[Comics] Are We in the New 90s?

[Jayngfet]

As Zrak said, it was "If we get out of this alive" moment, those happens in situations like the one DK were then and Shinning Knights response was also appriorate.

And turning back to say few words to other person during the march* - nothing innpriorate at it at all.

* - And no, they weren't running. At that point they weren't even attacked or anything.

Sorry Jayngfet, no offense, but I get the impression that you just simply dislike this idea and try to hammer some excuse for hating it into the comics, even if things you talk about are clearly not there.

I don't hate the idea because, and this is a thing I believe I mentioned once before, I've been mostly positive on the way it was done elsewhere. As well, implying I have some sort of prejudice that excuses my arguments is a low, low blow and you should be ashamed of yourself.


But this didn't strike me as an "if we make it out of here" thing either. Mostly because there wasn't any urgency to it. There was no "In case we die soon", they didn't say it while they kept moving(this was the ONLY time they stopped during that sequence), and there was no real rhyme or reason given for why. You can assume it was an "in case we make it out of here" thing, but the fact of the matter is that going by context, wording, facial expression, and general body language that wasn't the case.

[Fan]

As Zrak said, it was "If we get out of this alive" moment, those happens in situations like the one DK were then and Shinning Knights response was also appriorate.

And turning back to say few words to other person during the march* - nothing innpriorate at it at all.

* - And no, they weren't running. At that point they weren't even attacked or anything.

Sorry Jayngfet, no offense, but I get the impression that you just simply dislike this idea and try to hammer some excuse for hating it into the comics, even if things you talk about are clearly not there.

*knock knock*

Mr.Reality here, coming at you with some hard truth.

I've dated trans girls / men before, and have many trans friends. The whole idea of Shining Knight, a character I followed as far back as the JLU cartoon when I first got into comics, doing the trans thing is latching onto a similar concept done in Fate / Stay Knight and the reception of "Arturia" in that, and the general alternate mythology they built up being so well received. The media buzz a semi recognized character gets from a change in identity, and the associated audience they can draw in with a character that they can relate to that they couldn't before.

"Sir Justine", is by no means well written, I understand that he is a D list character, C list on his best day, but the random injection of minorities and alternate life styles into comics is being shoe horned for the purpose of having them rather than integrating them into the existing character. New 52 or not, they changed a lot of things that shouldn't be changed. They took Jon out of the Justice League, put Cyborg in while removing him from the Titans to replace him with a less iconic character, and New Superboy is somehow worse than Emoboy Prime.

I also know Jayng personally, there's no prejudice there, it's criticism approaching the direction they've taken with the comic, and with the character. New 52 in general has been preforming poorly, and writing quality has taken a huge hit even since Flash Point with the exception of a few good comics that have maintained my faith throughout.

[Kalmarvho]

Uh, Emoboy Prime and Superboy have no connection. New Superboy is basically the new52 incarnation of Conner Kent, the clone Superboy who emerged after the death of Superman, and who died fighting Emoboy Prime during the Infinite Crisis.

[Fan]

I...

I..

I never said that they were related.

I just said that the new Superboy was WORSE than the Superboy he was.

[Kalmarvho]

Of course you didn't say they were related. But making a comparison between two characters the way you did implies some kind of causal link.

And anyway, this is more in line with what a comic book thread should be: arguing about trivial junk born of misunderstanding.

[Man on Fire]

*knock knock*

Mr.Reality here, coming at you with some hard truth.

Considering rest of your post, I say you are not Mr. Reality.

I've dated trans girls / men before, and have many trans friends.

And that makes you an authority on the subject and I should abide to your wise words? Tony Harrirs is nice for his wife and other women from his family. Didn't change a fact he's a sexist, women-hating prick.

The whole idea of Shining Knight, a character I followed as far back as the JLU cartoon when I first got into comics, doing the trans thing is latching onto a similar concept done in Fate / Stay Knight and the reception of "Arturia" in that, and the general alternate mythology they built up being so well received. The media buzz a semi recognized character gets from a change in identity, and the associated audience they can draw in with a character that they can relate to that they couldn't before.

