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2013-02-27, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
How is Malack's ECL relevant to turning? A positive level adjustment reflects a disadvantage in hit dice, saving throws, and the like in exchange for other abilities. ECL is used to determine where a character is in the experience tables (and starting equipment, but that's obviously far in the past here). You use actual level/hit dice for everything else, including turning.
The extra hit die for starting lizardfolk, on the other hand, would alter the numbers, I think. If I'm understanding correctly, Malack should be turned as his cleric level + 5. That would push his max cleric level down by 1 in each scenario, assuming that his precaution is within the bounds of reason and that he knows--at least approximately--how effective Durkon is likely to be at turning him.
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2013-02-27, 09:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- USA
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2013-02-27, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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2013-02-27, 09:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
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2013-02-28, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
So as I'm sure most of you are aware, OOTS strips will appear regularly in the new Gygax magazine. Since the Dragon magazine comics have traditionally been a valid target for Geekery, the comics in this new magazine should likewise qualify. Unfortunately I haven't seen the magazine yet, but perhaps someone would like to comment on what this comic tells us about character stats?
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2013-02-28, 10:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei, King Joffrey, The Tickler, The Hound, Ser Amory, Polliver, Raff the Sweetling, Weese, Dunsen, Nale, Ser Gregor Clegane and Chiswyck: Winter is coming!
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2013-02-28, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Reposted from the Spells Durkon Has Cast Already Today thread:
Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2013-02-28 at 12:23 PM.
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2013-02-28, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
A possible "oops" in my earlier calculations:
While we're pretty sure Durkon's Knowledge (Religion) isn't maxed out, it's possible he's taken 5 or more ranks in it by now. If so, he gets a +2 bonus on his turn rolls, so his best modified roll would be 21. As it happens, that isn't actually enough to bump him up to the next tier of turning, so I don't think it changes the analysis. I just didn't want to overlook it.
Oh, and speaking of skills: doesn't the fact that he researched a spell at all indicate that Durkon has some ranks in Spellcraft?Last edited by Balance; 2013-02-28 at 01:00 PM.
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2013-02-28, 01:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
At such level, in determining his spells per day we should count only spells that:
1) were cast on-screen
2) if they were cast more than once - were cast without any sufficient off-screen delay
First point is because they have more than enough resources to casually use scrolls, wands and other items, second point is because of items like Pearls of Power that allow to restore memorization of a spell you've already cast once.
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2013-02-28, 03:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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- In a building.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
As of the latest strip, we now have strong evidence that Malack is a multiclassed (Barbarian or Shaman)/Cleric.
Last edited by Feddlefew; 2013-02-28 at 03:37 PM.
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2013-02-28, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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2013-02-28, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Mass death ward is a custom spell unique to Durkon, who has never once alluded to having the Scribe Scroll feat. It is almost certain he cast it from a spell slot. He used diamond dust as a material component for his attempted resurrection of a Draketooth, and stated he would need to use the rest of his diamond dust for another attempt, so both of those must have come from his spell slots. We saw him cast holy word onscreen.
Strictly speaking, the number of lower-level spells doesn't matter for purposes of determining a character's level once we've accounted, as we have, for all of Durkon's level 8 and level 7 slots. If Durkon casts another level 7 spell, or two level 8 spells, then we'll need to revise his level up or down.
Speaking of which, the new comic presents some more spells:
8th –
7th – holy wordD, mass death ward, resurrection (2)
6th – extended true seeing, find the path, heal (2)
5th – true seeing
4th – cure critical wounds
3rd – dispel magic, mass resist energy, meld into stone, remove blindness/deafness, speak with dead, thor's lightningD
2nd – cure moderate wounds, hold person (2), remove paralysis
1st –
0 (at-will) – detect poison, guidance
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2013-02-28, 03:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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- In a building.
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2013-02-28, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2005
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- Mountain View, CA
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
I rather think that Malack's class has always been cleric, and the "shaman" thing is a descriptive title just like Miko being a samurai. "Barbarian", similarly, is a descriptive adjective for the society he lived in, not an indication of class.
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2013-02-28, 03:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Yeah, Like that rogue cleric who was just a cleric who went rogue, not a rogue/cleric.
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2013-02-28, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- Czech Republic
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Is it possible to put Malack's level to 12+ since 873?
