Fairy Tail II: Second Generation Thread Slayers

[Olinser]

New Chapter.

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Right, so now both sides of this fight have dual-element DS modes. And damn Rogue was mean in how he got his. And Ultear comes in for a partial save. And something crazy is up with Lucy.

If by 'something crazy' you mean, 'only sane person there', then sure.

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Let's count the stupidity (or outright maliciousness) of opening the Eclipse:

1) They began gathering magic power for it YEARS ago. Call me crazy.... but even if you could try to pin it on FutureRogue or FutureLucy - THEY DIDN'T GO BACK THAT FAR. So SOMEBODY was powering Eclipse for a different purpose.

2) The princess (or minister, or whatshisname with the big nose and the armor, whichever you think is actually the evil plotter) ordered the execution of people not guilty of any crime (Natsu and his friends) based on the totally unverified word of somebody claiming to be from the future. Excuse much?

3) You do not prepare to fire a massive, potentially world-destroying weapon WHEN YOU CAN'T SEE WHAT YOU ARE SHOOTING AT. The Eclipse is charged. It looks like it took what... a minute or so to open? The only way that it would NOT be able to fire would be if dragons somehow knew about it and snuck in close enough to be able to instantly neutralize it. That requires them to have both knowledge that the Eclipse is ready, knowing the exact location, and how to neutralize it. Likelihood of that? Almost zero.

[jindra34]

If by 'something crazy' you mean, 'only sane person there', then sure.

Something crazy, as in I'm not sure that she is in control of herself.

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Not she goes from saying yes, to walking forward and saying no. Plus those eyes look close to the standard mind controlled eyes. And the weird declarative statements.

[Olinser]

Something crazy, as in I'm not sure that she is in control of herself.

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Not she goes from saying yes, to walking forward and saying no. Plus those eyes look close to the standard mind controlled eyes. And the weird declarative statements.

Read the spoiler tag below my post. Those are just Lucy's normal eyes. The 'No' is because she suddenly realized what everybody reading it realized months ago - that the whole 'Eclipse will save us from the dragons' is total bull$%@^

[jindra34]

Read the spoiler tag below my post. Those are just Lucy's normal eyes. The 'No' is because she suddenly realized what everybody reading it realized months ago - that the whole 'Eclipse will save us from the dragons' is total bull$%@^

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on the last page there is no white or glint in the iris's, which were present at the start of the prior page. Compare them on page 4 to the last page, they go from having some definition to just flat black.

And yeah I read your thing, but don't you think it would be possible to better vocalize that? As opposed to the sudden flip?

[LaZodiac]

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So, future Rogue actualy manage to stomp Natsu into the ground, even after having killed Lucy in front of him.
My interest in this arc is starting to rise again.

And it does look like that portal is where the Dragons have been hiding all this time, though we cant tell where it leads to yet.

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I've been bitten to many times to get my hopes up, but I'm very slightly more optimistic.

I'm sure Natsu was just about to have his comeback

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So, no merged Rogue!Sting. And not... whatever made Natsu able to use Fire/Lightning at will. I guess he stole his Lacrima or... something? Dragon Slayers aren't exactly Megaman so just killing Sting would have probably not done the job.

And Lucy... I have no idea and I hope whatever Hiro's idea is it is good.

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Well, and here's the thing, we know that eating the flame of another dragon lets you duel boot your system, as it where. So...maybe that means Rogue killed Sting and then...ATE him.

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on the last page there is no white or glint in the iris's, which were present at the start of the prior page. Compare them on page 4 to the last page, they go from having some definition to just flat black.

And yeah I read your thing, but don't you think it would be possible to better vocalize that? As opposed to the sudden flip?

There's always the possibility that the negative affect Eclipse will have just very suddenly hit her, thus explaining the sudden flip.

I do think she may be under some sort of mind control, but we'll see.

[Kato]

If by 'something crazy' you mean, 'only sane person there', then sure.

The realization would come much too sudden and mostly out of nowhere. Also, it might be unintentional but as jindra described, something is different with her eyes which is usually meaning mind control.
And, while all these points are legit reasons to doubt the Eclipse plan it doesn't mean the characters can't just be stupid.

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Well, and here's the thing, we know that eating the flame of another dragon lets you duel boot your system, as it where. So...maybe that means Rogue killed Sting and then...ATE him.

Well... that's pretty dark. Not impossible but... dark.
Also, unlikely in FT.

