General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

[tonberrian]

Wait until 3e?

[JMobius]

Wait until 3e?

Given the scope of the setting tweaks, this is probably a very good idea.

[Fortuna]

Good idea or no, it probably means missing my chance. I'd be surprised if the group holds together much past this next campaign, if it even sticks around that long - I'm starting university this year, and the rest of the group is in high school, so scheduling may start to be a concern.

[Friv]

http://rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=54093&date=1357592924

Seven levels of hell.

RTJ thread isn't up yet, not going to put a limit on how many of each exalt type can be used.

You will see an application from me as soon as I reach my home and my books. :D

Out of curiousity, why the shift away from "one of each type"?

[Turalisj]

Eh, didn't want to restrict people like that.

[blazingshadow]

umm...where can i find info on the kukla? i keep reading all these things that it's a godzilla kind of elemental but that's it. does it have stats?

[Turalisj]

If the Kukla has been released, the game is over. Period.

[tonberrian]

umm...where can i find info on the kukla? i keep reading all these things that it's a godzilla kind of elemental but that's it. does it have stats?

Not as such, no. We've been promised Greater Elemental Dragon stats before, but they haven't been delivered. There's an entry on the Kukla in... I want to say Rolls of Glorious Divininty? But it's regarded as pretty terrible.

[RPGuru1331]

Because the Creator Gods of the universe are fully punchable, but an Earth Elemented Kaiju is untouchable. I'm not the biggest fan of the Kukla's memetic/canon status, one might guess. And no, it basically never gets a writeup.

[Plague of Hats]

Because the Creator Gods of the universe are fully punchable, but an Earth Elemented Kaiju is untouchable. I'm not the biggest fan of the Kukla's memetic/canon status, one might guess. And no, it basically never gets a writeup.

That's a bit unfair. In First Edition, yes, the Kukla's "stats" were terrible. In Second Edition, it was included as a signpost, but no solid stats were given because of both word count, and because there was no one available to bang out proper stats for it. You'll note that even by the end of Second Edition, there still was no one, good set of go-to rules for "fighting big things." It was all a mish-mash, and once the writers got out from under both the grueling pre-Ink Monkeys publishing schedule and the during-Ink Monkeys dearth of contracts to put real work into, we got three of the best books of Second Edition and then started winding up Third.

Plus, those stats for the Authors of Existence are actually really, really lame.

[RPGuru1331]

Oh, the Yozis rarely get good stats too, I know. The difference is, the writing rarely seems to forget that when it was time to punch an Elder God, those jerks all got punched to hell and back. Was it hard? Yes, fairly, and given that the Solars have 0 support from the other Exalted, and are halved in number, entirely losable in a rematch, sure... but still punchable. With the Kukla, WW has an obnoxious habit of, well, not remembering that the Exalted already punched their omnipotent creator gods in the face. I mean, I get it, a kaiju destroying tokyo rather than being punched out is traditional, but it's still annoying.

[Gensh]

I've found the dice that Malfeas rolls when he decides to grace the table:

[Turalisj]

Got the guy spot with a probable for the harem game, but could use a couple more girls.

[Friv]

Oh, the Yozis rarely get good stats too, I know. The difference is, the writing rarely seems to forget that when it was time to punch an Elder God, those jerks all got punched to hell and back. Was it hard? Yes, fairly, and given that the Solars have 0 support from the other Exalted, and are halved in number, entirely losable in a rematch, sure... but still punchable. With the Kukla, WW has an obnoxious habit of, well, not remembering that the Exalted already punched their omnipotent creator gods in the face. I mean, I get it, a kaiju destroying tokyo rather than being punched out is traditional, but it's still annoying.

My favorite on the Kukla's wonky stats was in the 1e Autochthonian book, where it suggested that a being as mighty as the Kukla could only be defeated by an alliance of dozens of Exalts working together... or alternately by a single Thousand-Forged Dragon whose stats were thoughtfully provided, and were rather less than some characters I've seen.

I've found the dice that Malfeas rolls when he decides to grace the table:

Sweet.

[Turalisj]

My favorite on the Kukla's wonky stats was in the 1e Autochthonian book, where it suggested that a being as mighty as the Kukla could only be defeated by an alliance of dozens of Exalts working together... or alternately by a single Thousand-Forged Dragon whose stats were thoughtfully provided, and were rather less than some characters I've seen.

Game designers woefully underestimate the ability of a player to make a powerful character. News at 11.

[Lea Plath]

So, I'm kinda looking at getting back into Exalted. I've got most of the 2E books sitting around. Some PDF. But the 2E Core, Lunar and Abbysal books.

Think I should try to sell them off before 3E? What is the general consensus on 2E?

And is there any new stuff worth knowing about? My knowledge extends up to the possible meta plot thingy, return of the scarlet empress and the directions book for Auto-giant-robot-dad-city-world-place. Is there anything interesting that followed?

[JMobius]

So, I'm kinda looking at getting back into Exalted. I've got most of the 2E books sitting around. Some PDF. But the 2E Core, Lunar and Abbysal books.

Think I should try to sell them off before 3E? What is the general consensus on 2E?

Depends who you ask. The Ex3 dev team is pretty leery of most of it, so I would not expect too much of 2E to translate.

And is there any new stuff worth knowing about? My knowledge extends up to the possible meta plot thingy, return of the scarlet empress and the directions book for Auto-giant-robot-dad-city-world-place. Is there anything interesting that followed?

Masters of Jade, if you're interested in the Guild and how mortals can achieve power even in a world filled with Exalts and other stranger things. It is probably going to be useful as 3E setting material, more so than most other books.

