MS Paint Adventures 7: At the Price of Oblivion

[B. Dandelion]

It did just seem likely to me that her attitude could very easily contribute to alt-ghosts getting obliterated in preventable fashion even taking into account the fact that English was gonna obliterate a lot of them anyway.

In the interest of fairness that hasn't been made an affirmative position and even Sollux just calls her out for not caring about the collateral damage rather than making more of it than there would have been to begin with.

[Shadow of the Sun]

What I've learned from this update:

Vriska is still astonishingly dumb, a sucker, and arrogant as hell. "Yeah, Lord English is dumb, all he does is follow us slowly while we get closer and closer to the ultimate weapon!"

Not for one second does she pause to consider that this is exactly what he wants.

...to be honest, I blame Aranea. She should have spotted that.

[Cavelcade]

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And is Vriska starting to remind me of Kankri a bit there? Huh, I don't recall them interacting...

I thought she was making fun of Kankri and Sollux just didn't pick up on it. Or possibly just repeating what he said because she knew it'd get the desired response, she is a master manipulator after all.

Edit: Sorry, a "master manipulator". In the most message-board illegally massive quotation marks you can find.

[Calemyr]

The way I read Sollux's rant sounded like he was just pissed at how callously she was sacrificing doomed ghosts. Not that she was doing it, just that she didn't bat an eye at the death tolls.

Or, to put in Homestuck parlance:

Spoiler

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TA: y0u just d0n't get it, d0 y0u? th0se gh0st eridans are living, breathing pe0ple... 0r i guess 'were', just like y0u and psych0-psued0-feferi 0ver there. hell, maybe 0ne 0r tw0 0f them managed t0 gr0w up a little and st0p acting like such a grub-****ing d0uche. did you ever think ab0ut that? these are pe0ple we're talking ab0ut, n0t s0me s0ulless expendable mini0ns in y0ur stupid flarp campaigns.
AA: sollux
TA: s0rry, s0rry.

(Sollux B's quirk is a lot easier to write with, I notice. I can see why, though. thii2 would be tediiou2 to maiintaiin for two long.)

[Jayngfet]

What I've learned from this update:

Vriska is still astonishingly dumb, a sucker, and arrogant as hell. "Yeah, Lord English is dumb, all he does is follow us slowly while we get closer and closer to the ultimate weapon!"

Not for one second does she pause to consider that this is exactly what he wants.

...to be honest, I blame Aranea. She should have spotted that.

I don't blame Vriska. She's always been a self centered, unintelligent, arrogant piece of work.

I blame everybody who isn't her except maybe Meenah, who is just as stupid. Seriously even without his Speech and what Vriska's apparently been doing it'd stretch my disbelief to assume Sollux is apparently going along with this. Aradia and Tavros are just kind of loopy now but their perspectives have done a complete 180 due to what must be events that happened offscreen(again).

This entire situation relies on the idea that somehow, previous characterization and actual action are being ignored for a quest I don't think half of them actually care all that much about regarding a piece of the setting that probably shouldn't exist in the first place.

Honestly I just want English to vaporize the dreambubbles, they're an overcomplication that doesn't really add anything.

[Cavelcade]

I think that is probably mostly fair, but I do think they add something. I think the same elements could have been added a different way to better effect, though.

I don't think Tavros' 180 is all that OOC, but Aradia and Sollux being there is just...weird? I guess this is to reintroduce them? So they can all be there for the big end?

Also while Meenah is terrible, I find her hilarious to read, so I'm okay with it from that point of view. Hm.


I guess I'm willing to wait and see what happens, but for now the dream bubbles do seem a bit meh.

[Derjuin]

It's weird. I used to look forward to MSPA updates, and was very excited whenever the RSS opened a slew of new pages. Now...

It feels like nothing's changing, and yet it's trying to go in a direction I really don't care for. My reaction to each update has changed from "Oh boy, what will happen next?! In what whacky way will the kids/trolls solve their problems and advance on their quest?!" to "...Will something happen now that I can give a **** about?". It doesn't help that it seems like Vriska's character growth was fake or ignored by Hussie, because oh hey it's like she's regressed, possibly even gotten worse (either way it's not something I care to read about anymore - I was hoping to see her become better). Instead of making sense, I'm left wondering why and how the current situation has even occurred, and not in the usual "homestuck" how and why that makes me want to find out.

Oh well. I'll be silently sitting by the side from now on, hoping some update will catch me and reel me back in.

