Fairy Tail II: Second Generation Thread Slayers

[Forum Explorer]

I'm... pretty sure she is dead already. Didn't her Mark vanish or something?


@Hopeless: I couldn't recall what you were talking about but a short search reminded me. Do we know for sure how dead Jellal was? There's a big difference between only mostly dead and all dead. Or in magical suspended animation dead and got a knife in her gut dead. Or Mashima forgot about that

They vanish when they die?

[lord_khaine]

They vanish when they die?

We dont know, that would kinda require a FT member to actualy die
Also, while i suspect that the deal is she didnt have the mark at all, then we dont actualy know anything, since we newer see her right hand where the mark should have been.

Either way you look at it Rogue just attacked Lucy in front of Natsu ... the words multiple nuclear warheads being detonated doesn't pose half the threat Natsu does towards Rogue at this moment so i suspect Rogue will have more important things to worry about like avoiding being beaten senseless by an enraged Natsu!

Im still cheering at Rogue atm

@Hopeless: I couldn't recall what you were talking about but a short search reminded me. Do we know for sure how dead Jellal was? There's a big difference between only mostly dead and all dead. Or in magical suspended animation dead and got a knife in her gut dead. Or Mashima forgot about that

We know he wasnt actualy dead at the time, since they ask her to heal Jellal, and not ressurect him.

[Kato]

New chapter.

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And quite abit of stuff going on. Lucy meeting with the officials in front of Eclipse. (Maybe you should, you know, get away from the weapon you may be sabotaging by accident...)

Jellal asking the Council for... something?

The king asking the guilds for help. That was actually pretty nice, also how we got to see all of them interact. Like how Orga (I keep thinking his name is Orca) and Rufus seem to be decent chaps in fact). I was going to complain about where the king was the whole tournament but Hiro did a nice twist on that in the end.

And next time it's Natsu vs Rogue. I'm sure that'll be interesting.

And I know it came up way earlier but I feel much more supportive of the idea someone (Rogue?) will corrupt Eclipse to use it as a time portal for the dragons of the past to arrive.

[Olinser]

New chapter.

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And quite abit of stuff going on. Lucy meeting with the officials in front of Eclipse. (Maybe you should, you know, get away from the weapon you may be sabotaging by accident...)

Jellal asking the Council for... something?

The king asking the guilds for help. That was actually pretty nice, also how we got to see all of them interact. Like how Orga (I keep thinking his name is Orca) and Rufus seem to be decent chaps in fact). I was going to complain about where the king was the whole tournament but Hiro did a nice twist on that in the end.

And next time it's Natsu vs Rogue. I'm sure that'll be interesting.

And I know it came up way earlier but I feel much more supportive of the idea someone (Rogue?) will corrupt Eclipse to use it as a time portal for the dragons of the past to arrive.

Well at this point I think it's a pretty safe bet that Eclipse does NOT just fire a burst of energy.

The time portal is definitely a possibility - and would explain why every dragon suddenly disappeared on the same date, and Lucy already shows that it can function as a time portal.

The only problem I see is that we have been shown a couple splash panels of Igneel still kicking around SOMEWHERE in the world.

The other possibility is that it is a big Resurrection device - and it resurrects every dragon in that massive boneyard we saw.

Also, somebody in the room with the Eclipse is almost certainly a traitor - I'm thinking the princess. Seriously, who orders EXECUTIONS based on the unverified word of somebody that claims they're from the future?

I say this because there is no way that !FutureSting could have actually used the Eclipse by himself - with it sucking up all magic.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I'm trying to remember isn't 10,000 in Japanese one of those numbers that really means "beyond count" or whatever.

[LaZodiac]

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And I know it came up way earlier but I feel much more supportive of the idea someone (Rogue?) will corrupt Eclipse to use it as a time portal for the dragons of the past to arrive.

That was me, and I'm totally calling it. Next chapter dragons start pouring the heck out of that door.

Also, concerning those scenes with Igneel, although I forget them, who SAYS that they have to taken place in this time period?

Oh, also, the idea that the Eclipse might resurrect the dragons in the graveyard is also a VERY good idea. I'm only 50% confident in the time gate dragon teleportation theory I've got, thanks to this theory

[Soras Teva Gee]

Well if it say summons all the dragons from across time and space that would arguably be both.

The dragons in the graveyard resurrect because they never died in the past.

We don't know what kind of effect time travel allows in the FT'verse right now.

[Olinser]

Well if it say summons all the dragons from across time and space that would arguably be both.

