MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

[Savannah]

DaggerPen, if you see any you can't find stat blocks on, feel free to post the name for others to take a look at -- I never have time to do a monster manual binge, but I have a LOT of sources (I kinda love the monster books ) and am willing to look up and assess possibilities others come up with.

[DaggerPen]

DaggerPen, if you see any you can't find stat blocks on, feel free to post the name for others to take a look at -- I never have time to do a monster manual binge, but I have a LOT of sources (I kinda love the monster books ) and am willing to look up and assess possibilities others come up with.

TY! Yeah, I'm thinking I'm going to do that. I tried to look over all the ones that jumped out at me, but some were hard to find.

Actually, on that note, does anyone have the stats for a Brainstealer Dragon? Because those have some ludicrous CR even in smaller forms, and from their appearance - well, you can tell it's dragonesque, but I'd still call this "not like anything I'd seen before,"

[Savannah]

Do you know what book it's from? As I said, I have a LOT of sources

[Grey_Wolf_c]

you can tell it's dragonesque, but I'd still call this "not like anything I'd seen before,"

Agreed. It is not even that dragonesque. I mean, at first glance it looked to me more like a massive illithid, but the more I look at it the less like anything else it seems. A bit of light googling throws this picture up, which is even weirder.

Edit:

Do you know what book it's from? As I said, I have a LOT of sources

Some more googling seems to indicate it is from the Monsters of the Mind article from Dragon #337

GW

[DaggerPen]

Brainstealer Dragon, according to the list, is from Dragon Magazine #337. Usual dragon age and size issues do seem to apply, but if size is the only real problem with it then it may be a strong candidate.

For anyone who'd like to look without downloading, I've got the file uploaded in a GDoc here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bzd3...it?usp=sharing

I'll be sorting it by CR and slowly going through and filtering out already suggested possibilities shortly. After that, I intend to do up the pros and cons of each one over the course of a long period of time and jot down its viability in a few columns I'll add. Anyone who'd like to chip in can feel free to just request to share the document, and I'll let you edit. Please don't vandalize, that would make me sad.

EDIT: Shoot, that upload conversion didn't make it a spreadsheet! I'll have to do this the hard way. I'll either post with the new link or update this post with the new link, depending on whether or not someone's posted after me by the time it's fixed.

SECOND EDIT: Finally! I had to delete a lot of extraneous columns, as well as anything marked with a CR of less than 15 (there are still a lot with no CR listed, alas, which is going to be a pain in the butt), but finally, I have a spreadsheet to work with: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...qT2JkdVE#gid=0

I still need to trim it down based on publication date, etc., but for now, it's a start.

It has almost 21k monsters at the moment.

... who says we've run out of monsters to check?

[Scizor]

I still need to trim it down based on publication date, etc., but for now, it's a start.

It has almost 21k monsters at the moment.

... who says we've run out of monsters to check?

Mind if I sig that?

[DaggerPen]

Mind if I sig that?

Hahaha. Go ahead! XD

[saltysugar96]

If you do find an escape explanation for zoidberg, though, I may give it a write-up similar to the one for Snorlax, though.

Nuts to just the escape scene, I've got evidence for all the big scenes.

Escape:
I mentioned this a few pages ago when Zoidberg was first brought up, but the Farnsworth Novelty Disintegrator Ray is described as such by the Futurama wiki:

the Farnsworth novelty disintegrator ray is nothing more than a common teleporter ray. It's merely a worthless toy.

Tower:
Also from The Infosphere:

His claws and exoskeleton are incredibly strong and resilient. His claws can cut through human flesh, bone, and even some metals while his exoskeleton is impervious to knives and swords.

This explains his general ability to ignore Miko's damage (and most everyone else's for that matter). He has also been shown to be exceptionally strong. Being able to cut through bones and some metals aside, the episode Why Must I be a Crustacean in Love shows that he is able to lift several adult humans along with (I assume) several hundred pounds of lifting equpiment.

