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2013-02-04, 07:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
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2013-02-05, 12:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Fluff is complete, Principles are complete, first Insights are posted... I could feel good about myself if not for how much more work everyone else has done.
If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.
I'm always extremely careful to hedge myself against absolute statements.
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2013-02-05, 08:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- In the Playground. Duh.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Well, my class is up. Gotta work on writing up ALL the gadget descritions. If somebody could look at my class and tell me if the language is clear, that'd be awesome.
White is my color for internal monologue. (without the black highlight, of course)
Judge's choice in the Pathfinder Grab Bag XIX
Spoiler
Avatar by the ever-brilliant Ceika
Paizocarnum - A 3.p update of Incarnum, now in PDF!
The Beastmaster: Master of Beasts! (Pathfinder homebrew class)
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2013-02-05, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Alrighty, the base mechanics of the Astronomer are finished. I've started work on the Phenomena and Constellations, and the fluff will be added soon as well.
Someone already told me they want to play one in a PbP that's starting up, so I'm going to try and finish as quickly as possible. If anyone wants to take a gander at the mechanics, that would be lovely.(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
gitp extended sig
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2013-02-05, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
I'll give it a look once I finish my tea. Tea is serious business.
If someone wants to give a look to my verbosity, I mean the aperturing process I would really appreciate it. I might be too complex and I might be pretty bad at translating my thoughts.
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2013-02-05, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
gitp extended sig
minmaxboards extended sig (more stuff)
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2013-02-05, 02:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Everything fine up till here. UMD would need a (Cha) after it but it is minor nitpicking.
Cool no dead levels, I would also put the phenomena behind the class features (again this is nitpicking.
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Astronomer.
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: An Astronomer is proficient with all simple weapons and light armor, but not with shields.
Observe phenomena (Su): When learning your trade under the watchful eye of prestigious scientists, you have learned that by and large the denizens of the world are woefully unobservant. Perhaps it is simply that the common folk are untrained, but from your experience there are strange and often dangerous astronomical phenomena happening every day. Why, you have simply to look through your spyglass to see something (usually quite painful) happen to your enemies out of the blue sky.
You can "observe" (read: create) effects called Phenomena by looking through a spyglass as a standard action. You are limited to observing phenomena that you know, and also by properties of your surroundings called Conjunctions. You may only observe phenomena whose Conjunctions are active, and once you observe a phenomenon, the active Conjunctions change, as described in the Phenomena descriptions below. You may observe a maximum of one phenomenon per round. Your Observer Level for phenomena is equal to your Astronomer level, and the save DC for any phenomena you observe is 10 + 1/2 Observer level + your Intelligence modifier. You may not observe a given phenomenon more than once per encounter.
You begin play knowing 2 phenomena from the list below, and learn more as shown on the table above. The only Conjunctions automatically active at the beginning of an encounter are the [Day], [Night], or [Sheltered] Conjunctions, which are generally obvious, and cannot be changed except by certain specific phenomena. Only one of those Conjunctions is active at any given time.
You can add a new Conjunction or change an existing Conjunction by making a Spot check (DC 10 + three times the number of already-active Conjunctions) through a spyglass as a move action. Conjunctions reset at the end of each encounter, and you can have a maximum number of Conjunctions active at any given time equal to half your class level (rounded down, minimum 1) active at any given time; if a Constellation or Phenomenon would increase the number of active Conjunctions past this limit, you choose which Conjunctions to deactivate. The [Day], [Night], and [Sheltered] Conjunctions do not count against this limit.[/quote]
Even if the [day], [night] and [shelter] are obvious I would define them somewhere.
Do those three conjunction [day], [night] and [shelter] count for determining the DC of adding more conjunctions? That would make the basic DC a 13.
This is a source of cheap spyglasses. Since they normally cost 1000 gp having a lot more around for a cost 10 times lower, might be a bit destabilizing. It also works as a masterwork (better than masterwork tool actually) of spot. I would make it grant the +2 circumstance bonus to anyone using it, but key the spyglass effect and the Int instead of wisdom to you.