The dragons in the graveyard resurrect because they never died in the past.

We don't know what kind of effect time travel allows in the FT'verse right now.

Yes, but we can eliminate a couple of the ones already proven to not have happened.

Ok, bear with me, time travel discussion gets complicated.

It is obviously POSSIBLE to change the past, by virtue of Future Lucy not remembering an encounter with her own Future Self (and not knowing about Future Rogue, who present Lucy has obviously now seen kill... herself). Thus, we are in a different past than Future Lucy remembers, which will have a different future. We are clearly not in an 'I already went back and changed it, and we're in the only timeline that exists' version.

Thus it is possible to change the past by time traveling. What happens in the CURRENT timeline after a traveler goes back is up for debate.

However, summoning dragons from the past leads to a headache-inducing paradox:

Because this would lead to a situation where in the Bad Future, they summoned the dragons from the past. BUT if they succeed in thwarting the Eclipse plot, that means the dragons are never summoned. But.... they're already gone from the past, having been summoned to the future.

This leads me to believe that the Eclipse is NOT going to bring dragons from the past.

However, I do agree that it has to do SOMETHING major with the dragons. If they were hell-bent on conquering humanity, they could have done so long before now with no problems. The Eclipse obviously augments their numbers somehow - resurrection is the most likely (but it could arguably bring them FROM THE FUTURE!!)



Unless, of course, we are operating under multiple concurrent timelines existing at the same time.... then it is possible that Future Lucy came back from Bad Future, was successful in thwarting the Eclipse plot, but then Future Rogue came back from a DIFFERENT future (Good Future), to try and thwart Future Lucy's thwarting of the original Bad Future.

Confused yet?

[Soras Teva Gee]

However, summoning dragons from the past leads to a headache-inducing paradox:

Yeah but parodox is nominally an external situation, I've noticed Japan has something of a higher tolerance for stated odd conditions without as much "how" to it all.

We've already seen with Ultear a tolerance on Hiro's part for letting things just unhappen which makes no sense from a broad causality perspective. That's already arguably far more impossible then time travel which can still preserve causality (just not linear causality and is still loosely possible for this scenario if say Future!Lucy was just playing a role/ faking it /etc. Though if Future!Rogue is also telling the truth then its quite the downer ending.

I'm not making any assumptions one way or the other. I lean to this being a ripple effect proof scenario where the future/past are mutable and you have eventual "timeline orphans" from the characters needed to make changes for the story.

[Olinser]

Yeah but parodox is nominally an external situation, I've noticed Japan has something of a higher tolerance for stated odd conditions without as much "how" to it all.

We've already seen with Ultear a tolerance on Hiro's part for letting things just unhappen which makes no sense from a broad causality perspective. That's already arguably far more impossible then time travel which can still preserve causality (just not linear causality and is still loosely possible for this scenario if say Future!Lucy was just playing a role/ faking it /etc. Though if Future!Rogue is also telling the truth then its quite the downer ending.

I'm not making any assumptions one way or the other. I lean to this being a ripple effect proof scenario where the future/past are mutable and you have eventual "timeline orphans" from the characters needed to make changes for the story.

It could be - but that still doesn't answer the question of what exactly happened to all the dragons from the past that got summoned to the future (IF that is how Eclipse functions). Timeline orphans is one thing, but now we're talking about literally thousands of dragons being marooned in a timeline that no longer exists.

[LaZodiac]

It could be - but that still doesn't answer the question of what exactly happened to all the dragons from the past that got summoned to the future (IF that is how Eclipse functions). Timeline orphans is one thing, but now we're talking about literally thousands of dragons being marooned in a timeline that no longer exists.

Perhaps the Eclipse being shut down before it teleports the dragons is what kills them in the past?

[lord_khaine]

No, i dont belive the time traveling dragon theory either, its just to crazy.

Its much more reasonable for them to have slept underground, or on the moon for that matter.

[Fiery Diamond]

Unless, of course, we are operating under multiple concurrent timelines existing at the same time.... then it is possible that Future Lucy came back from Bad Future, was successful in thwarting the Eclipse plot, but then Future Rogue came back from a DIFFERENT future (Good Future), to try and thwart Future Lucy's thwarting of the original Bad Future.

Confused yet?

This is my current impression.

[Kato]

I don't like the resurrection theory. Probably merely because I consider it a way too cheap way to bring dead beings back to life.

I guess if we knew anything about where the dragons are - where that one scene took place, especially - we could make better guesses. If they in fact are just in another realm, like Edolas, it's likely the Gate will merely be opened there.
Also, we have little idea how many dragons vanished 14 years ago, maybe those were the 10.000 who will return...

