MS Paint Adventures 7: At the Price of Oblivion

[Shadow of the Sun]

What I've learned from recent updates:

No-one really has free will. If a player is evil (or good), they are not so out of choice but instead because that's what Skaia and the Incinisphere demand.

While there may be characters I dislike, such as Vriska, I can't dislike her because she's an evil murderous 8itch; she is that way because she had no choice in the matter at all.

I'm getting very Legacy of Kain vibes.

To some people, this would make the story pointless or worse- I think Jayngfet is one such person. But I still enjoy it.

[Scowling Dragon]

Not that at any point does it SAY that its outside of free will. It just states that the game adapts to the persons choice. So its the opposite way. The person determines the game. Not the game the person.

The story is pointless because of very DIFFERENT reasons. But its pointless indeed. Its been pointless for a while so this doesn't change anything.

[Cavelcade]

Still disagree - it's no more or less pointless than any other story I know of.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Not that at any point does it SAY that its outside of free will. It just states that the game adapts to the persons choice. So its the opposite way. The person determines the game. Not the game the person.

The story is pointless because of very DIFFERENT reasons. But its pointless indeed. Its been pointless for a while so this doesn't change anything.

Could you not make wide-sweeping statements like that?

Not "the story is pointless" but "I find the story pointless".

It gives me the illusion that my opinion is worth a damn.

[Scowling Dragon]

Sure, yes sorry. Il add that to my signature.

There.

[Tectonic Robot]

What I've learned from recent updates:

No-one really has free will. If a player is evil (or good), they are not so out of choice but instead because that's what Skaia and the Incinisphere demand.

While there may be characters I dislike, such as Vriska, I can't dislike her because she's an evil murderous 8itch; she is that way because she had no choice in the matter at all.

I'm getting very Legacy of Kain vibes.

To some people, this would make the story pointless or worse- I think Jayngfet is one such person. But I still enjoy it.

Yeah, my biggest beef with homestuck (I don't talk about my homestuck beefs much) is the predestination, and the lack of choice folks have. Caliborn was always going to be the evil one, and Calliope was always going to be the good one. It's how their race worked!

And they couldn't choose otherwise because they wouldn't choose otherwise, because the thing that was predestined was their very personality. I find that kind of sad.

Doomed timelines are annoying, too. Maybe I should send a letter to Hussie. :0


On a sidenote: Why can't we all just be friends~

[Scowling Dragon]

Different viewpoints and opinions.

[PhantomFox]

Honestly, I've forgotten what the goal the story is going towards now ever since the scratch. There's been a lot of setup, and I'm starting to wonder if the payout will be worth the amount of dinking around that's been going on.

[Tectonic Robot]

Honestly, I've forgotten what the goal the story is going towards now ever since the scratch. There's been a lot of setup, and I'm starting to wonder if the payout will be worth the amount of dinking around that's been going on.

Uh, I think it's go to the new session, and make the universe there.

Although yeah, I think we could've done with less dinking around. The plot was somewhat more focused in acts 2 through 4, I think. Jack Noir was a fine villain, you know. I'm not saying I don't like English, but dang, lots of time spent in buildup.

[Scowling Dragon]

Though the question is, that if its SO easy for demonic helldemons to go around and blow up universes what is the point. Aprenatly the universes reproductive systems like to give away unlimited power so that monsters can go around destroying them.

If thats the end goal, then its a really shallow one indeed.

[Tectonic Robot]

Though the question is, that if its SO easy for demonic helldemons to go around and blow up universes what is the point. Aprenatly the universes reproductive systems like to give away unlimited power so that monsters can go around destroying them.

If thats the end goal, then its a really shallow one indeed.

It don't think it actually is easy for anyone to get the kind of power Caliborn has. When you take into account that you need someone to embark on a one person session, go through hundreds of terrible, tedious tasks, take the choice of the conqueror, conquer fifteen planets which become more and more difficult with each iteration, and finally defeat Yaldaboeth himself in single combat, I think it's pretty apparent that the amount of people who can actually make it through the conqueror's path is extremely small! I wouldn't be surprised if Caliborn, with his unique personality and racial bonuses, was the only one to actually succeed.

