LGBTAitp 29: the Rainbow Outreach Program

[Serpentine]

Hey, I went looking at that stuff about Ace Ventura out of curiosity (and, hoooo man. I last saw that before I even knew transsexuality was a thing, and I liked it back then. I'd like to see it again now and see how my newer understanding changes my view of it). Someone said this in the comments: "I’ve also never seen silence of the lambs or the crying game or any of the other hateful movies that have been made."
It's been a fair while since I saw it, but what's so bad about The Crying Game? It seemed pretty sensitive to me, and

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the guy's reaction to the "reveal", although no doubt triggering and unpleasant, isn't particularly unrealistic I thought, and he dealt with it in a fairly mature way eventually

but I have thought about asking this thread's opinions on it for a while, so maybe I just missed something - again, I saw it before I was really conscious of transsexuality.
As an aside, though, I saw it in a class on men and masculinity in film, and our analyses of Tootsie and Mrs Doubtfire really laid the foundations for the development of my views on heteronormativity and enforced gender.

[Astrella]

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The guy vomits. The fact that he's confronted makes him vomit. And yes I know it's handled more nuanced when the movie goes on, but vomiting is such a strong signifier of disgust. Also take in account that this was one of the first movies that actually put a trans* person into the open. It wasn't as bad as others, but I still wouldn't call it a great portrayal.

I mean, it's sorta problematic when that's the best portrayal around... :/

I'm really glad trans visibility is improving. Imagine being trans* a decade ago and stuff like that being your only examples...

[Absol197]

Also, our dear Phoenix is wanting to show off the clothes she got, but I think she needs a bit more encouragement from the thread.

Curses, they found out !

Phoe! Clothes! If you don't mind, would you post pictures so we can gush over you? You don't have to, but we'd love to see! Well, I would, anyway!

Uh-huh! The Kobold-sector of the Kender-hive agrees!

I'd say go for it.

You got new clothes, Phee?

Oooh, can we see?

Please?

Weeellllll...maybe. I need to see if I can track down a camera I can use, and I also need to learn how to upload pictures to the internet. I could take all the pictures you could want, but without that, there's no way I could share them >_< .


~Phoenix~

[Astrella]

Weeellllll...maybe. I need to see if I can track down a camera I can use, and I also need to learn how to upload pictures to the internet. I could take all the pictures you could want, but without that, there's no way I could share them >_< .


~Phoenix~

Don't worry, if I managed to get pictures off that old clampphone of mine you can do it too.

[Mono Vertigo]

Belated congratulations, Astrella!

[the_druid_droid]

"One day, I awoke to a new world of darkness, opened my eyes to the truth behind our languages. I became a Noun."

I could see that work. :3

*dons Morpheus shades*

What if I told you the world you thought you knew was made up of participles, future pluperfects, and other syntactic lies?

Weeellllll...maybe. I need to see if I can track down a camera I can use, and I also need to learn how to upload pictures to the internet. I could take all the pictures you could want, but without that, there's no way I could share them >_< .

I find Photobucket to be fairly easy to use. Once you sign up, you just have to click the green "Upload" button at the top of the screen and select the image file you want out from your computer's file browser.

[Astrella]

*dons Morpheus shades*

What if I told you the world you thought you knew was made up of participles, future pluperfects, and other syntactic lies?

Talking about the matrix...

[Lentrax]

*dons Morpheus shades*

What if I told you the world you thought you knew was made up of participles, future pluperfects, and other syntactic lies?

Just remember that the term 'future perfect' was eliminated once everyone found out it wasn't.

[KenderWizard]

Problematic portrayal of trans people in media:

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The guy vomits. The fact that he's confronted makes him vomit. And yes I know it's handled more nuanced when the movie goes on, but vomiting is such a strong signifier of disgust. Also take in account that this was one of the first movies that actually put a trans* person into the open. It wasn't as bad as others, but I still wouldn't call it a great portrayal.

I mean, it's sorta problematic when that's the best portrayal around... :/

I'm really glad trans visibility is improving. Imagine being trans* a decade ago and stuff like that being your only examples...

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The hell is with the vomiting?! I cannot think of anything someone could tell me about themselves that would result in me vomiting, and I have actually vomited from an uncontrollable emotional experience.