The problem with the time travel is... well, not to be ignored but I'd not be surprised if we just get multiple timelines or the matter is never touched upon. This isn't hard SciFi.

[Hopeless]

I have an odd question to ask...

What if Rogue and Sting being merged wasn't an isolated incident?

What if Lucy and Yukina were also merged which is why Future Lucy doesn't have the Fairy Tail brand because Yukina doesn't?

Go with me here whose personality does Future Lucy most resemble?

I think Future Lucy sacrificed herself for Lucy because she was actually Yukina in Lucy's form and Rogue either doesn't know what happened or hasn't questioned why if he and Sting have merged what makes him think they were the only ones to do so?

Could that be part of the cost for using the Eclipse door?

I think someone(s) going to have go through the Eclipse to wherever those dragons are coming from to seal it from the otherside and since Zeref has apparently already met Natsu he's one of those going to be stuck 4 centuries in the past and I think Lumien Histoire will play a part either resolving how the timelost group gets back and why Igneel and the others have been preparing their "kids" for this festival since they evidently knew what was going to happen and why Lucy's mum died at the same time they disappeared...

Maybe going too far there!

[LaZodiac]

That's an interesting theory, but I don't think Natsu will be going to the past.

I THINK, atleast, that the Dragon Slayer's have fake memories. They were not actually "raised", persay, by their dragons. They are, infact, the reincarnation in human form OF their dragons. That's why Zereff would know "Natsu". He recognizes Igneel from back when they were dragons.

It's just a little theory I had. It's kinda thrown for a loop with Sting and Rogue, having "killed" their dragons, but I think that that's just mind trickery. They think they killed their dragons.

[Kato]

Uhm... then what about the scene with Igneel and Grandine way back in... I don't know. And it's kind of thrown off with there being a Wendy and Grandine in Edolas. Or how Third Gen Dragon Slayers have the training and the... essence (Lacrima?) of their dragons and the first generation not.
Yeah, the reincarnation theory I think is kind of popular and I see where it's coming from but I don't think it's true.

As for Hopeless' theory... Future!Rogue being a merged being is just WMG at this point because he has the black and white look. Going from that to Future!Lucy isn't Lucy feels far fetched to me as well.

But to add my own crazy thoughts to the bunch: What if Zeref is a time traveler as well and he possibly traveled more than once, which is why Jellal felt the same magic from him as from Future!Lucy. We have no idea what he has been doing between 400(?) years ago and Tenryu, but if he comes from even further in the future and met Natsu then instead of in the past it would rule out the theories about Natsu being around 400 years ago. (Yeah, I know, Natsu being older than he looks stems (also) from the age runes way back, I'm just throwing around ideas) So... maybe Zeref is like the Doctor of Fairy Tail? Or any other time traveler with a convoluted personal timeline.

[LaZodiac]

Uhm... then what about the scene with Igneel and Grandine way back in... I don't know. And it's kind of thrown off with there being a Wendy and Grandine in Edolas. Or how Third Gen Dragon Slayers have the training and the... essence (Lacrima?) of their dragons and the first generation not.
Yeah, the reincarnation theory I think is kind of popular and I see where it's coming from but I don't think it's true.

Edolas runs off different logic. Since the Edolas equivilents of the Dragon Slayers don't use dragon slayer magic, they aren't the dragons.

My guess is that third gen dragon slayers are just Dragon Slayers who have, though not consciously, learned to tap more into their latent dragon powers, and thus can dragonforce on command.

[Fiery Diamond]

Change of topic: What's this I'm seeing about this last episode being the final episode of the anime?!

[Kato]

Change of topic: What's this I'm seeing about this last episode being the final episode of the anime?!

The anime got cancelled... for reasons. It's as far as I know unclear if they merely will get a new time slot in the future (I heard a few rumors about June) or if it is cancelled for good.
If it was stopped because it was getting to close to the manga it will probably resume soon, if it was due to lack of ratings it might take a while.

[Olinser]

The anime got cancelled... for reasons. It's as far as I know unclear if they merely will get a new time slot in the future (I heard a few rumors about June) or if it is cancelled for good.
If it was stopped because it was getting to close to the manga it will probably resume soon, if it was due to lack of ratings it might take a while.

They did the same thing with Bleach a few months ago.

Basically, because in general (especially for huge manga sellers), the quality of filler episodes and arcs is significantly lower, and ratings take a BIG drop when a series goes to filler, they are now trying simply putting series on hiatus to let the manga get back ahead.