Cool
You can make lucid dreaming checks with spot checks (using int instead of wis) on an int focused class? The same for autohypnosis... It might be a bit strong.
Int to hp? Thanks the cosmos that their class skill list is a bit limited (well they have UMD) but this leads to a good deal of int sadness.
Some of this are pretty good and would make dipping this a really good idea for an Int SAD build. The names are awesome though.
I assume that you can only create one orrey, can you? Because if you construct them you might be able to construct as many orreys as you want and that would be complicated.
I will make it also increase based on the number of conjunctions. Otherwise cool.
See invisibility is a 2nd level wiz spell, so it seems okay to me to have it at 5th lvl.
Again I am doubting the limitation on how many of this devices you can create, a note saying that you cannot benefit from using more than one would be nice.
Again a 3rd level spell at 9th level seems completely cool.
Again, this is using an "item" (how many items can you carry around) also I would specify a duration. And not a long one since you still have quite a lot of uses.
Does it replace the Torquetum? I mean can you have an Armillary sphere and a Torquetum? They are class features but they are also items, and that might be a bit complicated. Perhaps upgrade the Torquetum into an Armillary sphere.
Cool
So you can create spyglasses in an hour and then you can use them to cast scrying a number of times per day equal to your Int modifier multiplied by the number of spyglasses that you have. And they are pretty cheap at this level too. This is pretty great for divination (but I doubt this is what you were looking for).
Again I would upgrade the armillary sphere.
This is the first time that knowledge (the planes) appears in the class, it is cool though.
So basically this allows you to use the conjunctions in another plane, instead of where you are. I was under the assumption that conjunctions changed everyday; I hope they don't anymore since the check takes more than a day. I checked again and the conjuctions reset at the end of every encounter. So why would anyone use this capstone?
Overall it seems really attractive and surely has potential, I don't really get the capstone, I believe that some astrolabe techniques are a tad powerful, and the wording of some "item" dependent class features could be changed to clarify that you cannot use them more than the limited number of times per day if you have several items.
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2013-02-05, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Thanks for the read-through!
I'm not sure how to make this clear, but other than the spyglasses which you actually have to use, the "items" in the other class feature only exist in fluff-space. That's why there are no crafting rules or effects for them. The ability allows you to do exactly what it says you can do; having multiples of {item} doesn't benefit you in the slightest.
Also, the abilities which let you use the spyglass for divination don't function per spyglass, it's based solely on you.
And the thing about cheap spyglasses is... there is absolutely no reason for spyglasses to be so prohibitively expensive. Their benefit is rather minor compared to the price, so it doesn't bother me to have 100gp spyglasses running around. Most commoners won't be able to buy them anyway, and you can't break the bank by selling them for more than they cost you to make.
For Sextant Mastery, the DC is already based on the number of other Conjunctions; this just increases it by 3 for that particular check.
More responses: Yes the class is SAD... is it problematically so? It has poor BAB... I can drop the hit die to d4, if that helps with the hit points thing. Also, I'll write a little clarification for the 3 basic conjunctions.(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
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2013-02-05, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Yeah I don't have a problem with cheap spyglasses either.
The "items" on fluff space are cool too (although for the ones tat are improvement of previous class features I would actually replace them).
The SADness of the class is probably good as it is, the most broken stuff can probably be done via feats (faerie mysteries initiate) or are based on skill checks (such are lucid dreaming) that are broken on the first place.
Once the conjunctions and phenomens are up I will check those and give some more comments.
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2013-02-05, 03:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Freljord
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
I admit, I had a chuckle. I'll take it as a compliment. I'm even nigh-tempted to sig it, which I rarely do.
I keep telling you, Temotei, you should sleep more on the right times! You worry me sometimes.
At any rate, I'll be going with a very modest concept for this challenge. Extremely modest even. Extremely modest, and evocative of terrible, terrible things.
