Fairy Tail II: Second Generation Thread Slayers

[Olinser]

It makes sense to me. An entirely unique and special magic had to be invented just to fight dragons because literally everything else did practically no damage. Or dragon slaying magic is particularly powerful against dragons and everyone else is too weak to hurt them. Either way dragons are awesome.

I believe the major objection is that dragon slaying magic appears to have to be taught BY a dragon.

So they are invincible, unless they're dumb enough to teach you how to kill them.

[Tebryn]

Well, we know little about dragon slaying magic and so far it seemes more like "element x themed attack because they were taught by dragon of element x" and thus it would make sense if they are fighting a dragon of that specific element. But against any random dragon? Why would Natsu's fire skills be useful against any earth dragon, just because they were taught by a dragon?

We also know that it was developed during the Dragon Civil War by Dragons who wanted to live with the other species as a way to beat the Dragons who didn't. The mages started slaughtering all the dragons with their magic and that's where Dragon Slayer Magic came from. Seems to me it's pretty good at doing what it says on the tin.

[Forum Explorer]

I believe the major objection is that dragon slaying magic appears to have to be taught BY a dragon.

So they are invincible, unless they're dumb enough to teach you how to kill them.

What about Type 2 dragon slayers? They weren't trained by dragons.

So I view it's more as invented by dragons, in order to fight dragons, but humans can use it.

[LaZodiac]

What about Type 2 dragon slayers? They weren't trained by dragons.

So I view it's more as invented by dragons, in order to fight dragons, but humans can use it.

Type 2's ate Lacrima that give them dragon souls. My personal opinion is that Type 2's are guys who've been fed the remains of dragons, thus imprinting the magic onto their soul or something.

[lord_khaine]

It makes sense to me. An entirely unique and special magic had to be invented just to fight dragons because literally everything else did practically no damage. Or dragon slaying magic is particularly powerful against dragons and everyone else is too weak to hurt them. Either way dragons are awesome.

Its just to stupidly effektive, when all of FT can pling away on a dragon doing nothing, before Natsu then drops one from the sky with a singel punch.

And its especaly stupid because DS magic before that hasnt shown itself to be unusualy effective in penetrating magical defenses before that.

Type 2's ate Lacrima that give them dragon souls. My personal opinion is that Type 2's are guys who've been fed the remains of dragons, thus imprinting the magic onto their soul or something.

No, we have been told that type 2 DS's have a special type of Lacrima placed inside them surgicaly, and thats about all we know on that subject.

[Kato]

We also know that it was developed during the Dragon Civil War by Dragons who wanted to live with the other species as a way to beat the Dragons who didn't. The mages started slaughtering all the dragons with their magic and that's where Dragon Slayer Magic came from. Seems to me it's pretty good at doing what it says on the tin.

Okay, I guess from that perspective it does make sense.

I'll agree this doesn't quite make sense with the 2nd Gen though, unless Dragon Magic itself is just effective against other dragons.


As for Zeref and Acnologia... Thinking back I don't know how I got to the conclusion but I kind of assumed Zeref was Acnologia's DS (Kind of Death elemental or something) but it doesn't quite make sense. I guess one could assume a whole lot of things about the two but I'm pretty sure there is some definite connection between them. Zeref being Acnologia... possible. But I won't put much money onto it yet.

[LaZodiac]

No, we have been told that type 2 DS's have a special type of Lacrima placed inside them surgicaly, and thats about all we know on that subject.

Yha, I know. I'm speculating that those lacrima are actually the souls of that dragon.

[lord_khaine]

I'll agree this doesn't quite make sense with the 2nd Gen though, unless Dragon Magic itself is just effective against other dragons.

I cant see what isnt making sense here, the only difference between generation 1 and 2 (as far as we know), is where they learned the magic.

Yha, I know. I'm speculating that those lacrima are actually the souls of that dragon.

Sounds a bit unnececary, considering that the first Dragon Slayers were just regular humans who were taught by dragons.

[LaZodiac]

Sounds a bit unnececary, considering that the first Dragon Slayers were just regular humans who were taught by dragons.

I feel like something is missing in the history. We know that bathing in the blood of dragons makes a Dragon Slayer powerful. We know that all the dragons disappeared at around the same time.

This is all basically leading to my theory that the Dragon Slayers are, infact, reincarnations OF the dragons that taught them or something along those lines.

[Olinser]

I feel like something is missing in the history. We know that bathing in the blood of dragons makes a Dragon Slayer powerful. We know that all the dragons disappeared at around the same time.

This is all basically leading to my theory that the Dragon Slayers are, infact, reincarnations OF the dragons that taught them or something along those lines.