You know, I didn't used to know much about trans issues. I wouldn't have given all the right answers if I was asked, and there was a lot of stuff I didn't understand or even consider. But bloody hell, I think I still could have managed to not **** up that badly if teenage-Kender was put in charge of making a movie or tv show. I genuinely don't understand how someone could not only hate a group of people that much, but think that that's normal and okay and even funny.

Weeellllll...maybe. I need to see if I can track down a camera I can use, and I also need to learn how to upload pictures to the internet. I could take all the pictures you could want, but without that, there's no way I could share them >_< .


~Phoenix~

I second photobucket, it's very straightforward. I hope you can work something out! And even if you can't, I'll just assume you look awesome, cause I bet you do.

Just remember that the term 'future perfect' was eliminated once everyone found out it wasn't.

I laughed!

[noparlpf]

Whenever somebody vomits in a movie it usually basically ruins the movie for me. When somebody vomits in a movie and it's supposed to be funny, that's like an automatic -6 stars.

[supernerd]

"One day, I awoke to a new world of darkness, opened my eyes to the truth behind our languages. I became a Noun."

I could see that work. :3

And congratulations indeed, so much that I shall say it twice! ^_^

After opening fight/cut scene: "So now I depend on those still Verbs to shape my destiny, and some inner force tells me it is great."

You are a wonderful person, and have created a monster. This would be a very fun game to make/play or rather, a very fun universe to just create. Fighting, Sneaking, and Healing for the Gerunds, and they are accomanied by the Abstracts Rage and Love, who are in an oddly stable romantic relationship.

And on Congrats, good luck with those pictures.

[Kindablue]

Problematic portrayal of trans people in media:

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The hell is with the vomiting?! I cannot think of anything someone could tell me about themselves that would result in me vomiting, and I have actually vomited from an uncontrollable emotional experience.

You know, I didn't used to know much about trans issues. I wouldn't have given all the right answers if I was asked, and there was a lot of stuff I didn't understand or even consider. But bloody hell, I think I still could have managed to not **** up that badly if teenage-Kender was put in charge of making a movie or tv show. I genuinely don't understand how someone could not only hate a group of people that much, but think that that's normal and okay and even funny.

I can't believe we're putting spoilers around The Crying Game, but okay:

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It isn't a comedy if that's what you mean here, it's a thriller about the IRA. And it's not just him finding out that she's trans that makes him vomit, they're in the process of having sex when he discovers her penis. The reaction is maybe homophobic, but I don't think the movie itself is hateful. I can understand being frustrated with how that scene is taken by most people—that the reaction is warranted—but I think that's most people's fault and not the movie's.

I was seven when I saw Ace Ventura and even then I thought it was juvenile and unfunny.

I've heard that there's a pretty transphobic scene in The Hangover II, but I haven't seen either of them.

And on that same general subject, I just saw Mulholland Dr. a few days ago, and if I had known there was that much lesbian homoeroticism in it I would've seen it years ago. I didn't find it as perplexing as I expected, but that scene really comes out of nowhere. Not that I'm complaining, of course.

[Lentrax]

I laughed!

You can thank Douglas Adams and his amazing five book Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy, for that laugh.

*Hugs for the best zarking froods a being could ever know, no matter your time frame.*

[KerfuffleMach2]

Hey, I went looking at that stuff about Ace Ventura out of curiosity (and, hoooo man. I last saw that before I even knew transsexuality was a thing, and I liked it back then. I'd like to see it again now and see how my newer understanding changes my view of it). Someone said this in the comments: "I’ve also never seen silence of the lambs or the crying game or any of the other hateful movies that have been made."
It's been a fair while since I saw it, but what's so bad about The Crying Game? It seemed pretty sensitive to me, and

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the guy's reaction to the "reveal", although no doubt triggering and unpleasant, isn't particularly unrealistic I thought, and he dealt with it in a fairly mature way eventually

but I have thought about asking this thread's opinions on it for a while, so maybe I just missed something - again, I saw it before I was really conscious of transsexuality.
As an aside, though, I saw it in a class on men and masculinity in film, and our analyses of Tootsie and Mrs Doubtfire really laid the foundations for the development of my views on heteronormativity and enforced gender.

Silence of the Lambs is hateful? I don't get that one. I could be missing something, but I really don't see it.