And, occassionally, great ones.
SpoilerThe Teacher.
Because hey, that's science too.Homebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries
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2013-02-05, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Sometimes the left times are the ones for me. I feel like a split personality. Left, right, fight the wight, up, down, do what's truly right. Sleep just doesn't fit into the rules; rest is the only thing for me--and my mules.
Hope you enjoyed this short rap, because if you didn't, I'll take an extra kneecap.
SpoilerThe Teacher.Last edited by Temotei; 2013-02-05 at 05:21 PM.
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2013-02-05, 07:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Re: Astronomer -
For the Star Chart levels, what about "Minor, Major, Nebula, Galaxy"?
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2013-02-05, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
gitp extended sig
minmaxboards extended sig (more stuff)
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2013-02-05, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Gluttonous Adept is up. I know that we didn't end up doing food as the theme, but it is tentatively tied to science (in the sense that he eats foes to gain knowledge, sort of a gastrointestinal experiment). Also, I just had such a fun time with his fluff I had to do it.
My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).
Avatar done by me (It's Durkon redrawn as Salvador from Borderlands 2).
Nod, get treat.
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2013-02-07, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).
Avatar done by me (It's Durkon redrawn as Salvador from Borderlands 2).
Nod, get treat.
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2013-02-07, 11:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Redundant phrases are bolded.
Star chart (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, you learn to make a Star Chart, which is a method of focusing on particular Constellations, stellar patterns in the sky. Once per day, you can study your Star Chart for 1 hour to focus on any Constellation (see Constellations, below). The Constellation you choose grants you the Planet benefit (as described in the particular Constellation description), and also grants you a set of Inferior Conjunctions at the beginning of each encounter. At 8th, 14th, and 20th level, you unlock a new tier of Constellation benefits and Inferior Conjunctions.
After 24 hours, without any intervention on your part, the heavens turn, and you automatically focus on the next Constellation in the progression, granting you the benefits and Inferior Conjunctions of that Constellation as normal. You can focus on a different Constellation after 8 hours of rest, by studying your Star Chart for another hour.
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2013-02-07, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Why thank ye! Fixed.
So, for clarity, when you focus on a particular constellation, the level appropriate Inferior Conjunctions for that constellation are auto-activated at the beginning and end of each encounter, and all other ICs are deactivated?
I'm going to be changing the format for phenomena slightly, just as a warning.Last edited by sirpercival; 2013-02-07 at 11:12 PM.
(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
gitp extended sig
minmaxboards extended sig (more stuff)
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2013-02-07, 11:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
...gods dammit I forgot all about this. And now all the cool stuff has fallen out of my head.
Oh well. Guess I'd better get back into the swing of things. Rather than write more Insights, I'm going to make a start on fleshing out the rest of the class and clarifying Understandings.If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.
I'm always extremely careful to hedge myself against absolute statements.
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2013-02-08, 02:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
If anyone would look over what I have thus far, and give me what critique they can offer, I'd be glad to reciprocate.
If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.
I'm always extremely careful to hedge myself against absolute statements.
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2013-02-08, 07:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Since you said you'd critique the flamewaker, I figured I'd remind you of that by critiquing the savant.
Spoiler*Fluff*
GAME RULE INFORMATION
Savants have the following game statistics.
Abilities: The savant depends first and foremost upon Strength or Dexterity or even both, depending on his choice of combat style. Intelligence is a close second or third because of how it modifies insights. Finally, Constitution is as ever important for hit points, and Wisdom and Charisma can provide welcome bonuses to savants wishing to focus on the corresponding skills.
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8
Starting Age: As barbarian.
Starting Gold: As fighter.
Class Skills
The Savant's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are...
Skill Points at First Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier
Also consider Speak Language (None).
You could also lower the skill points per level to 4 + Int modifier since they're so Intelligence-focused if you don't plan on having a bunch of class skills.
