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Thread: Did durkon know?
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2013-02-19, 03:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Did durkon know?
When he was being chummy with malak, do you think durkon knew he was apparently a vampire? If so would he as a cleric have a problem with that?
With the crimson light of rage that burns blood red
let evil souls be crushed by fear and dread.
With the power of a rightful hate
I BURN THE EVIL! THAT IS MY FATE!
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2013-02-19, 04:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: Did durkon know?
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2013-02-19, 05:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Did durkon know?
With the crimson light of rage that burns blood red
let evil souls be crushed by fear and dread.
With the power of a rightful hate
I BURN THE EVIL! THAT IS MY FATE!
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2013-02-19, 05:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: Did durkon know?
Probably not. Durkon is a bit dull at times, especially when it's about his friends. Eck, he didn't even want to consider that Malack joined the linear guild despite Tarquin doing so.
I don't even expect him to believe that Malack is a vampire if told until he sees him draining someone in front of him.Last edited by Chantelune; 2013-02-19 at 05:57 AM.
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2013-02-19, 07:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Did durkon know?
Durkon couldn't even recognize a cleric of his god's rival.
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2013-02-19, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
- Location
- Korea
- Gender
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2013-02-19, 05:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
- Location
- Wisconsin, USA
- Gender
Re: Did durkon know?
Durkon's a nice guy, but his situational awareness is close to zero.
So no, I don't think he knew or even suspected Malack is a vampire.Spoiler
So the song runs on, with shift and change,
Through the years that have no name,
And the late notes soar to a higher range,
But the theme is still the same.
Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
Blend in with the old, old rhyme
That was traced in the score of the strata marks
While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark
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2013-02-19, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Did durkon know?
Yeah, I really have to object to this characterization.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0352.htmlWith the crimson light of rage that burns blood red
let evil souls be crushed by fear and dread.
With the power of a rightful hate
I BURN THE EVIL! THAT IS MY FATE!
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2013-02-19, 06:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Did durkon know?
Durkon is a lovable character, but he *is* Lawful Good. Doesn't that basically make him dumb by default?
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2013-02-19, 06:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Did durkon know?
Durkon is a lovable character, but he *is* Lawful Good. Doesn't that basically make him dumb by default?
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2013-02-19, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Did durkon know?
Heh, I love TVtropes, and i do agree that Good itself isnt *always* dumb, but in my not so humble opinion, *Lawful* Good is another story. Any intelligence a being might possess is watered down to the point of uselessness when one is constrained to zealotry.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LawfulStupid hehe ;)
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2013-02-19, 06:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
Re: Did durkon know?
That's not Durkon, that's Miko
A game is a fictional construct created for the sake of the players, not the other way around. If you have a question "How do I keep X from happening at my table," and you feel that the out-of-game answer "Talk the the other people at your table" won't help, then the in-game answers "Remove mechanics A, B, and/or C, impose mechanics L, M, and/or N" will not help either.
Tragak's Planar Reconstruction Archive (current active project: Acheron)
Avatar Credit goes to: Chd. Thank you!
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2013-02-19, 06:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Did durkon know?
Well Miko was sort of the extreme of that Templar mentality, she was viciously stupid, whereas Durkon is lovably stupid.
Again, i don't wanna pick on poor Durkon, who is one of my favorite characters, but he *is* the guy who is afraid of trees ;)
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2013-02-19, 06:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
A game is a fictional construct created for the sake of the players, not the other way around. If you have a question "How do I keep X from happening at my table," and you feel that the out-of-game answer "Talk the the other people at your table" won't help, then the in-game answers "Remove mechanics A, B, and/or C, impose mechanics L, M, and/or N" will not help either.
Tragak's Planar Reconstruction Archive (current active project: Acheron)
Avatar Credit goes to: Chd. Thank you!
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2013-02-19, 07:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Did durkon know?
Ummm this is a forum, arent we gonna stubbornly debate this forever? ;)
hehe nobody on the internet has ever conceded a point to me before... now i am paranoid :D
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2013-02-19, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Imagination Land
- Gender
Re: Did durkon know?
Sadly, Durkon's clerical powers don't give him any way of recognizing undead creatures (without going out of his way to prepare and cast the spell detect undead). He is forced to rely on his own knowledge and powers of detection/deduction, which as everybody has already mentioned, are not particularly well-trained.
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2013-02-19, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
Re: Did durkon know?
It is quite offensive to call every member of an entire alignment "stupid". Not every LG person is a zealot--and for that matter, I'd argue that zealotry isn't necessarily stupidity.
Or, more simply: Look at Roy.
Hah, I just noticed V is smirking in that third-to-last panel. He knows what's coming.