[super dark33]

Well, I think it's just that Vriska isn't the character she was anymore.
She used to be mildly interesting early on but now she is just not relevant, as much as she is unwilling to admit so.
I speculate that the map thing is fake and she only does it just to be "the leader" for as much as she can.
Also Tavros should've grown a spine by now.

[Jayngfet]

It's weird. I used to look forward to MSPA updates, and was very excited whenever the RSS opened a slew of new pages. Now...

It feels like nothing's changing, and yet it's trying to go in a direction I really don't care for. My reaction to each update has changed from "Oh boy, what will happen next?! In what whacky way will the kids/trolls solve their problems and advance on their quest?!" to "...Will something happen now that I can give a **** about?". It doesn't help that it seems like Vriska's character growth was fake or ignored by Hussie, because oh hey it's like she's regressed, possibly even gotten worse (either way it's not something I care to read about anymore - I was hoping to see her become better). Instead of making sense, I'm left wondering why and how the current situation has even occurred, and not in the usual "homestuck" how and why that makes me want to find out.

Oh well. I'll be silently sitting by the side from now on, hoping some update will catch me and reel me back in.

Yeah, honestly I'm cutting down on the list of comics I read and homestuck is uncomfortably close to making the black list. Not because it's bad but because like pretty much everything else on that list, I don't get the feeling that things will progress in a timely fashion or towards any kind of satisfying end.

I'll repeat it again, the Dream Bubbles were an awful idea from day one. They removed the finality of death and kind of got rid of some of the biting sting that came from the deaths of people like Tavros and Nepeta by saying "oh wait now they have happy endings after all", then they went ahead and made characters disposable long before this, since Lord English can kill an infinite number of dudes and it'd never make a real difference.

Also Tavros should've grown a spine by now.

The trolls thing has always been failure is the real issue most people don't get. Karkat is an awful leader, Vriska's powergaming makes her lose out on a bunch of features, Terezi has never caught an actual criminal but has executed lots of kids for her own amusement, Equius's strength has probably been more a source of pain than a boon overall character wise, and Tavros therefore can't really be a hero no matter how much he wants to be.

I'd be fine with that, if he didn't go into this weird other direction because MAGIC SPRITE STUFF. Vriska isn't that different but he's suddenly turned into a skeevy little monster.

Or if failure wasn't the thing taken on by yet another bunch of characters to be introduced after. I mean by this point the original kids seem competent if only because they're capable of even putting out the effort and getting some kind of result rather than skill.

[Jayngfet]

Whelp, this is it. I'm done after this update.

I mean it's not even that Vriska or Meenah would do this. It's not even that Areana wound up being roped into it. Hell, it's not even Tavros's weird characterization 360.

It's that John is just kind of ok with it. I mean he recognized how bad this was morally, then he caved the moment someone brought out a generic stock excuse to do whatever they want. I mean the fact that he's ok with Meenah, who stabbed him twice, is kinda awful in and of itself, but this is a whole new level of horrendous.

If John was going to object or have any kind of character defining moment, it'd be now. But he's pretty much devolved into a non-entity.

The site's been blocked from my computer to prevent me from even accidentally clicking back out of habit. I just can't bring myself to keep reading.

[Doran]

Yeah, I'm still hoping this alt-selves reality plot line will get resolved somehow, this would have been a good moment.

On the discussion a bit back on how to use the Felt's powers, you just need trace or fin, since both can pass/ receive info through time by interacting with their past future trails. You use this to pass messages back/forward to yourself about how to solve a puzzle using the powers of the felt once you have solved it.

Basically you exploit that the main timeline is always self consistent - it already and always happened. Thus Caliborn tries way number n to solve a puzzle, if it fails, write down n+1 to send back, and so on, creating an unstable loop. He then ensure the only way the loop stabilises is by him sending the solved solution back to himself in the past.

Hat-tip to Harry Potter and the methods of rationality for the information from norhing method of time travel.

[Jayngfet]

Yeah, I'm still hoping this alt-selves reality plot line will get resolved somehow

Stop fooling yourself. When has homestuck ever gotten satisfactory resolution that it didn't just ruin later by not being able to leave well enough alone? Out of all the stuff Hussie started, name one plotline that's actually ended, finally and forever, with no chance of just being dragged back up.

Hussie won't fix this. He has no motive to. The fandom already gave him enough money to literally do whatever he wants for the rest of his life and all of his projects are already paid for. Hell, have you seen some of his non MSPA work? Just looking at the difference between his best and what he's put out once homestuck got big has shown that he isn't putting out anything near what he could. Because he has no need to, because you people will keep reading anyway. He's not going to get better. This is it. This is the level that the whole story is going to be at.

