The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

[Jackalope]

Any of the paladin variant from UA work. Only the standard paladin does not.

There are also the nonevil paladin variants in Dragon 310 (though the nonchaotic of course don't work), and the evil ones in 312.

[Morcleon]

Hey Snow! I got that list for you (again)!

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• Finish comments on dips and PrCs.
• Add a Class Skills section.
• Add Sudden Metamagic feats.
• Add Whisper Gnome.
• Add Mindbender PrC.
• Add Vael's stuff (Travel Devotion, Ability Focus, Utterdark Blast healing undead, etc)
• Write a forward for the handbook.
• Feats -> Abberant Dragonmark, Dragonmarks: *Useful.
• Dark Transient also gives greater plane shift, but it's still not enough to bump it up to blue.
• Morpheme Savant should be blue for social focused warlocks, if only for the +(Cha x 2) to Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate.
• Souleater Incarnate goes up to low black if used in a heavily incarnum focused game. Still meh. Also, this needs to be bolded.
• Add Epic Extra Invocation. Goes from red to blue, depending on which invocation you take with it. Useful for meeting prereqs for other epic feats, though.

[super dark33]

Can you tell me what you think about the Acolyte of the skin PC for warlocks?
I always found it usefull but I want to see how really powerfull it is.

[Snowbluff]

Can you tell me what you think about the Acolyte of the skin PC for warlocks?
I always found it usefull but I want to see how really powerfull it is.

Acolyte of the Skin (CA):Well, taken to ten levels, relatively useless. You lose invocations for using, in return for a couple of powers used 1/day. A stun, poison 2/day, summon a 7-8 HD outsider, a mild damaging ability. I don't think any of these are worth losing invocations over.

For similiar flavor, I would suggest Demonbinder (DotU), which will be receiving a review shortly.

[super dark33]

Acolyte of the Skin (CA):Well, taken to ten levels, relatively useless. You lose invocations for using, in return for a couple of powers used 1/day. A stun, poison 2/day, summon a 7-8 HD outsider, a mild damaging ability. I don't think any of these are worth losing invocations over.

For similiar flavor, I would suggest Demonbinder (DotU), which will be receiving a review shortly.

I think you do gain invocations, somthing in the complete arcane about +1 caster level applies to warlock invocations?
Or I'm just reading it wrong?

[Snowbluff]

I think you do gain invocations, somthing in the complete arcane about +1 caster level applies to warlock invocations?
Or I'm just reading it wrong?

You do gain invocations, but at a halved rate, and you will never get a Dark level invocation.

[Jackalope]

Your Flee the Scene description got me looking into more detail. Specifically, you mention SLAs don't have a somatic component, but the Warlock's armor proficiency says:

Because the somatic components required for warlock
invocations are relatively simple...
(all invocations, including eldritch blast, have a somatic component).

So invocations are a no-go when grappled it looks like.

[super dark33]

You do gain invocations, but at a halved rate, and you will never get a Dark level invocation.

Dark invocations are overrated anyway.
most of them aren't worth taking as you pointed yourself.

Also it's Stun ability is targeting anything you can see at medium range.
Fly+ogle= stunned armies.

[Morcleon]

Dark invocations are overrated anyway.
Also most of them aren't worth taking as you pointed yourself.

Yeah, but there are some that really are worth it.

Also, if you're at the point where you're getting dark invocations, there's a good chance you'll be going into epic levels, where you can start picking up the epic warlock feats.

[Snowbluff]

So invocations are a no-go when grappled it looks like.

This was the description when I got the handbook. I haven't changed it, since I am working on some better wording. Flee the Scene's description will need some reworking as well.

Also it's Stun ability is targeting anything you can see at medium range.
Fly+ogle= stunned armies.

Sure, for 1 round if the enemy is worth its salt. Once per day. As a [Mind-Affecting].

[Socratov]

So, I jsut posted this in another thread, but I'd like to nominate Flyby Attack (MM) for the blasterlock. Fell Flight invocation qualifies for this and allows you to make shots while moving. Very useful if you want to flay and stay just out of range. Also very useful if you play warlock gestalt with scout since you can make optimum use of your movement and blasts.

[Snowbluff]

So, I jsut posted this in another thread, but I'd like to nominate Flyby Attack (MM) for the blasterlock. Fell Flight invocation qualifies for this and allows you to make shots while moving. Very useful if you want to flay and stay just out of range. Also very useful if you play warlock gestalt with scout since you can make optimum use of your movement and blasts.

I'll put it in, then. MORCLEON! More stuff for the list!

Thank you, Socratov.

[gooddragon1]

Cleric is also good for inquisition domain = +4 on dispel checks.