I think you are confusing few things here. First of all, if you really followed Shinning Knight from cartoon to comics, then I think you should know that Shinning Knight was a crossdressing woman since Grant Morrisson's Seven Soldiers from 2005. If anything, I also sinicerly doubt that they are or were trying to cash in on reception of female King Artur in fate/stay night. First, because they're things aimed at two differend audiences and second, because I honestly doubt anybody at DC even heard or gives a damn about Japanesse Visual Novels market. Just because one thign reminds you of another doesn't mean that they're copying each other. Etrigan, Ghost Rider and Devilman are three demonic superheroes who were all created in the same year and all were well-recived by their respective audiences are you going to tell me that Jack Kirby tried to rip-off Go Nagai?

"Sir Justine", is by no means well written, I understand that he is a D list character, C list on his best day, but the random injection of minorities and alternate life styles into comics is being shoe horned for the purpose of having them rather than integrating them into the existing character.

So in other words you say that character i badly written, because of being made a minority/alternate life style while they previously weren't? I say you are just nostalgic.

New 52 or not, they changed a lot of things that shouldn't be changed. They took Jon out of the Justice League, put Cyborg in while removing him from the Titans to replace him with a less iconic character, and New Superboy is somehow worse than Emoboy Prime.

"Because completely different people on completely different books changed things in a way I don't like, therefore that means that all change is bad", that's what you're saying here.

I also know Jayng personally, there's no prejudice there, it's criticism approaching the direction they've taken with the comic, and with the character.

From how it sounds it's criticism based only on the fact you liked the previous incarnation of the character and hate the idea there even was a change in the first place, not the execution.

As well, implying I have some sort of prejudice that excuses my arguments is a low, low blow and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I did not tried to imply you are prejuiced, I said you hate the idea, not that you hate transexuals or anything like that.

But this didn't strike me as an "if we make it out of here" thing either. Mostly because there wasn't any urgency to it. There was no "In case we die soon", they didn't say it while they kept moving(this was the ONLY time they stopped during that sequence),

Ladies and gentlemen, I present you a man who complains about comics he clearly didin't read. Sorry, but at that point you are saying things contradicting what happened in the comics in question. I that situation I'm done arguing with you - I have better things to do than talking with somebody who rejects reality and tries to force his own version on me.

[Jayngfet]

Ladies and gentlemen, I present you a man who complains about comics he clearly didin't read. Sorry, but at that point you are saying things contradicting what happened in the comics in question. I that situation I'm done arguing with you - I have better things to do than talking with somebody who rejects reality and tries to force his own version on me.

After checking through the page in question a third time, I'll concede I made a minor slip up. Though I emphasize minor. Because, and this is the thing, the entire thing was stupid. You are stuck in the middle of hell. You shouldn't stop moving to have a conversation.



As well, It's probably for the best you stop talking very quickly. Your posts are moving further and further into personal attacks and you aren't exactly coming off as looking intelligent.

[Kalmarvho]

I also sinicerly doubt that they are or were trying to cash in on reception of female King Artur in fate/stay night

Especially since 'female King Arthur' is a lot older than Fate/Stay Night.

[Metahuman1]

Especially since 'female King Arthur' is a lot older than Fate/Stay Night.

Ok, I'll bite. Where the heck else other then the Fate Franchise has that been done?

[Kalmarvho]

Ok, I'll bite. Where the heck else other then the Fate Franchise has that been done?

Jane Yolen's Camelot anthology dates to 1995, for one.

[Metahuman1]

Jane Yolen's Camelot anthology dates to 1995, for one.

Huh, curious.

Any others come to mind?

[Kalmarvho]

Huh, curious.

Any others come to mind?

Not out of hand, no, not in fictional annals. But it's an idea that has some memetic inertia.

There's this, for example.

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Which is awful. It dates from a few years after Fate/Stay Night, but there you have it. Arthur reincarnated as a woman.

[Selrahc]

Lionheart from Marvel also covered a "Female King Arthur" figure, in that she was Captain Britain, who is basically King Arthur.

[Fan]

Considering rest of your post, I say you are not Mr. Reality.



And that makes you an authority on the subject and I should abide to your wise words? Tony Harrirs is nice for his wife and other women from his family. Didn't change a fact he's a sexist, women-hating prick.



I think you are confusing few things here. First of all, if you really followed Shinning Knight from cartoon to comics, then I think you should know that Shinning Knight was a crossdressing woman since Grant Morrisson's Seven Soldiers from 2005. If anything, I also sinicerly doubt that they are or were trying to cash in on reception of female King Artur in fate/stay night. First, because they're things aimed at two differend audiences and second, because I honestly doubt anybody at DC even heard or gives a damn about Japanesse Visual Novels market. Just because one thign reminds you of another doesn't mean that they're copying each other. Etrigan, Ghost Rider and Devilman are three demonic superheroes who were all created in the same year and all were well-recived by their respective audiences are you going to tell me that Jack Kirby tried to rip-off Go Nagai?