[Draconi Redfir]

Okay Jang, that's nice, Buhbye now.

If your going to quit homestuck you may as well quit this thread, as that's kinda the only thing we talk about here. if you want to talk about how much you hate the comic you might want to try somewhere else, i don't think anyone here wants to hear about it.

[Tectonic Robot]

Joooohn is back. Yaaaaaaaay. ^_^

[B. Dandelion]

Guess I shoulda stuck to my guns on being horrified by Vriska in the first place. I lowballed how awful this was. I'm especially disappointed in Aranea. The way she talks how what she's doing now is about not hiding from her powers any more, as though she were trying to escape some essential part of her nature rather than demonstrate an admirable restraint, is just sad to me. You couldn't find another way to embrace all aspects of your own, I guess Scorpio, nature?

Also:

MEENAH: maybe some day ill find an heiress who my genes dont instinctively make me wanna murder on sight
MEENAH: then i can teach her the badass ways of being a boss n ****!

We know specifically that Jane is the batterwitch heir, so could that be Meenah foreshadowing a future relationship with her, or just insight as to how HIC might think of her already?

[super dark33]

IDE:What Vriska is actually searching for is the void session: no one can find Muse english but Calliope, and no one can find Calliope but the Lalondes.
this is the best thing the army can do to contribute to the battle with english
and This is Vriska's fate.

[Androgeus]

I mean the fact that he's ok with Meenah, who stabbed him twice, is kinda awful in and of itself, but this is a whole new level of horrendous.

Isn't this just John being John?

Okay Jang, that's nice, Buhbye now.

If your going to quit homestuck you may as well quit this thread, as that's kinda the only thing we talk about here. if you want to talk about how much you hate the comic you might want to try somewhere else, i don't think anyone here wants to hear about it.

I don't mind reading criticism about the comic, I just won't respond to it because I'm terrible at opinion based arguing.

[Shadow of the Sun]

There's still time for John to say that this is morally wrong.

He's kind of... off-put by the fact that trolls are completely insane. Iunno.

We'll see.

[memnarch]

Okay Jang, that's nice, Buhbye now.

If your going to quit homestuck you may as well quit this thread, as that's kinda the only thing we talk about here. if you want to talk about how much you hate the comic you might want to try somewhere else, i don't think anyone here wants to hear about it.

I like getting outside opinions as long as they're on recent things. And there's no need to be condescending to people you don't like.

[Friv]

As updates go, this is a pretty... massively horrifying one.

After the amount of effort that Hussie has put into showing alt-selves as being real people with dreams and hopes and etc., it really does feel like Vriska has just flat-out regressed to a point far past where she began on the "horrible monster" scale. Mind-controlling her friends into genocide by the thousands is really, really not cool.

Wildly.

Normally I'm the first on the "well let's not judge yet" train, but this is climbing the ranks of atrocities in webcomics pretty quick. I'm just trying to decide if Hussie is trying to shake off all remaining sympathy for the trolls in advance of murdering them all or something. First he went with Karkat's expression of admiration for the Condesce's "murder everyone" plans, then Gamzee finished his apotheosis of evil, then Terezi started down the path to juggaloville, and now this.

[Ninja Dragon]

I had forgotten why I used to hate Vriska. This update helped me remember.

Well, it seems Vriska's character development was just temporary. Maybe she realized a few things about her personality, but in the end didn't bother to change them. Because she likes to be a 8itch. It's what she is.

I guess Vriska is going to get a fate worse than death if this comic is going to end in any satisfactory way for her.

As for Aranea... I never liked her before. She is too bland of a character. I think she realized that, and decided to become like Vriska to have some personality. But this is just wrong.

Also, am I the only one who felt a little joy in seeing the pre-scratch trolls being used as puppets? Specially Kankri and Cronus. I hate most of the pre-scracth trolls with a passion, they are bland and useless, so becoming Vriska's puppets has been their greatest achievement as characters. Also, notice how Hussie is showing mostly unpupular characters in that panel. Maybe he has the same opinion as me.

[Draconi Redfir]

Well i'm pretty sure the only pre-scratch trolls that are in any way important are Meenah and Arena, /maybe/ Kurloz due to his relaition with Gamzee, but that's pretty much it. Hussie just had to add in everyone else to complete the set.

So yeah i can picture him not being a fan of the others either.

[Ninja Dragon]

Well i'm pretty sure the only pre-scratch trolls that are in any way important are Meenah and Arena, /maybe/ Kurloz due to his relaition with Gamzee, but that's pretty much it. Hussie just had to add in everyone else to complete the set.