Eldritch line is much better than you give it credit for:
-Large creature grapples medium creature and you don't have improved precise shot... eldritch line the top squares it occupies to hit only the large creature.
-Swarms are hard to fight without AOE damage
-Hit multiple opponents
-If aimed right it doesn't risk hitting allies

[Morcleon]

I'll put it in, then. MORCLEON! More stuff for the list!

Thank you, Socratov.

But... but... you said... >.< *is confused*

Spoiler

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• Finish comments on dips and PrCs.
• Add a Class Skills section.
• Add Sudden Metamagic feats.
• Add Whisper Gnome.
• Add Mindbender PrC.
• Add Vael's stuff (Travel Devotion, Ability Focus, Utterdark Blast healing undead, etc)
• Write a forward for the handbook.
• Feats -> Abberant Dragonmark, Dragonmarks: *Useful.
• Dark Transient also gives greater plane shift, but it's still not enough to bump it up to blue.
• Morpheme Savant should be blue for social focused warlocks, if only for the +(Cha x 2) to Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate.
• Souleater Incarnate goes up to low black if used in a heavily incarnum focused game. Still meh. Also, this needs to be bolded.
• Add Epic Extra Invocation. Goes from red to blue, depending on which invocation you take with it. Useful for meeting prereqs for other epic feats, though.
• Add Flyby Attack.

[Snowbluff]

Cleric is also good for inquisition domain = +4 on dispel checks.

The fact that Clerics have domains has been recognized. I'll think about finding the link to the guide to cleric dipping. +4 on Dispel isn't very good for Warlock, however. IIRC, they only get variations of Dispel Magic.

Eldritch line is much better than you give it credit for:
-Large creature grapples medium creature and you don't have improved precise shot... eldritch line the top squares it occupies to hit only the large creature.
-Swarms are hard to fight without AOE damage
-Hit multiple opponents
-If aimed right it doesn't risk hitting allies

It's red relative to the rest of the invocation level. It has it's uses, but at this point you can just UMD something or have someone else handle it.

[gooddragon1]

The fact that Clerics have domains has been recognized. I'll think about finding the link to the guide to cleric dipping. +4 on Dispel isn't very good for Warlock, however. IIRC, they only get variations of Dispel Magic.


It's red relative to the rest of the invocation level. It has it's uses, but at this point you can just UMD something or have someone else handle it.

That's +4 to max dispel check. That means your ranged dispel magic can be useful for longer.

UMD costs gold and may not always work (or requires further investments) and it's always nice to be able to contribute. In addition, you may at some point run into something with ridiculous touch AC, they'd probably also save for half but if they don't have evasion you're still doing damage.

[Snowbluff]

[QUOTE=gooddragon1;14941529]That's +4 to max dispel check. That means your ranged dispel magic can be useful for longer.[quote]That's a lot of investment for a single ability that will not last your characters lifetime. At level 15 you will be at +14 to dispel (you lost a CL to cleric), putting you a CL behind the curve when you mac out the dispel, anyway.

UMD costs gold and may not always work (or requires further investments) and it's always nice to be able to contribute. In addition, you may at some point run into something with ridiculous touch AC, they'd probably also save for half but if they don't have evasion you're still doing damage.

UMD doesn't always work? At level 11, you have a +14 to your best skill before any items or abilities. GP wise, the circumstantial attack isn't really expensive, either. Even if you don't want to use an expendable, pick up an item for the shape.

If they have a good touch AC, use the Invocation that you picked up instead of the wimpy Shape.

[Deepbluediver]

It's red relative to the rest of the invocation level. It has it's uses, but at this point you can just UMD something or have someone else handle it.

It's funny that this is getting more attention right now. Just yesterday I was messing around with a homebrew class-fix for the Warlock (just for some stuff, the class is obviously pretty decent as-is) and I was using your list to go through which of the invocations needed modifying.

I was wondering if some of the lower-rated blast-shape invocation couldn't be helped by lumping them together in a single package.
Make one invocation called "Sculpted Blast" or something like that and it lets you use a line, a cone, maybe even Eldritch Doom and a few others.

I know Handbooks and Homebrew are different animals, but since you are all the warlock experts I figured I'd see if anyone had any thoughts.

[Snowbluff]

Socratov linked the handbook and then posted, so it got bumped.

When I made my fix, I just gave the Warlock's more invocations. Whn you have 24 possible (20, and at 1, 6, 11, and 16 you get an invocation or Meta-SLA), you have more room for shapes.

[Morcleon]

Socratov linked the handbook and then posted, so it got bumped.

When I made my fix, I just gave the Warlock's more invocations. Whn you have 24 possible (20, and at 1, 6, 11, and 16 you get an invocation or Meta-SLA), you have more room for shapes.

Oh right, about your fix. It's listed in your sig as "Warlock HB", and then right next to it is the link to "Warlock Handbook".

