LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax

[Mystic Muse]

So, good news and bad news.


Bad news. Despite my dad sounding like he agreed not to tell anybody else, he outed me to my mom.

Good news. My mom took it pretty well (Could have been better, and could have been MUCH worse.), and in my opinion, my parents are the main hurdle.

[Mutant Sheep]

Make sure you watch the whole thing.

That's interesting. When he said that, I was like "aw snap he said segregation" and I thought the fumble was him.. actually fumbling at "crap i wrote that". The switch was sweet. That should have been the closer, because of its emotional context, but it works in the beginning too.

[Coidzor]

They get brought up almost always as a reminder that homosexuality is pan-cultural, and that treatment of them is culturally relative.

That's one facet of it, yes, but that facet seems to be vanishingly scarce in terms of the apparent motivations of the players.

[Lilac_Shade]

One of my friends told a bunch of people I was bisexual today. I'm not, but I didn't get the chance to correct her. Any tips on how to go about righting the situation?

[Coidzor]

One of my friends told a bunch of people I was bisexual today. I'm not, but I didn't get the chance to correct her. Any tips on how to go about righting the situation?

Well, I suppose I'd have to recommend finding out why she went and did that as well as who was told as part of the preliminary investigation before getting into the real decision making process as what to do with her and them.

How on earth did you not get the chance to correct her if you were present though?

[noparlpf]

I'd try telling the people you want to know you're not bi that you're not bi.

[Lilac_Shade]

Well, I suppose I'd have to recommend finding out why she went and did that as well as who was told as part of the preliminary investigation before getting into the real decision making process as what to do with her and them.

How on earth did you not get the chance to correct her if you were present though?

She didn't get that I could identify as gay and be attracted to more than one gender, so she assumed my orientation. I know who was present and will be with all of them again on Wednesday.

As to correction, honestly, my anxiety kicked in and I froze. Everyone left before I could fix it.

I'd try telling the people you want to know you're not bi that you're not bi.

I thought that might be a little weird to say out of context

[Kindablue]

That's one facet of it, yes, but that facet seems to be vanishingly scarce in terms of the apparent motivations of the players.

Since none of that is in that article, could you explain what you mean?

[noparlpf]

I thought that might be a little weird to say out of context

Just say, "Hey, remember how so-and-so said I'm bi? Well, that's not quite right, and it's been nagging me, so I wanted to clarify."

[Coidzor]

Since none of that is in that article, could you explain what you mean?

Well, there's the usual mild, illthought hypocrisy of saying that there's no putting people in boxes and then stating that being mildly effeminate would still pigeonhole one as a two-spirit rather a man, but I wasn't speaking of the article directly. I skimmed it, certainly, and the general tone rather reminded me of the kind of person who buys into the erroneous belief that the Americas never knew war until Columbus showed up, but that's neither here nor there.

Mostly I was speaking of the abominable facebook image macros and what people seem to actually take away from articles like that one.

[SiuiS]

Turns out there was a demonstration in Dublin today for trans rights but I only heard about it now so I wasn't there.

Sucks.

I've never really heard of people saying "male doctors" and "women doctors". I guess people are more likely to say "women doctors" than "men doctors", but I generally hear both "male" and "female". So... dunno! I use "female".

Actually, I got annoyed at a headline I saw the other day that was "Female Garda injured in bar brawl". If it'd been a male Garda, they would have just said "Garda". It's not important that she was a woman.

Huh. That's a cool word.
And yeah. It's an emotional appeal. "not only was a police officer injured, but she was female! More pity! More sympathy! More reason to aubscribe to our sensationalist paper!" Bleh.

SiuiS:

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I didn't say anything about you making a moral argument.

Ah, well no worries then.

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Indeed, but it didn't really seem pertinent to bring up in the first place. Also, cure is an odd word choice, because it implied either excising the causes for rape from humanity, which would make punishing rape in an attempt of debatable efficacy to deter it rather unnecessary, or managing to completely undo the social and personal ills and harm that it causes.