So in other words you say that character i badly written, because of being made a minority/alternate life style while they previously weren't? I say you are just nostalgic.



"Because completely different people on completely different books changed things in a way I don't like, therefore that means that all change is bad", that's what you're saying here.



From how it sounds it's criticism based only on the fact you liked the previous incarnation of the character and hate the idea there even was a change in the first place, not the execution.



I did not tried to imply you are prejuiced, I said you hate the idea, not that you hate transexuals or anything like that.



Ladies and gentlemen, I present you a man who complains about comics he clearly didin't read. Sorry, but at that point you are saying things contradicting what happened in the comics in question. I that situation I'm done arguing with you - I have better things to do than talking with somebody who rejects reality and tries to force his own version on me.

Now you're calling me a Woman hating Prick? Even if not directly stated, you're making a direct comparison to me and then to someone who you say is as much, making it a targeted insult with an attempt to circumvent the obvious rudeness of making a direct one.

I'd say you're the one who's forcing their version of reality on people bub, also two different audiences? Manga in general was spawned from American comics, and the two bases often merge with one reading the other, and so forth. They are a VERY similar demographic as well age, and interest wise.

What are you even talking about?

Also Captain Britain being King Arthur?

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This guy?

While it isn't a one of, as far as I'm aware Fate / Stay is the only recent one in the same demographic, with the exact same application, with the near exact same target fan base, in more recent years.

Also, I didn't like it when Grant Morrison did it either. If you want to make a trans character, make them trans from the start, introduce one that is solely that properitary, and make them on their own merits. Change can be great in characters, but it needs to have a reason, and none was ever given for changing who was formerly a blonde haired knight into..

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This, the entire point of the character is circumvented to present an issue the character has no place presenting, nor did he ever have a reason in his initial back story to be as much, they're changing a D-Lister because they can get away with it, like I said, and trying to appeal to a demographic they didn't have previously.

"Nostalgia" here, is a desire to keep a character as that character, and not have him changed so radically as to not even slightly resemble the character he used to be, the character literally having been destroyed and replaced with one that only barely resembles it.

I also explicitly said that I don't mind change, ffs, so long as it's done well and makes a good story. Also, Devilman is a vastly different character with a vastly different powerset. Shining Knight is a Knight of Camelot (Check), and USES THE EXACT SAME SWORD WITH THE EXACT SAME NAME FOR THE EXACT SAME PURPOSE.

Yeah, I'd say they're similar enough in intent and in delivery that it counts as cashing in on a popular concept. You also seem to imply that hating any change that happens ever is bad because we're stuck in our old ways, and nothing that comes before could have ever been better.

[Man on Fire]

Now you're calling me a Woman hating Prick? Even if not directly stated, you're making a direct comparison to me and then to someone who you say is as much, making it a targeted insult with an attempt to circumvent the obvious rudeness of making a direct one.

i'm pointing out that the fact you dated transexual people does not mean you are some voice of authority and understanding on the subject. I drew that comparision to show that being nice to people of the minority/whatever subject we're talking about

Manga in general was spawned from American comics, and the two bases often merge with one reading the other, and so forth. They are a VERY similar demographic as well age, and interest wise.

Except being aimed at citizens of completely different countries. manga by rule of thumb is aimed at Japanesse audience first and multinational audience second. American comic books are aimed at American audienc first and any profit from othr nationalitis is just an addition, to th point that even huge sales in Great Britain won't save the book from being cancelled because of low sales in USA.

Also Captain Britain being King Arthur?

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This guy?

What he has to do with anything?

While it isn't a one of, as far as I'm aware Fate / Stay is the only recent one in the same demographic, with the exact same application, with the near exact same target fan base, in more recent years.

Except it was aimed at Japanesse audience and I strongly doubt DC heard or even cares about it's existence. It's not even that popular as you make it to be.

Also, I didn't like it when Grant Morrison did it either. If you want to make a trans character, make them trans from the start, introduce one that is solely that properitary, and make them on their own merits. Change can be great in characters, but it needs to have a reason, and none was ever given for changing who was formerly a blonde haired knight into..

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"This character cannot be trans, because I like him, it was created and exist only to pander to me and nobody else and only my way is the only good way of writing the character" - that's what you're saying here.