And the shallowness of the goal is a pretty subjective topic.

[Scowling Dragon]

Im not JUST referring to Caliborn. Im referring to his destructive mindless Parents, Jack, Snowman, and in general.

The game seems so easy to hijack and take over its ridiculous!

Also the story has been sinning PRETTY badly. Its been telling. Not showing.

How hard is it to conquer and destroy a planet? I donno. Never shown. Just told.

Since John (With almost no effort) had the power to essentially make a Tornado the size of a mega drill and almost destroy a Planet from the inside, and Claiborne is supposed to be MORE powerful then that? How hard can it be? In fact we see people blowing up planets left and right with little less then the flex of their left buttocks.

We are just TOLD. Not shown.

My issue is that the only reason the conquerors destroy universes in the first place is for no reason. Not any at all. They are given their powers why?

Because. No explanation. The past while had been just a big re-cap of everything we already knew or could reasonably interpret.

But still no info on WHY this is done. Or shown HOW it is done. Im pretty sure no animal on the planet has a reproduction function that creates a demon that jumps out of your pants and then proceeds to also kill your parents.

[Tectonic Robot]

Im not JUST referring to Caliborn. Im referring to his destructive mindless Parents, Jack, Snowman, and in general.

Well, cherubs have an odd racial structure. They're either tyrants or heroes, and don't have much choice in the matter. Although it isn't a compelling reason for destruction, it's still valid.

Jack's destruction seems to originate from his impulsiveness, immaturity, and boredom. It's not mindless - he just can't think of anything better to do. Again, not very compelling, but valid.

I don't see what you mean about Snowman's destructiveness. Do you mean how her death was tied to the end of the world? We don't know the details of her deal with English, and I believe Hussie said that she was tired of living and basically committed suicide at the end.

The game seems so easy to hijack and take over its ridiculous!

Yeah, it does seem pretty easy to mess with the game's story, although the potential to do so seems to be part of the game.

Also the story has been sinning PRETTY badly. Its been telling. Not showing.

How hard is it to conquer and destroy a planet? I donno. Never shown. Just told.

If you're talking about the recent info dump, I'm glad for it. We finally have a reason for why Lord English is Lord English! One of the greatest enigmas of the story is explained.

Homestuck, overall, has had a great track record in showing and telling in general, in my opinion. Most of the flashes have been excellent examples of that. Also, apparently planets are really fragile. Maybe they're all actually made of glass... soft glass...

Since John (With almost no effort) had the power to essentially make a Tornado the size of a mega drill and almost destroy a Planet from the inside, and Claiborne is supposed to be MORE powerful then that? How hard can it be? In fact we see people blowing up planets left and right with little less then the flex of their left buttocks.

John's a godtier, which he had got by accessing his windy thing power and then dying on his quest bed. The reason why it wasn't hard for him is because Vriska, who had done the exploring and knew the shortcuts, basically sent him on the easy path. Like, beating Morrowind in five minutes instead of playing through the whole game, I guess.

Caliborn, on the other hand, spent what is probably years on his dead, cold planet, doing mind-numbingly tedious tasks alone except for a clown juggalo dude. He then conquered fifteen planets (not shown, though) and fought Yaldaboeth (might be shown?) and ascended into the power to blow up the fabric of reality with his face. So, uh, I think there's some effort and reward stuff going on here.

We are just TOLD. Not shown.

My issue is that the only reason the conquerors destroy universes in the first place is for no reason. Not any at all. They are given their powers why?

We are shown! Flashes and jazz, you know? The reason why Caliborn is trying to destroy everything is because of his personality. For a race that's separated into good and bad at birth, he was blessed/cursed with one of the most wanton, vicious personalities availiable to cherubs. What's more, he exacerbated this problem by killing his sister prematurely.