[lord_khaine]

Lucy might not be completely in control of herself, this would tie in with her future self not remembering doing anything to the door.

I still think the door needs to be closed ASAP though, before dragons begin pouring out though it.

[INoKnowNames]

Um... should I be confused right now?

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I genuinely had no idea that Future Rogue was Evil until he noted he killed Sting. Should I have known before that?

I'm honestly kinda confused as to what he's doing there at all, since it seems like Lucy would be more stopable by her comrades trying to stop her, and her future self trying to stop her, than by getting them to defend her...

And at the end, I'll throw in my vote that she's totally got Mind Control Eyes. If she did do anything, it doesn't seem like it was her fault...

[LaZodiac]

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Yes, he IS supposed to be evil. Or rather, we're supposed to assume he is. He clearly looks evil, he killed Future!Lucy, and he ate his best friend. Also, while in his shadow form, he was controlling Present!Rogue to make him more maliciousand evil during the fight with Gajeel.

[Kato]

I still think the door needs to be closed ASAP though, before dragons begin pouring out though it.

Of course, IF LUcy closed the door - and Rogue seems pretty convinced - you'd wonder why there are dragons if opening the door causes the dragons to appear...

I genuinely had no idea that Future Rogue was Evil until he noted he killed Sting. Should I have known before that?

I'm honestly kinda confused as to what he's doing there at all, since it seems like Lucy would be more stopable by her comrades trying to stop her, and her future self trying to stop her, than by getting them to defend her...

Well, trying to kill a main character (or their future self) usually means "bad guy" even if they have their reasons. Also, he was way too edgy and didn't talk about friendship

Rogue's course of action being not very smart has already been noticed... Either he really is even more evil then reckless in his endeavors or he's just stupid for the sake of drama.

[Olinser]

Of course, IF LUcy closed the door - and Rogue seems pretty convinced - you'd wonder why there are dragons if opening the door causes the dragons to appear...


Well, trying to kill a main character (or their future self) usually means "bad guy" even if they have their reasons. Also, he was way too edgy and didn't talk about friendship

Rogue's course of action being not very smart has already been noticed... Either he really is even more evil then reckless in his endeavors or he's just stupid for the sake of drama.

Well, not necessarily. Laxus, Jelal (or however they're spelling his name these days) and Gajeel all tried to kill Natsu at different points in the manga.

He also could be engaged in some kind of distraction gambit - if Natsu successfully thwarted the future he's trying to bring about last time, then he has to keep him away this time. Killing is a bonus, but not required.

[lord_khaine]

Of course, IF LUcy closed the door - and Rogue seems pretty convinced - you'd wonder why there are dragons if opening the door causes the dragons to appear...

huh ?

[Kato]

Well, not necessarily. Laxus, Jelal (or however they're spelling his name these days) and Gajeel all tried to kill Natsu at different points in the manga.

Well, I guess Laxus was never really trying to kill him (what with being a good guy at heart all the time etc) and Jellal was mind controlled and Gajeel... yeah, he was a mean bastard. But he got better. I was more trying to be humorous but still, killing in FT (and nine out of ten other Shonen) makes you at least somewhat a bad guy.

He also could be engaged in some kind of distraction gambit - if Natsu successfully thwarted the future he's trying to bring about last time, then he has to keep him away this time. Killing is a bonus, but not required.

Well... I guess that kind of makes sense.

huh ?

Sorry, I think I got my tenses a bit mixed up there. My reasoning goes like this: If the dragons appeared, even though Lucy closed the door, yet Rogue wants to stop the dragons (and to that end stop Lucy from closing the door) it means the dragons can not come from the door because if Lucy closed the door in that time line there would be no dragons because the door wasn't opened (properly). Unless Rogue is lying or wrong or whatever,, thousand reasons. But according to the stuff I assume as most likely on a totally biased basis.

[Olinser]

Well, I guess Laxus was never really trying to kill him (what with being a good guy at heart all the time etc) and Jellal was mind controlled and Gajeel... yeah, he was a mean bastard. But he got better. I was more trying to be humorous but still, killing in FT (and nine out of ten other Shonen) makes you at least somewhat a bad guy.


Well... I guess that kind of makes sense.


Sorry, I think I got my tenses a bit mixed up there. My reasoning goes like this: If the dragons appeared, even though Lucy closed the door, yet Rogue wants to stop the dragons (and to that end stop Lucy from closing the door) it means the dragons can not come from the door because if Lucy closed the door in that time line there would be no dragons because the door wasn't opened (properly). Unless Rogue is lying or wrong or whatever,, thousand reasons. But according to the stuff I assume as most likely on a totally biased basis.