As for Durkon, I'd like to think he put some ranks in Knowledge: Religion since that incident with Hilgya (and even after he found out she served Loki they still got along alright until she brought up her marriage). 'Course, I could be wrong.
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2013-02-19, 07:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Did durkon know?
Roy isn't particularly smart at anything other than tactics, fighting, and leadership. His lawful Goodness in many cases prevents him and/or his companions from taking the most expedient path to their goals. If the world is at stake, worrying about the "law" and letting it get in the way of the greater good is indeed very stupid in my opinion.
And Roy is probably the smartest lawful good character I've seen, but he still lets his alignment stop him from doing the intelligent thing many times
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2013-02-19, 07:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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- Imagination Land
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Re: Did durkon know?
However, Roy canonically has a very high Intelligence score.
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2013-02-19, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Did durkon know?
true, roy isnt actually stupid really, its just that his alignment forces him to do stupid things. roy is obviously intelligent, but is limited by his lawfulness and self righteousness
Last edited by pollyanna; 2013-02-19 at 07:37 PM.
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2013-02-19, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
- Gender
Re: Did durkon know?
Alignment doesn't force him to do anything. Caring about the world he lives in is in long term definitely NOT stupid.
And I don't see how other alignments can pass your not-stupid test. You're just claiming that everyone with a firmly set goal is stupid, because he is too stupid to not be able to do anything he wants, he is so stupid that he is limited by the thing he chose! And if he wants to achieve he must do stupid things! Therefore he is stupid!
tl;dr being limited isn't stupid, it's called being limited.
edit: on topic - I think it's the same as Hilgya situation, Durkon just isn't that observant.Last edited by Tev; 2013-02-19 at 07:56 PM.
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2013-02-19, 07:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
Re: Did durkon know?
Name an example of Roy doing something stupid because of his alignment.
Only two arguable examples I can come up with were invading the bandit camp--which wasn't stupid, just risky, and it worked out just fine in the end--and attacking Xykon, who he had defeated before and reasonably figured he could defeat again.
I'd argue that Roys lawfulness has even helped him in certain instances--eg. it helped him make the call not to break out of the EoB jail, which turned out to be a good idea as he got everyone out totally legally and got Ian and Geoff freed(ish).
But we're getting off-topic. Hm.
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2013-02-19, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Did durkon know?
I don't wanna get off topic, and I'm sorry if i derailed anything, but i just have to say that not breaking out of the Empire's jail was not a good call imo. Roy's mission is to kill the lich and stop the gate crisis. by involving himself in other matters, and insisting on doing things lawfully, he has given Tarquin all the cards. The problem with lawful good heroes is that they feel the need to get involved in all sorts of irrelevant situations because they feel the need to oppose all evil, instead of the evil that matters. of course, this is great for the purposes of the narrative (and gettin XP :D) but from a purely logical point of view is flawed and arguably a waste of time
I'm gonna go through all the comics and find some more points to back up my arguments. I think we may have some differences on our interpretations of alignment, but honorable beings can differ, of course :) I just like these kinda debates :)
I'll admit that as far as alignment goes, i favor Chaotic Neutral. Caring about the long term future of the world isn't useful, only what happens in one's own lifetime or to people connected with oneself matters. But i don't claim that everyone with a set goal is stupid, just people without flexibility. Being limited isn't in and of itself stupidity, but ALLOWING oneself to be limited arbitrarily is, imo. Especially for someone smart enough to know better.
again sorry for this long, semi-off topic post. I just find this discussion interesting. probly better for an general alignment debate thread or something.
on topic, i don't believe durkon knew :)Last edited by pollyanna; 2013-02-19 at 09:00 PM.
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2013-02-19, 09:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
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2013-02-19, 10:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2003
- Location
- Philadelphia, PA
- Gender
Re: Did durkon know?
Please steer away from discussions about whether a character (or an entire alignment) is "right" or, as we often refer to it around here, "morally justified." That's an off-limit topic around these parts due to how closely it intersects with personal views on philosophy, religion, and morality. And because it spawns monster 15-page line-by-line quote battles.
So either please get back to the topic of whether or not Durkon knew about Malack and/or what his reaction will be when he finds out, or we'll have to lock the thread. Thanks.Rich Burlew
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2013-02-20, 03:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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2013-02-20, 05:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
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Re: Did durkon know?
Durkon fought against a palm tree and stroke the trees in the wood with lightening. I don't think he could have been hurt by them, yet he considered them a menace. He has some strong preconceptions, and this applies to new people he meets, too. Malak was a likable and kind fellow, so why to doubt him? He didn't even accept the little info of him feeding teammates to a dragon as enough to take him for a villain.
I suppose that it's the same kind of fierce friendship which brought him to laugh when Roy hit the ground.
Well, this Malak part has, at least, given him some part of personality - if I remember well, many complained about his lack of it.Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955