League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold

[ex cathedra]

His passive doesn't replace building CDR, it encourages it. The faster your spells cool down = the faster your proc your passive = the faster your spells cooldown and so forth. They multiply each other.

[ChaosOS]

A 1s reduction in the CD of a spell with a 3 second CD vs. a 2s CD is a huge difference, 33% of the CD vs. 50% of the CD. CDR scales multiplicatively with his passive, which is why always getting 40% CDR on ryze is critical to maximizing his damage output. Plus, y'know, more snares is always good.

[Godskook]

When I play Ryze, I build him without CDR. Since his passive and Q and...

Am I a bad person? Every other Ryze I see has in their build.

Yes, you are. You asked....

More seriously, there's very little justification for not building Frozen Heart on Ryze, other than that he's in a mage v. mage lane. CDR is too vital on him to rely on Blue Buff for hitting the cap.

Edit:

Gawd, that game. 13/3/14 as Udyr. Started rolling early game, decided I was far enough ahead to buy a Bloodthirster*. Kept rolling, decided I'd buy Trinity too**. Finally decided to buy GA/Shurelya's for the final push, mostly just to tell the other team they couldn't kill me anymore(they didn't).

*I always get double Gp5s before making this decision, but my normal Elo is low enough that I can sometimes afford to buy damage when I play my main.

**I don't think I've ever done quite this well before.

[Math_Mage]

This might seem odd, but champs with strong laning phases are exactly who SHOULDN'T be getting GP5, at least in my opinion. I understand the thinking - GP5 are weak items, and champs with a strong laning phase even that out to have an okay laning phase and then the extra gold. But I've always felt champs with strong laning phases should take items that accentuate it, then really push that advantage home. I see some people buy GP5 items on Darius because his laning phase is strong enough to withstand it, but they give up their ability to really lane bully. Instead, buy items that make your laning phase even stronger (Doran's, Phage, rush the Deathcap, whatever) and just bully your opponent out of the lane, giving yourself some kills and free farm AND putting your lane opponent behind.

Solo laners that want g/10 items have three criteria:
-Doesn't bully lane
-Farms safely
-Doesn't need a critical item for mid-game

Darius is an example of a champ that needs other items to bully his lane. Galio is an example of a champ that needs other items (Chalice) to farm safely. Morgana is an example of a champ that has to rush a critical item (Zhonya's). An example of a champion that fits all three criteria is Lux in mid lane, or Cho'gath in top lane. Lux wants Kage's; Cho wants Philo and often HoG as well (though that won't last into S3).

[Laudandus]

His passive doesn't replace building CDR, it encourages it. The faster your spells cool down = the faster your proc your passive = the faster your spells cooldown and so forth. They multiply each other.

CDR also scales with more CDR, which is why reaching the CDR cap is a thing.

100% cd length -> 90% cd length is a significantly smaller difference than 70%->60% in terms of percentage of remaining cooldown you're getting rid of.

[Dada]

CDR also scales with more CDR, which is why reaching the CDR cap is a thing.

100% cd length -> 90% cd length is a significantly smaller difference than 70%->60% in terms of percentage of remaining cooldown you're getting rid of.

Huh, I have never actually thought about it this way before. Thanks!

[Renegade Paladin]

Well, my sister has talked me into taking up LoL, so I might as well check in here. For the first time ever, Renegade Paladin was already taken, so I went with New Clean Garen.

[9mm]

Well, my sister has talked me into taking up LoL, so I might as well check in here. For the first time ever, Renegade Paladin was already taken, so I went with New Clean Garen.

Welcome!

jump on mumble for craziness; but remember to ask for smurfs while you get your feet wet.

[Renegade Paladin]

Welcome!

jump on mumble for craziness; but remember to ask for smurfs while you get your feet wet.

I've played DotA since the original map, so I'm not completely unfamiliar with the format. But all that means is I know enough to know that I can't expect to pick up all the intricacies of all the character, ability, and item interactions for a good, long time, so yeah. I'll do that. I've been on the Mumble server already, but everyone was either muted or in team rooms, and I know better than to interrupt teams in game.

[Reynard]

I've been on the Mumble server already, but everyone was either muted or in team rooms, and I know better than to interrupt teams in game.

Ahahahaha.

People shift around the server all the time, usually joining rooms that friends are in or searching for others. The only time people will complain about you joining a room they're in is if you're then talk loudly over people, or spectate on their game and comment about what the gold values are.

[toasty]

I've played DotA since the original map, so I'm not completely unfamiliar with the format. But all that means is I know enough to know that I can't expect to pick up all the intricacies of all the character, ability, and item interactions for a good, long time, so yeah. I'll do that. I've been on the Mumble server already, but everyone was either muted or in team rooms, and I know better than to interrupt teams in game.

