's DR.

Hey, there's an interesting idea... if she can't do enough damage to harm it normally, but can if she pumps herself with power attack, that's a pretty narrow DR window, isn't it?

On the other hand, she probably has no idea what MitD is - she couldn't see him any better than we can - so she might not actually have a chance of getting through. Then again, 'tickling,' is the sort of sensation you might get when something is just on the verge of actual damage, and he found Miko's katana overwhelmingly distracting ("Hahaha! Stop it!") whereas Belkar's daggers couldn't even interrupt his train of thought. The difference might just be that he didn't hit through natural armor, whereas Miko landed some lucky shots that were just DR'ed to zero, but there was a difference.

Reading the first post's entry on the subject and recalling the paper cut, it would seem to indicate that he does at least register pain even from such a tiny injury. Xykon sets a precedent for taking damage without reacting to it, but being so stoic might be against MitD's nature.

EDIT: Reading some of the FBS examples, the creatures with epic DR (which it would almost have to be; Belkar's daggers are known to be magical) usually have it at a value around 10. Without raging, that's about where Belkar's damage per hit would top out; he'd be dealing no damage (and perhaps go unnoticed), whereas Miko might be able to deal some, but not much (and perhaps induce tickles).

Am I going off the rails here? This is old ground that has probably been discussed to death already, so now I'm worried that I'm just wasting time by dwelling on it at all.

[Gift Jeraff]

Nale's magic is also yellow.

[Savannah]

Drat, I hate it when I find something interesting but the book publication date rules it out

[DaggerPen]

Drat, I hate it when I find something interesting but the book publication date rules it out

What is it and what's the publication date? There might be an earlier version of it or something.

EDIT: A few typos to the Swallow Whole section:

"In SoD, Xykon orders a mind controlled MitD to devour whole RC is"

"Xykon had only just met MitD, and since he interested in reading" Did you mean "he is not interested"?

[rweird]

Found a new possible one: Bauhei, the Black Leopard http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthr...70#post4301770

Former god who has lost most of his power when a new pantheon arose and took pretty much all of his worshipers. This version is his 3.5 update from 2008, but he was originally introduced in 1988 in OA5, Mad Monkey vs the Dragon Claw which I assume is some obscure old splatbook.

Circus Scene: Huge, muscular man with a leopard's head. While that's not overly shocking, the fluff does say that "His mere presence is awe-inspiring". He's also got an awe aura but it has to be consciously turned on.

Tower Scene: No DR and hp isn't all that impressive, but I'm guessing both Miko and Belkar would have trouble hitting a 46 AC. 30 STR.

Escape Scene: Greater Teleport three times per day, and none of that pesky self plus 50 lbs stuff.

Pros:
- Level 20 sorcerer who is allowed to use his spell slots on cleric spells despite not actually having any cleric levels. Astral Projection is a typical spell.
- Chaotic Neutral
- His aura ability, while it has to be turned on consciously, causes awe/fascination which fits really nicely with the circus scene
- Not exactly a god, referred to as an ancient spirit, no immunity to charm/mind control

Cons:
- Not all that strange looking
- Do ancient spirits have parents?

Other cons:
- This was made 16th June 2008, 08:17 PM, that is several years after Rich determined what the MitD is (unless someone could find an older version).
- Level 20 sorcerer who is allowed to use his spell slots on cleric spells. This means that he wouldn't need 5 levels of cleric to animate dead.

I don't think it is all that likely, mainly due to date it was updated.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

According to the description, one of the possible effects of the Awe power [Fright]

Fear doesn't match the effects on the public either, when you get right down to it. No spectator runs away, and when people are frightened, they do not vomit - if we see any previously consumed food being returned to the world, it would be from the other end, if you get my meaning, in the form of conspicuous yellow and brown stains.

Miko was pretty confident that she needed to Power Attack for extra damage to hurt it, not hit more accurately. It's DR.

Miko's decision to use Power Attack was to ensure she "lost" the contest as soon as possible so she could be on her way. She didn't need accuracy, since presumably MitD was doing nothing to evade the attack.

EDIT: A few typos to the Swallow Whole section:

"In SoD, Xykon orders a mind controlled MitD to devour whole RC is"

"Xykon had only just met MitD, and since he interested in reading" Did you mean "he is not interested"?

Fixed. Thanks!

Grey Wolf

[SavageWombat]

Miko's decision to use Power Attack was to ensure she "lost" the contest as soon as possible so she could be on her way. She didn't need accuracy, since presumably MitD was doing nothing to evade the attack.
Grey Wolf

1) She specifically calls out bypassing the monsters DR as her reason for Power Attacking. I'm not saying he doesn't potentially have a high AC, just that it wasn't her primary concern at that moment.

2) You honestly think that MIKO would play a game with an "evil" monster fairly? Just seems out of character to me. I always assumed she would have finished her statement with "slay the beast" or some such.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

1) She specifically calls out bypassing the monsters DR as her reason for Power Attacking. I'm not saying he doesn't potentially have a high AC, just that it wasn't her primary concern at that moment.

Yes, and that reasoning is a means to an end: loosing the game. She doesn't know if he has DR or not, since she's never seen what MitD is, but if he does, she intends to hit him as hard as possible to loose.

2) You honestly think that MIKO would play a game with an "evil" monster fairly? Just seems out of character to me. I always assumed she would have finished her statement with "slay the beast" or some such.

I'm confused. I said she was trying to loose on purpose. Why would you think I was claiming that was fair? Obviously playing to loose is not fair.

GW

[SavageWombat]

I'm confused. I said she was trying to loose on purpose. Why would you think I was claiming that was fair? Obviously playing to loose is not fair.