I haven't seen The Crying Game, so I have no idea about that. But, I will say that just because a character reacts bad doesn't mean that the whole movie is hateful.

Tootsie and Mrs. Doubtfire are both good movies. I love them.

[Delusion]

Came out as trans* to a girl.

"This does explain why you are so pretty."

[Astrella]

Silence of the Lambs is hateful? I don't get that one. I could be missing something, but I really don't see it.

I haven't seen The Crying Game, so I have no idea about that. But, I will say that just because a character reacts bad doesn't mean that the whole movie is hateful.

Tootsie and Mrs. Doubtfire are both good movies. I love them.

Well, you can't really go displaying a bunch of negative stereotypes about trans women and then go "it's okay, cause he's not really trans". Not to mention that their excuse is basically a whole bunch of gatekeeping nonsense.

I'm also iffy about crossdressing as humour. On one end there's freedom of (gender) expression, but the sad truth is that a lot of the humour often comes down to "man in a dress", which has strong transmysoginistic roots. There's a reason you almost never see the reverse played up for laughs.

Came out as trans* to a girl.

"This does explain why you are so pretty."

Oh, that's good I guess? A bit of an odd response though.

[Kindablue]

Silence of the Lambs is hateful? I don't get that one. I could be missing something, but I really don't see it.

Buffalo Bill wanted a sex change but was refused for psychological reasons, and Hannibal says at one point that he's not a "real transsexual," which a lot of people take as dismissive.

Came out as trans* to a girl.

"This does explain why you are so pretty."

Awww

[Astrella]

Buffalo Bill wanted a sex change but was refused for psychological reasons, and Hannibal says at one point that he's not a "real transsexual," which a lot of people take as dismissive.:

Basically; this article has the relevant quotes. It's not just calling him not a 'real transsexual', it's a whole bunch of nonsense about drawing houses and all that. Not to mention there isn't really a thing like a 'real transsexual'.

[Lix Lorn]

*Considers maybe being less secretive*

Also, *second Lixiepounce~* X3

Oooh, I do hope so and-eek! (blush)

Also, our dear Phoenix is wanting to show off the clothes she got, but I think she needs a bit more encouragement from the thread.

Personally, I'd like to see her WITHOUT (shot several times)

Personally, I'm a big fan of Noun: the Gerunding. Also Congratulations to Astrella! That's wonderful news!

Reminds me of the game system I started writing.
Protagonist: The Lampshading.

Came out as trans* to a girl.

"This does explain why you are so pretty."

Best reply. Sounds like you should flirt to me :3

[the_druid_droid]

And on that same general subject, I just saw Mulholland Dr. a few days ago, and if I had known there was that much lesbian homoeroticism in it I would've seen it years ago. I didn't find it as perplexing as I expected, but that scene really comes out of nowhere. Not that I'm complaining, of course.

Oh man, my only experience with Mulholland Dr. is both hilarious and (I'm fairly certain) not board appropriate.

[Lentrax]

Came out as trans* to a girl.

"This does explain why you are so pretty."

You weren't before?

Oooh, I do hope so and-eek! (blush)


Personally, I'd like to see her WITHOUT (shot several times)


Reminds me of the game system I started writing.
Protagonist: The Lampshading.


Best reply. Sounds like you should flirt to me :3

Second every statement above. Although I have to ask about the Lampshading thing. Is that just for the heroes who get drunk, or cana anyone pt on a cool lampshade hat?

Also: *Attack hug Lixie!*With a few tickles in there for good measure.

[Zorg]

It has obviously been a long time since I've watched Silence, as I don't remember any of those bits. Silence of the Hams is much better, IMO.
She's the Man is a girl crossdressing movie, and is pretty much a totally insane reworking of Shakespeare.

Congrats to you Delusion I hope you are as happy as your avatar makes you seem

Phoenix - I can second photobuck for being very easy to use. It is also good as you can set it to private so people can't access your folder(s) if you want to compartmentalise your photo sharing as I do.
Also good to hear about clothes - clothes are good


-

And a big thanks for all the support, you wonderful people

some specific replies:

Keveak - they're releasing or just released a trillogy set for Mass Effect, so now is a good time to get started!

