The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)

[hamishspence]

the right Wargear does tend to beef up Str and Toughness though.

Tau suits.
Grey Knight supersuit (character's upgraded all the way to Monstrous Creature)

While few special characters have boosted Str or T without large amounts of artificial augmentation, they do exist. "Stonetooth" Harker is T4 despite being an unaugmented Imperial Guard human. Arjac Rockfist is Str 5 despite being a "normal" Space Wolf marine. And so forth.

Krak grenades and frag grenades, as infantry wargear, don't actually do damage to other infantry despite thinking it'd be obvious for them to do so - frags ignore cover bonuses, kraks are anti-vehicle melee weapons for troops who can't melee a vehicle on their own. Sure, it's easier to kill someone with a grenade if it's magnetic, but at the scale that melee combat represents, it's not really much better than stabbing them with your spiked skull-covered chainsaw sword. Though in the RPG, Kraks are grenades with higher damage and smaller blast radius.

I just think the last thing that the game needs is ANOTHER type of special grenade with wonky rules, when 'counts as frag/krak grenades' is enough and the game's newest editions are trying to weed them out. Though now that I'm thinking of it, the sticky property could be represented as having plasma grenades count as both frag and kraks, and have plain frag grenades as a separate and cheaper option.

6E has brought back frag grenades as something you can throw (only one grenade per squad though).

There's also rules for using grenades against monstrous creatures- a bit like the old Ultramarines Tyranid Hunters.

[Selrahc]

the right Wargear does tend to beef up Str and Toughness though.

Tau suits.
Grey Knight supersuit (character's upgraded all the way to Monstrous Creature)

While few special characters have boosted Str or T without large amounts of artificial augmentation, they do exist. "Stonetooth" Harker is T4 despite being an unaugmented Imperial Guard human. Arjac Rockfist is Str 5 despite being a "normal" Space Wolf marine. And so forth.

All true, and both Orks and Eldar definitely get boosted stats on their special characters.

I don't think the Arbiter falls into that category though. He isn't really noted as an exceptionally tough/strong specimen. Just a skilled one. Tartarus on the other hand... and in fact Brute Chieftains in general. They have an Ork-like thing where their leaders are just incredibly powerful physical specimens, beyond the already impressive baseline. Brutes get tougher as they go up the ranks. Elites get more skilled.

[Anecronwashere]

Orks have a pass in that, well they DO get stronger. Because they get older and stronger, and all the Named Chars are older than the grunts

[Fan]

I think you guys are ascribing a BIT much to all these Elites.

Given that even master chief himself as no non game mechanic feats that put his lifting class above the tonnage range, his top speed calc's out at around the same as a normal marines despite his lighter equipment, and Mjolnir augmented reflexes, and AI assistance.

And in The Fall of Reach, an Elite was perscribed to be John's physical equal, and John isn't even remotely on the same physical level as a Space Marine. His lifting capping out at power scaling gauged by James's 750 lbs (scaling it to size, and weighing it the same as granitic rock.) that he struggled to push in The Fall of Reach's first encounter with a Hunter.

I wouldn't give any of them the amount of Weapon Skill that's being perscribed to them as well, nor would I rate their penetration being as high as it is, and the highest accuracy feat I've seen is from John as well in the novel The Flood, where he tosses a Plasma Grenade that sticks to a target at 30 meters unaided.

Space Marines toss throwing weapons that far all the time in fiction and they aren't nearly WS 7, hell, I'd be hard pressed to give them any 7's at all.

Elites are also tough, but they are still downed by generic ballsitic weaponry, lack redundant organs, or exceptional physiology or armor (An Iron Halo like Shield is an invulnerable save, not a increase to Toughness, and given that headshots nullify it instantly, and traditional modern armaments can down it in a single shot (Yes I have played Legendary Difficulty, I'm citing the books.) I don't think we can really give an invulnerable save to it. It's a matter of bolter's, and hotshot lasguns being by and far superior to even the plasma weaponry demonstrated in Halo, with Hotshot Lasguns capable of boiling concrete in an area roughly a few inches across deep enough for a marine to lose his boot in (which also didn't hurt the Marine.), I'd say that makes it a far cry from the blackening / scorching that even the higher end convenant weapons produce on similar materials (Both examples using granitic continental crust on Earth like planets.) even in the fiction. Armor wise, they're pathetic as well, their mostly ceremonial armor not even properly covering vitals, their own top speeds are lower than The Chiefs, and far lower than that of the right Chapters Marine (Emperor Forbid a Grey Knight.).