Well we now have 3 different flashbacks of Dragon Slayers sitting and interacting with their Dragons - Natsu and Igneel, Wendy and Grandia, and now Sting with whatshisface.

Since Sting's dragon point-blank asked him to finish him off, they were alive at the same time, and he can't be the reincarnation of the dragon.

[LaZodiac]

Well we now have 3 different flashbacks of Dragon Slayers sitting and interacting with their Dragons - Natsu and Igneel, Wendy and Grandia, and now Sting with whatshisface.

Since Sting's dragon point-blank asked him to finish him off, they were alive at the same time, and he can't be the reincarnation of the dragon.

I did say "something along those lines". Maybe after the training is complete they have to kill the dragon, and that absorbs the dragon's soul into them, and only by remembering that you've done this can you become a "type 3".

Alternatively those are false memories. Like I said, this theory is open to change, at it's base it's just "the dragons live on in the Dragon Slayers in some way"

[Kato]

I cant see what isnt making sense here, the only difference between generation 1 and 2 (as far as we know), is where they learned the magic.

Nah, there's another difference. 1st gen were taught the magic, 2nd gen weren't taught anything. At bet they absorbed the magic from the dragons but the dragons couldn't teach them anything. So they have "dragon magic" but not "dragon slayer magic" from my point of view. The closest they could get to being "dragon slayers" was if they slaughtered the dragons themselves but iirc they just got the lacrima from dead dragons.

Alternatively those are false memories. Like I said, this theory is open to change, at it's base it's just "the dragons live on in the Dragon Slayers in some way"

Please don't get me wrong but it's kind of cute how you stick to the theory no matter what. (And yeah, I'm well aware how this will come back to bite me when you're proven right and I'm proven wrong. Again)

[Fiery Diamond]

Nah, there's another difference. 1st gen were taught the magic, 2nd gen weren't taught anything. At bet they absorbed the magic from the dragons but the dragons couldn't teach them anything. So they have "dragon magic" but not "dragon slayer magic" from my point of view. The closest they could get to being "dragon slayers" was if they slaughtered the dragons themselves but iirc they just got the lacrima from dead dragons.

This is why I've never really considered Cobra and Laxus to be "real" Dragon Slayers. That, and they don't do the whole "calling your attacks" thing with anything other than breath (unless Cobra does, it's been too long for me to remember whether he does wing/talon attacks or not. Laxus definitely doesn't).

[lord_khaine]

I did say "something along those lines". Maybe after the training is complete they have to kill the dragon, and that absorbs the dragon's soul into them, and only by remembering that you've done this can you become a "type 3".

No? to make a 3rd gen DS you just implant the lacryma the 2nd gen recive into a first generation dragon slayer.

Nah, there's another difference. 1st gen were taught the magic, 2nd gen weren't taught anything. At bet they absorbed the magic from the dragons but the dragons couldn't teach them anything. So they have "dragon magic" but not "dragon slayer magic" from my point of view. The closest they could get to being "dragon slayers" was if they slaughtered the dragons themselves but iirc they just got the lacrima from dead dragons.

Yes, so 1st gen learned from a dragon, 2nd gen learned by getting lacryma implanted into their body.
And that bit doesnt make any sense whatsoever, so Laxus or Cobra is using exactly the same type of magic as Natsu, yet they are only using dragon magic, not dragon slayer magic?
Despite their dragon kill count being equal ?

And we have not been told anything about where the lacrima comes from yet.

This is why I've never really considered Cobra and Laxus to be "real" Dragon Slayers. That, and they don't do the whole "calling your attacks" thing with anything other than breath (unless Cobra does, it's been too long for me to remember whether he does wing/talon attacks or not. Laxus definitely doesn't).

This really would only make sense if you considder the definition of a dragon slayer to be someone taught dragon slaying magic by a dragon, instead of the more logical one of someone using dragon slaying magic, or the most logical one, someone who has slain a dragon

Anyway, Laxus doesnt do the attack calling because he usualy doesnt use his dragon slaying magic, instead just using either his lightning magic or plain physical power. That he was a dragon slayer was after all a pretty big secret than even people in the guild didnt know anything about.

And Cobra does use the fang attacks.
http://www.mangareader.net/135-30482...apter-150.html

[LaZodiac]

Anyway, Laxus doesnt do the attack calling because he usualy doesnt use his dragon slaying magic, instead just using either his lightning magic or plain physical power. That he was a dragon slayer was after all a pretty big secret than even people in the guild didnt know anything about.

And Cobra does use the fang attacks.
http://www.mangareader.net/135-30482...apter-150.html

You'd think people would of noticed the day after he like, drinks a lightning bolt or something.