Alternatively, just give them all class skills like the factotum.
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Savants are proficient in the use of all simple and martial weapons. They are proficient with light armour, but not shields.
All other class features go here (Use the format shown directly below if you don't know what to do.)!
Clarity (Ex): A Savant's mind does not work quite like most peoples'. As a free action, a savant can enter a state of heightened clarity. While in this state he gains a +6 insight bonus to Spot and Listen. He may also choose one of the three Principles - Precision, Speed, and Defence (see below). He gains that Principle's benefit as long as the state of clarity lasts. He may dismiss the clarity as a free action, and cannot sustain it longer than his level divided by two, round up. If he falls unconscious then the clarity immediately ends. Once the clarity subsides, he cannot reclaim it for a full minute.
Speed's benefit should be looked at, for sure. I'm assuming the additional attack roll is made at a -5 penalty like iterative attacks? It's not stated. Second, it says if you hit with the "lower" attack, you deal damage equal to your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the original target. This implies that it's two separate attacks, not simply two attack rolls. Also, if so, does the lower attack actually deal damage aside from your Str or Dex modifier? Lastly, does the higher attack deal any damage?
Defence (it pains me to spell it this way): Does the attack happen directly after the opponent's attack? If so, just make it a no-action deal, because free actions can only be taken on a creature's own turn.
Weapon Familiarity (Ex): Training in a specific weapon seems pointless when one can simply find the correct techniques on a whim. When entering a state of clarity, any feats that the Savant may have which apply only to a chosen class of weapon apply to whatever weapons he may use (including unarmed strikes and grapples), so long as they are valid choices for that feat. For example, a second level savant has the feat Weapon Focus (longswords). While he is in a state of clarity, all of his attacks with any weapon, or even with unarmed strikes or grapples, gain +1 to attack. If he had both Weapon Focus (longswords) and Weapon Focus (longbows), he would gain the benefit only once, because Weapon Focus cannot stack with itself.
Focus (Ex): A savant can heighten their mind to impossible powers of deduction in a state of clarity, but they can also enter a lesser state, known as focus. This state may be entered as a full-round action, and lasts only long enough for the savant to attempt a single skill check (chosen when the state is entered) or apply an Understanding. If focus is used for a skill check, the savant counts as trained even if he is not, and may take ten regardless of circumstances. This state is taxing, and the savant is fatigued for five minutes at its conclusion - if he was already fatigued, he cannot achieve focus. While focusing, he takes a penalty to all checks other than the skill check or those required by the Understanding which he is applying equal to his class level, and is automatically flat-footed. Any attacks or non-opposed skill checks made against him during this period gain a bonus equal to his class level.
Insights (Ex): As the Savant sees the world about him and comes to understand it, he begins to learn the nuances of the Principles. He learns Insights as indicated on the table. He may only learn a Insight if he has first learned all of its prerequisites. At the start of each of his turns while under the effect of Clarity, he brings one of his Insights into effect. He must already have all of the prerequisites in effect, as well as the benefit of that Insight's root Principle.
Does activating Studied Efficiency (Precision) take an action? It seems not. That's fine. This is mostly for clarification.
Can Subduing Technique (Precision) be used with sneak attack for extra nonlethal damage with a lethal weapon?
Vicious Blow (Precision) is going to be quickly outscaled by creatures' Fortitude saves if it's just modified by Int modifier. Adding a 1/2 class levels part would make it scale better for that, if you want it to.
Maybe rename Crippling Strike (Precision) to Crippling Blow because Crippling Strike is an existing feat? Your choice, but it would clear up confusion over that if anyone had any. It's also kind of weird that compared to Vicious Blow/Vicious Stance, despite it being a higher-level insight, even if the opponent is just sickened, Vicious Blow still applies a -2 penalty on a bunch of things that probably outweigh the Strength damage (3.5 average, which is about -2). The main difference is the duration, which sort of makes up for it, but at the same time, the penalty on saving throws might still beat out the damage because of helping out the spellcasters. Crippling Strike is also stuck being a full-round action.