Astrella - thanks for the links. I will keep them for later use

Kender - my daughter is 10, so old enough to have a somewhat sensible conversation with. Unfortunately her mother and step-dad have just seperated after something like 8 years togther, so I'm not sure adding to her emotional turmoil will be good. But, she's pretty relaxed about most things and calls me by my first name anyways.
I'm somewhat concerned about her mother more, as she is quite religious so I don't know how she'll be (we don't exactly talk too much would you believe).
It's probably the uncertainty more than anything :/

Everyone else (and thanks again) - I'm 90% certain I'll tell my Dad when he comes up, I'd probably feel too guilty not doing it and it would be a weight off my mind at the very least.
As several of you have said if he chooses to cut ties that's his descision and there's not much I can do about it. I'd rather he didn't and I could end up being pleasantly surprised... but I doubt it. He probably will come around, but it will take time.

[Kindablue]

Oh man, my only experience with Mulholland Dr. is both hilarious and (I'm fairly certain) not board appropriate.

Were you that guy hiding behind the diner? Druids are kind of like magical homeless people, right?

Basically; this article has the relevant quotes. It's not just calling him not a 'real transsexual', it's a whole bunch of nonsense about drawing houses and all that. Not to mention there isn't really a thing like a 'real transsexual'.

I agree, though I guess I don't remember that scene as well as I thought. I remember the book having a lot of pop psychology in it, but that's pretty common in that sort of thing.

[KenderWizard]

I can't believe we're putting spoilers around The Crying Game, but okay:

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It isn't a comedy if that's what you mean here, it's a thriller about the IRA. And it's not just him finding out that she's trans that makes him vomit, they're in the process of having sex when he discovers her penis. The reaction is maybe homophobic, but I don't think the movie itself is hateful. I can understand being frustrated with how that scene is taken by most people—that the reaction is warranted—but I think that's most people's fault and not the movie's.

I generally think it's better to spoiler than not spoiler if you're not sure. And Astrella spoilered so I spoilered my reply. *shrugs* So...

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I don't mean it's a comedy or supposed to be a comedic moment in The Crying Game, I was generalising to other movies.

I see what you mean, and I haven't seen the movie myself so I'm no expert. I just think it doesn't take that much thought to see that maybe it would be unnecessarily hurtful to trans people and not actually very important to the plot. From a plot point of view, what's the difference between the guy getting shocked and maybe upset and stopping the sexual encounter, and getting shocked and maybe upset and vomiting and stopping the sexual encounter?

You can thank Douglas Adams and his amazing five book Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy, for that laugh.

*Hugs for the best zarking froods a being could ever know, no matter your time frame.*

I <3 Adams! I don't remember that line. I should read the five books in The Increasingly Inaccurately Named Trilogy of Four again!

I'm also iffy about crossdressing as humour. On one end there's freedom of (gender) expression, but the sad truth is that a lot of the humour often comes down to "man in a dress", which has strong transmysoginistic roots. There's a reason you almost never see the reverse played up for laughs.

Yeah, I don't like it. I'm fine with people who want to play with genderbending doing that, if that's what they're into, but when the be-all and end-all is "Look! A man in women's clothing! It's funny because women's clothing is just for women, and when a man wears it, it's wrong!" it's all kind of icky; transphobic and misogynistic, usually.

Kender - my daughter is 10, so old enough to have a somewhat sensible conversation with. Unfortunately her mother and step-dad have just seperated after something like 8 years togther, so I'm not sure adding to her emotional turmoil will be good. But, she's pretty relaxed about most things and calls me by my first name anyways.
I'm somewhat concerned about her mother more, as she is quite religious so I don't know how she'll be (we don't exactly talk too much would you believe).
It's probably the uncertainty more than anything :/

Everyone else (and thanks again) - I'm 90% certain I'll tell my Dad when he comes up, I'd probably feel too guilty not doing it and it would be a weight off my mind at the very least.
As several of you have said if he chooses to cut ties that's his descision and there's not much I can do about it. I'd rather he didn't and I could end up being pleasantly surprised... but I doubt it. He probably will come around, but it will take time.

Well, good luck with all of it! Kids can deal with almost anything provided they have people to rely on, so I'm sure your daughter will be fine, once you make it clear you're not leaving her or loving her any less.

[Astrella]

Belated congratulations, Astrella!

Thank you!