Losing one square-jawed blonde-haired blue-eyed arian-ideal flat-personality white male, while there are hundreds of them in comics, for the sake of introducting somebody other groups of people can relate to and has actual personality, is an acceptable loss for me.

This, the entire point of the character is circumvented to present an issue the character has no place presenting, nor did he ever have a reason in his initial back story to be as much, they're changing a D-Lister because they can get away with it, like I said, and trying to appeal to a demographic they didn't have previously.

"Nostalgia" here, is a desire to keep a character as that character, and not have him changed so radically as to not even slightly resemble the character he used to be, the character literally having been destroyed and replaced with one that only barely resembles it.

I also explicitly said that I don't mind change, ffs, so long as it's done well and makes a good story.

Well, considering that change here wa done well and so far made not one but two good stories, I call bullmanure on your last sentence, especially as it comes after two paragraphs of complaining that the change happened at all.

Also, Devilman is a vastly different character with a vastly different powerset. Shining Knight is a Knight of Camelot (Check), and USES THE EXACT SAME SWORD WITH THE EXACT SAME NAME FOR THE EXACT SAME PURPOSE.

Do not use capslock on me, it's considereng equal to yelling at somebody.
Also, vastly different character with a vastly different powerset? You mean the guy who was bonded with powerful demon (check), can transform into him and use fire-based powers and encanced physical abilities to fight other demons?

Yeah, I'd say they're similar enough in intent and in delivery that it counts as cashing in on a popular concept.

And I say you are making assumptions based on completely nothing except that they look similiar to you. We don't even know if Grant Morrisson or anybody at DC even knows what Fate/Stay Night is.

You also seem to imply that hating any change that happens ever is bad because we're stuck in our old ways, and nothing that comes before could have ever been better.

Yes, hating any change that happens ever does mean being struck in our old ways, and things needs to evolve and move foward. Old ways were good when they were created, now we need new ones. Comics cannot be struck in mindset formed in the 60s.

[Tiki Snakes]

Well, it's not like it's a changed character. It's an entirely different person from an entirely different time period. Just using the same, I don't know, Legacy/Codename/General Identity that some other guy used at some point.

I thought that happened like, all the time in DC?

[Fan]

i'm pointing out that the fact you dated transexual people does not mean you are some voice of authority and understanding on the subject. I drew that comparision to show that being nice to people of the minority/whatever subject we're talking about



Except being aimed at citizens of completely different countries. manga by rule of thumb is aimed at Japanesse audience first and multinational audience second. American comic books are aimed at American audienc first and any profit from othr nationalitis is just an addition, to th point that even huge sales in Great Britain won't save the book from being cancelled because of low sales in USA.



What he has to do with anything?



Except it was aimed at Japanesse audience and I strongly doubt DC heard or even cares about it's existence. It's not even that popular as you make it to be.



"This character cannot be trans, because I like him, it was created and exist only to pander to me and nobody else and only my way is the only good way of writing the character" - that's what you're saying here.

Losing one square-jawed blonde-haired blue-eyed arian-ideal flat-personality white male, while there are hundreds of them in comics, for the sake of introducting somebody other groups of people can relate to and has actual personality, is an acceptable loss for me.



Well, considering that change here wa done well and so far made not one but two good stories, I call bullmanure on your last sentence, especially as it comes after two paragraphs of complaining that the change happened at all.



Do not use capslock on me, it's considereng equal to yelling at somebody.
Also, vastly different character with a vastly different powerset? You mean the guy who was bonded with powerful demon (check), can transform into him and use fire-based powers and encanced physical abilities to fight other demons?



And I say you are making assumptions based on completely nothing except that they look similiar to you. We don't even know if Grant Morrisson or anybody at DC even knows what Fate/Stay Night is.



Yes, hating any change that happens ever does mean being struck in our old ways, and things needs to evolve and move foward. Old ways were good when they were created, now we need new ones. Comics cannot be struck in mindset formed in the 60s.

I don't think you understand how niche comics are, Superman and Batman being outsold by ARCHIE DIGEST regularly. Nor do you understand how marketing is done. They market things to age demographics, and interests with occasional nods to nationality due to a modern global approach focused in the areas of highest purchase, but again, irrelevant.

So, I'm not ALLOWED to dislike a change made to a character? If I do say that I dislike it, it automatically means that I'm forcing my view on it on everyone else?