As for space, please read Fall of Reach. The orbital defense stations are roughly equivalent to a single lance in a battery of them going by damage output, and they were able to pierce through Covenant ships without fail. The only reason any of them ever got downed is because they were out numbered 10:1, and the Covenant had brought out the Super Carriers that the UNSC, already in possession of only a few weapons that could hurt the convenant ship of the line, couldn't handle.

Combine that with the fact that even Escort Class Destroyers carry a Lance BATTERY and you can generally infer from there that we're just dealing with a different scale here.

Halo is a Kiloton - Low Megaton verse.

Warhammer 40k is a Gigaton - Terraton verse with Exterminatus. What could High Charity do to stop a 2 stage Cyclonic Torpedo? Or given it's size, a teleporter team with a virus bomb unleashed on the ship.

Even ignoring obvious win conditions, we also have to take a look at the fact that a 40k Ship is well over 10 times as large at the mainstay cruiser of the Lunar, with dozens of times more weaponry, a psychic aboard every ship, and with weaponry far in advance (Going by feats.) of what the Haloverse has ever displayed barring Precursor technology like The Halo Rings, which are omitted due to this being 40k verse.

Slipspace also isn't instantaneous, Chief repeatedly has to go into Cryostasis during these jumps, and it's implied that these jumps take CONSIDERABLE amounts of time. Including the Covenant jumps, giving them a non advantage as far as FTL speed goes.


Real Space Speed, they're probably about matched, but I have some quotes from Flight of the Eisenstein, and The Blood Angels Omnibus that has some decent Real Space travel speeds whenever I manage to crack them out.

Their shields are by and far inferior to Void Shield emitters as well going by the fact that they've been taken out by a kiloton grade explosion, and are instantly by passed by the MAC cannon.

Given the Covenant's arrogance, lack of previous encounter with advanced civilization, lack of tech to match up to the Imperium of Man, and a lack of solid feats demonstrating anything that puts an Elite even on the level of a grunt Space Marine, I don't think they can do it. As far as galactic civilizations go they also have a pretty piss poor manufacturing base, and their top tier ground units (Scarabs) lose instantly to Titans as Titans have their highest feat up at Mountain Busting via the Volcano Gun demonstrated in Dark Adeptus.

They can't field a ground base that competes with the Iom's, their intelligence / spy network is inferior to the Officio Assassianorium, their loyalty checks are inferior to the Inquisition (Never though I'd say that.), and their people are generally less fanatical. Which whether or not that last point is a plus is beyond me.

I'm sorry, I just don't even see them being a fight. The IoM packs considerably more firepower per shot, their plasma weaponry doesn't vaporize / boil stone like IoM Plasma Weaponry does to get it's ratings, and the IoM generally brings more gun, fields more bodies, and is more willing to do things even the most fanatical of the Covenant would not because they can be described as purely suicidal.

Then, the Sniper Rifle which instantly kills with a headshot (Going by spartan 058 Linda, from multiple novel occurances. 1 shot. 1 kill. Even through shields, and even her highest accuracy feat is mechanically aided.) proves that with sufficient penetration you can pierce the shields protection and go through and kill them. Given the penetration of a modern .50 caliber rifle, and then ascribing the fact that a Hotshot Lasgun being an energy weapon would probably allow it to work more favorably against Sanghelli shields, and the various other soldiers of the line that the Covenant fields. It almost goes without saying that it would tear through their ranks like it does anything else. The Covenant has simply never even touched base with a society like the Imperium of Man.

I think people are also forgetting that the Elites are well, elites. The mainstay of the army happens to be just like the Imperial guard only somehow phenomenonally less competent. Grunts, Jackals, and Brutes are all PHENOMENONALLY BAD at tactics. To the point that Brutes tardcharge you if you hurt them enough, having an actual battle rage issue that's enforced multiple times throughout story, and lacking the tactical mindset to manage any sort of tactical engagement against opponents who's rank and file isn't vastly outmatched by them.

[Chess435]

*snip*

I'm pretty sure it was determined that the horse was beat enough that it would not in fact get up again.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I'm pretty sure it was determined that the horse was beat enough that it would not in fact get up again.