[Lix Lorn]

There was also Shards of the Exalted Dream, which offers some cool alternate versions of the setting, as well as Burn Legend.

[The_Snark]

Oh, the Yozis rarely get good stats too, I know. The difference is, the writing rarely seems to forget that when it was time to punch an Elder God, those jerks all got punched to hell and back. Was it hard? Yes, fairly, and given that the Solars have 0 support from the other Exalted, and are halved in number, entirely losable in a rematch, sure... but still punchable. With the Kukla, WW has an obnoxious habit of, well, not remembering that the Exalted already punched their omnipotent creator gods in the face. I mean, I get it, a kaiju destroying tokyo rather than being punched out is traditional, but it's still annoying.

In some of White Wolf's other games (mostly World of Darkness), the books are written with the assumption that the PCs are small fish in a big pond, and going up against the setting's major powers in a straight-up fight is basically suicide. I think some of this attitude occasionally bleeds through into Exalted—not surprising, given that at least some of the early writers worked on both games, and that it's sometimes hard to tell the difference between "here's a ridiculously powerful enemy, if you fight it you're dead" and "here's a ridiculously powerful enemy to challenge you." But yeah, it can be irritating.

In the specific case of the Kukla... I prefer it more as a setting-level threat than a personal-scale threat. In my (entirely theoretical game), a circle of powerful Exalts could fight and defeat it, but during the course of the fight there will be tidal waves, earthquakes, cities wiped from the map by the lashing of the Kukla's tail, shadowlands purged, Creation shattered and remade... all the stuff the Kukla is supposed to do when unleashed. The real challenge isn't winning the fight, it's preventing all that—or dealing with the aftermath.

[blazingshadow]

i just looked at dreams of the first age and it says the kukla has been released before on purpose as a training excercise for the deliberative.

[Turalisj]

Ignore anything from Dreams. That book has as many problems in it as FATAL.

[Lord Raziere]

Tura, please don't exaggerate needlessly and make ridiculous comparisons.

please, ignore the fandom. they have a tendency to take whatever they feel is a problem, then make a mountain out of a molehill from it and act like its THE thing thats ruining Exalted forever and should be destroyed yesterday, making problems normally not very noticeable into big obvious disasters and thus making it worse from putting so much emphasis on it and inflating it beyond what the problem actually is.

[Tavar]

Considering the developers themselves think Dreams of the First Age was one of the worst things to happen to Exalted, I'm not sure he is exaggerating.

[aetherialDawn]

I'm afraid I have to go with Tavar and Turalisj that DotFA is simply too problematic to be treated as reliable canon.

I'm not sure about the comparison to FATAL, but only because FATAL is that bad. Certainly, it does not reflect any better on DotFA.

[Drascin]

Considering the developers themselves think Dreams of the First Age was one of the worst things to happen to Exalted, I'm not sure he is exaggerating.

Here's the thing. It's true Dreams doesn't contain a single idea that has the slightest merit. It's basically drivel.

But from that to the actively noxious pit of bull**** that is FATAL, there's a pretty big distance.

[RPGuru1331]

FATAL says a bunch of ridiculously racist and sexist garbage. Ya sure DotFA has 'as many problems'?

In the specific case of the Kukla... I prefer it more as a setting-level threat than a personal-scale threat. In my (entirely theoretical game), a circle of powerful Exalts could fight and defeat it, but during the course of the fight there will be tidal waves, earthquakes, cities wiped from the map by the lashing of the Kukla's tail, shadowlands purged, Creation shattered and remade... all the stuff the Kukla is supposed to do when unleashed. The real challenge isn't winning the fight, it's preventing all that—or dealing with the aftermath.

That sounds just peachy keen to me, at least. I mean, I don't think these things could or should be easy either.

[Friv]

Here's the thing. It's true Dreams doesn't contain a single idea that has the slightest merit. It's basically drivel.

But from that to the actively noxious pit of bull**** that is FATAL, there's a pretty big distance.

Agreed.

There are a lot of ideas in Dreams that are decent, or at least fixable. The only way to salvage anything from FATAL is with the power of cleansing fire.

[omegalith]

Guys, It's just pretty standard usage of casual conversational hyperbole.

I could say Metroid Other M is a worse game than a version of Superman 64 that comes with a peripheral that sprays hydroflouric acid into your face every time you fail the ring-flying segments.

From that you can safely infer both my opinion of the game and the fact that I don't literally prefer the idea of repeated acid baths.

[Qwertystop]

Guys, It's just pretty standard usage of casual conversational hyperbole.

I could say Metroid Other M is a worse game than a version of Superman 64 that comes with a peripheral that sprays hydroflouric acid into your face every time you fail the ring-flying segments.

From that you can safely infer both my opinion of the game and the fact that I don't literally prefer the idea of repeated acid baths.

Um... Really? I mean, Other M's story and characterization was horrible, but the gameplay wasn't that bad, was it?

And is there any part of Superman 64 that isn't the ring-flying?

[omegalith]

Um... Really? I mean, Other M's story and characterization was horrible, but the gameplay wasn't that bad, was it?

And is there any part of Superman 64 that isn't the ring-flying?

Well, to remain entirely clear I did think the gameplay was pretty bad by the standards the series had set- But even if I didn't my objections to the characterization and storyline alone would suffice for the purposes of my example of the use of hyperbole.

Superman 64 does have other sections, it's simply that most stop playing before they ever see them.

That said, now that I've made my clarifications that's probably enough of a derail for now.