[Kato]

Yes, so 1st gen learned from a dragon, 2nd gen learned by getting lacryma implanted into their body.
And that bit doesnt make any sense whatsoever, so Laxus or Cobra is using exactly the same type of magic as Natsu, yet they are only using dragon magic, not dragon slayer magic?

So if I eat the brain, heart, whatever... all off a martial arts master I would ten be able to use the same martial arts he would have taught me if he was alive?
If we assume DS magic is magic developed by dragons to slay other dragons and taught to humans for that purpose this does at no point imply that merely being able to use a dragons inherit magic enables you to kill other dragons. That seems like a giant leap in reasoning to me at least. Using thunder magic - even if thunder magic from a dragon - is not the same as using thunder magic specifically designed to kill dragons. (Unless dragon magic itself is just strong against dragons (see Pokemon/D&D approach earlier)

And we have not been told anything about where the lacrima comes from yet.

Well they come from dead dragons... I guess it's a bit weird with the recent chapter saying 3rd Gen "bathing in a dragon's blood" but I guess someone could have dumped Laxus in dragon blood when he was still a kid.

This really would only make sense if you considder the definition of a dragon slayer to be someone taught dragon slaying magic by a dragon, instead of the more logical one of someone using dragon slaying magic, or the most logical one, someone who has slain a dragon

I'd take the last one as most logical. Even if that doesn't make anyone before 3rd gen a real DS

Anyway, Laxus doesnt do the attack calling because he usualy doesnt use his dragon slaying magic, instead just using either his lightning magic or plain physical power.

Not that we have any evidence in either direction but what makes you think Laxus thunder magic isn't his DS magic and he just doesn't call his attacks because it's stupid?

[Olinser]

You'd think people would of noticed the day after he like, drinks a lightning bolt or something.

DS can eat normal food just fine. They just get huge added benefits from eating their element.

Natsu eats a LOT of normal food. He just likes spicy food.

[LaZodiac]

DS can eat normal food just fine. They just get huge added benefits from eating their element.

Natsu eats a LOT of normal food. He just likes spicy food.

I know, I just figure it might come up occasionally. Like, did Laxus's buddies know he was a dragon slayer?

[Olinser]

I know, I just figure it might come up occasionally. Like, did Laxus's buddies know he was a dragon slayer?

I don't recall anybody ever mentioning it. I'd have to go back and look, but I don't think even Makarov realized he was an artificial DS.

I think everybody just assumed he used lightning magic, like Gray used ice magic.

[lord_khaine]

So if I eat the brain, heart, whatever... all off a martial arts master I would ten be able to use the same martial arts he would have taught me if he was alive?

I dont see the relevance of this at all.
Unlike martial arts, dragon slayer magic is normaly impossibel for humans to learn.

If we assume DS magic is magic developed by dragons to slay other dragons and taught to humans for that purpose this does at no point imply that merely being able to use a dragons inherit magic enables you to kill other dragons. That seems like a giant leap in reasoning to me at least. Using thunder magic - even if thunder magic from a dragon - is not the same as using thunder magic specifically designed to kill dragons. (Unless dragon magic itself is just strong against dragons (see Pokemon/D&D approach earlier)

To me it seems like a bigger leap of reasoning to belive there is a difference between the magic of the 1st and the 2nd gen DS.
Because the concept of "dragon magic" does seem to be something you have come up with, to create an artificial difference between the generations of dragon slayers.

Well they come from dead dragons... I guess it's a bit weird with the recent chapter saying 3rd Gen "bathing in a dragon's blood" but I guess someone could have dumped Laxus in dragon blood when he was still a kid.

Do you have an actual source on that?
Because all i have seen is that the Lacryma is called dragon lacryma, but that doesnt mean its made from dragons.

Not that we have any evidence in either direction but what makes you think Laxus thunder magic isn't his DS magic and he just doesn't call his attacks because it's stupid?

Well, the magic of the other dragon slayers seems to follow a certain pattern, and a lot of Laxus's attacks doesnt follow that pattern.
(mostly augumenting a physical attack with magic, or a dragon breath attack. Laxus's orbs, meteors, spear, hall of thunder and Fairy Law seems like solid evidence of him knowing other sorts of magic).
Also, the "datasheet" on him in one of the first chapters said he knew several kinds of magic.

I know, I just figure it might come up occasionally. Like, did Laxus's buddies know he was a dragon slayer?

We dont know, either situation is equaly likely.

[Olinser]

I dont see the relevance of this at all.
Unlike martial arts, dragon slayer magic is normaly impossibel for humans to learn.