Which is why I'm refraining from digging a post from the past page up that I really should respond to and some new info I found on Covenant weapons.

And for this page because I know from past experience I won't get anywhere with Fan.

[The Glyphstone]

So back to the current topic...

HQ choices:
Prophet
High Prophet (is this a thing?)
Brute Chieftain
Elite Captain (?)

Elite choices:
Brutes
Elites

Troop choices:
Grunt Squad
Jackal Squad

Fast Attack:
Jackal Skirmishers
Ghost Squadron
Banshee

Heavy Support:
Wraith
Scorpion
Hunter Team

Superheavy Tanks:
Scarab

[The_Final_Stand]

The Scorpion is a UNSC tank, Glyphstone. I'd also add Jackal Snipers as their own unit in Elites. Maybe put a Phantom as a Flyer(Hover) Dedicated Transport.

Brute vehicles? Prowlers carry a Plasma Cannon and two Brutes, which doesn't quite work as a unit by itself. Choppers could probably be Bikes, but armed with a heavier but slower firing weapon. Maybe an upgrade for a Ghost squadron lets them be led by a Chopper?

I'd be tempted to drop the Strength of the Plasma Cannons to 5, and have the guns on the Chopper be S6, if we include them. The strength of the Plasma Cannon is in its rate of fire, rather than the strength of the individual shots.

[Chess435]

Also as an interesting Troops or Elite choice would be the Huragok (more commonly known as Engineers). The Overshields would probably improve the armor save of all nearby allied Covenant units by 1 and give a 6+ invulnerable save to anyone that already has a 2+ armor. (i.e. Hunters) When they inevitably got shot at and killed, give them a small blast template centered on their model, similar to how they explode on ODST.

[Soras Teva Gee]

So back to the current topic...

HQ choices:
Prophet
High Prophet (is this a thing?)
Brute Chieftain
Elite Captain (?)

Well High Prophets arguably should be specific "hero" characters like the in-game Arbiter since there are only 3 of them at a time.

"Prophet" should probably also be "Lesser Prophet"

Don't care to look up what the "Elite Captain" would be since my eyes go googity looking at that wiki page, but I know that there are probably a few other ranks up to the Councilors that are Sanghelli leaders below the Prophets but also outranking the ordinary field commander Elites.

Then again having a Prophet of any sort on the field is a bit of a contrivance anyways, but hey its a conversion so that happens. It totally appropriate for 40k at least. (Unless my spotty memory fails me and you don't have Ethereal Caste tabletop rules, honestly you can almost do the Covenant as a re-skin of the Tau)

[Tavar]

High Prophet seems like it would be more similar to using named hero's : like instead of random eilite or brute captain, you use half -jaw or Tartarus.

Spectres could likely be in the same place as landspeeders.

Don't forget the anti-air version of the wraith: the two fuel rod cannons it carries can be turned against infantry and vehicles on the ground as well.

Also, drones. Probably similar to Gargoyles from the tyranid.

Prowlers and choppers are probably best misled as brute versions of the spectre and ghost, while the brute and elite versions of the scarab have more obvious differences.

[The Glyphstone]

Ethereals are normal HQ choices for Tau.

A High Prophet would make sense as a named character, or a 0-1 HQ choice in a sufficiently large army if you didn't want to go through the trouble of naming and statting each High Prophet individually.



Maybe if you have a Brute Chieftain as your HQ, Sanheilli units are 0-1, and vice versa if you have an Elite Captain as your HQ? Choosing a Prophet or High Prophet would leave them both at 0-2 or even 0-1, if we can find non-Sangheilli/Brute units for Elite and Fast Attack units (Drones sound like a good Fast Attack).

[Soras Teva Gee]

Ethereals are normal HQ choices for Tau.

A High Prophet would make sense as a named character, or a 0-1 HQ choice in a sufficiently large army if you didn't want to go through the trouble of naming and statting each High Prophet individually.

Yeah but off tabletop I was under the impression they are supposed to be rare sights, not your *actual* commanders on a "real" basis anymore then Marines regularly deploy under their chapter's high command or the IG under a Lord General? An Ordo Xenos Inquisitor probably knows about them from intel work but even those Imperials that have fought the Tau have probably never seen them.