Circus scene:
Zoidberg has been described by several of his co-workers as hideous, and on several occasions cause them to retch. If I may borrow the possibility of molting to explain the crowds reaction; Fry retched at seeing Dr. Z shed and leave his exoskeleton (Nude beach planet; Bender's Big Score) He also has a gland that gives off foul odors when he's bored. (Bender's Big Score)

He also caused Fry to retch when

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Escape:
I mentioned this a few pages ago when Zoidberg was first brought up, but the Farnsworth Novelty Disintegrator Ray is described as such by the Futurama wiki:

First appearance of Disintegrator ray: 2010-1011 season. MitD Escape: 2009.

GW

[saltysugar96]

First appearance of Disintegrator ray: 2010-1011 season. MitD Escape: 2009.
GW

The Birdbot of Ice-Catraz was the first instance that we see Fry has an interest in drawing comics. Zoidberg is also shown to be very interested in those comics (Oh! The new one's out!). From here on out I'm speculating, but given that teleporter rays are "worthless toys," it seems entirely possible that Zoidberg could have purchased a different brand than the Professor's. It actually still could be the Professor's (albeit retconed) given that it would have taken him some time to develop and market his version.

[Bulldog Psion]

TY! Yeah, I'm thinking I'm going to do that. I tried to look over all the ones that jumped out at me, but some were hard to find.

Actually, on that note, does anyone have the stats for a Brainstealer Dragon? Because those have some ludicrous CR even in smaller forms, and from their appearance - well, you can tell it's dragonesque, but I'd still call this "not like anything I'd seen before,"

I've never seen anything like it before.

Honestly, that's a weird one. And a very intriguing one at that. When was Dragon #337 published? Was it before or after OotS strip 100, which is when I think Mr. Burlew said he'd decided what the MitD is.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The Birdbot of Ice-Catraz was the first instance that we see Fry has an interest in drawing comics. Zoidberg is also shown to be very interested in those comics (Oh! The new one's out!). From here on out I'm speculating, but given that teleporter rays are "worthless toys," it seems entirely possible that Zoidberg could have purchased a different brand than the Professor's. It actually still could be the Professor's (albeit retconed) given that it would have taken him some time to develop and market his version.

All of which is irrelevant, since the concept of the ray, which you are using to explain the escape, didn't exist for Rich to use when he needed it.

Also, not exactly "digging deep for powers he didn't remember he had" if it is just "drag this plastic thing from my pocket and aim it at O-chul". A carbosilicate amorph can use an external item like the teraport because an amorph can interface with electronics, being a mass storage device itself, if he digs deep into its own structure. Zoidberg just needs to use the toy.

Edit:

When was Dragon #337 published?

2005, according to Amazon

GW

[Rakoa]

I think somebody needs to find the stats for this dragon. The concept of it is intriguing.

[DaggerPen]

2005, according to Amazon

GW

Ah, darn, I should've checked.

Well, given Rich's connections at Dragon Magazine, it's possible that he had access to the brainstealer dragon before it was released, but that's a pretty big mark against it. I'd still be curious to see the stats, though.

[Crusher]

Yeah, I downloaded that ages ago but found it surprisingly unhelpful. It has a bunch of stuff listed but, IIRC, nothing in the CR16+ range that we hadn't seen before elsewhere and it was surprisingly difficult to sort and work with to boot.

[ReaderAt2046]

I think I've guessed how MITD is going to be revealed. Kraagor's gate is supposed to be guarded by all the most powerful monsters in extance, so fifty to the dozen that when Team Evil is smashing through the dungeon, we'll meet a second MITD (probably female, if MITD is of a species that has genders), and then MITD jumps out of the darkness and runs to meet MITD!2.

[Emanick]

Ah, darn, I should've checked.

Well, given Rich's connections at Dragon Magazine, it's possible that he had access to the brainstealer dragon before it was released, but that's a pretty big mark against it. I'd still be curious to see the stats, though.