We don't know how Skaia judges dead sessions, though, so I don't know the reasoning behind empowering the conqueror.

Because. No explanation. The past while had been just a big re-cap of everything we already knew or could reasonably interpret.

Is your beef with just the recent updates? Because I like them. It explains things much more thoroughly than we could've known otherwise.

But still no info on WHY this is done. Or shown HOW it is done. Im pretty sure no animal on the planet has a reproduction function that creates a demon that jumps out of your pants and then proceeds to also kill your parents.

Well, no animal is a universe, so... >_>

[Scowling Dragon]

I thought that it was bloomin obvious. And of course Caliborn had Gamzees, and Hussies (How? Why?) help.

Also John had planet spanning power even before god-tier.

My point with Snowman was that for some stupid reason, it was possible to tie the life of a single individual to the life blood of the universe.

And Lord English is a REALY flat Villian. Even flatter then Jack Noir.

Because even though there is this HEAPING backstory behind how he was made its no more clever or detailed then:

Well hes an ******* and the universe just works this way.

And the "Universe just works this way" isn't introduced beforehand. Its introduced whilst its happening.

We knew that the Rings granted the powers to Carpacians. So when Jack got it we where like "****!" and we already knew the rules for Prototyping so when Beck got prototyped we where like "****!".

It was a manipulation of the Puzzle rules that where meant to work a certain way, into working a different way.

But English? The universe is literally handing him his powers on a platter (Though the story TELLS us its hard we see 0 evidence.) and saying "Go wild".

Things is, the rules before where crazy. But that was following in the footsteps of Problem Sleuth. And sort of had this "Play a game to create the world" feel to it. And when rules where bent it was scary and interesting and NEW. B

But now the rules just bend for whats convenient to create whatever scenario is necessary. The change is that instead of the rules, creating a scenario, Hussie is creating the scenario first and bending the rules so the scenario makes sense banana flapjack muffins.

"I guess Hussie is just conveniently helping along."

"I guess conveniently Gamzee snuck into THE DESTROYED UNIVERSE! Somehow."

"I guess Jujus can turn people into explosion eyeball man"

"I guess the Felt where just WAITING on the planets for use as cronies".

Before, the rules where rather simple, but where ripe for abuse. And that was the intersting part. Finding out how everything entertwined.

But this is allot less elegant. Its just hammering itself into the story. If Hussie could have properly planned the story for like 4 years, then Im sure he could have done it for 6.

My theory was that this was hammered in rather recently without much entertwining.

[Who What Now]

{{scrubbed}}

[Tectonic Robot]

I thought that it was bloomin obvious. And of course Caliborn had Gamzees, and Hussies (How? Why?) help.

You thought what was blooming obvious, exactly?

Also John had planet spanning power even before god-tier.

The windy thing, yes. I don't see the problem with this. What he did amounted to planetoid fire fighting (planetoid because the kids' planets aren't actually that big) and I assume the early manifestation of it came from his status as Heir.

My point with Snowman was that for some stupid reason, it was possible to tie the life of a single individual to the life blood of the universe.

There's a lot of emotional wording in your post, and you seem really angry about this whole thing. As far as Snowman's blood goes, I think the 'stupid reason' is that English's unlimited potential from destruction comes in more ways then deadly mouth laser.

And Lord English is a REALY flat Villian. Even flatter then Jack Noir.

Because even though there is this HEAPING backstory behind how he was made its no more clever or detailed then:

Well hes an ******* and the universe just works this way.

I'd contest that. It is a lot more clever and detailed than "Well hes an ******* and the universe just works this way." While his motives for his villainry are flat, I find his character interesting. I don't think Caliborn is a boring character.

And the "Universe just works this way" isn't introduced beforehand. Its introduced whilst its happening.

I think 'the "Universe just works this way"' has been a theme in this comic for a very long time.

We knew that the Rings granted the powers to Carpacians. So when Jack got it we where like "****!" and we already knew the rules for Prototyping so when Beck got prototyped we where like "****!".