Same deal with the Prophets

Off the top of my head we know there was like one Lesser Prophet in the whole fleet that took Reach and followed the Autumn to the Halo. He certainly never took the field there. It just wouldn't really convey the flavor of the Covenant to not have them in a 40k tabletop conversion though.

[Tiki Snakes]

Yeah, it's not like the Prophets are even capable of anything meaningful combat-wise. At least with Chapter Masters and Imperial High Generals and stuff there's the implicit assumption that they are a stone cold badass rather than a floating bag of flab and brittle-bones on a shiny chair.

If they're anywhere on the field that just means that the side is in massive trouble and ET is about to get facepunched to oblivion, basically. This should be reflected somehow in the conversion, I feel.

[Tavar]

Note that in one fight, that chair has beam weaponry and heavy duty shields. There's also that prophet used in Halo wars.

Still, I think those are best treated as abberations. Just use the brute/elite divide.

[The Glyphstone]

Okay, so Lesser Prophets are the third - after all, it's not like 40K doesn't have precedent with Ethereals and/or Lord Commissars as people you wouldn't expect on the battlefield for HQs...and heck, apparently we can give him a hover chair with huge guns and energy shields. Save the High Prophets for a Special Character - maybe all three of them as a High Prophet Council.

[Triscuitable]

Yeah, it's not like the Prophets are even capable of anything meaningful combat-wise. At least with Chapter Masters and Imperial High Generals and stuff there's the implicit assumption that they are a stone cold badass rather than a floating bag of flab and brittle-bones on a shiny chair.

If they're anywhere on the field that just means that the side is in massive trouble and ET is about to get facepunched to oblivion, basically. This should be reflected somehow in the conversion, I feel.

You'd be surprised to learn then, that the reason the Covenant exists is because the Elites and Prophets could not best the other in battle. The "Prophet" hierarchs are just old, frail San 'Shyuum.

In prehistory, the (pre-devolution by Forerunner) humans and San 'Shyuum fought the Flood, and then the Forerunner alongside each other. The San 'Shyuum were exiled from Earth, and the humans were devolved into a primal state.

The San 'Shyuum are actually extremely badass. You just never get to see it. Oh, and those floaty chairs have really, really nasty plasma cannons in them.

[Tavar]

I thought part of the reason they couldn't best one another was that the Prophets had a partially working Forerunner ship, which was much more advanced than anything else either side could use.

[deuterio12]

There's actually an Inquisitor hero HQ choice in 40K that's an old decrepit man in a floating artifact chair filled with nasty tricks.

Yeah, it's not like the Prophets are even capable of anything meaningful combat-wise. At least with Chapter Masters and Imperial High Generals and stuff there's the implicit assumption that they are a stone cold badass rather than a floating bag of flab and brittle-bones on a shiny chair.

Actually, High generals are usually just slightly less squishy than their regular troops, barring named characters.

The true worth of an high general is directing their troops and keeping them in line. That's represented in-game with the IG commander HQ don't having that good combat stats, but having lots of support abilities. He's really useful in the field making all the other troops fight better, but he's screwed if he gets anywhere close an enemy elite unit.

[The Glyphstone]

There's actually an Inquisitor hero HQ choice in 40K that's an old decrepit man in a floating artifact chair filled with nasty tricks.



Actually, High generals are usually just slightly less squishy than their regular troops, barring named characters.

The true worth of an high general is directing their troops and keeping them in line. That's represented in-game with the IG commander HQ don't having that good combat stats, but having lots of support abilities. He's really useful in the field making all the other troops fight better, but he's screwed if he gets anywhere close an enemy elite unit.

Which is how I see Prophets on the battlefield working out. You think Covenant in battle are normally zealots, see them when they're actually being led by/defending a Prophet. Maybe you take a Prophet and choose from a small list of army-wide buffs, sort of like how Black Templars pick an army-wide Vow with their Champion, only the buff goes away if the Prophet is killed.

[Tavar]

This is pretty much how the two missions directly dealing with prophets work in Halo 2 and 3.

Oh, it also gives access to a couple special units: Honor Guard(either Brute or Elite) which are pretty powerful.

[Soras Teva Gee]

There's actually an Inquisitor hero HQ choice in 40K that's an old decrepit man in a floating artifact chair filled with nasty tricks.

Actually there' two I think.

This Guy:

Spoiler

Show

Nicknamed Lord Krazypantsoff but really named after Dostoyevsky.