Yes. You have struck to the heart of it. Truth resists simplicity.

That is to say, that when you reduce a complex system to an A or B choice, one o those choices is accurate for that reduced presentation but cannot hold at the whole. It's a method of provoking thought, as seems to have worked, although you only got halfway. See, Bianca mentioned a preponderance of midieval torture as though it were sufficient. The tone was one of let us help people recover instead, an the instead made helping victims and hindering perpetrators mutually exclusive. By phrasin it in such a way, I achieve my goal of having Bianca see it from the other side. She may not agree, but she understands. That is the point of discourse.

You do not understand because you took my statement without the context which prompted it. I trust this corrects that oversight on my part?

I know that DnD vamps have that problem. And ones in a lot of fiction have similar (ranging from avoiding it to being burned alive by it)... I have no idea where it started, though. Or if it's in that book (which I should read at some point ).

It's not a vampire thing. Evil cannot abide crossing moving water. This is why Ichabod Crane made for the bridge in the sleepy hollow tale; it's a luminal boundary which prevents spiritual intrusion. Depending on how you look at it, it could be the cause of vampires in modern-ish times requiring entry to a home via invite. The running water in the pipes is weak but sufficient to keep them at bay.

I say this only because there are many tales of vampires crossing thresholds with ease an needing to be distracted by piles of rice and such.

The man-beast is a symbol for PMS or PMT, which turns some women into snarling monsters for a couple of days each month. The correct way to combat a werewolf is with chocolate, red wine and footrubs.

*hides*

...


>_>
<_<

Grr. I'm a werewolf~! Placate me.

Signed. I wish I knew more people to send it to.

Oh it's a net petition? *signs*

I think that's the benefit of having gendered nouns. We don't say "male doctor". We just say "doctor". For a female, it's "doctora". Much less confusing that way.

... I bet without gendered nouns, when someone says "teacher", they picture a female, and when they say "nurse", they picture a female too. And then when
they talk about a male, they go "male teacher" and "male nurse".

Yes actually! Me Da was a male nurse in the army. He hates that nurses are considered female.

And the same arguments were used against the abolitionists in the 19th century. But it's important to point out that there were religious people on both sides of the issue - it's not like there was a Christian monolith opposing the end of slavery and segregation. Or, indeed, LGBTA rights. In fact, I don't believe there's a Christian monolith regarding anything. Hell, we have a lesbian bishop in Sweden.

Yeah. Guys? Let's meander away from religion. Even the casual mentions are gettin a bit thick.

Hey all, just dropping in because I saw this I figured it might interest some of you, dunno if it's already been posted.

Related:

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Oh, neat. Thanks Diego!

So, good news and bad news.


Bad news. Despite my dad sounding like he agreed not to tell anybody else, he outed me to my mom.

Good news. My mom took it pretty well (Could have been better, and could have been MUCH worse.), and in my opinion, my parents are the main hurdle.

Hmm. Not entirely unwarranted. Parents act as a pair, and share things. It's acceptable, although it feels like a betrayal and means you can't quite trust one and expect the other not to know.

Still, glad things turned out okay.

One of my friends told a bunch of people I was bisexual today. I'm not, but I didn't get the chance to correct her. Any tips on how to go about righting the situation?

Just say, "Hey, remember how so-and-so said I'm bi? Well, that's not quite right, and it's been nagging me, so I wanted to clarify."

^

Nope beat me to everything I was gonna say. If context doesn't exist for something important you create context for it.

[Coidzor]

She didn't get that I could identify as gay and be attracted to more than one gender, so she assumed my orientation. I know who was present and will be with all of them again on Wednesday.

I'm honestly a tad frightened of what could have spawned this chain of events.

Kind of odd though, I must admit, usually one only runs into problems with that when it's being attracted to the opposite sex as well as the same sex but still identifying and proclaiming one's self as solely attracted to the same sex.

