Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

[ThiagoMartell]

So I've recently watched Hunger Games and there is something that just bugs me.
The society seems messed up but functional, until they reveal the guys in the organizational comittee can create stuff out of the blue.
Now, can someone explain me why they need the people in the far away districts to live in misery working on tough jobs when they could simply, ya know, magically create that stuff?

[Anecronwashere]

They can't?
They have Awesome Stealth and Guidance Systems as well as what is Almost a Post-Scarcity civilization but they cant make Matter.

They rely on Science (though maybe not explained science), not Magic involved too

[Parra]

Yea that kinda bugged me about the movie too.
If they have the capacity to instantaneously create mutant killer dogs in the blink of an eye, they also have the ability to create whatever else they might need.

Another thing that bothered me was during the selection process that we see in district 12 is when all the children of the selection age are gathered together there is maybe 1-200 of them. It just seems a very very small amount for an entire district. It felt more like a village.

[Mauve Shirt]

I wondered that myself. In the book I'm pretty sure they had those crazy dogs set up beforehand, and those fire traps were always in place.

And Parra, also in the book, because of the mine explosions and danger district 12 is the smallest district.

[SlyJohnny]

They're definitely not post-scarcity.

Most of the future-tech stuff they have seems to be military hand-me-downs; stealth, guidance, optics, sensors, forcefields, genetic engineering (muttations)... the movie doesn't make a big thing about it, but those hunting dogs they released at the end are actually partially made out of the dead tributes, or at least have their eyes. The tracker-jacks and jabberjays/mockingjays were also gene-engineered weapons made during the uprising, but the jabberjays kind of backfired and were more advantageous to the rebels, so the fact they bred with mockingjays instead of dying out pisses the Capitol off no end.

They still need the outlying districts for food and textiles and mining, they just use their inherited pre-apocalypse military tech to keep them in line.

[Anecronwashere]

Almost.
Ive only read the 1st book and seen the movie but it seems like the Capitol do nothing.
The Hunger Games is a yearly Stave-Off-Boredom exercise.
They have any meal at the press of a button and not enough important jobs to keep all of them busy all the time.

[Parra]

And Parra, also in the book, because of the mine explosions and danger district 12 is the smallest district.

I thought it might have just been a visual thing for the movies.

Even then district 12 would have to be very small geographically, and maybe only a mine or 2 (in walking distance from the town). It would have made more sense if there were multiple mines and multiple towns amounting to a larger, if more widely spread, population.

It just seemed so out of place when you see crowds, 10's of thousands strong in the capital district.

[ThiagoMartell]

They can't?
They have Awesome Stealth and Guidance Systems as well as what is Almost a Post-Scarcity civilization but they cant make Matter.

They sure can in the book. They created the hunting dogs out of thin air.

They rely on Science (though maybe not explained science), not Magic involved too

Magic is nothing but unexplained science.

Yea that kinda bugged me about the movie too.
If they have the capacity to instantaneously create mutant killer dogs in the blink of an eye, they also have the ability to create whatever else they might need.

Yeah, it simply does not make sense.

I wondered that myself. In the book I'm pretty sure they had those crazy dogs set up beforehand, and those fire traps were always in place.

Oh, that is a lot more reasonable. Looks like an adaptation issue.

[Xondoure]

Yeah the dogs were released into the arena, not conjured.

[ThiagoMartell]

Yeah the dogs were released into the arena, not conjured.

Not in the movie, they weren't

[MLai]

Do not use fridge logic on Hunger Games the books or the movie. Both the books and the movie have unsustainable logic holes in the world setting to anyone with practical knowledge on how a world functions; we're not talking about quality or well-researched literature here. Remember these are mediocre novels aimed at young readers. And it rips off a Japanese manga, already dooming itself to be prone to plot holes.

A hilarious "Let's Read" blog criticizing the novel as the blogger reads it. It's very long but very funny IMO. As a hobby writer, I bookmarked it because it's like a glossary of creative writing faux pas.

[snoopy13a]

Only about 5000 people live in District 12. The other districts are supposely much bigger. I guess their society doesn't really need that much coal.

[Tyndmyr]

So I've recently watched Hunger Games and there is something that just bugs me.
The society seems messed up but functional, until they reveal the guys in the organizational comittee can create stuff out of the blue.
Now, can someone explain me why they need the people in the far away districts to live in misery working on tough jobs when they could simply, ya know, magically create that stuff?

It was a weak point, yeah. I'm told the books are better on this, but the magical dogs thing did bother me.

I've bashed on the movie at a few points, tho.

[Xondoure]

Not in the movie, they weren't

Yes they were. Just becasue the command was some crazy holograph instead of a button push doesn't change the fact that the dogs weren't created magically. They were just released from under the arena, not the edges so as to take the contestants by surprise.

[comicshorse]

I'd say that was debatable, my impression from watching the movie was that they were created

[Fragenstein]

I'd say that was debatable, my impression from watching the movie was that they were created

They did seem to just form out of the ground, didn't they? But keep in mind that they still had the facial features of the fallen tributes. I'd say that, even in the movie, they weren't formed out of thin air but rather rebuilt and re-animated in a medical lab nearby as use for a finale.

[Tyndmyr]

They did seem to just form out of the ground, didn't they? But keep in mind that they still had the facial features of the fallen tributes. I'd say that, even in the movie, they weren't formed out of thin air but rather rebuilt and re-animated in a medical lab nearby as use for a finale.