And another guy who does the floating chair thing but doesn't seem to have any "official" model.

[Tiki Snakes]

Note that in one fight, that chair has beam weaponry and heavy duty shields. There's also that prophet used in Halo wars.

Still, I think those are best treated as abberations. Just use the brute/elite divide.

Funny, because literally all I can remember of those fights is clinging to the front of his chair cackling wildly and mashing him in the face. Honestly, it's all a weirdly euphoric blur for me.

[ChaosLord29]

So back to the current topic...

HQ choices:
Prophet
High Prophet (is this a thing?)
Brute Chieftain
Elite Captain (?)

Elite choices:
Brutes
Elites

Troop choices:
Grunt Squad
Jackal Squad

Fast Attack:
Jackal Skirmishers
Ghost Squadron
Banshee

Heavy Support:
Wraith
Scorpion
Hunter Team

Superheavy Tanks:
Scarab

Spec Ops units are an addition to that list in the Elites category. It's a team of Elites and Grunts who come with the active camo upgrade. Also, it should be noted that all HQ choices come with the option to field them with a retinue of Honor Guard.

That and we're going to make Locusts (from Halo Wars) available as a Heavy Support choice. It's the closest the Covenant come to a truly heavily armored vehicle and a Tank-Killer since it operates effectively as a mini Scarab.

I'm going to start compiling the Army List, Troop Stats and Wargear into a single post . . . but, reading through it thus far, I think it needs some serious rebalancing before I'd be willing to field a Covenant army in any 40k game. Right now they look like the Tau devoid of their super awesome ranged weaponry or the Eldar with really under powered Aspect Warriors and skimmers. Sort of like you took the weaknesses of both factions and combined them into a single, second rate army list.

[Triscuitable]

Funny, because literally all I can remember of those fights is clinging to the front of his chair cackling wildly and mashing him in the face. Honestly, it's all a weirdly euphoric blur for me.

As we've said before: the games are not being recognized as canon, as the Covenant is much more powerful than it is portrayed in the games. The games are recognized for story (like Keye's death, the Elites defecting later on, etc.), not the fact that the Prophets won't laser you on Easy.

The books, comics, and some details of Legends are being used for information.

[ChaosLord29]

Troops Characteristics-

Unggoy Grunt Minor
{table=head]WS|BS|S |T |W |I |A |LD|Sv
2|3|2|2|1|2|1|6|5+
[/table]
Unggoy Grunt Major
{table=head]WS|BS|S |T |W |I |A |LD|Sv
3|3|2|2|1|3|1|6|5+
[/table]
Kig-Yar Jackal
{table=head]WS|BS|S |T |W |I |A |LD|Sv
3|3|3|3|1|3|1|7|6+
[/table]
Kig-Yar Skirmisher
{table=head]WS|BS|S |T |W |I |A |LD|Sv
3|4|3|3|1|4|1|7|6+
[/table]
Yanme'e Drone
{table=head]WS|BS|S |T |W |I |A |LD|Sv
3|3|3|3|1|3|1|5|6+
[/table]
Sangheili Elite Minor
{table=head]WS|BS|S |T |W |I |A |LD|Sv
4|4|4|4|1|4|1|8|4+
[/table]
Sangheili Elite Major
{table=head]WS|BS|S |T |W |I |A |LD|Sv
5|5|4|4|1|4|1|8|4+
[/table]
Sangheili Zealot
{table=head]WS|BS|S |T |W |I |A |LD|Sv
6|5|4|4|2|4|1|9|3+
[/table]
Jiralhanae Brute Minor
{table=head]WS|BS|S |T |W |I |A |LD|Sv
4|3|4|4|1|3|1|7|4+
[/table]
Jiralhanae Brute Major
{table=head]WS|BS|S |T |W |I |A |LD|Sv
4|3|4|5|1|3|1|8|4+
[/table]
Jiralhanae Brute Chieftain
{table=head]WS|BS|S |T |W |I |A |LD|Sv
5|4|5|5|3|3|1|8|4+
[/table]
Mgalekgolo Hunter
{table=head]WS|BS|S |T |W |I |A |LD|Sv
4|3|6|6|3|3|1|7|2+
[/table]
San 'Shyuum Prophet
{table=head]WS|BS|S |T |W |I |A |LD|Sv
3|3|4|4|2|3|1|10|5+
[/table]

