MS Paint Adventures 7: At the Price of Oblivion

[The_Final_Stand]

The coin toss, however, was a foregone conclusion. The coin itself was absolutely meaningless, a joke on the concept of chance that both of them could appreciate in their own way. Vriska used her Thief of Light abilities to ensure she won, and Terezi had already shown a willingness to ignore undesirable outcomes. Not only that, but Terezi's Seer of Mind abilities showed her that not only would Vriska obviously cheat, but what would happen if she were allowed to leave on her quest for redemption. So Terezi's actions were always set, not by predestination, but because neither person could BE themselves and do anything else.

What do you mean "neither person could be themselves and do anything else"?

Terezi had a choice. Let Vriska leave, and cause Jack to kill her, Karkat, etcetera, on the off chance that Vriska can avenge them, or prevent her from leaving, kill a former friend, and not have to be avenged at all.

Not much of a choice, perhaps, and I'm not disagreeing with you. Terezi was always going to pick the option where only one person dies, because that's who she is. Steeled enough to stab a friend in the back when it's necessary, because the only other option is oblivion and failure.

[AgentPaper]

What do you mean "neither person could be themselves and do anything else"?

Terezi was always going to pick the option where only one person dies, because that's who she is.

You answered your own question.

[The_Final_Stand]

Not really. I thought he said "No one could be themselves and do something else". I said "Terezi was being herself. By picking the path where only one person dies."

Really, it's not like there even were any other potential options. I'm pretty sure when Terezi met Aranea they had a discussion about this. Here.

EDIT: VV Pretty much, yeah. What are we arguing about?

[Calemyr]

Had Terezi decided to let her just go, she wouldn't have been Terezi. Everything that defines her demanded that she take the action she did.

Same thing with Vriska. Even in her need to do one good thing, she was blinded by the artificially inflated confidence that defined her. Her actions were defined by who she was.

What I was trying to say was that there was a level of predestination at work, but not Skaia or English playing their hands. Even with free will, people are bound by their own selves. Terezi had free will but no choice, just as Vriska did.

[The_Final_Stand]

And if there was someone else in Terezi's position, someone weaker willed, even knowing what happens, they may have failed to go through with it, and reality would have turned out differently. Karkat never tells John what he has to do for the Scratch, having been killed by Jack. The Green Sun is still made by Rose and Dave detonating The Tumor, but they float in the Furthest Ring with Aradia for eternity with no convenient meteor for them to ride on. And so on.

Remember, doomed timelines exist because they have an effect on the alpha timeline. Davesprite stopped John from getting killed by Typheus, and Alpha Dave from making Calsprite. Aradia spammed doomed timelines for her army of Aradiabots. Doomed Felt Dave was made by Terezi to explain this stuff to Alpha Dave. And possibly, Doomed Predominating Calliope exists so that she can help defeat Lord English.

How's this for a compromise then: that though choices are offered, who a person is defines how they react to a choice, and the way they react forms reality.

Wow, this is a long argument.

[Jayngfet]

See: Terezi, Vriska, and the coin flip before Vriska flew off to fight Jack. Nothing was predestined there.

You see, the problem is that that's the same issue as Caliborn having like, the choice to either turn into the ultimate evil or lay down and die. It ISN'T a choice, it's an illusion of choice where everybody knows that if there's two distinct outcomes that are so vastly different there's only one real option to take.

[AgentPaper]

You see, the problem is that that's the same issue as Caliborn having like, the choice to either turn into the ultimate evil or lay down and die. It ISN'T a choice, it's an illusion of choice where everybody knows that if there's two distinct outcomes that are so vastly different there's only one real option to take.

Just because it's a really easy choice to make doesn't mean it's not a choice. The illusion of a choice is specifically when you have two (or more) options to choose from, and no matter which one you pick, the same outcome happens.

[Derjuin]

I'm actually enjoying the return to the game concepts. It helps me remember that this is, at its heart, a comic about a video game that makes universes.

Edit: Wow, Eternity Served Cold ...this whole thing wasn't used in the flash, was it. Because I don't remember the last part of it, and it sounds amazing.

[Recaiden]

You see, the problem is that that's the same issue as Caliborn having like, the choice to either turn into the ultimate evil or lay down and die. It ISN'T a choice, it's an illusion of choice where everybody knows that if there's two distinct outcomes that are so vastly different there's only one real option to take.

The problem is that he can't have chosen not to be the conqueror. Because someone who is Caliborn has to travel back in time as Lord English, and you can't change the past. So he has 1 option, and 1 option that could create a doomed timeline, and therefore isn't an option, as the alpha Cal will still be a conqueror.

[AgentPaper]

I'm starting to seriously consider the possibility that the Homestuck Adventure Game is going to be Calliope's session.

[Androgeus]

Hmmm, There's defiantly not a link between these two panels. [1] [2]

[B. Dandelion]

A new album, Cherubim, is out. Contains the godly Eternity Served Cold used in Caliborn: Enter.