GW

Because she's playing the game AT ALL instead of trying to kill the "evil" monster while he's vulnerable. Your assumption means she's gambling that the monster is going to let her go after she "loses".

Just saying that doesn't sound like Miko's thought processes.

[Throknor]

Because she's playing the game AT ALL instead of trying to kill the "evil" monster while he's vulnerable. Your assumption means she's gambling that the monster is going to let her go after she "loses".

Just saying that doesn't sound like Miko's thought processes.

She is setting up to attack it with warning. Sounds a lot like what happened with the ogres. She isn't 'playing the game' so much as planning an attack in the circumstances presented to her. The aside to her horse is more to let him (and us) know she's planning on striking at full strength, increasing the humor when the MITD beats her to it and sends her through the wall to boot.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Because she's playing the game AT ALL instead of trying to kill the "evil" monster while he's vulnerable. Your assumption means she's gambling that the monster is going to let her go after she "loses".

Just saying that doesn't sound like Miko's thought processes.

I don't need to speculate about Miko's thought process. She is a paladin, so she is unlikely to lie to her own horse. She tells him she is playing to loose, and I take her at her word. But her purpose is irrelevant to this thread, so I'll stop this line of inquiry at this point.

GW

[Qwertystop]

Because she's playing the game AT ALL instead of trying to kill the "evil" monster while he's vulnerable. Your assumption means she's gambling that the monster is going to let her go after she "loses".

Just saying that doesn't sound like Miko's thought processes.

I'm not sure you understand. In this case, it's impossible for her to try to kill MitD without "playing," to lose or otherwise. The "game" is just "hit the other person," and she has no other way of trying to kill him besides that.

[SavageWombat]

I'm not sure you understand. In this case, it's impossible for her to try to kill MitD without "playing," to lose or otherwise. The "game" is just "hit the other person," and she has no other way of trying to kill him besides that.

That's the point I'M trying to make. GreyWolf thinks she's just trying to lose the game - I think she's trying to Power Attack the monster so she gets damage through.

[KillItWithFire]

That's the point I'M trying to make. GreyWolf thinks she's just trying to lose the game - I think she's trying to Power Attack the monster so she gets damage through.

It's not explicitly stated. All she says is that she intends to attack with greater power. That could just mean she intends to smite evil. In the end though, I think it's kind of irrelevant. All it really tells us though is that what Miko believes is that she must hit MitD with more damage to overcome DR, which should be taken with a grain of salt. Not because it's Miko who said it, but simply because she doesn't know what MitD is or why her attack was so powerless. In the end it is simply Miko's judgement call.

[SavageWombat]

It's not explicitly stated. All she says is that she intends to attack with greater power. That could just mean she intends to smite evil. In the end though, I think it's kind of irrelevant. All it really tells us though is that what Miko believes is that she must hit MitD with more damage to overcome DR, which should be taken with a grain of salt. Not because it's Miko who said it, but simply because she doesn't know what MitD is or why her attack was so powerless. In the end it is simply Miko's judgement call.

If that's what people have agreed to decide, fine. It's not clearly stated. But in a D&D game or simulation thereof, there's almost no situation where a PC is not told if he hit the target's AC or not - and if Miko knows she hit the monster, but did it no damage, assuming DR is a natural guess. So I don't think I'm making an unreasonable assumption - just one more cautious guessers don't want to assume.

Also, I believe the Class and Level Geekery thread uses this line as the evidence that Miko has Power Attack as a feat - and if she intended to smite the monster I think she'd say "smite" instead of "attack with more power". So I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption either.

If you want to leave open the possibility that the MitD is "immune to all weapons forged by man" or some such, fine - but you're not likely to find a monster with that power by looking through D&D books. Just sayin'.

[KillItWithFire]

If that's what people have agreed to decide, fine. It's not clearly stated. But in a D&D game or simulation thereof, there's almost no situation where a PC is not told if he hit the target's AC or not - and if Miko knows she hit the monster, but did it no damage, assuming DR is a natural guess. So I don't think I'm making an unreasonable assumption - just one more cautious guessers don't want to assume.

Times like these I wish I knew French, suffice to say "This is not a pipe" then. Miko is not a player playing Miko being informed of her attacks by a DM, Miko is Miko, and Miko saw only that her attacks did not damage MitD. Now since plate adds to the AC of a creature it is reasonable to assume that one of the outcomes of failing to penetrate AC is that the attack glanced off the armor, which could be what happened here. I'm not saying it's the only possibility, just that we shouldn't make hasty assumptions of what Miko means.

Also, I believe the Class and Level Geekery thread uses this line as the evidence that Miko has Power Attack as a feat - and if she intended to smite the monster I think she'd say "smite" instead of "attack with more power". So I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption either.

While they would certainly be the experts in this case they are by no means infallible.

If you want to leave open the possibility that the MitD is "immune to all weapons forged by man" or some such, fine - but you're not likely to find a monster with that power by looking through D&D books. Just sayin'.

You're the one making assumptions, not me. You are assuming that Miko must have power attack and intended to use it based on this scene and I merely provided an interpretation where that was not the case. The burden of proof is on you my friend. Like I said before though, it's likely irrelevant as we all end up in the same place after all is said and done.

[Kish]

Does it really matter what Miko was intending to do? She referred to the creature's damage reduction, as did Belkar. The creature has high damage reduction or something it's easy to mistake for damage reduction.

(If the argument over Miko's intentions must continue in this thread, please note: One o in lose. It causes my English degree pain to read about her planning to "loose.")