Lv 11 Cleric can cast 1+1 6th level spells and 2+1 5th level spells. In one day, Malack casted:
Blade Barrier and Heal(notice that unlike in 724, he's casting from his hand, not just staff) If he were just lv.11, one of his domains should be Strength or Healing(heh)
Harm and Quickened Inflict Moderate Wounds. With the same reasoning, one of his domains must be Destruction.
Quickened Inflict Light Wounds and twice Flame Strike. So he would have to have Sun or War domain.
And that simply doesn't hold water. So he needs to have at least 12 Cleric levels.
Edit: I forgot he may also get bonus spells from High Wisdom. Never mind thenLast edited by Mike Havran; 2013-02-28 at 04:49 PM.
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2013-02-28, 05:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2010
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- France
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Malack is over 200 years old. This can be added to the profile.
Also, he was named differently while alive.Last edited by St Fan; 2013-02-28 at 05:18 PM.
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2013-02-28, 05:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
If he is 200 years old, Does he get age bonuses? Undead don't get penalties if I remember correctly.
Last edited by mawexzon; 2013-02-28 at 05:26 PM.
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2013-02-28, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Northern Ireland
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
There's no clear answer on Undead and age benefits. As a DM I'd rule that any bonuses they got would be preserved and physical penalties would be eliminated (especially for Con), but they wouldn't get anything else. However since there's no clear answer, I'll leave it alone for now.
Age and Alias is fair game though.
So what would we mark this as? Higher cleric levels or higher wisdom? 22 is easy to reach, especially when you have 200 years to do it."They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
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2013-02-28, 05:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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2013-02-28, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Note on the first post: The link for Durkon's Mass Death Ward is broken.
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2013-02-28, 06:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
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2013-02-28, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
He doesn't even need age bonuses to hit 22. Vampire +4. Assuming 2 points assigned from level ups, that gives him +6. One would assume he's probably got at least 12 or more base wis if he's the shaman, and a magic item boosting wis seems like almost a given as well for someone of his ECL (which is Epic) and accompanying wealth (which should be on par with Tarquin if not greater). I'd probably peg him as having the highest wisdom score of any humanoid in the game thus far, somewhere in the 22-26 range, depending on items, rolls and age bonuses.
Up until now I'd been assuming he'd be turned into a vampire while part of Tarquin's adventuring party. With the revelation that he's actually over 200 years old, I'm inclined to think he's got more than his share of secrets kept from Tarquin as well, and a lot more power than he let on. You don't likely get to be over 200 years old and reach epic levels without some serious talent and power.
Edited; I had mistakenly thought lizardfolk got bonus wisdom, probably a carryover from some roguelike or another I've played.Last edited by Stormlock; 2013-02-28 at 06:18 PM.
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2013-02-28, 06:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
I would expect a creature to stop aging (and stop getting the associated bonuses/penalties, or perhaps only the latter) the moment he turns undead, although I cannot find that rule on d20srd.
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2013-02-28, 07:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
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2013-02-28, 07:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Even if it isn't on the rules, The Giant has shown to house-rule it that way, like when Xykon became Lich he felt a lot better, likely returning any penalties he had when he was alive.
Edit: Now that i've checked, Xykon has age bonuses, so why should Malack have them too?Last edited by mawexzon; 2013-02-28 at 07:44 PM.
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2013-02-28, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
His two castings of Heal had a lot of off-screen time in-between - more than enough to spend a round on activating Pearl Of Power 6. Same with Resurrections and Pearl of Power 7.
In both cases we can only count three 7th level spell slots and three 6th level spell slots used.Last edited by SinsI; 2013-02-28 at 07:44 PM.
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2013-02-28, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Well, one potential argument is that Xykon was old BEFORE he became undead. We don't know how old Malack was when he got turned, and maybe you only get the age bonus to mental stats while you're alive and retain it while dead, but can't actually accrue them while dead.
I personally find the whole age bonus stat thing really weird anyways. Orcs get smarter faster than humans, and elves and dwarves take forever to gain any wisdom or intelligence or charisma? How does that work?
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2013-02-28, 07:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Last edited by mawexzon; 2013-02-28 at 07:59 PM.
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2013-02-28, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Yeah but I still find it really odd to think of an elf that had been adventuring for 120 years from age 115 would have learned less than an orc that fought for 30 from age 15. The 235 year old elf has less world experience than the 45 year old orc? Really? The elf who has been fighting life and death battles for over a century, since before the orc's grandparents were born? He gets less of a wis/int/cha modifier?