Heh heh, time travel tenses are fun.

Remember - He killed you tomorrow when you will be walking your dog.

Or - he went to the past tomorrow.

[INoKnowNames]

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Yes, he IS supposed to be evil. Or rather, we're supposed to assume he is. He clearly looks evil, he killed Future!Lucy, and he ate his best friend. Also, while in his shadow form, he was controlling Present!Rogue to make him more maliciousand evil during the fight with Gajeel.

.... I didn't realize that last part.

Wait....

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Gajeel pwned Rogue Squared. Why did Natsu just get his butt handed to him? Natsu pwned Gajeel in 1 combo.... is it like Rock Paper Scissors?

Of course, IF LUcy closed the door - and Rogue seems pretty convinced - you'd wonder why there are dragons if opening the door causes the dragons to appear...

....

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I thought it was Opening the Door got rid of Dragons, but Lucy closed the Door, so Rogue has to kill her to stop her from closing the door....

Well, trying to kill a main character (or their future self) usually means "bad guy" even if they have their reasons.

I dunno, Silver the Hedgehog wasn't bad. Just in a bad game.

Also, he was way too edgy and didn't talk about friendship

.... Dang it, I can't even -see- the word Friendship without imagining ponies anymore.

Rogue's course of action being not very smart has already been noticed... Either he really is even more evil then reckless in his endeavors or he's just stupid for the sake of drama.

Hm... anyone have a betting pool on which way it might go?

[Fiery Diamond]

.... I didn't realize that last part.

Wait....

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Gajeel pwned Rogue Squared. Why did Natsu just get his butt handed to him? Natsu pwned Gajeel in 1 combo.... is it like Rock Paper Scissors?

I didn't realize that either, but it makes PERFECT sense.

Also, there are probably two reasons regarding your question:

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Future!Rogue controlled Present!Rogue, creating the entity I'll call Controlled!Rogue. Controlled!Rogue is clearly more powerful than present Rogue but less powerful than Future!Rogue.

My two reasons:
1) Future!Rogue's ability to control Present!Rogue (and thus what Controlled!Rogue's power level is) is limited by Present!Rogue's current potential.
2) Future!Rogue didn't actually started pwning Natsu until he went dual-element - DualElement!Natsu is probably stronger than SingleElement!Future!Rogue. Gajeel was also getting his tush kicked by Controlled!Rogue until he ate the shadows and became DualElement!Gajeel.

Also, I'm thinking some form of mind control for Lucy as well, but it is possible that she's just had a sudden realization. I can't remember for sure, but I think there was a previous case where Lucy went all blank-eyed like that out of shock, rather than her normal shocked expression.

[Kato]

.... I didn't realize that last part.

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Well, Zodiac is kind of stating theories for facts there... While the last part seems kind of reasonable (I'd still not be entirely sure on it) I think especially the cannibalism is merely her head canon

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I thought it was Opening the Door got rid of Dragons, but Lucy closed the Door, so Rogue has to kill her to stop her from closing the door....

Nut khaine was referring to the popular theory that Eclipse itself somehow summons the dragons and I was discussing it from that angle.

.... Dang it, I can't even -see- the word Friendship without imagining ponies anymore.

Maybe it's my avatar? An overdose of FT and OP can help you think of mage/pirate ponies instead if that's any better.

[lord_khaine]

Sorry, I think I got my tenses a bit mixed up there. My reasoning goes like this: If the dragons appeared, even though Lucy closed the door, yet Rogue wants to stop the dragons (and to that end stop Lucy from closing the door) it means the dragons can not come from the door because if Lucy closed the door in that time line there would be no dragons because the door wasn't opened (properly). Unless Rogue is lying or wrong or whatever,, thousand reasons. But according to the stuff I assume as most likely on a totally biased basis.

Yeah, it becomes a total mess if the door pulls the dragons in from the past, if on the other hand they are just hiding on another world, then it will suddenly make a lot more sense.

[Hopeless]

What do we know?

Future Lucy doesn't have the Fairy Tail guild mark she's also reduced to tears by whatever happened and isn't aware she sealed the gate behind her when she and Rogue-Sting travelled into the past...

