The Voice of Optimization

[LordBlades]

sometimes, you need to self-regulate your characters so you don't outshine the party and someone doesn't have fun.

This should work both ways. Sometimes others need to step up their game not to make you need to cripple yourself to the point your character is no longer fun to play.

[Slipperychicken]

But don't you get it? You will never master your demonic powers and you will kill yourself if your character dies!

...What did I just read.


That is the worst DM ever. And the worst players ever (I could see why they'd want Marcie out of the game, though. She probably screams like that every time she fails a save). And the worst battlemat ever (5x10 squares? Seriously? And they have minis the size of soda cans).

I guess it explains why people hate Divinations and play Sorcerers instead of Wizards, if Divinations and Wizards make you "an abomination unto the lord".

[Snowbluff]

I guess it explains why people hate Divinations and play Sorcerers instead of Wizards, if Divinations and Wizards make you "an abomination unto the lord".

Wait... what?

She was totally playing a cleric in the third panel... unless it's a GESTALT CAMPAIGN! Gestalt is made of Satan!

[Xodion]

This should work both ways. Sometimes others need to step up their game not to make you need to cripple yourself to the point your character is no longer fun to play.

The problem with this approach is that while you can almost certainly bring your character down to their level, they might not be able to bring their character up to yours. I play in two games with quite different levels of experience in D&D, and your approach would work for one group but not the other.

The first game has me and another good optimiser as well as other experienced players, and while we both tend to play lower tier classes to not outshine the others we are all pretty optimised and have fun.

The second game was aimed squarely at some of our friends who do not have much experience with D&D and are put off by the complexities of the mechanics, but still want to have a go and do some roleplaying. I am the only optimiser in this game, I have the power level turned right down and I still outshine at times though I try to minimise it. The DM and I have talked about what we can do to help the others shine more, and I am moving into more of a support/buff role to help them do better.

I understand that not everyone would be happy in the second game, but my point is that you should be able to negotiate and arrange the power levels you are all happy with, and be aware of other people's wishes and capabilities. If you can't negotiate and you don't feel you can play at a power level you are happy with, then this is probably not the right group for you - nobody should be forcing anyone else to play in a way they do not want.

[Twilightwyrm]

I am, what one might call, a voice of reasonable optimization. I was the one who originally taught my current group the game, and in doing so emphasized a more "concept before mechanics" philosophy, but as more campaigns began, and hence more character concepts emerged, I've nevertheless been the one to try and generally steer the other members away from the various pitfalls that lurk within the system (convincing the evoker not the ban transmutation, for instance). However, even if it is entirely possible to role-play, quite well, an optimized character, this invariably places mechanics before concept, thereby limiting what concepts a character can play with. Thus I tend to keep my suggestions to within a person's already chosen concept.

[rockdeworld]

I am in my group too. I like making the game easy, and get power-high. Like a kid, I like (relatively) big numbers. I just found out about chicken infested the other day, and considered asking the DM if I could play a Warforged Commoner 1 to get Survivor at level 2... And deal NI damage =P

I ran two campaigns, and learned (roughly) how to balance power against the rest of the party, and how to help them have fun. Now I don't really mind playing at the group's level. Everyone has a role to fill anyway.

Of course, the DM still doesn't trust me, since a few years ago we did the Hinterbite module and my first words were "okay, before I go into the town, I cast Planar Binding." He's used to a lower level of play, and recently was suspicious of my Lesser Aasimar character because he gets a +2 in Wisdom and Charisma without a -2 anywhere.

[Slipperychicken]

Wait... what?

She was totally playing a cleric in the third panel... unless it's a GESTALT CAMPAIGN! Gestalt is made of Satan!

I was talking about the bible quote after the bottom panel.


EDIT: The DM referred to Debbie's character as a Wizard in the 1st panel, and a Cleric in the 3rd... Either she's playing two characters (or there's some weird multiclass/gestalting going on), or the DM has no f***ing clue what she's doing.

EDIT II: RPG Boogaloo: Maybe Debbie's Wizard died, so she rerolled as a Cleric who got to 8th level.

[demigodus]

When I call optimization 'not inherently unproblematic', I mean pretty much what you describe, but I do believe the optimizer is just as much to blame for any problem developing as the non-optimizers.

I fully agree with this. Maybe I just misread your initial post but I had read it as you putting all the blame on the optimizer. Equal blame (until one side makes concessions), I am fine with.

[Zubrowka74]

While I lean heavily on the side of RP (D&D was made just for that) I do believe RP and optimization are independent. But there is a point where it blurs, that's when you bend the fluff to fit around the crunch. I think it should be the other way around and I really do think that D&D is made with this in mind, hence the little care for balance and all the broken stuff. Of course, maybe low-power campaigns where every player is a beggar with low ressources might not be your cup of tea. To each his preference.

Also, lets not confuse optimizers for power gamers and munchkins. If you use a build you picked up on the internetz just so you can have an "I Win" button you are destroying the game. If everything in the campaign is high OP, you HAVE to build your character this way.