To me it seems like a bigger leap of reasoning to belive there is a difference between the magic of the 1st and the 2nd gen DS.
Because the concept of "dragon magic" does seem to be something you have come up with, to create an artificial difference between the generations of dragon slayers.


Do you have an actual source on that?
Because all i have seen is that the Lacryma is called dragon lacryma, but that doesnt mean its made from dragons.



Well, the magic of the other dragon slayers seems to follow a certain pattern, and a lot of Laxus's attacks doesnt follow that pattern.
(mostly augumenting a physical attack with magic, or a dragon breath attack. Laxus's orbs, meteors, spear, hall of thunder and Fairy Law seems like solid evidence of him knowing other sorts of magic).
Also, the "datasheet" on him in one of the first chapters said he knew several kinds of magic.



We dont know, either situation is equaly likely.

Well, there IS a significant difference in the type of abilities displayed by Natsu and by FutureRogue. It is not a big stretch to think that it is because of the difference in their DS type.

FutureRogue has shown the ability to actually transform into his element. Natsu has shown nothing near that level.

While it could be argued that this is because Rogue has spent his time getting better at using his abilities, it is entirely valid to think that it is because he is a better type of DS than Natsu.

[Kato]

I dont see the relevance of this at all.
Unlike martial arts, dragon slayer magic is normaly impossibel for humans to learn.

While I don't see how you are going to prove that I have to return the argument: I don't see how this is relevant.

To me it seems like a bigger leap of reasoning to belive there is a difference between the magic of the 1st and the 2nd gen DS.
Because the concept of "dragon magic" does seem to be something you have come up with, to create an artificial difference between the generations of dragon slayers.

Okay, let me try to put it differently. You think that Dragon Magic and Dragon Slayer Magic are the same thing which in my opinion raises the problem why the magic of a dragon would be especially dangerous to other dragons. (Or the only thing to harm other dragons. Also, does this mean dragons feed on their specific element?)
From my point of view, yes, there is a difference between the magic used by a dragon and the magic, though designed by dragons but used to kill other dragons, which raises tha problem that a 2nd gen DS wouldn't really know DS magic.
Can we agree to disagree from that?

Do you have an actual source on that?
Because all i have seen is that the Lacryma is called dragon lacryma, but that doesnt mean its made from dragons.

What specifically? Dragon lacrima being made from dragons? Uhm... no I just kind of assumed it was. So what's your idea what dragon lacrima is?

Well, the magic of the other dragon slayers seems to follow a certain pattern, and a lot of Laxus's attacks doesnt follow that pattern.
(mostly augumenting a physical attack with magic, or a dragon breath attack. Laxus's orbs, meteors, spear, hall of thunder and Fairy Law seems like solid evidence of him knowing other sorts of magic).
Also, the "datasheet" on him in one of the first chapters said he knew several kinds of magic.

Meh. Just because his skills look different.. Obviously Fairy Law is not DS magic but that doesn't mean his thunder spells aren't. As I said, there is no real evidence but it seems weird to me he'd have thunder magic and thunder dragon magic. Or somewhat redundant at least.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Well, there IS a significant difference in the type of abilities displayed by Natsu and by FutureRogue. It is not a big stretch to think that it is because of the difference in their DS type.

FutureRogue has shown the ability to actually transform into his element. Natsu has shown nothing near that level.

While it could be argued that this is because Rogue has spent his time getting better at using his abilities, it is entirely valid to think that it is because he is a better type of DS than Natsu.

Alternately it may simply be a particular property of Shadow Dragon Slayer and NOT Fire Dragon Slayer.

Gajeel has been turning into iron since the beginning.

[Olinser]

Alternately it may simply be a particular property of Shadow Dragon Slayer and NOT Fire Dragon Slayer.

Gajeel has been turning into iron since the beginning.

No, he's been doing what Natsu has been doing - amplifying body parts with his element.

Rogue actually full-on transformed into his element.

I'll admit that in specifically Gajeel's case, there isn't much of a difference between making your skin metal-like and transforming into metal.

But with all the others there is a significant difference. Wendy, for instance, if she could actually transform into wind, would be just about invincible.

[Kato]

But with all the others there is a significant difference. Wendy, for instance, if she could actually transform into wind, would be just about invincible.

Meh, she'd be about as invincible as anyone else... except Gajeel. Like many Logia users in OP. But both Rogue and Laxus have shown to (seemingly) transform into shadow/lightning before, if I recall correctly. It might just be coincidental depending on the dragon?

[lord_khaine]

FutureRogue has shown the ability to actually transform into his element. Natsu has shown nothing near that level.