It was a manipulation of the Puzzle rules that where meant to work a certain way, into working a different way.

But English? The universe is literally handing him his powers on a platter (Though the story TELLS us its hard we see 0 evidence.) and saying "Go wild".

I agree. Jack's ascension and double ascension had much more impact then Lord English's due to our knowledge of how the items worked.

The universe isn't handing him his powers on a silver platter. You appear to believe the opposite of what the story is saying because instead of a montage of planet fighting shots, we have Aranea doing a voice over and images of Caliborn entering his session and talking to Yaldaboeth.

Who knows, maybe the next update will address your grievances?

Things is, the rules before where crazy. But that was following in the footsteps of Problem Sleuth. And sort of had this "Play a game to create the world" feel to it. And when rules where bent it was scary and interesting and NEW. B

But now the rules just bend for whats convenient to create whatever scenario is necessary. The change is that instead of the rules, creating a scenario, Hussie is creating the scenario first and bending the rules so the scenario makes sense banana flapjack muffins.

I don't see how any rules are being broken in the case of Lord English's ascension.

"I guess Hussie is just conveniently helping along."

"I guess conveniently Gamzee snuck into THE DESTROYED UNIVERSE! Somehow."

"I guess Jujus can turn people into explosion eyeball man"

"I guess the Felt where just WAITING on the planets for use as cronies".

Well, yes, Hussie was helping him. It was pretty convenient. And yeah, Gamzee snuck into the destroyed universe, probably using clown powers and dreambubbles, so somehow applies. And yes, jujus make explosion eyeball men a possibility. And the Felt were just kind of waiting there for Caliborn, ready to be henchmen.

I don't see why those are bad things, though.

Before, the rules where rather simple, but where ripe for abuse. And that was the intersting part. Finding out how everything entertwined.

But this is allot less elegant. Its just hammering itself into the story. If Hussie could have properly planned the story for like 4 years, then Im sure he could have done it for 6.

My theory was that this was hammered in rather recently without much entertwining.

I disagree with you. I don't think finding out how everything fit together was the interesting part.

I respect your opinion, though. I'm sorry if anything I said in this response could be construed as an insult.

On a closing note, are you familiar with the MSTK mantra? "It's just a show: Relax and enjoy yourself", or something along those lines. Perhaps an attitude more in line with that would facilitate a more enjoyable experience with Homestuck?


{{scrubbed}}

[PhantomFox]

{{scrubbed}}

And I actually have to agree here that while the content is great, the delivery could have been better. I like the worldbuilding, but the delivery is essentially a giant info-dump.

[Who What Now]

{{scrubbed}}

[memnarch]

...

The Lord of the Rings, often hailed as some of the best fantasy ever written, is almost nothing but telling! But that doesn't make it bad, because telling isn't a "grevious sin" unless it's overused or used at the wrong time. This isn't one of those times.

Well technically The Lord of the Rings is nothing but telling as it's a book. This is a webcomic with images, so there should be showing as well here.

---------------------------

I think the problem here is that despite being told/shown how there's all these challenges and troubles in the way of mini-english, we're told that he wins anyway and told repeated at that. I find that makes it much less interesting than it would normally otherwise be.

[PhantomFox]

{{scrubbed}}

That is correct, there must always be balance. Direct exposition has its place, this is true. But I'm not convinced this is the place to do a large chunk of it. Not to mention the fact that it's killing the pacing. Telling is important for getting across information, and we do have some tidbits that are important coming across. Showing is usually better for getting across moods and emotions and tones. I'm just not sure which is being attempted at this point. The new info about the cherub life cycle is interesting, but only a few parts of it seem relevant right now. Namely that Lord English's opposite is coming. Maybe I'm wrong and there's more, we'll see. But if we're supposed to get a sense of Caliborn being a Juggernaut through sheer force of will, I'm not feeling it.

So yeah, how would I do it? I guess that depends on what the purpose of the scene is, and I'm not sure what that is yet. My instinct would be to change the framing device on how this side-story is being told. Perhaps something from Caliborn's point of view, with some emphasis included showing him overcoming the impossible through brute force and willpower.