Army List-
HQ:
Sangheili Zealot (Sangheili Elite Cadre can be taken as Troop Choice); Jiralhanae Chieftain (Feel No Pain, Jiralhanae Brute Packs can be taken as Troop Choices); Minor Prophet (Can choose one Virtue which provides army wide bonus, 0-1 Choice); Major Prophet (Can choose two Virtues, 0-1 Choice); Honor Guard Retinue (Can accompany any HQ choice)

Elites:
Sangheili Elites (Major leading group of Minors); Sangheili and Unggoy Spec Ops Team (Active Camouflage; 0-1 Choice); Kig-Yar Snipers (Beam Rifles); Jiralhanae Brute Pack (Feel No Pain)

Troops:
Unggoy Lance (led by Sangheili Minor, with options for Needlers and Fuel Rod launchers); Kig-Yar Jackal Troupe (Zero point Shield Gauntlets)

Fast Attack:
Banshee (Jet Bike); Brute Chopper Gang (Bikes); Yanme'e Drone Swarm; Ghosts (Bike); Kig-Yar Skirmishers (Fleet-of-Foot); Prowler (Open Topped)

Heavy Support:
Mgalekgolo Hunters (Bonded Pair); Locust; Wraith

Troop Transport- Shadow: Any Infantry Squad or Two Ghosts/ Two Choppers/ One Prowler

An army cannot choose both a Sangeili Zealot and a Jiralhanae Chieftain; An army cannot choose more Jiralhanae, Kig-Yar, Sangheili, or Yanme'e units than it has Unggoy Lances

Wargear-
Weaponry:
Plasma Rifle- (Sangheili, Jiralhanae, Kig-Yar)
Range 18" Str 3 AP - Assault 2 (Gets Hot)
Plasma Pistol- (Sangheili, Jiralhanae, Unggoy, Kig-Yar)
Range 12" Str 3 AP - Pistol (Can be fired at Strength 5 AP 3 Heavy 1; Gets Hot)
Needler- (Sangheili, Jiralhanae, Unggoy, Kig-YarJ
Range 12" Str 4 AP 4 Assault 2
Spiker- (Jiralhanae)
Range 18" Str 3 AP 5 Rapidfire
Mauler- (Jiralhanae)
12" Str 5 AP 4 Pistol
Carbine- (Sangheili, Jiralhanae, Kig-Yar Skirmishers)
Range 24" Str 3 AP - Assault 1
Beam Rifle- (Sangheili, Jiralhanae, Kig-Yar)
Range 36" Str 5 AP 4 Heavy 2 (Rending; Gets Hot)
Brute Shot- (Jiralhanae, Prowler)
Range 24" Str 5 AP 5 Assault 1
Fuel Rod Gun- (Unggoy, Banshee)
Range 36" Str 8 AP 3 Heavy 2 Blast (Gets Hot)
Plasma Cannon- (Sangheili, Jiralhanae, Ghost, Banshee, Wraith, Prowler)
Range 24" Str 5 AP 5 Heavy 3
Assault Cannon- (Hunter)
Range 36" Str 9 AP 2 Heav 1 Blast
Plasma Mortar- (Wraith)
Range 48" Strength 7 Heavy 1 Ordnance
Plasma Beam- (Locust)
Range 36" Strength 9 AP 2 Heavy 1

Beam Sword- Power Weapon (ignore armor saves)
Gravity Hammer- Doubles Strenth, two-handed, ignores armor saves

Flare- Count as Frag Grenades
Plasma Grenades- Counts as Krak Grenades
Power Drain- Single Use, nullify all wargear on single enemy model; Auto glancing hit against a vehicle

Defensive:
Active camouflage - If a unit equipped with these did not shoot or Assault in the previous turn, all units shooting at it must roll as if using the Night Fighting rules.

Deployable Cover- Squad gets 5+ cover save for one turn

Jump Pack- Counts as Jump Pack

Overshield- 4+ Invulnerable save; lasts until first failed roll

Regenerative Shield Generators- Allow re-roll of armor saves.

Yig-Kar Zero point Shield Gauntlet- Any turn in which a unit equipped with these does not run, it enjoys a 4+ cover save.