So yeah i can picture him not being a fan of the others either.

The only pre troll I find mildly likable is Meenah. And only because she is hilarious, since she is also a bitch. Really, those characters are awful. Even Hussie has admitted that, in his comentary at the end of Meenahquest.

Stop fooling yourself. When has homestuck ever gotten satisfactory resolution that it didn't just ruin later by not being able to leave well enough alone? Out of all the stuff Hussie started, name one plotline that's actually ended, finally and forever, with no chance of just being dragged back up.

Have you seem Cascade?

[Draconi Redfir]

Being a bad person doesn't equate to being a bad character, just keep that in mind. Heck sometimes the worst people are the best characters, just look at darth vader and Dracula.

[Ninja Dragon]

I can only imagine the amount of rage that would be going on the MSPA forums after this update, if they were working... Danmit.

Being a bad person doesn't equate to being a bad character, just keep that in mind. Heck sometimes the worst people are the best characters, just look at darth vader and Dracula.

Yes, but being a bad person and having nothing else to show makes for an AWFUL character. Vriska is a good character, because she is complex and had a lot of character development, though somewhat innefective. Characters like Kankri and Damara are not. They are just walking blobs of dickdom.

[Jayngfet]

Being a bad person doesn't equate to being a bad character, just keep that in mind. Heck sometimes the worst people are the best characters, just look at darth vader and Dracula.

No, having no development that actually sticks and having the bulk of her friendships and meaningful relationships happening offscreen is what makes her a bad character. Darth Vader, in the end, went from a dude who choked out his own men into someone who was willing to kill his master to save his son.

Vriska doesn't have that.

Also, if you can't defend something you like against criticism, then it was never worth defending anyway.

Though given your defense of eugenics a few pages back your precedent for defending things you agree with is kind of tainted.

Have you seem Cascade?

That ended maybe one thing. The only characters it killed off were the ones who didn't actually have any speaking parts anyway and were mostly secondary even in their own segment, even considering that this segment had become largely irrelevant like a year ago. Except maybe Doc Scratch, who is technically possessed, though honestly I'm willing to give you that as the only real meaningful character who actually died instead of just getting slightly shifted around.

I mean really, Dave and Rose going God Tier changed absolutely nothing about them. They haven't actually used any real god tiered abilities. It was just a cheap way to keep them in the story.

[Friv]

The only pre troll I find mildly likable is Meenah. And only because she is hilarious, since she is also a bitch. Really, those characters are awful. Even Hussie has admitted that, in his comentary at the end of Meenahquest.

I quite liked Mituna, despite how hard he was to freaking read.

(And I liked Rufioh, Damara and Horuss in a small dose, but once was enough.)

[Draconi Redfir]

Heeeyyy yeah, thanks for twisting things way out of proportion there mate. glad your havin fun with that.

If your gunna stick around then i think i'm gunna bail for awhile, i have issues about sticking around with people who are gunna be jerks for no real reason. Whelp, looks like this is goin the way of the CAD and and LICD threads, being filled with people who hate the dang thing and yet still read it and look for excuses to talk about it for some reason. never did understand that. I'll come back if and when i feel the thread is more about liking the comic the thread is actually for rather then just being an outlet for unnecessary hate against it that really has no reason to be vocalized here.


And for the record, it's been three years. That character development your so upset about disappearing? Yeah that was three years ago, Vriska's kinda been wandering around the dream bubbles for three years, if not longer due to furthest ring shenanigans, and with everyone around her apparently forgiving her after some time, it was probably easy to revert back to how she was, who even knows.

if anything, it's just more character development from the development that already happened. You don't just develop to a point and stop forever, you keep going. sometimes that makes you go the wrong way.


Also for the record, you don't need to have this whole transition from bad guy to good guy or bad-guy-who-regrets-it to be a good/interesting character. sometimes people are just fine and dandy the way they are.

also ALSO for the record, This. If you can't read it the green text is basically you talking about how horrible these people are, and the red text is me not understanding what your point is. People can like bad-person characters. it kinda happens.

That is all! G'bye, call me when things grow up.

[Ninja Dragon]

If anything, look at Xykon. He is a terrific character. Aside from being evil, he is hilarious, a very good villain, a force that moves the plot, and a very threatening and scary being.

But redeeming him would ruin his character.

[Doran]

I'm not surprised at Vriska, just how all the other characters seem to be going along with it.This is starting to approach the Eight Deadly Words for me.

EDIT: On the bright side, I'm glad he had Jade enter now instead of waiting until April 13/4/13.