[Who What Now]

Well technically The Lord of the Rings is nothing but telling as it's a book.

Only the worst authors can't show in a book. Show means a lot more than pictures.

Not to mention the fact that it's killing the pacing. Telling is important for getting across information, and we do have some tidbits that are important coming across. Showing is usually better for getting across moods and emotions and tones. I'm just not sure which is being attempted at this point.

It's pretty obvious to me that it's the former, but that's me. And you honestly don't think that going through all of Caliborn's quest in depth wouldn't be more harmful to the pacing right now? Lord English has never been meant to be a villain that we can empathize with and understand, he's supposed to be an enigmatic monster of unimaginable power, to be a ultimate hurdle for the heroes to overcome. Going over every single minor detail in the course of his life isn't condusive to that, and so it's not necessary.

[PhantomFox]

Only the worst authors can't show in a book. Show means a lot more than pictures.



It's pretty obvious to me that it's the former, but that's me. And you honestly don't think that going through all of Caliborn's quest in depth wouldn't be more harmful to the pacing right now? Lord English has never been meant to be a villain that we can empathize with and understand, he's supposed to be an enigmatic monster of unimaginable power, to be a ultimate hurdle for the heroes to overcome. Going over every single minor detail in the course of his life isn't condusive to that, and so it's not necessary.

I guess so. But if I were in a position to try and fix the pacing, I'd change a lot more than just this scene. I guess I'm just irked a bit by such a bald-faced info-dump. I mean, exposition is fine, but shouldn't they be woven a bit better into the narrative? The subject came up first as an example of a race that is more 'evil' than the trolls are. If the point of this scene is to give us info on English and potential tools to defeat him, shouldn't they be talking about that before the story started? Perhaps they were since this is Aranea's second telling of the story, but even so...

[super dark33]

Showing makes us know. Telling makes them know.

[The_Final_Stand]

A new album, Cherubim, is out. Contains the godly Eternity Served Cold used in Caliborn: Enter.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Anyone tried speeding up what Yaldabaoth says to Caliborn in the latest flash?

[Jayngfet]

What I've learned from recent updates:

No-one really has free will. If a player is evil (or good), they are not so out of choice but instead because that's what Skaia and the Incinisphere demand.

While there may be characters I dislike, such as Vriska, I can't dislike her because she's an evil murderous 8itch; she is that way because she had no choice in the matter at all.

I'm getting very Legacy of Kain vibes.

To some people, this would make the story pointless or worse- I think Jayngfet is one such person. But I still enjoy it.

Honestly, it's kind of stupid. Not because of predestination itself, which is a complex issue we won't get into here, but because of the way it's presented.

I mean when you're predestined according to class and species to such a degree, your circumstances and random chance don't even matter anymore. Vriska, to keep the example up, has absolutley no say in the matter because Vriska doesn't even exist as a specific character anymore. She's a Troll Thief of Light with Blue Blood who reached the first God Tier.

This might make a decent summary, but when those terms presented the way they were dominate it just loses all nuance. That sentence pretty much with the information we have now makes her fate entirely predestined and gives her no real traits that don't factor back to a set of terms that have no real life bearing to reference. She stops being a character with her own motivations and wants who differs from her alternate by virtue of upbringing. She starts being that way because somebody erased one word on her profile and replaced it with a different one.

It's like a bad RPG character, where the player doesn't think about the character as an entity so much as a collection of stats and won't let the character ever move beyond a set of abstract numbers meant to represent reality instead of confine it. Rose stops being the girl who wrote long winded weird fanfiction because of the way she was raised and the circumstances she was born(crashed) into, and starts being just another Seer who won't shut the heck up for five minutes. Caliborn isn't a guy who achieved everything through spite and perserverance. He's a wacky alien who's nature was decided the moment he was hatched and then lucked out by virtue of having the best class which predetermined him as also being an aggressive a-hole.