Special Characters-
Thel 'Vadamee, Arbiter of the Sanghelli

{table=head]WS|BS|S |T |W |I |A |LD|Sv
7|7|5|5|3|5|2|10|3+
[/table]
Wargear:
Dual Plasma Rifles (Treat as twin-linked)
Plasma Grenades (Once rules for them are worked out)
Energy Sword
Arbiter's Combat Harness (as normal harness, but 3+ armor save)
Energy Shields (Allow re-roll of one failed save per round)
Active Camo (Single use, used at the beginning of a turn. All units shooting at Thel must roll as if using the Night Fighting rules.)


Special Rules:
Independent Character
Eternal Warrior
Fleet of Foot
Lightning Reflexes (Grants a 5+ Invulnerable save)
Fury of the Covenant (All allied Covenant units within 12" [including himself] are Fearless)

[Tiki Snakes]

As we've said before: the games are not being recognized as canon, as the Covenant is much more powerful than it is portrayed in the games. The games are recognized for story (like Keye's death, the Elites defecting later on, etc.), not the fact that the Prophets won't laser you on Easy.

The books, comics, and some details of Legends are being used for information.

Well, I've done most of the games on legendary, so that's probably not it.
I think it's just the sheer joy of smashing them in the face over-rides all my other memories of the fight to be quite honest.

Also, I'm not sure how good a source of canon Legends is, really. Especially uncomfortable with the idea of it being taken above the games themselves. It was entertaining enough, sure and had some nice touches but overall just seemed rather...loose.

[ChaosLord29]

As we've said before: the games are not being recognized as canon, as the Covenant is much more powerful than it is portrayed in the games. The games are recognized for story (like Keye's death, the Elites defecting later on, etc.), not the fact that the Prophets won't laser you on Easy.

The books, comics, and some details of Legends are being used for information.

That's sill and biased lol. Halo is a series based upon the games. For the same reason that the Star Wars films take precedent as canon before the books (which are in some cases better thought out, and in others definitely not), we should not make this conversation exclusive to just the books. Authors for every series take artistic license from other source material and seeing as how they are shooting for a dramatic portrayal of a specific series of events to construct their plot and conflict without having to give any thought to game balance, practicality, or relative challenge to the player, I think we should not be relying upon books and comics as our primary sources. They should fill in the gaps and clarify the games, but those should be our primary source.

To that end, I figured that the canonical account of Covenant troops in the games is either them on Normal mode (seeing as how that is, well normal), or them on Hard Mode (which is basically like the Covenant are all having a really good day). Since Easy Mode is more like the Covenant are having a really bad day and are substantially weaker in raw capacities, I'd say it's fair to assume that the Covenant across the board are somewhere between Normal Mode and Hard Mode, representing that everyone occasionally has good days or bad.

40k and Halo are both games, and since it would be a lot harder to try and create a video game out of 40k that pits them against the Covenant (to date I still don't think there's a good game out their which captures 40k mechanics, units, feel, etc.) I think putting the Covenant into 40k is our best option.

[Chess435]

Also:

Active camouflage - If a unit equipped with these did not shoot or Assault in the previous turn, all units shooting at it must roll as if using the Night Fighting rules.

[An Enemy Spy]

That's sill and biased lol. Halo is a series based upon the games. For the same reason that the Star Wars films take precedent as canon before the books (which are in some cases better thought out, and in others definitely not), we should not make this conversation exclusive to just the books. Authors for every series take artistic license from other source material and seeing as how they are shooting for a dramatic portrayal of a specific series of events to construct their plot and conflict without having to give any thought to game balance, practicality, or relative challenge to the player, I think we should not be relying upon books and comics as our primary sources. They should fill in the gaps and clarify the games, but those should be our primary source.

To that end, I figured that the canonical account of Covenant troops in the games is either them on Normal mode (seeing as how that is, well normal), or them on Hard Mode (which is basically like the Covenant are all having a really good day). Since Easy Mode is more like the Covenant are having a really bad day and are substantially weaker in raw capacities, I'd say it's fair to assume that the Covenant across the board are somewhere between Normal Mode and Hard Mode, representing that everyone occasionally has good days or bad.

What the heck is Hard Mode? There's Heroic and Legendary, both of which count as Hard Mode.
I personally think of Heroic as the most "accurate" difficulty, though trying to shoehorn the books into an artificial difficulty level feels rather silly. In the books, the weapons are treated as much more lethal than they are in the game, because frankly, bullets and superheated plasma bolts are a lot more lethal than portrayed in the games.