I doubt it. Rich's first 2005 comic was #134, and the brainstealer was in the November 2005 edition of Dragon Magazine. It would have had to have been on ice for at least a year before publication if Rich decided that it was the MitD "around strip #100." Technically that's possible - I can imagine the magazine putting off the monster's publication for over a year, just so that it wound up in the *perfect* issue - but it seems incredibly unlikely.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I think I've guessed how MITD is going to be revealed. Kraagor's gate is supposed to be guarded by all the most powerful monsters in extance, so fifty to the dozen that when Team Evil is smashing through the dungeon, we'll meet a second MITD (probably female, if MITD is of a species that has genders), and then MITD jumps out of the darkness and runs to meet MITD!2.

Been suggested several times. However, the timing of the reveal is not really the concern of this thread.

Yes, MitD likely belongs to a species with sexes, since he self-identifies as male, and does not allow girls in his secret clubs.

I doubt it. Rich's first 2005 comic was #134, and the brainstealer was in the November 2005 edition of Dragon Magazine. It would have had to have been on ice for at least a year before publication if Rich decided that it was the MitD "around strip #100." Technically that's possible - I can imagine the magazine putting off the monster's publication for over a year, just so that it wound up in the *perfect* issue - but it seems incredibly unlikely.

Unlikely, I'll grant you, but it was a special issue. 5 or 6 variations on the brain-slurping monster idea. WotC might have put out the call for ideas early on, a friend of Rich took up the dragon brain slurper in chief, and finished it early, then sat in a file cabinet for a year while the rest of the line up got finished.

I'm not saying it's not going to be a con, just that less than a year is something I'm willing to be slightly flexible about, in this specific case.

Grey Wolf

[glissle]

I suspect you don't, actually. I still don't know what to say in such entry. At least with the "can't see the gates" I could say it was likely just a joke. If someone does the footwork of how to translate "falls asleep after using the powers" into D&D, or tells me what game system that feels like a reference to, I can be happier about adding the section.

We don't know if the monster is from a game system. Falling asleep after using magical/psychic/super powers could be a trait of a critter from some other folklore, and matching it would be a pro.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

We don't know if the monster is from a game system. Falling asleep after using magical/psychic/super powers could be a trait of a critter from some other folklore, and matching it would be a pro.

That is vague to the point of uselessness. I said it already: if you want to see that topic spelled out, tell me precisely which game systems, superheroes and folklore have it, and then I'll add it.

Until then, if a proposal does have such characteristic, it will be mentioned as a pro. But given how rare that has been to this day, it does not warrant it own section.

GW

[Leriel]

About sleeping after using a power/casting a spell...

In TSR 02163 (Player's Option - Spells & Magic), released for AD&D 2nd edition, there is the description of the "Channellers": it's an optional magic system, where spellcaster get more and more tired after casting spells - they can cast spell like 3.0 sorcerers, but they exaust themself doing it.

You can find it in Chapter 6: Magic - section "System of Magic".

Just to add more entropy to the discussion

[Dr.Gunsforhands]

If you're looking for an entry where the sleeping bit is a positive feature, I think the Dream Larva might qualify. If he sent V and O-Chul away with Dream Travel, he could have fallen asleep and then dragged them to their destination in his own dreams. Since you don't usually remember your dreams after you wake up, he has no idea where he might have sent them when he comes to, or even what kind of ability he was using in the first place.

O-Chul mentioned that the way they were transported was kind of weird, and a paralyzed V might have not known what was happening either, especially since the effect is from a banned school. If they were whisked away without having to navigate themselves, though, the method of travel wouldn't have made much semantic difference in how they talked about it.

EDIT: Granted, that example is completely ruled out for a couple of other reasons, but still.

[Greylond]

I'd like to point out(or reiterate if it has already been pointed out) that the "Teleportation" just happened to take O'Chul and V to where the OoTS was at the time. That implies that it is not a normal Teleportation due to the fact that the MitD wasn't aware of the location. To Teleport the caster usually has to make a conscious decision on the location. In this case it wasn't shown that the MitD knew the target location, so therefore how would T-port be cast without knowing where the Target was going. Also, standard Teleport is on the caster.

I think what MitD did to transport O'Chul and V was something other Teleport.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'd like to point out(or reiterate if it has already been pointed out) that the "Teleportation" just happened to take O'Chul and V to where the OoTS was at the time. That implies that it is not a normal Teleportation due to the fact that the MitD wasn't aware of the location.