I havent been on mumble in forever, but generally its less of a "we're in a game" and more of "we're in a room, maybe playing a game." Very few people mind people hopping in and talking. Often times 2-3 groups will be in a room talking about different games.

If people don't want you in the room, they'll let you know.

[Mtg_player_zach]

I usually just mute people I don't want to talk to. Which doesn't really happen that often anyway.

[Xiander]

Hey there!

I'm still working my way up too (lvl 23), and.... honestly, I find people tend to exaggerate the differences. There's a lot of variation out there, different build orders giving strengths in different areas, and even some of the more unusual ones can be effective precisely because they're unexpected. That said, there's certainly builds that are vastly better than others.

As a general rule of thumb, look for special synergies. Champions that have an attack speed boost do better with attack damage items, and vice versa. Health (including health from shields) has a similar relationship with armor/MR. Champions who have low cooldowns and expect to be in Auto-Attack range like Sheen (and Trinity Force / Lich Bane) more than champions who just have one or the other.

In particular, look for unusual combinations. I use this searchable database regularly. For example, Cho'Gath adds AP to his auto-attack, so he likes AP and Attack Speed. He also gets big bonus health, and his passive gives healing, so Armor and MR are big for him. By looking up items with combinations of AP, AS, Armor, and MR, you'll probably end up with something viable.

For AP characters I usually start with Boots + 3 Potions (health or mana depends on the champ in question), get Kage's Lucky Pick as soon as I can for a bit of AP and that tasty gold income, and then Chalice of Harmony leading into Athene's Unholy Grail, followed by Rabadon's Deathcap. Some people get Rabadon's first, but I find the multiplicative nature of it makes it more valuable when you already have a couple AP items, and the mana regeneration bonus from Chalice/Grail is a lifesaver early game for many mages. After that, it's really up to the champion in question, how the game's going, etc. Rylai's Crystal Scepter is great for Annie because of her relative lack of Crowd Control / Escape tools, and because the bonus health synergizes with the bonus defences from her shield. Will of the Ancients might be better on Lulu because she's more Support-y and the aura will help the team. And either Void Staff or Abyssal Scepter are pretty much mandatory at some point for mages who like dealing damage.

But really, there's a lot of viable build orders out there, and what works at high ELO for lvl 30 summoners might not apply in the slightest for those of us down with the newbies. A lot of core assumptions simply don't apply. And, more importantly, a lot changes based on your own personal playstyle. I tend to forget to activate Actives on my items, and my computer is usually a little laggy in big fights anyway, so I avoid those unless it's clearly the perfect choice.

Good luck, and feel free to add me as a contact - same name as I use here. :)

Thank you, this was a very nice answer to get, and it even inspired some useful discussion. I appreciate that

If you don't mind I really would like to add you, I am on the EU north east server though, is that a problem?

[McDouggal]

I am support.

That is all.

[NineThePuma]

lol. Motivational XD

[MCerberus]

I am support.

That is all.

I think this is a better way to play support.

But then again my main supports are Zyra/Nunu/Leona so... that song is applicable.

[ZeroNumerous]

..., or spectate on their game and comment about what the gold values are.

Never do this, please. God that's so infuriating.

[Tychris1]

I think this is a better way to play support.

But then again my main supports are Zyra/Nunu/Leona so... that song is applicable.

This plays in my head every time i'm bot and I stealth away from a gank by the jungler.

Even say it out loud if it's mid lane coming aswell to gank my little rat self (Add in Hue's if it's an entire team gank).

[Lix Lorn]

Never do this, please. God that's so infuriating.

I don't get why that's annoying. If I'm in a 5 queue and another friend is like 'Oh hey, you're only 1k behind' 'Actually, you may be down fifteen kills and a turret, but you're 500 gold ahead' is pretty interesting. Sometimes useful.

[MCerberus]

This plays in my head every time i'm bot and I stealth away from a gank by the jungler.

Even say it out loud if it's mid lane coming aswell to gank my little rat self (Add in Hue's if it's an entire team gank).

Also most Anivia kills end up this way, since if you don't trololo them, you end with an assist. Flash into a Q... get walled off from their team... dive egg under tower.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I don't get why that's annoying. If I'm in a 5 queue and another friend is like 'Oh hey, you're only 1k behind' 'Actually, you may be down fifteen kills and a turret, but you're 500 gold ahead' is pretty interesting. Sometimes useful.

It's annoying because it can cause a team to either become complacent in their lead, or discouraged by how far behind they are. Proper spectator etiquette should, as a result, be to perhaps offer details and/or remain quiet about that stuff until asked, but it should NEVER be to give that information unasked.