OH MY GOD, thank you! I went kind of nuts trying to find that incredible piece before I realized it wasn't out yet.

I think my favorite single is "Even in Death", but it's really hard to call. There is such an amazing surplus of incredible music for this comic.

[Shadow of the Sun]

*facepalm*

Oh Hussie you are the master at trolling.

[WhatBigTeeth]

LepRom is the funniest update ever.

[DukeGod]

The problem is that he can't have chosen not to be the conqueror. Because someone who is Caliborn has to travel back in time as Lord English, and you can't change the past. So he has 1 option, and 1 option that could create a doomed timeline, and therefore isn't an option, as the alpha Cal will still be a conqueror.

But the reason why he can't choose not to be the conqueror aren't those.
He can only choose to become the conqueror because it is the only choice that would still make him. Calliborn IS a conqueror, at his very core.

The fact that he travels back in time as Lord English isn't the reason as to why he chose to be the Conqueror. It's one of the consequences that happens from his becoming a conqueror, even if it was presented to us before we knew of it

[Lord Raziere]

LepRom is the funniest update ever.

but we didn't get to hear about Lep reproduction! is it exclusively homosexual maybe? or do they perhaps somehow change genders in the process or something?

[AgentPaper]

but we didn't get to hear about Lep reproduction! is it exclusively homosexual maybe? or do they perhaps somehow change genders in the process or something?

Oh I'm sure the fandom will come up with something suitably...interesting.

[Friv]

Well, all of Lord English's leprechauns are male, aren't they? Or at least are portrayed as such by Spades. Perhaps they are actually either asexual or hermaphroditic?

[Raz_Fox]

A new album, Cherubim, is out. Contains the godly Eternity Served Cold used in Caliborn: Enter.

Sometimes I can't believe you guys. You've been spending all this time arguing about agency and free will in Homestuck when you could have been raving about Carne Vale.

Dang, if that isn't my new favorite Homestuck song, I don't know what is.

[The_Final_Stand]

Uh, hold on. Last I remember, Terezi did not have those.

And she was unwilling to get them back.

BWUH?!

[Androgeus]

Uh, hold on. Last I remember, Terezi did not have those.

And she was unwilling to get them back.

BWUH?!

erm, Tezeri has eyes. Blindness just means they don't work, not that she doesn't have eyes.

[Shadow of the Sun]

erm, Tezeri has eyes. Blindness just means they don't work, not that she doesn't have eyes.

Canonically, Terezi doesn't have eyes like the other trolls do. Hers are just...red blank eyeballs.

[The_Final_Stand]

I was referring more to the little dots in the middle. Terezi's blind eyes have always been pure red. These eyes are not only orange-yellow, but have pupils.

They'd look bloodshot, if she didn't have teal blood.

[Tectonic Robot]

but we didn't get to hear about Lep reproduction! is it exclusively homosexual maybe? or do they perhaps somehow change genders in the process or something?

Leprooooooooooooooom @_@

Sometimes I can't believe you guys. You've been spending all this time arguing about agency and free will in Homestuck when you could have been raving about Carne Vale.

Dang, if that isn't my new favorite Homestuck song, I don't know what is.

Carne Valeeeeeeeee

Raz Fooooooooooooox

I was referring more to the little dots in the middle. Terezi's blind eyes have always been pure red. These eyes are not only orange-yellow, but have pupils.

They'd look bloodshot, if she didn't have teal blood.

What is going oooonnn with Teereeeeziiiii

[Shadow of the Sun]

I love this update just for the awesome Karkatness.

[Squark]

I have the urge to make Karkat Tantrum bingo cards.

EDIT: 24 minutes later, and I have done it. But I have no idea where to post it (I don't know of a fanart thread in the MSPA forums, and since I used some of Karkat's more... colorful language, I'd be breaking rules if I posted it here).

Edit2: Someone considerably wittier than I made this infinitely superior version.

[Tectonic Robot]

This update was fantastic. Stuff like this is why I follow the webcomic. ^_^

I have the urge to make Karkat Tantrum bingo cards.

EDIT: 24 minutes later, and I have done it. But I have no idea where to post it (I don't know of a fanart thread in the MSPA forums, and since I used some of Karkat's more... colorful language, I'd be breaking rules if I posted it here).

Edit2: Someone considerably wittier than I made this infinitely superior version.

Show us yours anyway. o.o

[Squark]

Here you go, Tectonic Robot

Not happy with the font, and in hindsight using the Angry Karkat picture didnt really work, but there you go.

[Friv]

Here you go, Tectonic Robot

Not happy with the font, and in hindsight using the Angry Karkat picture didnt really work, but there you go.

I disagree. The Angry Karkat picture is outstanding.

[Tectonic Robot]

Here you go, Tectonic Robot

Not happy with the font, and in hindsight using the Angry Karkat picture didnt really work, but there you go.

Your angry Karkat is p. cool, and I like your bingo. 0.0