I do believe the only reason I even came in on this discussion is because you were attacking another forumite who I happened to know on an issue I happened to follow.

My example wasn't given to make me an authority, it was to prove I don't have prejudice, which I don't, against anything with the exception of Prejudice, and unabashed hatred.

I'm fine with changes being made so long as they construct a decent character.. which it hasn't, which while debatable is something I am allowed to say however "stuck in the past" I am. I am allowed to dislike new things, new things are not always better, the "Aryan ideal" character that Shining Knight was represented a struggle of a displaced man throughout time, and someone who had difficulty adjusting to modern ideas and culture. It was a solid character design. The new one creates a different character entirely, literally destroying everything it was before, to replace it with this publicity stunt. There is no reason to say that this is a dislike for new things, no, the old does not need to move over for the new, and sometimes what came before was better.

By your logic, Twilight is empirically written better than The Lord of the Rings, and "The Last Airbender" is an infinitely more deep, and psychologically compelling story than The Lord of the Flies. Just because they're "newer", and they present different characters than white men. There's nothing wrong with a character being any ethnicity, gender, or identity so long as it's presented well.. which it isn't in this case at all.

It makes no sense, and has no place applied to modern media.

[Scowling Dragon]

Well to be fair Lord of the flies is kind of simpler when it comes down to "deepness". Its a story thats kinda made to only be interpreted in one kind of way. Each character is just a rather blatant symbol for something dressed up in some clothes.

Better stories with subtext allow for different interpretations.

[Kalmarvho]

Yeah, but the textual density of Lord of the Flies as compared to, say, the Long Walk or Battle Royale - all stories, on the surface, about desensitization to violence and the loss of civilization - is in part increased because of its age. Discounting physical reality in favour of reading the text of itself, in itself - while admirable and correct from a formalist perspective - just won't do. Lord of the Flies has decades of history behind it, and to discount those when doing a reading is unwise.

[Scowling Dragon]

I don't understand what your quite saying.

[Kalmarvho]

Basically, this: Lord of the Flies is a simpler work than Avatar: the Last Airbender. But when you read it, you're also dealing with the readings and values imposed on it by the readers before you. Any well studied work has that kind of density, which doesn't render studying it moot - it, in fact, increases the possible complexity of readings.

Take comics. The Dark Knight Returns is less textually complex than Batman: Odyssey, but because of its impact on history and the countless readings done of it, it has a literary texture all of its own - one that it wouldn't have if it were published only today. This is because TDKR has informed today in a way Batman: Odyssey hasn't (despite the fact that TDKR isn't bat**** insane).

[Avilan the Grey]

"This character cannot be trans, because I like him, it was created and exist only to pander to me and nobody else and only my way is the only good way of writing the character" - that's what you're saying here.

No, what he is saying is that making radical changes to a character and expect the fanbase to be quiet is... rude. And dumb. It really has nothing to do with transexuality. It is just as bad to suddenly have them change ethnicity for nor reason for example. If you INSIST that character X must be changed in such a way. KILL THE CHARACTER OFF and replace him or her.

[Jayngfet]

No, what he is saying is that making radical changes to a character and expect the fanbase to be quiet is... rude. And dumb. It really has nothing to do with transexuality. It is just as bad to suddenly have them change ethnicity for nor reason for example. If you INSIST that character X must be changed in such a way. KILL THE CHARACTER OFF and replace him or her.

This. Changing something quite like that is rather jarring. Other radical changes have been a major turnoff for existing fans, and cumulatively makes it look like DC doesn't care about anything put down on paper beforehand so long as they can do whatever they want.

For an example that's as far removed from the trans issue as possible, look at New 52 Guy Gardner's backstory. Back during Year One, Gardner's backstory was so complex and three dimensional it basically needed about five issues to be told properly. He was a guy who grew up in an abusive, uncaring household that turned him into a punk, but then forced him to become something more, eventually sending him down a life where he tried to help people as a case worker and schoolteacher when he wasn't a hero.

Now, that story cuts off about a third of the way in and it wasn't nearly so dramatic or involved. Instead of being told in five issues the first time now it only took one, with the actual size of the issue being like 5-10 pages smaller than one of the old ones.

Gardner isn't a college educated, resourceful guy who's proven himself even without powers a hundred times over now. He's a dumb thug who only survived because he was too stupid to be afraid.