[ex cathedra]

It's annoying because it can cause a team to either become complacent in their lead, or discouraged by how far behind they are. Proper spectator etiquette should, as a result, be to perhaps offer details and/or remain quiet about that stuff until asked, but it should NEVER be to give that information unasked.

This post bothers me quite a bit, but perhaps I'm reading into things that you didn't mean.

Firstly, it's the player's fault if they "grow complacent" or some nonsense like that. If you're winning you know that you're winning and if you're losing you should know that you're losing, so that strikes me as pointless whining but none of this is really my point.

Players should never be given information by spectators that they couldn't otherwise directly observe. That's straight-up cheating. Players should never ask for information from spectators unless that information is "is our jungler sucking" or something equally asinine.

In my opinion, the spectator's role is to A) make fun of the players in the game or B) shut the **** up.

[NineThePuma]

Why are there 15 different Hide and Seek variants?!?!

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Firstly, it's the player's fault if they "grow complacent" or some nonsense like that. If you're winning you know that you're winning and if you're losing you should know that you're losing, so that strikes me as pointless whining but none of this is really my point.

While true, it's still not a good idea to ever know exactly how much you're ahead or behind by. More to the case of being behind: most games CAN be recovered, and in my experience knowing the gold difference seems to make teams inclined to surrender even when victory is possible.

Players should never be given information by spectators that they couldn't otherwise directly observe. That's straight-up cheating. Players should never ask for information from spectators unless that information is "is our jungler sucking" or something equally asinine.

While I don't really like being given useful information like Dragon/Baron timers, Riot did push this feature with a 3 minute timer, so I'm not sure it's as bad as you say: they knew this was a possibility. That said, I tend to agree...to an extent. I don't want to know timers or even common ward locations, but I do like it when someone can analyze team fights and so forth. I consider that an intended functionality of spectator mode, whereas giving game-specific timin and location information isn't something that should be done.

In Conclusion: I agree with you, although I make an exception for fight-analysis and things that no longer have an effect on that the action, like "Where did Kassadin escape to after that fight?" My suggestions on spectator etiquette, however, comes from the fact that many people think (and it's reasonable to think this) that Riot wouldn't have released Spectator mode if they didn't expect people to try using it to share information. That's fine: we just prefer to utilize it differently. Outside of pure competitive tournament play, no one can really say what is right, given that the tool is available. I happen to agree with you, and others may not. So be it. :-)

[ex cathedra]

although I make an exception for fight-analysis

I think that's included in things that players could observe without spectator support.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I think that's included in things that players could observe without spectator support.

Indeed, although they would be unable to see the entire build-up and unable to grasp the entirety of the fight. That said, I edited in a bit on my last post: basically, you and I prefer to use Spectator Mode in why we consider a "fair" manner, while others see it as a tool Riot released and may choose to use it for all the information it can give. Since it's using only official, non-bugged Riot tools, it's not something I'd call cheating except in tournament play, so if others choose to use Spectator mode differently from me, that's their choice, and I'm ultimately fine with it.

In short, is is cheating? Not really. From your perspective, yes. From mine, they have more information than me, but I'm not going to call them on cheating, because, without breaking any rules, I COULD have the same information available. I just choose not to. It's only truly cheating when specifically disallowed (tournaments and the like).

[ex cathedra]

Last time I checked there aren't rules specifically against ghosting streams or using third-party applications to find out who you're queued against before you enter champion select, either.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Last time I checked there aren't rules specifically against ghosting streams or using third-party applications to find out who you're queued against before you enter champion select, either.

This is true. Although I'd be inclined to say that using an officially sanctioned resource included in the game is different from using one that's a third-party application.

I guess the real catch would be something I've never tried. I know you can type to people while spectating...does the client prevent you from communicating to the people in the game using /r? If it does, then yes, passing information from Spectator mode is not a supported feature, so using a third-party software for communication is technically cheating (although I don't think it's a big enough deal for me to worry about it, nor really think less of people for using it on occasion).

This is, however, a silly discussion, since none of us are on a level of competitiveness that this matters much, nor are (to my knowledge) any of us in the habit of having a friend spectate for the purpose of passing us information. I know a lot of us use it to have a laugh, offer some times, or analyze a fight, but information-passing tends to be both minor and very rare, in my Mumble/GitP group experience.

[NineThePuma]

Spectator Mode has a 3 minute delay. You could not give a 100% accurate play by play with it.

[Mtg_player_zach]

Spectator Mode has a 3 minute delay. You could not give a 100% accurate play by play with it.

You can give people buff timers.

Red/Blue: 5 min.
Dragon :6min.
Baron: 7min.