Once dated a girl sort of like that, in that she only ever actually pursued anything with or dated boys of all things. (Well, until Coidzor, anyway. )

But everyone's heard that one already, haha.

As to correction, honestly, my anxiety kicked in and I froze. Everyone left before I could fix it.

I'm sorry.

I thought that might be a little weird to say out of context

Eh... The context is you, them, and their perceptions of you, IIRC, which would extend to any situation wherein the two of you are in proximity and clarifying a misconception/miscommunication is rather part and parcel of the whole relationship between the two of you in this quasi-hypothetical rhetorical device. Any time that you'd be in real contact, then, well, it rather follows that the context extends and sooner is better than later for clarification and edification. Also, elucidation.

[Kindablue]

Well, there's the usual mild, illthought hypocrisy of saying that there's no putting people in boxes and then stating that being mildly effeminate would still pigeonhole one as a two-spirit rather a man, but I wasn't speaking of the article directly.

You mean hypocrisy by the American Indians or by people claiming them to be a model for a good society?

I skimmed it, certainly, and the general tone rather reminded me of the kind of person who buys into the erroneous belief that the Americas never knew war until Columbus showed up, but that's neither here nor there.

It seemed neutral almost to the point of being boring to me, which was the source of my initial confusion.

[Coidzor]

You mean hypocrisy by the American Indians or by people claiming them to be a model for a good society?

The latter is closer, though I'd probably choose a different term, though one eludes me at the moment.

It seemed neutral almost to the point of being boring to me, which was the source of my initial confusion.

I've probably just run into too many people who openly admitted they wanted to be Native American instead of White. Probably just a fluke of the problem with anecdotal evidence or observational bias.

[Astrella]

Hmm. Not entirely unwarranted. Parents act as a pair, and share things. It's acceptable, although it feels like a betrayal and means you can't quite trust one and expect the other not to know.

Iunno, I don't think that excuse really goes up here and it's sorta major breech of trust. :/

I'm really glad it turned out pretty well though, Mystic Muse.

[Coidzor]

Iunno, I don't think that excuse really goes up here and it's sorta major breech of trust. :/

I'm really glad it turned out pretty well though, Mystic Muse.

They're also a married couple who in this case ostensibly have some sort of healthy relationship and would thus theoretically know one another the best out of any other person in the world or at least be in the top 3 or 4. Expecting such a secret to be kept when the one told knows their spouse well enough to know it's not going to be a thing with them is setting one's self up for disappointment. :/

The chain of events here though, I must admit, is kind of odd. Though the fact that he merely "sounded like" he agreed rather than explicitly agreeing is sort of a sticky wicket, at least as far as our ability to armchair analyze.

[Mystic Muse]

They're also a married couple...

For now, but they've been living apart for about six months, and they're definitely splitting up.

[SiuiS]

Iunno, I don't think that excuse really goes up here and it's sorta major breech of trust. :/

I'm really glad it turned out pretty well though, Mystic Muse.

This is true. It gets in to many things. While it is easier to assume they have Muse's best interests at heart I cannot guarantee it. Not do I condone a breech of trust without cause. However...

They're also a married couple who in this case ostensibly have some sort of healthy relationship and would thus theoretically know one another the best out of any other person in the world or at least be in the top 3 or 4. Expecting such a secret to be kept when the one told knows their spouse well enough to know it's not going to be a thing with them is setting one's self up for disappointment. :/

The chain of events here though, I must admit, is kind of odd. Though the fact that he merely "sounded like" he agreed rather than explicitly agreeing is sort of a sticky wicket, at least as far as our ability to armchair analyze.

This is my ruling thought. The father may well have evaluated the situation and acted knowing that delivering the information himself would mitigate blowback that would complicate things hand they come up for the first time when Muse herself brought this subject up. I cannot know that, but I trust that the parents know each other and love their child. In your case, Lena, it seems apparent to me that this trust is not there, and they are not acting in your est interests. I would, having the context I do, not equate the two situations.