[Wolf_Haley]

So someone wanna explain how Shining KNight possibly being trans is a total betrayal of the character and somehow ruins everything involving the character that happened before and was nothing but a publicity stunt when in no way shape or form has it been played up for plubicity.

EDIT: I mean holy ****, other than possibly being Trans SS in DK and SS in 7S still have all the hallmarks of being a Shining Knight, the wrapping is just different and slight changes to personality and circumstance. It's not like the legend of the SS has suddenyl been destroyed, it's been enriched by having these widly different people take up the mantle and fight for what the Knight emobidies, Arthur and the defense of Avalon. If the KNight had gotten the Firestorm treatment or worse the treatment Shiva has gotten you would ahve a point.

[Fan]

So someone wanna explain how Shining KNight possibly being trans is a total betrayal of the character and somehow ruins everything involving the character that happened before and was nothing but a publicity stunt when in no way shape or form has it been played up for plubicity.

EDIT: I mean holy ****, other than possibly being Trans SS in DK and SS in 7S still have all the hallmarks of being a Shining Knight, the wrapping is just different and slight changes to personality and circumstance. It's not like the legend of the SS has suddenyl been destroyed, it's been enriched by having these widly different people take up the mantle and fight for what the Knight emobidies, Arthur and the defense of Avalon. If the KNight had gotten the Firestorm treatment or worse the treatment Shiva has gotten you would ahve a point.

The wrapping in this case is changed so drastically as to appear entirely different, with motivations, goals, and only.. everything else about the character aside from the "Shining Knight" as interpreted most literally rather than taking the moral implications or challenges associated with maintaining the morality that the character fails to maintain in New 52 that such a name would represents.

It's just like the Captain Marvel change. Suddenly, no one is pure of heart, despite people like Superman and Batman existing who are ACTUALLY THAT MORAL. The entire point of Superman is to be the guiding light of humanity, to be the ideal which we are supposed to strive for, and suddenly what he is, and who he is counts for nothing? No.

[Wolf_Haley]

Except Supes and Batman never have and never will be pure hearted, ye they do good and always will but they have moments where they get close to or let themselves lose control and have to deal with that. Billy being a bit of a douche buggedme at first but reading what they want to do with him, starting out jaded but over time growing to see how much light is in the world and how much good can happen seems to good to pass up. And motive wise what the hell is different about the current Shining Knight that he/she is nothing like the previous incarnations? I mean **** you keep souting all of this crap without explaining why and jsut keep saying "Not my SS!" when for all the important reasons she is the SS.

[Kalmarvho]

What's wrong with the new Captain Marvel (sorry "Shazam")? His backups were the best thing about an otherwise awful book.

[Tiki Snakes]

The wrapping in this case is changed so drastically as to appear entirely different, with motivations, goals, and only.. everything else about the character aside from the "Shining Knight" as interpreted most literally rather than taking the moral implications or challenges associated with maintaining the morality that the character fails to maintain in New 52 that such a name would represents.

It's just like the Captain Marvel change. Suddenly, no one is pure of heart, despite people like Superman and Batman existing who are ACTUALLY THAT MORAL. The entire point of Superman is to be the guiding light of humanity, to be the ideal which we are supposed to strive for, and suddenly what he is, and who he is counts for nothing? No.

Except as I understand it, this particular character is an entirely different person, whereas those are existing characters who have had their personality/etc changed.

Or am I missing something?

[Wolf_Haley]

What's wrong with the new Captain Marvel (sorry "Shazam")? His backups were the best thing about an otherwise awful book.

Simply not being exactly like the Billy of old, who I loved but I don't mind seeing a new take on a old character I loved.

And more on the Supes stuff, yeah Supes is the ideal of who we should be, it's not because he's this pure perfect being, it's because he's this flawed individual like all of us who just simply does the right thing because it is what should be done. Hell Garth Ennis of all people seemed to have gotten that more than anyone else and is regarded as one of the best Supes writers ever off of only two stories, Superman/Hitman and JLA/Hitman.

[Metahuman1]

No, what he is saying is that making radical changes to a character and expect the fanbase to be quiet is... rude. And dumb. It really has nothing to do with transexuality. It is just as bad to suddenly have them change ethnicity for nor reason for example. If you INSIST that character X must be changed in such a way. KILL THE CHARACTER OFF and replace him or her.

I would augment this with "Or, even better, write an epilog, retire the character, or at least semi retire them so that we can still see a bit of them here and there once in a blue moon, even if only for a page or two and there not getting any action scenes. "