Bleach just started back up again after a 4 or 5 month break, and given Fairy Tail's popularity I think the anime will continue again.

[LaZodiac]

They did the same thing with Bleach a few months ago.

Basically, because in general (especially for huge manga sellers), the quality of filler episodes and arcs is significantly lower, and ratings take a BIG drop when a series goes to filler, they are now trying simply putting series on hiatus to let the manga get back ahead.

Bleach just started back up again after a 4 or 5 month break, and given Fairy Tail's popularity I think the anime will continue again.

Wait what? No, no. Bleach's anime can't be back. That'd ruin one of my favorite parts about Bleach, one of my most favorite jokes, that the anime got canceled and replaced by the Chibi Rock Lee spin off parody of Naruto. Please say it isn't so!

[Olinser]

Wait what? No, no. Bleach's anime can't be back. That'd ruin one of my favorite parts about Bleach, one of my most favorite jokes, that the anime got canceled and replaced by the Chibi Rock Lee spin off parody of Naruto. Please say it isn't so!

Actually it appears that I was in error - the anime did not restart quite yet, but there is a fairly big push to finish it off. Kubo Tite (the author) has stated that he wants the anime to finish the story.

The manga is only about 60 chapters ahead of where the anime ended, I think they may have delayed it further.

Bleach's biggest failing was that they went too fast. Somebody sat down and figured it out - the anime was 366 episodes long.

166 episodes of that were filler.

That is mind-boggling. Nearly HALF of the series was filler.

[LaZodiac]

Actually it appears that I was in error - the anime did not restart quite yet, but there is a fairly big push to finish it off. Kubo Tite (the author) has stated that he wants the anime to finish the story.

The manga is only about 60 chapters ahead of where the anime ended, I think they may have delayed it further.

Bleach's biggest failing was that they went too fast. Somebody sat down and figured it out - the anime was 366 episodes long.

166 episodes of that were filler.

That is mind-boggling. Nearly HALF of the series was filler.

Well to be fair, look at the Naruto anime. It's arguably got it worse! Though, after Shippuden, I still contest that it now does filler correctly. Instead of being one off episodes or non canon arcs, it's just extensions of the plot and actually canon stuff.

[Olinser]

Well to be fair, look at the Naruto anime. It's arguably got it worse! Though, after Shippuden, I still contest that it now does filler correctly. Instead of being one off episodes or non canon arcs, it's just extensions of the plot and actually canon stuff.

Even with the massive filler finishing off vanilla Naruto, they were only 89 of 220 episodes filler. (and 77 of those episodes were all in one big block at the end of the Genin period before they transitioned past the timeskip).

Shippuden so far is 111 out of 306 episodes filler.

So that is only 190 out of 526 episodes of filler.

Which means that even with its infamous 77 episodes of Filler at the end, they still have about the same amount of filler as Bleach (190 vs 166), and Naruto has 160 more total episodes!

[lord_khaine]

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So, future Rogue actualy manage to stomp Natsu into the ground, even after having killed Lucy in front of him.
My interest in this arc is starting to rise again.

And it does look like that portal is where the Dragons have been hiding all this time, though we cant tell where it leads to yet.

[jindra34]

New Chapter.

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Right, so now both sides of this fight have dual-element DS modes. And damn Rogue was mean in how he got his. And Ultear comes in for a partial save. And something crazy is up with Lucy.

[Kato]

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So, future Rogue actualy manage to stomp Natsu into the ground, even after having killed Lucy in front of him.
My interest in this arc is starting to rise again.

I'm sure Natsu was just about to have his comeback

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So, no merged Rogue!Sting. And not... whatever made Natsu able to use Fire/Lightning at will. I guess he stole his Lacrima or... something? Dragon Slayers aren't exactly Megaman so just killing Sting would have probably not done the job.

And Lucy... I have no idea and I hope whatever Hiro's idea is it is good.

[lord_khaine]

I'm sure Natsu was just about to have his comeback

Yeah, though the floor

[Olinser]

I'm sure Natsu was just about to have his comeback

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So, no merged Rogue!Sting. And not... whatever made Natsu able to use Fire/Lightning at will. I guess he stole his Lacrima or... something? Dragon Slayers aren't exactly Megaman so just killing Sting would have probably not done the job.

And Lucy... I have no idea and I hope whatever Hiro's idea is it is good.

Who says? We haven't actually seen a Dragon Slayer die yet - who KNOWS what happens?