Parents are not infallible, but they are allowed special dispensation until such time as they prove they do not deserve it.

[nersxe]

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That is an incredibly good point! I haven't seen Glee in ages (I loved the music and anything Brittany said, and Kurt and Kurt's dad, but everything else got on my nerves so I stopped watching) but I remember hoping they dealt with how Quinn was treated. It makes sense to show it happen like that cause that's very realistic, but there should be some acknowledgement that it's horribly unfair.

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I jumped the shark on Glee because of that, actually. :|. I cannot in good conscience continue to watch a show that treats date rape as consensual (if in incredibly poor taste) sex between equals.

Someone (Helio, I think...?) mentioned something about "trending male" or "swinging male". Can someone explain that to me?

I really thought I was well-educated about queer things before I came to this thread. It's been less than a week and I have been quite thoroughly flabbergasted by the gaps in my knowledge. I'll just go... clutch my pearls or something while I wait on an explanation.

[Heliomance]

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I jumped the shark on Glee because of that, actually. :|. I cannot in good conscience continue to watch a show that treats date rape as consensual (if in incredibly poor taste) sex between equals.

Someone (Helio, I think...?) mentioned something about "trending male" or "swinging male". Can someone explain that to me?

I really thought I was well-educated about queer things before I came to this thread. It's been less than a week and I have been quite thoroughly flabbergasted by the gaps in my knowledge. I'll just go... clutch my pearls or something while I wait on an explanation.

Oh, don't worry, I'm just weird.

Basically, I'm genderfluid, my gender identity swings from male to female and back again on a roughly monthly basis. I just hit male again a couple of days ago.

[nersxe]

Oh, don't worry, I'm just weird.

Basically, I'm genderfluid, my gender identity swings from male to female and back again on a roughly monthly basis. I just hit male again a couple of days ago.

So, you switch from male to female and back? Is it like... stages? As in, "definitely male" -> "mostly male" -> "probably male" -> "kinda in-between" , etc.?

(Don't answer if you don't want to [or if I'm crossing some line here]; I'm just incredibly curious and trying to understand what you mean.)

[Heliomance]

It's usually pretty sharp and definite. This time I started feeling a bit uneasy about being female Thursday night, and woke up Friday morning feeling definitely male. Sometimes I go through intermediate stages - androgyny or gendermeh (the former I define as wanting people to look at me and not be sure if I'm male or female, the latter I define as simply not caring either way) - but normally it's pretty well defined.

[Asta Kask]

It's not a vampire thing. Evil cannot abide crossing moving water. This is why Ichabod Crane made for the bridge in the sleepy hollow tale; it's a luminal boundary which prevents spiritual intrusion. Depending on how you look at it, it could be the cause of vampires in modern-ish times requiring entry to a home via invite. The running water in the pipes is weak but sufficient to keep them at bay.

I say this only because there are many tales of vampires crossing thresholds with ease an needing to be distracted by piles of rice and such.

The symbolism is the same though. Curses in ancient times were either bad luck or disease. Again, diseases have difficulties crossing running water and is held at bay by salt (by preventing putrefaction). So vampires are a special case.

[The Succubus]

The LGBTAP NaNoWriMo Challenge!

Hey folks!

I had a rather cool idea on the train home this morning. As some of you may know, November is National Novel Writing Month and I had a really spiffy idea for us all. The normal format of NaNoWriMo is a 50,000 word story written over the course of the month but I'd like to tweak the idea slightly for us.

The challenge, should you choose to accept it is write a story based on this premise:

Science has finally achieved a lifelong dream of many folks in this thread and created the Aphrodite Machine. This wondrous device basically turns someone into the opposite gender in the space of about 30 minutes. The figure that steps out of the machine is still recognisable as the person that went in but a flawlessly transitioned version. So for example, a man with red hair and grey eyes steps in and a woman with red hair and grey eyes steps out. One small catch is that using the machine will render you infertile, so unfortunately people that use the device will never be able to have children.