When you do not know the location, you have to roll in the list of critical miss. the best possible result of that table is "somewhere similar". In this case, a plot-nudged (equivalent to DM-nudged) roll would land them in the right place.

Yes, we have known for quite some time that wish doesn't have this particular requirement and it is thus a better option, but there aren't that many candidates that fit everything else that can cast wish.

Grey Wolf

[rweird]

When you do not know the location, you have to roll in the list of critical miss. the best possible result of that table is "somewhere similar". In this case, a plot-nudged (equivalent to DM-nudged) roll would land them in the right place.

Yes, we have known for quite some time that wish doesn't have this particular requirement and it is thus a better option, but there aren't that many candidates that fit everything else that can cast wish.

Grey Wolf

However, Greater Teleport says

there is no chance you arrive off target. In addition, you need not have seen the destination, but in that case you must have at least a reliable description of the place to which you are teleporting. If you attempt to teleport with insufficient information (or with misleading information), you disappear and simply reappear in your original location.

So I think that it being Greater Teleport is rather unlikely, and unless the monster has casting of some sort instead of SLAs, I doubt anything has Teleport, not Greater Teleport as an SLA.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

However, Greater Teleport says .

Yes, I am aware that greater teleport doesn't have fail chance. Which is why I didn't mention it at all.

GW

[Greylond]

It doesn't matter what kind of chance of failure Teleport or Greater Teleport may have. My point is that when you cast the spell you have to be able to say/think, "I want to go to THIS Spot." It doesn't work by saying, "I want to go to the spot to where my friends/leaders are." Heck, MitD didn't even know where the OotS was at. Therefore, I don't think MitD used any variation of T-port.

[Silverionmox]

I'd like to point out(or reiterate if it has already been pointed out) that the "Teleportation" just happened to take O'Chul and V to where the OoTS was at the time.

In fact, they appeared right above Hinjo's head. This indicates that the destination was based on O-Chul's desires/destination/idea of safety. It makes sense that the MitD would try to aid O-Chul in the first place.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

It doesn't matter what kind of chance of failure Teleport or Greater Teleport may have. My point is that when you cast the spell you have to be able to say/think, "I want to go to THIS Spot." It doesn't work by saying, "I want to go to the spot to where my friends/leaders are." Heck, MitD didn't even know where the OotS was at. Therefore, I don't think MitD used any variation of T-port.

No, I disagree. "I want to go to O-Chul's friends" is a destination. It is invalid because MitD doesn't know where that is and is not familiar with O-Chul's friends, but no different from "I want to go to my family" (i.e. concentrate on the people, rather than the location). Your DM may not like it, but importantly, it is up to the DM to decide if it is a valid destination. If the "DM" of OotS is fine with targeting people as well as fixed locations, then it is kosher. Since V can teleport to a ship (which moves around), we have canon support for teleporting to non-fixed destinations (presumably, she teleported to the very familiar location in the ship where she spent much of her time).

Now, you can think what you want, of course, about the spell/supernatural/SLA/etc. that MitD used, but it is your interpretation, not canon. I have heard the arguments that "it must be wish or equivalent" before, and I remain unconvinced, given how little payoff that hypothesis has given (zodar, IIRC, is the only decent match that uses wish to explain the escape). I was more suspicious of teleport before we saw V cast a useless dimension anchor during hirs fight with Xykon, but these days, that feels like a clue.

Grey Wolf

[Dain]

Hello,

I almost registered to give an idea i had some time ago. I haven't seen commented this in any post I have read although it's related to this information given in the first post of the thread.

Since he was able to both step on and pull on the rope at the same time, he must have or be able to produce at least two limbs, one of which must be prehensile.

In the same strip to pull the rope MiTD had to put the umbrella on the floor, so shouldn't it mean something about the maximum number of limbs he has? If he has, say, lots of tentacles or can produce them then he would be capable of pulling on the rope without putting the umbrella on the floor.

The first post tells us about the minimum but says nothing about the maximum.

It isn't much but maybe it can help a little.