By tying the characters up in an imaginary system and attributing everything to a simple grid and a word matching exercise just kind of ruins the concept of characterization. I get that game tropes are things often applied to literally, but RPG classes are meant to encourage and imply a back-story and motive, not dictate it.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Jayngfet: all of which are valid complaints. And the concept that it's "supposed to be a satire of RPGs!" doesn't make them null.

That said, I still enjoy Homestuck, and will continue to read it until such point that I don't or it ends.

I personally think that Hussie is still good at characterization, but the biggest issue is that he's got too many characters for him to give the interesting ones enough focus.

Vriska is still around because otherwise the fandom would explode, even though she's really not that interesting any more.

I think that the most interesting characters at the moment are: Karkat and Roxy.

Karkat's always been a complex character; hell, Calliope and Caliborn are or more accurately were ways of throwing Karkat into relief.

As for Roxy, well, I think that her talk after the Trickster Mode thingy highlights how well Hussie could be writing if he didn't have a cast of 78 trillion.

I think the Legacy of Kain example is an interesting one- in that universe, only one character has free will, and other characters are typified by who they are in terms of their connection with the Pillars of Reality etc. It's just nowhere near as explicit as it is in Homestuck.

Oh, and probably better written.

[The_Final_Stand]

I mean when you're predestined according to class and species to such a degree, your circumstances and random chance don't even matter anymore. Vriska, to keep the example up, has absolutley no say in the matter because Vriska doesn't even exist as a specific character anymore. She's a Troll Thief of Light with Blue Blood who reached the first God Tier.

From my point of view you missed a lot of context there. She's a Cerulean Blood Troll Thief of Light raised by a giant spider who found her ancestor's journal and noted similarities between the characters therein and her friends, took it upon herself to raise one of her friends to live up to the ideal presented in the hope of a potential matespritship, was disappointed badly when he failed, got into a bad situation with an omnipotent cueball-headed guy, etc.

Note how quite a few things in there are her own choices. Perhaps a different Cerulean Blooded Troll Thief of Light wouldn't have taken Tavros' failure to heart so badly. Perhaps this hypothetical troll would have realized how badly Doc Scratch was playing her. And so on.

As Terezi said:
GC: TH3Y TH1NK R34L1TY 1S SOM3TH1NG H4PP3N1NG TO TH3M
GC: R4TH3R TH4N SOM3TH1NG TH3Y 4R3 M4K1NG 3V3RY MOM3NT W1TH 3V3RY THOUGHT

Certainly, many things are predestined (the green sun, Bec Noir's creation to ensure such, Doc Scratch becoming Lord English). But they're only predestined to keep the loops going. Doomed timelines are made for failing to uphold those loops, but not always. See: Terezi, Vriska, and the coin flip before Vriska flew off to fight Jack. Nothing was predestined there.

[Calemyr]

Caliborn is definitely not a very deep character - he's a vicious, dim-witted little brat who manages to use a little base cunning and a LOT of raw bloody-mindedness (and help from allies he would make in the future) to come to power by winning a dead session.

That's really all there is to the guy, as far as we know. He has no motivations beyond enjoying being a ungodly killing machine and orchestrating his own creation. He is not a villain, he's a force.

He himself is not all that interesting. I'd rather be told in shorthand his tedious tale than have to follow him through years of tedious traipsing around a dead Earth before going from world to world on his rite of conquest, learning to use his minions via trial and error and help from Hussie. That would have been a great spinoff, really, but tedious enough with the Beta kids, much less the trolls, then Alpha kids, the prescratch trolls, and Caliborn. There just comes a point where telling is a mercy because we've already seen most of it in some form or another.

A couple questions come to mind though. Did Jake English get his name and the style of his computer gear from Caliborn or did Caliborn crib these from the one individual he considers a proper rival? Is that rivalry because a Page of Hope has much the same path as Caliborn, a very long and very hard path that results in absurd power?