You may want to clarify that...

[Snowbluff]

Oh right, about your fix. It's listed in your sig as "Warlock HB", and then right next to it is the link to "Warlock Handbook".

You may want to clarify that...

I need to make an extended sig. I am right on the max character limit right now.

[Thinblade]

Deepblue: When thinking on homebrew fixes for the warlock, I usually do what Snowbluff does: give them more invocations. Without more invocations, every warlock starts looking the same and acting the same in combat, since there are a few choices at each invocation level that are so clearly superior that you have to take them, even if you would prefer to take something more atmospheric.

That said, I think your idea of lumping a number of shapes into a single shape invocation is interesting. I think I'd probably tweak it to make it a bit more like a tactical feat. Maybe something like this:

Sculpted Blast:
Requirements: One blast shape invocation at both least and lesser level, Warlock 8.
Effect: You gain the ability to use all blast shape invocations of a level allowable by your warlock level. When you gain access to a new level of invocations, you automatically gain all the blast shapes of that level. This blast shape replaces your known lesser blast shape. You may exchange your least blast shape for any other least invocation.

That lets you get everything, but not immediately. You would have to wait until the mid game, and there are so many good lesser invocations that taking this would still not be a no-brainer. I would probably restrict the "gain all more powerful shapes" part to pure warlocks as a bit of reward for not PrC'ing out.

[Deadline]

Snowbluff, do you have any thoughts on Blood Magus (Complete Arcane) as a prestige class for a Warlock?

[Socratov]

Snowbluff, do you have any thoughts on Blood Magus (Complete Arcane) as a prestige class for a Warlock?

well, it does work, but the interesting parts are either a 2-lvl dip or a 4-lvl dip for the crafting feats (after lvl 12). For the rest the class on the whole offers 2 lost casterlevels, and abilites a warlock could do without, even though the capstone definately has rule of cool written all over it. The scarification and draught of blood abilites do make a great way of crafting spells you might need.

then there is the question of getting more EB per casterlevel.

[Deepbluediver]

When I made my fix, I just gave the Warlock's more invocations. When you have 24 possible (20, and at 1, 6, 11, and 16 you get an invocation or Meta-SLA), you have more room for shapes.

Deepblue: When thinking on homebrew fixes for the warlock, I usually do what Snowbluff does: give them more invocations.

Thanks for the feedback. Whether I give more invocations or lump some of the weaker ones together, it basically all boils down to the same thing. While I expected it was doubtful, I really just wanted to check that allowing a single invocation to do more than one thing wouldn't leap past the balance bar and into OP territory.

hat said, I think your idea of lumping a number of shapes into a single shape invocation is interesting. I think I'd probably tweak it to make it a bit more like a tactical feat. Maybe something like this:

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Sculpted Blast
Requirements: One blast shape invocation at both least and lesser level, Warlock 8.
Effect: You gain the ability to use all blast shape invocations of a level allowable by your warlock level. When you gain access to a new level of invocations, you automatically gain all the blast shapes of that level. This blast shape replaces your known lesser blast shape. You may exchange your least blast shape for any other least invocation.

That lets you get everything, but not immediately. You would have to wait until the mid game, and there are so many good lesser invocations that taking this would still not be a no-brainer. I would probably restrict the "gain all more powerful shapes" part to pure warlocks as a bit of reward for not PrC'ing out.

Hmm....I do like feats.

I know that Sculpt Spell was a metamagic feat, but there's something about this I don't quite like. I can't put my finger on it exactly though.


Taking your lead on the scaling style, I was thinking of something like this:

Sculpted Blast
Lesser
This blast shape invocation allows you to invoke your Eldritch Blast as a line with range of 60 ft or a 30 ft Cone, dealing your normal Eldritch Blast damage to all creatures in the area. You do not need to make a ranged touch attack when using this shape, although your targets may attempt a reflex save for half-damage.

At Warlock level 11, you can arc you Eldritch Blast around objects, creatures, and other obstacles, negating cover. You can even bend your Eldritch Blast around corners or objects that provide concealment, although you still have a 20/50% chance to miss your target unless you have some other way to locate exactly where they are.

At Warlock level 16, you can invoke you Eldritch Blast to explode in a circle with a radius of 20 ft, similar to a fireball spell (range 60 ft.). You do not need to make a ranged touch attack when using this shape, although your targets may attempt a reflex save for half-damage.



My biggest issue with Eldrtich Doom was not that Warlocks can't be in melee range, but that it had a tendency to hurt your allies as well (plus, flying out of melee range is a good theory, but DMs have a habit of building dungeons filled with tight passageways and small rooms). The intent with this is that you can launch it right at your feet if you want to be ground zero for some reason, or you can aim it a little farther away to hit clusters of enemies.
Question though- are Warlocks normally immune to their own Eldritch Blast damage? Has it ever come up before? The regular Eldritch Doom didn't include the warlock in the effect, I think, but that doesn't really address the issue.