Can you combine Knockout Blow (Precision) and Studied Efficiency (Precision)? What about those two and Subduing Technique (Precision) all together (amounting to 2d6 extra damage, made into lethal and nonlethal because of Knockout Blow along with a +1 on the attack)?
Does Rebound Strike (Speed) work with Speed's inherent benefit?
Understandings: Often, a savant can achieve insights and feats that seem impossible without even knowing how he does it himself. These abilities, known as Understandings, are freely available to all savants of sufficient level. In order to apply an Understanding, the savant must use his Focus ability and forgo the skill-related benefit in favour of the Understanding. Once the savant commits to an Understanding he may not take any other actions until it is activated without ruining the Understanding and spoiling his ability to focus for five rounds, during which time he suffers penalties as though still focusing on the Understanding. The savant is limited in his Understandings as shown on the table. Unless otherwise noted, Understandings are Extraordinary abilities.
Is there any limit on how many rounds the savant can concentrate for Sense Disturbance?
Does the one-week study period in Study Foe assume the savant has nothing to go on in the first place? Does the +2 bonus stack with favored enemy if the savant is multiclassed into ranger?
Greater Focus (Ex): When a savant focuses on a skill check, they gain the bonus indicated on the table.
Dual Principle (Ex): While Clarity holds his mind, the Savant is able to see not merely the aspects of combat, but their interactions. When entering a state of Clarity, he may select two Principles instead of one, and gains the benefits of both while the Clarity lasts.
Can you combine Defence's benefit with Rebound Strike (Speed), since it's an attack action (free action instead of no required action), after all?
Synthesis (Ex): Unlocking his potential, the Savant grasps for the first time the whole of his philosophy, rather than aspects of it. When entering a state of Clarity he gains the benefits of all three Principles.
True Focus (Ex): When focusing on a skill check, the savant may forgo the bonus to the check which he is entitled to have and instead replace his dice roll with a 30.
Maybe add another capstone? Something that really adds to the class's flavor rather than just making the savant better at something they were already good at.
Really, the biggest issue with the class right now is finding interactions among insights and making sure they don't get out of hand. Work on those and you'll be fine.
Hope this helps.
EDIT: I realized that my critique takes up a lot of space, so it's in spoilers now.Last edited by Temotei; 2013-02-08 at 08:04 PM.
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2013-02-08, 09:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Fair play. I'll get to that after I make a few clarifying edits. Further comments are bolded in my quote, because otherwise this would take up allthespace.
Spoiler
Looks good. Show that arrogance in a quote and it'll be even better.
Casting around for one.
Seems fine.
After reading through the class, I think they should have the following: Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), and Spot (Wis).
Also consider Speak Language (None).
You could also lower the skill points per level to 4 + Int modifier since they're so Intelligence-focused if you don't plan on having a bunch of class skills.
Skills remain something I'd like to think about, but I'll take your suggestions into consideration.
Alternatively, just give them all class skills like the factotum.
I don't want to do this, though Focus and its improvements are sort of a second place in that respect.
Looks fine.
Remove this.
Woops.
The duration is in rounds, correct? State that. Also, do you choose a principle once and forever use that principle, or do you choose it upon every use of clarity?
Thanks, I'll clarify that.
Speed's benefit should be looked at, for sure. I'm assuming the additional attack roll is made at a -5 penalty like iterative attacks? It's not stated. Second, it says if you hit with the "lower" attack, you deal damage equal to your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the original target. This implies that it's two separate attacks, not simply two attack rolls. Also, if so, does the lower attack actually deal damage aside from your Str or Dex modifier? Lastly, does the higher attack deal any damage?
Ugh. I'll need to clean up the wording on this... the intent was similar to Shadow Blade Technique from Tome of Battle.
Defence (it pains me to spell it this way): Does the attack happen directly after the opponent's attack? If so, just make it a no-action deal, because free actions can only be taken on a creature's own turn.
