Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

[Network]

Also I have a pretty long thing about the classes from the current contest if anyone wants to see and promises not to get mad about scathing comments. If I review things I focus on the negative so don't typically say stuff if not asked. I did not cover the plant one in detail.

I would like to see it too.

[ben-zayb]

The simple answer to that is 2 things: 1 as written it's unclear whether they have to make multiple saves against an effect each round allowing you to force multiple saves or lose in a round (since touch attacks will hit almost always) or 2 if you go with 2-Weapon Fighting you can go with a sneak attack style build which struck me as a little off and got worse when you add on the bonus damage and save or lose effects even if those were only suffered once per round.

Immense thanks for the critique and suggestions! Honestly, my idea with iterative lobotomies is supposed to function somewhat similar to the Duskblade's Arcane Channeling, in that while full-attacking multiple opponents should individually affect them of any Essence Chirurgery on a Lobotomy, no more than one Essence Chirurgery effect can be applied to an opponent per turn. I believe that would scale the power down immensely from what it seems to be before, based on the critique.

On the topic of SA damage levels, I'd say that it was actually on purpose and sort of the standard that I set in terms of damage output minimum. However, I am leaning towards limiting it to one weapon at a time, in light of possible TWF/MWF interaction.

I'd clear more things up in the class description after the contest is over. However, I gotta say that this is a really good start on how to further polish the class mechanics and balance.

[Zaydos]

I would like to see it too.

At this point I'm giving it to creators only, because well partially some of the problems are that they aren't polished because they are contest classes and I know how some things don't get noticed until after the deadline...

That reminds me I need to repost Dragon Chorister with the ability I forgot (free ranks in Perform [Vocal]).

Immense thanks for the critique and suggestions! Honestly, my idea with iterative lobotomies is supposed to function somewhat similar to the Duskblade's Arcane Channeling, in that while full-attacking multiple opponents should individually affect them of any Essence Chirurgery on a Lobotomy, no more than one Essence Chirurgery effect can be applied to an opponent per turn. I believe that would scale the power down immensely from what it seems to be before, based on the critique.

On the topic of SA damage levels, I'd say that it was actually on purpose and sort of the standard that I set in terms of damage output minimum. However, I am leaning towards limiting it to one weapon at a time, in light of possible TWF/MWF interaction.

I'd clear more things up in the class description after the contest is over. However, I gotta say that this is a really good start on how to further polish the class mechanics and balance.

I'd actually like to see it in play once it's a little more polished, even now it looks like it could use testing to polish things (and see where the wording is unclear etc).

[Network]

At this point I'm giving it to creators only, because well partially some of the problems are that they aren't polished because they are contest classes and I know how some things don't get noticed until after the deadline...

Epic fail! My class is in the contest, actually. It's the Apostle of Madness, just in case.

[Xhosant]

He means, to each their own. He'll only send you the Apostle, that is.


I'd like to see thought on mine as well, it didn't go too well but I'm satisfied, my experience considered, so I'd like to hear another's thoughts.

[Zaydos]

Epic fail! My class is in the contest, actually. It's the Apostle of Madness, just in case.

He means, to each their own. He'll only send you the Apostle, that is.


I'd like to see thought on mine as well, it didn't go too well but I'm satisfied, my experience considered, so I'd like to hear another's thoughts.

No he's right it's an epic fail, I only remember a few of the names and mostly through avatars. I'll send him his, but I didn't do yours thoroughly because by that point my brain was shutting down.

[Xhosant]

Arborist

[Quellian-dyrae]

I'd be interested in seeing mine.

[GuyFawkes]

I would appreciate to hear what you have to say on my class as well. It was rather a bit late submitted and didn't benefit from any output from anyone else, so I'm sure there are a lot of things that needs to be worked on.

[Zaydos]

Arborist

The plant one, which I mentioned I didn't go over in detail (I mostly saw enough of the Flowers to realize they were mostly RP restriction based which requires a certain type of setting and DM to work and there's no real way to gauge their power balance).

I would appreciate to hear what you have to say on my class as well. It was rather a bit late submitted and didn't benefit from any output from anyone else, so I'm sure there are a lot of things that needs to be worked on.

I'll send it to you. Though it does remind me, I couldn't find a way to use the Maximum Insanities without waiting a turn between parts of the combo which I really wasn't sure was even allowed (you have a maximum of 23 Delirium it takes 25 to use them). And it was more than halfway through the class I finally thought of 2WF (which makes hitting with the later deliriums much easier).

[GuyFawkes]

Thanks for the critique, Zaydos. Still reading and I pretty much get what you say there. I've had similar reservations to some points you mentioned, but you just gotta post it to hear what other people think.

For the Maximum Insanity attacks, you could actually do them the first round via the Delirium Overload ability.

Delirium Overload (Ex): Delirium Blades of 18th level break through the limits of their insanity and venture deeper into the realms of Delirium. She can opt to acquire Delirium Points beyond her maximum per level. However, each round that she has more Delirium Points than her maximum per level, her Delirium Junkie ability stops working, and she instead suffers a penalty to attack rolls, damage rolls, AC, and saves equal to half the value over the maximum.

[Zaydos]

Thanks for the critique, Zaydos. Still reading and I pretty much get what you say there. I've had similar reservations to some points you mentioned, but you just gotta post it to hear what other people think.

For the Maximum Insanity attacks, you could actually do them the first round via the Delirium Overload ability.

Somehow I missed that ability all together Sorry about that. I'd have given the Maximum Insanity attacks more detailed inspection if I had noticed it.

[GuyFawkes]

Well.

It's not too late now.