[only1doug]

I put together the following Warlock Homebrew:

Floating Invocation Feat Chain:

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These feats are designed to give the warlock some much needed versatility, by having one Invocation of each grade be changeable (on a daily basis).

Floating Invocation (Least)
Prerequisite: Access to Least Invocations, Invoker Level 3 or Higher, 2 Least Invocations.
Benefit: Choose one of your existing Least Invocations, This is now changeable on a daily basis: once every 24hrs you may change your Floating Invocation to a different Least Invocation. This process takes 1hr and can only be done after getting a good nights sleep. This Feat may only be taken once.

Floating Invocation (Lesser)
Prerequisite: Access to Lesser Invocations, Floating Invocation (Least)
Benefit: Choose one of your existing Lesser Invocations, This is now changeable on a daily basis: once every 24hrs you may change your Floating Invocation to a different Lesser Invocation. This process takes 1hr and can only be done after getting a good nights sleep. You can change any or all of your Floating Invocations during the same time period. This Feat may only be taken once.

Floating Invocation (Greater)
Prerequisite: Access to Greater Invocations, Floating Invocation (Lesser)
Benefit: Choose one of your existing Greater Invocations, This is now changeable on a daily basis: once every 24hrs you may change your Floating Invocation to a different Greater Invocation. This process takes 1hr and can only be done after getting a good nights sleep. You can change any or all of your Floating Invocations during the same time period. This Feat may only be taken once.

Floating Invocation (Dark)
Prerequisite: Access to Dark Invocations, Floating Invocation (Greater)
Benefit: Choose one of your existing Dark Invocations, This is now changeable on a daily basis: once every 24hrs you may change your Floating Invocation to a different Dark Invocation. This process takes 1hr and can only be done after getting a good nights sleep. You can change any or all of your Floating Invocations during the same time period. This Feat may only be taken once.

Enlightened Spirits:

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The biggest problem with this PRC is that it doesn't advance your Invocation Level for warlock invocations if you continue with warlock after leaving this class.

Homebrew Solution: the following line of Text should be added to the Enlightened spirit class:

Enlightened Spirits who return to the warlock class may add their Enlightened Spirit class levels to their Warlock class levels for the purposes of determining the maximum grade of Invocation known.

[Thinblade]

DB: I probably wasn't clear in my write-up, since I was doing it off the cuff. I meant that it was a lesser invocation that was inspired by tactical feats. It takes the slot of an existing lesser invocation, but requires you to also have a specific least invocation as well, which you can then change out.

I like your bend around corners thing. In my mind, the more experienced a warlock gets, the more they should be able to do "trick shots" with their primary attack, since they've been working with it for so long.

You're mistaken about Eldritch Doom, however. It never affects party members. It's not a burst; you designate the targets. So you could use it in the middle of a pike formation against a single goblin, and only the goblin would be hit.

[Deepbluediver]

You're mistaken about Eldritch Doom, however. It never affects party members. It's not a burst; you designate the targets. So you could use it in the middle of a pike formation against a single goblin, and only the goblin would be hit.

My bad, then.

The first time I saw a Warlock in a game, some one else was playing one, and he was using the ability like that (not sure if it was accidental or intentional). I never actually looked up the exact wording myself, even when I tried out a Warlock. Guess I've been doing it wrong all these years.

[Thinblade]

Socratov: The problem with Blood Magus is two-fold:

First, most of the class's abilities most likely don't work with warlock invocations. They specifically say spell, and not spell-like. Since this was in the book that introduced the warlock and other PrC's (ie: Mindbender) mention spell-likes, this probably means that blood magus wasn't meant to work with warlocks.

The first point can be DM hand-waved. The second is baked into the class. It requires two really useless feats (Great Fortitude, and the worst feat in 3e, Toughness), as well as getting killed and brought back, which is really hard/expensive to do at lower level.

What do you get in return? A weaker version of two low-level crafting feats, a few useful and minor abilities (staunch, death knell), and two lost caster levels. It really, really, isn't worth it. If you're that desperate for the crafting feats, just take them, but really, by 12th level you should be crafting more powerful things, if you're crafting at all.

[Kazyan]

I'm playing an epic Glaivelock right now, and I have to say thay Dark Transient is possibly blue. I didn't have to go much out of my way to get it, because its prerequisite invocations are prime picks anyway. It's incredibly useful to be able to go anywhere you want whenever you want--seriously, space is no obstacle anymore--and to not have to worry about speed in the campaign's teleport-blocker zones.