It does. I've been playing 4e for too long.
And it's not my fault you crazy Americans spell it wrong.
This looks good.
You'd think the savant would get better at avoiding danger while focusing with experience, rather than the other way around. Perhaps make it so the bonus for checks against him is a flat +4 or something? Although, Heal and helpful Use Magic Device checks would gain a bonus on him, as would the epic DC 80 use of Sleight of Hand, so that's nice.
The intent was that at higher levels he becomes more intensely focused... but since that's not represented until Greater Focus, I'll include the scaling in that class feature.
Do you automatically learn all insights you qualify for? It seems like that's not what you intended, given that some insights have previous ones as prerequisites (and that's it).
No, you do not - I'm working on an Insights Known table, but it's nowhere near ready.
Does activating Studied Efficiency (Precision) take an action? It seems not. That's fine. This is mostly for clarification.
It does not, though it does take an action to reassign. I'll clarify.
Can Subduing Technique (Precision) be used with sneak attack for extra nonlethal damage with a lethal weapon?
Yes, it can - once again, I'll clarify.
Vicious Blow (Precision) is going to be quickly outscaled by creatures' Fortitude saves if it's just modified by Int modifier. Adding a 1/2 class levels part would make it scale better for that, if you want it to.
Good point. I'll consider, but I'll probably add in 1/2 level.
Maybe rename Crippling Strike (Precision) to Crippling Blow because Crippling Strike is an existing feat? Your choice, but it would clear up confusion over that if anyone had any. It's also kind of weird that compared to Vicious Blow/Vicious Stance, despite it being a higher-level insight, even if the opponent is just sickened, Vicious Blow still applies a -2 penalty on a bunch of things that probably outweigh the Strength damage (3.5 average, which is about -2). The main difference is the duration, which sort of makes up for it, but at the same time, the penalty on saving throws might still beat out the damage because of helping out the spellcasters. Crippling Strike is also stuck being a full-round action.
Rename will be done. And note that Crippling Blow/Strike can stack with itself indefinitely, while Vicious Blow/Stance are limited to one-off effects. I will probably include a higher-level Insight to reduce the action of Crippling Strike, but wanted to consider how high-level it should be.
Can you combine Knockout Blow (Precision) and Studied Efficiency (Precision)? What about those two and Subduing Technique (Precision) all together (amounting to 2d6 extra damage, made into lethal and nonlethal because of Knockout Blow along with a +1 on the attack)?
Knockout Blow and Studied Efficiency combine just fine. Subduing Technique should not allow you to make all of the damage one or the other - I will clarify that.
Does Rebound Strike (Speed) work with Speed's inherent benefit?
There's no reason why not.
Does Find Weakness work against all objects up to Medium size regardless of weight? Shatter has a weight limit, which is why I ask. If the weight limit exists, make sure to mention that your class levels count as caster levels for the purpose of that attack.
All Medium objects. Anything that the PCs get their hands on for half an hour could probably have been smashed up already.
Is there any limit on how many rounds the savant can concentrate for Sense Disturbance?
No limit.
Does the one-week study period in Study Foe assume the savant has nothing to go on in the first place? Does the +2 bonus stack with favored enemy if the savant is multiclassed into ranger?
Woops. The one week study period is a legacy from when I allowed no material as an option, but on reflection I decided it was silly and mostly removed it. The bonus should stack - I'll clarify.
A'ight.
This clears up the issue about choosing one principle permanently or choosing one every time you enter clarity, though you'll still want to clean up clarity's wording. This allows insights to be used from both principles, correct? If that's the case, Rebound Strike (Speed) combined with Knockout Blow, Subduing Technique, and Studied Efficiency (all Precision) will do much more than intended, it seems, applying sneak attack to multiple enemies while also doing bonus nonlethal damage, assuming all of them can be used together.