This requires assuming a lot of things that were never shown, and ignoring what was shown(formed out of the ground).

By that logic, Star Wars was about penguins.

[Xondoure]

This requires assuming a lot of things that were never shown, and ignoring what was shown(formed out of the ground).

By that logic, Star Wars was about penguins.

Popped out of the ground is not the same thing. One would break the setting (not that it isn't already broken) the other is consistent. Claiming conjuration when there's a simpler solution is plot holes by ignorance of Occam's razor.

[Hiro Protagonest]

This requires assuming a lot of things that were never shown, and ignoring what was shown(formed out of the ground).

By that logic, Star Wars was about penguins.

Alright then. I suppose in the movie it makes no sense. But in the book, it's specifically said to be mutated dead tributes.

[Tyndmyr]

Popped out of the ground is not the same thing. One would break the setting (not that it isn't already broken) the other is consistent. Claiming conjuration when there's a simpler solution is plot holes by ignorance of Occam's razor.

What is shown trumps what is simpler.

What is shown is canon. What is not, is not. They show a hologram, they show the controller folks hitting a coupla buttons, and dogs are getting formed out of the ground. There is absolutely no mention of this being a preplanned thing, or of medical labs, nor is there any reasons to suspect such. It requires extensive explanation, too, because you don't see the corpses of the fallen tributes vanishing or anything.

So no...it's not a "simple solution" at all.

[snoopy13a]

It was a weak point, yeah. I'm told the books are better on this, but the magical dogs thing did bother me.

I've bashed on the movie at a few points, tho.

The books are written from Katniss's first-person perspective. Since Katniss isn't familiar with technology, the author normally isn't required to explain why things work--because Katniss has no clue.

In the book, we don't see the dogs enter the arena--because Katniss doesn't see them enter. Addtionally, in the dog sequence, Katniss is freaked out because she has no idea if the dogs are simply mutant dogs made to look like the contestants or if the dogs are actually the other contestants. As readers, we have no idea either--although my guess is the former. Thus, the author doesn't have to explain dogs' capabilities or any of the pseudo-science behind their creation because that information simply isn't available to Katniss.

[Tyndmyr]

The books are written from Katniss's first-person perspective. Since Katniss isn't familiar with technology, the author normally isn't required to explain why things work--because Katniss has no clue.

In the book, we don't see the dogs enter the arena--because Katniss doesn't see them enter. Addtionally, in the dog sequence, Katniss is freaked out because she has no idea if the dogs are simply mutant dogs made to look like the contestants or if the dogs are actually the other contestants. As readers, we have no idea either--although my guess is the former. Thus, the author doesn't have to explain dogs' capabilities or any of the pseudo-science behind their creation because that information simply isn't available to Katniss.

I'm just talking about the movie.

[Inglenook]

I usually assume that movie canon follows book canon unless explicitly stated/shown otherwise. Thus, the mutts were genetic abominations created using the DNA of the dead tributes, and were released into the arena like any other obstacle. Not coalesced out of the mist or a Star Trek replicator or whatever.

Easy peasy!

[snoopy13a]

I'm just talking about the movie.

I know; I was just offering a possible explanation why your friends found the book more plausible than the movie--namely through the author's choice of narration.

[Xondoure]

What is shown trumps what is simpler.

What is shown is canon. What is not, is not. They show a hologram, they show the controller folks hitting a coupla buttons, and dogs are getting formed out of the ground. There is absolutely no mention of this being a preplanned thing, or of medical labs, nor is there any reasons to suspect such. It requires extensive explanation, too, because you don't see the corpses of the fallen tributes vanishing or anything.

So no...it's not a "simple solution" at all.

However when what is shown doesn't contradict what is simpler, go with the simpler solution.

[ThiagoMartell]

However when what is shown doesn't contradict what is simpler, go with the simpler solution.

Except it kinda does. The dialogue haevily implies they are simply conjured.

[Tyndmyr]

However when what is shown doesn't contradict what is simpler, go with the simpler solution.

What level of contradiction do you demand?

The chars turning to the screen and saying "Xondoure, we're conjuring them out of NOTHING, mwahahaha"?

Because we kind of see it happen.

[Razanir]

Alright then. I suppose in the movie it makes no sense. But in the book, it's specifically said to be mutated dead tributes.

Sorry for the all-caps, but WHERE?! I've always heard people say that, but I've never gotten that impression from the books. Maybe the eyes, yeah, but I assumed they just picked eye and fur color based on the dead tributes.

Magic is nothing but unexplained science.

Clarke's Third Law.

[snoopy13a]

Sorry for the all-caps, but WHERE?! I've always heard people say that, but I've never gotten that impression from the books. Maybe the eyes, yeah, but I assumed they just picked eye and fur color based on the dead tributes.

People are making conclusions based on Katniss's thoughts. The dogs may be some sort of frankenstein-dog using the dead tributes' bodies, or they might be dogs created to look like the dead tributes. For all we know, the gamemasters may have created dogs that look like Katniss, Cato, and Peetra and didn't release them because those three were still alive. We have no idea, only what Katniss thinks and fears might be the case.

[Xondoure]

Except it kinda does. The dialogue haevily implies they are simply conjured.

At what point?