While it could be argued that this is because Rogue has spent his time getting better at using his abilities, it is entirely valid to think that it is because he is a better type of DS than Natsu.

Well, i dont think its a good idea to look at future Rogue for consistensy among DS types, considering he is a 3rd gen DS who has consumed the power of his opposite ½, as well as learned other types of magic besides DS magic.

While I don't see how you are going to prove that I have to return the argument: I don't see how this is relevant.

I think your syntax is broken here?
Anyway, its you who brought Martial arts into this, so its you who gotta argue for why its relevant.

Okay, let me try to put it differently. You think that Dragon Magic and Dragon Slayer Magic are the same thing which in my opinion raises the problem why the magic of a dragon would be especially dangerous to other dragons. (Or the only thing to harm other dragons. Also, does this mean dragons feed on their specific element?)

No, i just cant see where the idea that the 2nd gen should use Dragon Magic, or that there even is something like that comes from. Because its not mentioned anywhere in the manga, who instead calls them dragon slayers. Even Natsu considder Laxus and Cobra for regular users of DS magic, and is all but handing them a dragon each.

From my point of view, yes, there is a difference between the magic used by a dragon and the magic, though designed by dragons but used to kill other dragons, which raises tha problem that a 2nd gen DS wouldn't really know DS magic.
Can we agree to disagree from that?

I guess we have to, i just cant see where that idea should come from, especaly considering that we have seen Laxus & Cobra do everything a standard Dragon Slayer can do, like eating their own element to grow stronger.

What specifically? Dragon lacrima being made from dragons? Uhm... no I just kind of assumed it was. So what's your idea what dragon lacrima is?

A magical crystal that changes the human body enough to make it possibel for a human to learn DS magic.

Meh. Just because his skills look different.. Obviously Fairy Law is not DS magic but that doesn't mean his thunder spells aren't. As I said, there is no real evidence but it seems weird to me he'd have thunder magic and thunder dragon magic. Or somewhat redundant at least.

They did look different enough for it to be a secret that Laxus was actualy a Dragon Slayer, even Natsu didnt know that, despite having fought with him.
And it doesnt sound that weird to me, if the thunder magic he learned complimented his DS magic with fx some precise medium/long range attacks?

[Kato]

I think your syntax is broken here?
Anyway, its you who brought Martial arts into this, so its you who gotta argue for why its relevant.

Possibly. Non-native language, my apologies.
My point is about you bringing up people not being able to learn DS Magic normally. Have we ever seen a DS trying to teach his techniques to someone else? And whether this is or is not possible, I don't quite see how this is relevant. My point is/was relevant (for my perspective) because I was for some reason convinced dragon lacrima was somehow left overs or made of or whatever part of a dragon. Which we have no proof for I realize now but I still strongly tend to believe it (because I used to believe in it for no reason for the last years. Belief is weird that way)

Even Natsu considder Laxus and Cobra for regular users of DS magic, and is all but handing them a dragon each.

The lack of proof for my point aside, Natsu's opinion is no proof either. The term came (iirc) from Laxus when he revealed himself to be a 2nd gen DS and Natsu just didn't dispute it whether rightfully or not.

I guess we have to, i just cant see where that idea should come from, especaly considering that we have seen Laxus & Cobra do everything a standard Dragon Slayer can do, like eating their own element to grow stronger.

Not to insist to strongly on the idea but if a dragon lacrima just grants you the skills of a dragon it seems likely it would also give you resistance and possibly hunger for that element.

They did look different enough for it to be a secret that Laxus was actualy a Dragon Slayer, even Natsu didnt know that, despite having fought with him.
And it doesnt sound that weird to me, if the thunder magic he learned complimented his DS magic with fx some precise medium/long range attacks?

Did Natsu ever recognize a different dragon slayer until they shouted "x Dragon's Roar!" or something like that or flat out stated they are a dragon slayer?
I guess you can take both positions, yours more if one assumes people have affinities for certain elements, but if I'm already a master of thunder magic and I had a choice I'd rather pick a different element for my second skill set for a little variety.

[jindra34]

New Chapter:

Spoiler

Show

And nice to see there will be something for the non-Dragon Slayers to do. And that yeah the DS's are living up to their name. And jeeze, Zirconis/Zilconis has kinda a fan-servicey ability.

[Olinser]

New chapter.

All I can say is, LOL ZIRCONIS.

[Kato]

All I can say is, LOL ZIRCONIS.

I'd phrase it slightly different: I want to be a Zirconis Dragonslayer!

Well, nothing major happening but it was nice enough, I guess. Still, that's a pretty weird dragon power...