-----

Re: trans* portrayals

The main problem is that that is what 90 % of trans* portrayals is like, the balance is just completely off. We're either pathetic people to take pity on, deceivers, jokes or psychopaths. We're something used for sensationalism; a thing to spice up a villain, etc... there just are so very little really positive trans* portrayals out there...

Edit; hope I'm not coming over too angry / whatever... :c

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I hope things go well anyway, Zorg! Also kids are often a lot more understanding that older folks, so I hope it goes well with your daughter too!

[SiuiS]

Lena; it is a Mage thing, yes. Acanthus are enchanters, sorcerers of time and fate, destiny and million-to-one chances. They move through life on one lucky stroke after another, free from planning to enjoy life as it comes. Thyrsus are life/spirit, shamans on the path of ecstasy. Hardship, sensation and physicality are their purview.

An awakening is that point were you go through something and realize the truth behind existence: it's like seeing something thatakea you realize you're in the matrix.

Hm hm, our Werewolf: The Forsaken game with the LGBT+ crowd is turning out pretty good so far. Also thank you!

Yes!

Oh, Zorg, something I thought of earlier. The list of transphobic myths (that's the first one, there's more articles about others) on Questioning Transphobia or Natalie Reed's 13 Myths and Misconceptions about Trans Women might be useful links to give to people you're coming out to. (Depends of course on how you want to do it yourself.)

Ooh useful.

"One day, I awoke to a new world of darkness, opened my eyes to the truth behind our languages. I became a Noun."

I could see that work. :3

I dunno, that still sounds like a Mage to me. Space/fate/prime, I'd say.

And on that note, trying to walk less than three days after spraining my ankle: Not the best idea. Ow. >_<

T~T

Hey, I went looking at that stuff about Ace Ventura out of curiosity (and, hoooo man. I last saw that before I even knew transsexuality was a thing, and I liked it back then. I'd like to see it again now and see how my newer understanding changes my view of it).

Right, I keep dropping that quote.
Personally? I understand how misfortunate Ace Ventura seems, but someone getting extreme cosmetic surgery to get close to a target is sort of a genre trope. We have the blak guy who gets facially reconstructed into a white guy, and that doesn't say anything bad about black people. Why does the guy who gets reconstructed into a girl have to say something bad about trans people? I was pretty young but I got the difference right off the bat. Even during the heyday of Jerry Springer et al I knew of some ephemeral difference between the transvestites and the ones who considered themselves women. There was some je ne sais quoi there that made it, and still makes it, a separate idea in my head.

*dons Morpheus shades*

What if I told you the world you thought you knew was made up of participles, future pluperfects, and other syntactic lies?

"What? What are you talking about? What's a pluperfect? Why can't I be a normal Mastigos and do easy things like traffic with demons as face eternal temptation?"

I find Photobucket to be fairly easy to use. Once you sign up, you just have to click the green "Upload" button at the top of the screen and select the image file you want out from your computer's file browser.

And there is a phone app! I use it rather often. Turns out even really bad pictures on my phone have better resolution than my scanner.

You're gonna have to go to it on an actual computer to change file names though, unless you like links that are a bajillionty letters long. I don't know why my phone accepts bajillionty as a word, but I am pleased as punch.



And then I realize we are talking about different movies and I just delete this here quote.

Came out as trans* to a girl.

"This does explain why you are so pretty."

Nice!

Basically; this article has the relevant quotes. It's not just calling him not a 'real transsexual', it's a whole bunch of nonsense about drawing houses and all that. Not to mention there isn't really a thing like a 'real transsexual'.

This was actually covered a while back, like ten pages ago.
The test is unfortunate, really, but... Actually, no, that statelet doesn't support itself. I'll just leave it at the test beig unfortunate.

Oh man, my only experience with Mulholland Dr. is both hilarious and (I'm fairly certain) not board appropriate.

This sounds like I need to see this movie.

Phoenix - I can second photobuck for being very easy to use. It is also good as you can set it to private so people can't access your folder(s) if you want to compartmentalise your photo sharing as I do.

Oh man, really? That could have stopped so many awkward moments. How do I do that?

I'm somewhat concerned about her mother more, as she is quite religious so I don't know how she'll be (we don't exactly talk too much would you believe).
It's probably the uncertainty more than anything :/

Random flare of aggravation. That's not really an excuse on their part! It's not religious, it is straight bigotry! They have to search for justification to back them up, I doubt anyone upon first discovering transsexuality is a thing can just cite some anti-trans liturgy, no matter which religion.