So your story could be from the perspective of the person creating the device, it could be someone using it for the first time or a friend that has a relative/friend using it - pretty much anything you like, provided you stick to the core concept. If you've ever read the short story collection "Machine of Death", this is the LGBTA version of it.

Naturally, we're not looking for a 50,000 word behemoth from each of you - this ideally would be a collection of short stories - maybe 10k words or so.


Any takers?

[Asta Kask]

Can it be used several times on one person? So Helio could visit it once a month?

[The Succubus]

Yep. As I said, the core concept has to remain the same but there's a lot of free reign with the details. So the way the machine actually does it or how the process feels is entirely down to you.

Oh, and then at the end of the month, we can post them up here for folks to enjoy.

[Heliomance]

Infertility is easily taken care of the way we do now - bank reproductive material beforehand.

[gunnar11]

It's usually pretty sharp and definite. This time I started feeling a bit uneasy about being female Thursday night, and woke up Friday morning feeling definitely male. Sometimes I go through intermediate stages - androgyny or gendermeh (the former I define as wanting people to look at me and not be sure if I'm male or female, the latter I define as simply not caring either way) - but normally it's pretty well defined.

Wow, you just described my sexual preferences with utmost accuracy!
I've got the same, but not with my body, but with partners of interest. One day I may feel attracted to women, that night I'm not sure anymore and the next day I'm attracted to men.

It's quite weird, really

The LGBTAP NaNoWriMo Challenge!

Hey folks!

I had a rather cool idea on the train home this morning. As some of you may know, November is National Novel Writing Month and I had a really spiffy idea for us all. The normal format of NaNoWriMo is a 50,000 word story written over the course of the month but I'd like to tweak the idea slightly for us.

The challenge, should you choose to accept it is write a story based on this premise:

Science has finally achieved a lifelong dream of many folks in this thread and created the Aphrodite Machine. This wondrous device basically turns someone into the opposite gender in the space of about 30 minutes. The figure that steps out of the machine is still recognisable as the person that went in but a flawlessly transitioned version. So for example, a man with red hair and grey eyes steps in and a woman with red hair and grey eyes steps out. One small catch is that using the machine will render you infertile, so unfortunately people that use the device will never be able to have children.

So your story could be from the perspective of the person creating the device, it could be someone using it for the first time or a friend that has a relative/friend using it - pretty much anything you like, provided you stick to the core concept. If you've ever read the short story collection "Machine of Death", this is the LGBTA version of it.

Naturally, we're not looking for a 50,000 word behemoth from each of you - this ideally would be a collection of short stories - maybe 10k words or so.


Any takers?

Sounds awesome!
I'm willing to write here anyway, but I was also thinking of some sort of counterproposal:
IF we do it by mail, we could (all who are interested) write a story together. This means that while someone only has inspiration for 500 words, he sends it to the next person, and that one continues. This way, you we all create 500.000 words together, while still making it a sensible story that's easy to follow when reading.

How 'bout it?

[Coidzor]

Aphrodite machine? Is it marketed solely at transwomen then? I call shenanigans on the marketing executives!

[The Succubus]

Sounds awesome!
I'm willing to write here anyway, but I was also thinking of some sort of counterproposal:
IF we do it by mail, we could (all who are interested) write a story together. This means that while someone only has inspiration for 500 words, he sends it to the next person, and that one continues. This way, you we all create 500.000 words together, while still making it a sensible story that's easy to follow when reading.

How 'bout it?

Could do both - some folks can submit short stories on their own, if others want to group together for theirs, that's cool too. I'd prefer several small stories so that the idea can be explored from different angles.

Aphrodite machine? Is it marketed solely at transwomen then? I call shenanigans on the marketing executives!

/smack

It's the best I could come up with on the spur of the moment but no, it is equally capable of transitioning women to men.