It does allow combining Insights from multiple principles. The issues with Rebound Strike can be cleared up by making it a volley-style attack to which Sneak Attack applies only once - I'll fix that up.
Can you combine Defence's benefit with Rebound Strike (Speed), since it's an attack action (free action instead of no required action), after all?
Hmm. You shouldn't be able to, but it's possible that with the present wording you can. I'll see if I can work out a way to clarify.
Whoo.
That's nice, though for a capstone, it's kind of okay. In the end, it's a +22 bonus if you were going to take 10 anyway, which is big, but it's a capstone...
Maybe add another capstone? Something that really adds to the class's flavor rather than just making the savant better at something they were already good at.
I intend to.
Really, the biggest issue with the class right now is finding interactions among insights and making sure they don't get out of hand. Work on those and you'll be fine.
Thanks. Yeah, that was always going to be the biggest challenge.
Hope this helps.
Sure did!If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.
I'm always extremely careful to hedge myself against absolute statements.
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2013-02-08, 10:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Knockout Blow and Studied Efficiency combine just fine. Subduing Technique should not allow you to make all of the damage one or the other - I will clarify that.
That's what I meant. It's fixed now, though.Last edited by Temotei; 2013-02-08 at 10:17 PM.
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2013-02-09, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
White is my color for internal monologue. (without the black highlight, of course)
Judge's choice in the Pathfinder Grab Bag XIX
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Paizocarnum - A 3.p update of Incarnum, now in PDF!
The Beastmaster: Master of Beasts! (Pathfinder homebrew class)
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2013-02-09, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
0what you did there. I see0
/isityodaorisitportalsHomebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries
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2013-02-09, 10:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
I have the descriptions for the gadgets up. If there's somebody willing to PEACH it, I'd be happy to PEACH in return.
White is my color for internal monologue. (without the black highlight, of course)
Judge's choice in the Pathfinder Grab Bag XIX
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Avatar by the ever-brilliant Ceika
Paizocarnum - A 3.p update of Incarnum, now in PDF!
The Beastmaster: Master of Beasts! (Pathfinder homebrew class)
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2013-02-10, 10:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
I'm determined to actually finish my entry this time. 'Siren' was a bit too ambitious of a project during the army combat competition, and 'Weaver of Life' is only a little less so, but his phenotype list should be relatively short for each entry.
At least, I hope I can finish it this time. The legal-like terminology required, I think, is really much harder than writing the actual class.
*prays for motivation*
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2013-02-10, 11:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
New to making classes for the most part but I like where this is headed so far. Kinda ambitious with the whole 'stealing other races abilities' thing but hey SCIENCE! However I have a question.
I was wondering if there was a better way to do the Challenge Rating or if this is fine. Its decent and relatively simple to remember and use, and gives everyone a chance to actually find the trap but outside of epic levels... lets everyone find the trap. If its fine I'll let it go just popped into my head that rouges are the only class that can find a trap past CR 20, I believe it is, a CR only reached through epic levels by the current ability description.
If you have any other advice or critiques I would also be glad to see those.High Priest of the Fellowship of Xykon's Blade.
Member of below-average standing in the Class-Maker Guild.
Thanks to linklele for my Avatar.
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2013-02-11, 09:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Perhaps the scaling changes as you level up?
At first, the maximum is Lvl-3.
Later, it could become Lvl-1
Finally, it could increase to LVL+1. That way, at lower levels, everybody has a chance to find it, but higher-level traps will need specialization.White is my color for internal monologue. (without the black highlight, of course)
Judge's choice in the Pathfinder Grab Bag XIX
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Avatar by the ever-brilliant Ceika
Paizocarnum - A 3.p update of Incarnum, now in PDF!
The Beastmaster: Master of Beasts! (Pathfinder homebrew class)
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2013-02-11, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2013-02-11, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Last edited by sengmeng; 2013-02-11 at 07:13 PM.
My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).
Avatar done by me (It's Durkon redrawn as Salvador from Borderlands 2).
Nod, get treat.