I figure Rogue-Sting needs to kill Lucy because opening that gate isn't to wipe out the dragons but prevent their extinction in the past and the second eclipse gate is the dud we know the first works but I believe they said they needed celestial wizards to open it and there are only two who between them have all of the Zodiac keys neecessary to open that gate.

I suspect Yukina died so the only wizard Rogue-Sting knew that was still alive in his time is Lucy I suspect something happened to remove her spirits or magic when they travelled into the past and thats why he didn't bother with Future Lucy it was Present Lucy he needs to kill and what I suspect is that she'll be sent back to when her mother was still alive and we learn why her mother died which should involve Lucy getting back to her own time and allowing her to say goodbye to her parents...

I don't know for sure so I won't spoiler this but please pick holes in this theory!

[Kato]

What if Eclipse summoned those dragons from any point in time and the second merely sent them back rather than destroyed them creating a reality where dragons still exist and the second eclipse gate was used to send someone back to prevent the original apocalypse?

This assumes Rogue Sting was sent to insure the first gate was opened and what the people aware believe is that it has already been opened when it hasn't...

Lucy in that reality wasn't a member of Fairy Tail but the paradox along with her status as a celestial wizard meant she and Yukina had to use their celestial spirits to access the gate in the future to travel back in time, Rogue Sting was sent to stop them but only killed one of them and he and Future Lucy was sent into this parallel reality where Rogue Sting is working to insure the dragons arrive as per his own reality and insure the second eclipse is used so this reality's version of Lucy and Yukina can't use it to go back in time like they did before...

He immediately attempts to kill Lucy because of this and her behaviour at the gate is because she's instinctively understands she has to close this gate before the dragons arrive.

I figure either she gets sent back in time and meets her mother learning why she died back then or that happens on the way back when she and Natsu ends up in either past or future where Natsu meets Zeref and this will eventually reveal the apocalypse dragon or whatever he's called might be Rogue Sting final form...

:bigconfused: What?


@khaine: No, the whole premise of "opening the gate calls the dragons" (from when/wherever) is flawed if Lucy did in fact close the gate AND the apocalypse happened. The three things can't all be true so one of them has to be false and if we assume Rogue & Lucy are telling the truth then Eclipse doesn't summon the dragons which means we get no twist.
I don't say it's true or even likely but unless some information from the future is wrong the gate can't summon the dragons.
(Unless - as someone suggested - Rogue's intent is to cause an even worse apocalypse because and last time due to Lucy only a few dragons appeared (10.000 being a few) and Rogue is planning to summon even more dragons because ?????)

[Hopeless]

:bigconfused: What?
@khaine: No, the whole premise of "opening the gate calls the dragons" (from when/wherever) is flawed if Lucy did in fact close the gate AND the apocalypse happened. The three things can't all be true so one of them has to be false and if we assume Rogue & Lucy are telling the truth then Eclipse doesn't summon the dragons which means we get no twist.
I don't say it's true or even likely but unless some information from the future is wrong the gate can't summon the dragons.
(Unless - as someone suggested - Rogue's intent is to cause an even worse apocalypse because and last time due to Lucy only a few dragons appeared (10.000 being a few) and Rogue is planning to summon even more dragons because ?????)

Sorry reread what I typed and then retyped trying to make sense of what I was thinking!

I think the eclipse gate is the dragons plan to escape being wiped out in their war with the dragonslayers and rival groups and that Rogue-Sting is their agent since he and his former ally both claimed to have killed their dragon parents unlike Natsu, Gajeel and Wendy.

I suspect thats part of the explanation for the differing dragon factions with the lacrima infused dragonslayers being another faction rather than differing generations (after all we've seen Natsu eat lacrima so why not dragons?).

Yukina and Lucy are the only remaining celestial wizards I suspect Lucy lost her spirits and magic in the event (maybe because only one Lucy can have access to them and somehow that includes her guild mark) and crossing over closed the gate which is what she has to do to prevent the dragons' appearance not try to blow them up with the second gate which I think is going to strip all of the wizards present of their magic rendering them helpless...

My god that actually makes more sense!

[Forum Explorer]

I think it's a simple matter of the Eclipse Gate having a horrible effect on the Celestial World. So Lucy, as pretty much the best Celestial Mage, is very attuned to that damage and is instinctively reacting to prevent it, even at a horrible cost to her own world.