If you have the time, of course. I intend to post it after the contest anyway as it really hasn't been critiqued yet. As you pointed out in yours, it really screams of being an alpha as of now, and there are a lot of things left to be done.

[Zaydos]

Well.

It's not too late now.

If you have the time, of course. I intend to post it after the contest anyway as it really hasn't been critiqued yet. As you pointed out in yours, it really screams of being an alpha as of now, and there are a lot of things left to be done.

Nah, I'm critiqued out for now.

I think I've given people enough reason to hate me until the next contest

Serious answer, though, I went through all of them in 2 days, I'm not surprised I started thinking I had read stuff I hadn't at least at some point in that, and my brain is still reeling. Besides I have to get started on my idea for the Inner Planes in case it gets the vote (I got a brew bunny for it ).

[Rosstin]

I just want to state that this is by far the best series of "chef" thread on the whole forum. The threads are a treasure trove of brilliant ideas, many worthy of actually being in a sourcebook.

[sengmeng]

Edit : I know its late to ask, but a PEACH on the Apostle of Madness would be appreciated.

Sorry about that. I was too busy to even fix my own class. I owe you a PEACH.

[Soliloquy]

I just want to state that this is by far the best series of "chef" thread on the whole forum. The threads are a treasure trove of brilliant ideas, many worthy of actually being in a sourcebook.

A sourcebook? That's a good idea.

[Zaydos]

So when is the next contest? Has it even been decided yet? Tried to find it and failed.

[Temotei]

So when is the next contest? Has it even been decided yet? Tried to find it and failed.

I let the votes for the next theme come in until the voting thread for the current contest closes, usually.

[Jester of Doom]

I'll vote in favor of the Inner Planes as the next contest theme.

[Zaydos]

Well I'm glad to be able to say I have a good idea what I might make if Inner Planes wins: An elemental themed/genie descended invocation using class.

[Cheesy74]

I'd love to see a critique for the Fury, Zaydos. I have thick skin so this sounds perfect.

On the note of critiques, Silva, a player in my current game (higher level) is looking at playing the black blood vanguard. I'll see if I can send you some feedback on how it performs in mid-high play (level 13+).

[malonkey1]

What's the current chart for the themes?

[Temotei]

What's the current chart for the themes?

I hadn't posted even close to the top of this page, so I didn't post it this time, but I keep updating the previous. Here it is for convenience.

{table=head]Theme|Votes|Voters
Something Bad Luck|0|
Slack and Hash (food)|0|
Inner Planes|8|Amechra, ben-zayb, BlasphemousSlug, Jester of Doom, Silva Stormrage, sirpercival, Xhosant, Zaydos
Time|0|
Alternate Magic|3|InstinctsKill, malonkey1, Tavar
NPCs|0|
Steam and Sorcery|1|GuyFawkes
SPAAAAAACE|1|Cheesy74
Metagaming MAAAAANNNIIIIAAAAAA|0|
Variable Magic|1|Network[/table]

[Soliloquy]

Do the material, ethereal and shadow plane count as inner planes?

[Xhosant]

No, since they are transitives and the material, respectively.

That said, adding a little of them on a class based on the others is fine, or so I'm told. But you'll have to use the elemental+energy ones to justify theme.

[Zaydos]

I've been kicking around ideas for my class... ok I'll be honest I've been brewing 80+ invocations for it, building the chassis, and I was forced to go hiking the other day so I had nothing to do but think and walk and that's how I've always done my best creative stuff so... rambling sorry.

The point: I've got a question. If we want to make a PrC to build off of our class what are the guidelines for posting it? Wait till after the tournament? Post it in a different thread linking back to the tournament (feels unfair to do)? Are there any guidelines?

PrC idea if anyone is interested:

Spoiler

Show

My idea for the class is a theoretically genie descended invocation using class (hopefully doing some interesting/different things with invocations) and I remembered the Khayal from Tome of Magic and thought that a PrC for those descended from the genies of the Plane of Shadow would be an interesting take; give them a few different abilities some better stealth and an expanded list of invocations that they can take while in this class/after finishing the class. Oh yeah and make the class accessible to warlocks as well, because they have enough of a darkness theme I could see justifying one of them as being descended from a shadow genie as easily as justifying a class built to be elemental themed with limited (primarily genie-themed) non-elemental powers*.

*I consider invisibility an elemental power.

Edit: Yeah I have a little Ethereal planar stuff in mine (one invocation) planned because of tradition (I loved 2e Planescape fluff and the Ethereal was connected to the Inner Planes in 2e instead of just the Prime, but the Astral wasn't connected to them at all and the Plane of Shadow was an etheral demiplane).

[Temotei]

The point: I've got a question. If we want to make a PrC to build off of our class what are the guidelines for posting it? Wait till after the tournament? Post it in a different thread linking back to the tournament (feels unfair to do)? Are there any guidelines?

Basically, no.

Go crazy; new mechanics, new feats, new items, and everything else you can think of are fair game!

Every contest has this bit. The prestige class should have a really strong tie to the base class, however, if you're entering it in the same post/posts. The MUHA contest required at least six levels in a base class to enter a prestige class; I'm not going to set a hard limit like this, but strong ties to the base class should be present in the prestige class (mechanically and fluff-wise). If you're not sure, just wait until after the contest, though if it shows itself to be problematic and it's in the same thread, I'm not going to disqualify you or anything for trying. I'll just say it in here and not include the prestige class as part of the voting process if left up. I doubt that'll come up, though.

I like your idea.

[Soliloquy]

Shouldn't that be 5 levels?

[Temotei]

Shouldn't that be 5 levels?

Maybe it was. I dunno. That contest died after the first one.