Rargh I want to rage forum y u no outlet?
Yeah because rules, I know.

Everyone else (and thanks again) - I'm 90% certain I'll tell my Dad when he comes up, I'd probably feel too guilty not doing it and it would be a weight off my mind at the very least.
As several of you have said if he chooses to cut ties that's his descision and there's not much I can do about it. I'd rather he didn't and I could end up being pleasantly surprised... but I doubt it. He probably will come around, but it will take time.

Best of luck!

Were you that guy hiding behind the diner? Druids are kind of like magical homeless people, right?

Fits me to a T almost...

I agree, though I guess I don't remember that scene as well as I thought. I remember the book having a lot of pop psychology in it, but that's pretty common in that sort of thing.

I remember it quite clearly actually. That, the guy being talked into choking on his own tongue (and why), and the phrase "she was a woman and a half in every direction, and she knew it" which stuck with me since I was really young, and always made me wider why tall women feel so self conscious. I mean, of you're a magnificent piece of work, wouldn't being bigger (in the sense of being the same proportions and just kind of zoomed) make you better?

[the_druid_droid]

Were you that guy hiding behind the diner? Druids are kind of like magical homeless people, right?

Well, the circumstances surrounding my watching of it make it somewhat difficult to remember what actually happened in the movie, so maybe? I don't really recall that guy, although I do remember the diner...

And really, all D&D casters are magical hobos.

"What? What are you talking about? What's a pluperfect? Why can't I be a normal Mastigos and do easy things like traffic with demons as face eternal temptation?"

"Because Easy is part of the Lie"

[/AdamantineArrow]

I mean, of you're a magnificent piece of work, wouldn't being bigger (in the sense of being the same proportions and just kind of zoomed) make you better?

This is actually a pretty awesome thought

[SiuiS]

Bollocks. I can't horn brain today. If you're 50% superior along each of three axes, how much superior does that make the whole deal? Is it multiplicative? Is I just 50%? Is there a square/cube thing going on?

Careful, Keveak. Mass effect sounds fun, but then you look at your watch and you have to work in six hours an should go to sleep for a bit, but you just got tech armor and this next mission should take 15 minutes, at the most.
Actually it still sounds fun. It's not often I quit because I can't remember I I'm playing Xbox or PS3...

[Kindablue]

I generally think it's better to spoiler than not spoiler if you're not sure. And Astrella spoilered so I spoilered my reply. *shrugs* So...

Spoiler

Show

I don't mean it's a comedy or supposed to be a comedic moment in The Crying Game, I was generalising to other movies.

I see what you mean, and I haven't seen the movie myself so I'm no expert. I just think it doesn't take that much thought to see that maybe it would be unnecessarily hurtful to trans people and not actually very important to the plot. From a plot point of view, what's the difference between the guy getting shocked and maybe upset and stopping the sexual encounter, and getting shocked and maybe upset and vomiting and stopping the sexual encounter?

Abstracting this thought, do artists have a responsibility to be unoffensive?

Yeah, I don't like it. I'm fine with people who want to play with genderbending doing that, if that's what they're into, but when the be-all and end-all is "Look! A man in women's clothing! It's funny because women's clothing is just for women, and when a man wears it, it's wrong!" it's all kind of icky; transphobic and misogynistic, usually.

"All the greats have done it!"

This sounds like I need to see this movie.

It's pretty amazing. I've been devouring Lynch's work in the past month or so, and it's my second favorite so far, after The Elephant Man.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Buffalo Bill wanted a sex change but was refused for psychological reasons, and Hannibal says at one point that he's not a "real transsexual," which a lot of people take as dismissive.

Basically; this article has the relevant quotes. It's not just calling him not a 'real transsexual', it's a whole bunch of nonsense about drawing houses and all that. Not to mention there isn't really a thing like a 'real transsexual'.

I see it more as Hannibal having the prejudices and hatred, not the movie. I guess I can see others coming to that conclusion, but I just don't think that way.

As for the crossdressing, what I find funny isn't the act itself, but the situations that can arise because of it. And the reason you don't see too many females cross dressing in movies is simply because society is more acceptable of women in men's clothes than men in women's clothes.