[lord_khaine]

@khaine: No, the whole premise of "opening the gate calls the dragons" (from when/wherever) is flawed if Lucy did in fact close the gate AND the apocalypse happened. The three things can't all be true so one of them has to be false and if we assume Rogue & Lucy are telling the truth then Eclipse doesn't summon the dragons which means we get no twist.
I don't say it's true or even likely but unless some information from the future is wrong the gate can't summon the dragons.
(Unless - as someone suggested - Rogue's intent is to cause an even worse apocalypse because and last time due to Lucy only a few dragons appeared (10.000 being a few) and Rogue is planning to summon even more dragons because ?????)

Well, timetraveling does make things a bit confused, but ill trust future Rogue about as far as Wendy could throw him.

But we have 2 people traveling back in time, Future Lucy who i trust is trying to prevent the apocalypse, even though she doesnt exactly know how.

And Future Rogue (FRogue for short), who i belive want the apocalypse to happen, because he is an evil bastard.
And if closing the door is going to prevent that from happening, then it suddenly makes a lot of sense for him to chase Lucy down, terminator style.

[Olinser]

:bigconfused: What?


@khaine: No, the whole premise of "opening the gate calls the dragons" (from when/wherever) is flawed if Lucy did in fact close the gate AND the apocalypse happened. The three things can't all be true so one of them has to be false and if we assume Rogue & Lucy are telling the truth then Eclipse doesn't summon the dragons which means we get no twist.
I don't say it's true or even likely but unless some information from the future is wrong the gate can't summon the dragons.
(Unless - as someone suggested - Rogue's intent is to cause an even worse apocalypse because and last time due to Lucy only a few dragons appeared (10.000 being a few) and Rogue is planning to summon even more dragons because ?????)

Exactly. Between ONE Of them, either FutureRogue and FutureLucy are lying (and they aren't necessarily from the same timeline, either). I trust FutureLucy a LOT more.

FutureRogue's plan could be an intent to become an Ancologia-style badass.

Remember, Ancologia was originally human, but he absorbed so many dragon powers he finally became a dragon.

FutureRogue may have found that out... but FutureLucy closing Eclipse before it could revive all the dragons spoiled his plans.

So his only recourse is to attempt to go back in time and bring about the dragon apocalypse so he can start hunting.

[INoKnowNames]

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Well, Zodiac is kind of stating theories for facts there... While the last part seems kind of reasonable (I'd still not be entirely sure on it) I think especially the cannibalism is merely her head canon

Oh, that answers a few questions. Darn it, Zodiac! Stop confusing me with your head-cannon!

Nut khaine was referring to the popular theory that Eclipse itself somehow summons the dragons and I was discussing it from that angle.

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Conspiracy Theories

I bet he's already got this all figured out, but is specifically making it as confusing as possible to mess with the fan base... It's beating the heck out of me just to think about it!

Maybe it's my avatar? An overdose of FT and OP can help you think of mage/pirate ponies instead if that's any better.

Nah, it's Friendship in general. Heck, I can barely say "Friendship i" without finishing it with "s Magic". And Ninja Mage Pirate Ponies, while inherently cool, doesn't change the situation much.

[Kato]

Exactly. Between ONE Of them, either FutureRogue and FutureLucy are lying (and they aren't necessarily from the same timeline, either). I trust FutureLucy a LOT more.

Sorry, but there is still the solution that both are telling the truth and Eclipse is not responsible for summoning the dragons. This means we don't get a twist but it's still a legit possibility.
(As in: Lucy is mind controlled (thus no memory) into stopping Eclipse which could have destroyed the dragons appearing because ???? and Lucy has no memory of it and Rogue is willing to do anything (stupid and violent) to stop her from stopping Eclipse.)

By this point I have no idea which is to happen, but I would like to believe both are telling the truth from their point of view. (Yeah, I'm a naive child, I know)

[LaZodiac]

I still feel Future Lucy might actually be evil. Something feels off about her.

[INoKnowNames]

I still feel Future Lucy might actually be evil. Something feels off about her.

.... you -have- to be looking to troll!

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How can she be evil now that she's dead, having died trying to protect the future and such!?! Maybe as a zombie...

[LaZodiac]

.... you -have- to be looking to troll!

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How can she be evil now that she's dead, having died trying to protect the future and such!?! Maybe as a zombie...

A possible theory!

Future Lucy and Roguesting are on the same side, and they faked her death to distract the heroes from the true goal.

Second theory!

Roguesting is actually a good guy because Lucy is slowly getting tainted by Zeref's magic, thus why she gave off that feeling to Jerrard.

These are of course just theories.

[thethird]

So... new chapter, most people saw that coming (i guess).