Also, does this long-winded tale set the stage for Muse British? Think about it. Pre-Scratch, Calliope wins the war of wills and Caliborn dies. She goes into the game and is given the Choice and makes her natural decision. This keeps her from getting caught up by the scratch (as Meenah proved, dying is a viable way to escape a scratch). Meaning that somewhere out there is a space muse who chose to make a deal to become the bane of exactly who Lord English became?

I mean, as I understand it, FedoraFreak was changed by the scratch even though he was outside their session - he became FedoraFan, who thinks the hat is nice, but nothing to get too excited over. This would also explain why Doc Scratch worked so hard to initiate the scratch - it was fundamental to creating his master.

As Terezi said:
GC: TH3Y TH1NK R34L1TY 1S SOM3TH1NG H4PP3N1NG TO TH3M
GC: R4TH3R TH4N SOM3TH1NG TH3Y 4R3 M4K1NG 3V3RY MOM3NT W1TH 3V3RY THOUGHT

Certainly, many things are predestined (the green sun, Bec Noir's creation to ensure such, Doc Scratch becoming Lord English). But they're only predestined to keep the loops going. Doomed timelines are made for failing to uphold those loops, but not always. See: Terezi, Vriska, and the coin flip before Vriska flew off to fight Jack. Nothing was predestined there.

Yes and no. As both Terezi and Kanaya point out, Vriska is so caught up in the concept of luck that she doesn't accept any responsibility for her actions. The d4s she steps on aren't because she's cursed or because it's predestined, it's because she won't clean her crap up. Most of Vriska's "bad luck" is directly drawn from bad decisions she has made.

The coin toss, however, was a foregone conclusion. The coin itself was absolutely meaningless, a joke on the concept of chance that both of them could appreciate in their own way. Vriska used her Thief of Light abilities to ensure she won, and Terezi had already shown a willingness to ignore undesirable outcomes. Not only that, but Terezi's Seer of Mind abilities showed her that not only would Vriska obviously cheat, but what would happen if she were allowed to leave on her quest for redemption. So Terezi's actions were always set, not by predestination, but because neither person could BE themselves and do anything else.

[Tectonic Robot]

A new album, Cherubim, is out. Contains the godly Eternity Served Cold used in Caliborn: Enter.

So cool.

Caliborn is definitely not a very deep character - he's a vicious, dim-witted little brat who manages to use a little base cunning and a LOT of raw bloody-mindedness (and help from allies he would make in the future) to come to power by winning a dead session.

That's really all there is to the guy, as far as we know. He has no motivations beyond enjoying being a ungodly killing machine and orchestrating his own creation. He is not a villain, he's a force.

He himself is not all that interesting. I'd rather be told in shorthand his tedious tale than have to follow him through years of tedious traipsing around a dead Earth before going from world to world on his rite of conquest, learning to use his minions via trial and error and help from Hussie. That would have been a great spinoff, really, but tedious enough with the Beta kids, much less the trolls, then Alpha kids, the prescratch trolls, and Caliborn. There just comes a point where telling is a mercy because we've already seen most of it in some form or another.

A couple questions come to mind though. Did Jake English get his name and the style of his computer gear from Caliborn or did Caliborn crib these from the one individual he considers a proper rival? Is that rivalry because a Page of Hope has much the same path as Caliborn, a very long and very hard path that results in absurd power?

Also, does this long-winded tale set the stage for Muse British? Think about it. Pre-Scratch, Calliope wins the war of wills and Caliborn dies. She goes into the game and is given the Choice and makes her natural decision. This keeps her from getting caught up by the scratch (as Meenah proved, dying is a viable way to escape a scratch). Meaning that somewhere out there is a space muse who chose to make a deal to become the bane of exactly who Lord English became?

I mean, as I understand it, FedoraFreak was changed by the scratch even though he was outside their session - he became FedoraFan, who thinks the hat is nice, but nothing to get too excited over. This would also explain why Doc Scratch worked so hard to initiate the scratch - it was fundamental to creating his master.

FedoraFreak is the real star of homestuck.