Terrible Star Trek The Original Series Ideas/Episodes; Include also TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT

[russdm]

Been watching TOS and have watched a few episodes like Court Martial, and Taste of Armageddon. Due to details, neither episode feels particularly serious/realistic/believable anymore. In watching, I was wondering, how many episodes in the series have aged poorly to this day?

In Court Martial, we learn that the log of actions taken by Kirk were falsified so he would end up in trouble. At the time, it was treated that computers were never in error.

In Taste of Armageddon, the war between the planets continues on having been changed into a computer conflict with people reporting to be killed. It makes no sense anymore: Why fight a simulated war instead of declaring peace, and why insist on going through the motions of killing your citizens as a result? Are the inhabitants of either planet simply that insane?

Are there other shows with premises that are inexplicable today? I know that Balance of Terror and The Trouble with Tribbles remain good in their re-watchability. Which other episodes can be rewatched without feeling stupid for having accepted the plot idea.

Also opening to this to TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT series as well.

[Malimar]

DS9: "Profit and Lace" has always been awful terrible, but with the greater societal shift away from trans people being a punchline, it's only gotten worse. (Same problem applies to all the British "comedy" where the "joke" was "har har, we're in drag, isn't that hilarious".)

[No brains]

Magicks of Megas-Tu is undoubtedly a STUPID story, but I would be hesitant to call it a bad one. As goofy as playful satan-man and Kirk having a wizard battle are, it's still a hoot to watch. In no small part this is because everyone manages to take this concept totally seriously, as if there is nothing wrong with everything that's happening during the story. I can't call it a 'good sci-fi story', but it is an excellent yarn or weird tale.

[Olinser]

I've always absolutely hated every single episode in the Mirror Universe - in ANY series. The universe makes zero logical sense in any way and characters always behave in absolutely the stupidest possible manner at every turn.

Also any episode that even mentions the Prime Directive, with special mention to Voyager for having Janeway sanctimoniously preach about it at every turn WHILE violating it whenever she felt like it.

[Cikomyr]

In DS9's "Tribunal", O'brien tries resisting arrest while sorrounded by two heavily armed cardassians. They knock him down but otherwise treat him respectfully.

The heavy-handed dictatorial police state have just do whatever necessary to handle people resisting arrest without going over the line. Think about that.

[FreddyNoNose]

I've always absolutely hated every single episode in the Mirror Universe - in ANY series. The universe makes zero logical sense in any way and characters always behave in absolutely the stupidest possible manner at every turn.

Also any episode that even mentions the Prime Directive, with special mention to Voyager for having Janeway sanctimoniously preach about it at every turn WHILE violating it whenever she felt like it.

but the version of you in the mirror universe loves it!

[Pex]

The worst of Star Trek is better than the current movie and online ripoffs.

[JadedDM]

TOS: Turnabout Intruder. "Women can't be starship captains. They're too emotional!!!"

[FreddyNoNose]

The worst of Star Trek is better than the current movie and online ripoffs.

CBS pay to view BS. I actually enjoy The Orville.

[Yora]

Also any episode that even mentions the Prime Directive, with special mention to Voyager for having Janeway sanctimoniously preach about it at every turn WHILE violating it whenever she felt like it.

The prime directive says whatever is needed to create an artificial conflict where there isn't really any.

I also hate all time travel, transporter accidents, and holodeck malfunctions. Especially holodeck malfunctions. They are all completely inconsistent in how stuff works.

[YossarianLives]

TNG's 'First Contact' has a decent idea, but laughably poor dialogue and generally just unbelievable characters.

No, seriously, I laughed for a solid minute when I first heard the line "I've always wanted to make love with an alien."

[AMFV]

Been watching TOS and have watched a few episodes like Court Martial, and Taste of Armageddon. Due to details, neither episode feels particularly serious/realistic/believable anymore. In watching, I was wondering, how many episodes in the series have aged poorly to this day?

In TOS about half of them, in TNG about a quarter, in DS9 about a quarter, Voyager has remained consistent in that it had a lot of mediocre episodes and a handful of really amazing ones

In Court Martial, we learn that the log of actions taken by Kirk were falsified so he would end up in trouble. At the time, it was treated that computers were never in error.

The same way that people assume that security footage isn't altered. Or that records are accurate in modern courts. It happens all the time. A computer forgery is probably extremely unlikely, which is why it's not suspected until later. The same way as forged security footage would extremely unlikely to come up in a modern court of law.

In Taste of Armageddon, the war between the planets continues on having been changed into a computer conflict with people reporting to be killed. It makes no sense anymore: Why fight a simulated war instead of declaring peace, and why insist on going through the motions of killing your citizens as a result? Are the inhabitants of either planet simply that insane?

They explicitly address your concerns. They aren't having a computer war because they want peace and the computer is denying them, they are fighting over resources, a moon as I recall, and mineral rights. They have decided that the computer simulation is more humane and less destructive than actual war would be, which could devastate their infrastructure as well. They're deciding to kill their citizens in a way they view as humane rather than dismembering them with bombs.

[FreddyNoNose]

I also hate all time travel, transporter accidents, and holodeck malfunctions. Especially holodeck malfunctions. They are all completely inconsistent in how stuff works.

Don't get me started!

[Kitten Champion]

In DS9's "Tribunal", O'brien tries resisting arrest while sorrounded by two heavily armed cardassians. They knock him down but otherwise treat him respectfully.

The heavy-handed dictatorial police state have just do whatever necessary to handle people resisting arrest without going over the line. Think about that.

But that's the thing about Cardassians though, they're meticulous sticklers for following their own rules down to the fine details. It's something they pride themselves for, like having strong familial relationships and their capacity for efficiency.

It's that these values prop up a system wherein the appearance of Good Order and the supremacy of the State overshadows truth, justice, and the value of the individual's rights.

Plus, the whole point of the episode was that O'Brien was irrelevant to them. He could have been anybody at all but for circumstances - which pretty much describes all of O'Brien's suffering in Trek - it's the show which mattered. To justify themselves to the universe by wrapping their misdeeds in the seeming unbiased processes of the law, not to send storm troopers in to kick in some teeth.

[Olinser]

Been watching TOS and have watched a few episodes like Court Martial, and Taste of Armageddon. Due to details, neither episode feels particularly serious/realistic/believable anymore. In watching, I was wondering, how many episodes in the series have aged poorly to this day?

In Court Martial, we learn that the log of actions taken by Kirk were falsified so he would end up in trouble. At the time, it was treated that computers were never in error.

In Taste of Armageddon, the war between the planets continues on having been changed into a computer conflict with people reporting to be killed. It makes no sense anymore: Why fight a simulated war instead of declaring peace, and why insist on going through the motions of killing your citizens as a result? Are the inhabitants of either planet simply that insane?

Are there other shows with premises that are inexplicable today? I know that Balance of Terror and The Trouble with Tribbles remain good in their re-watchability. Which other episodes can be rewatched with feeling stupid for having accepted the plot idea.

Also opening to this to TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT series as well.

Planet of Hats had a really hilarious take on Court Martial:

KIRK - Why does my captain's chair only have 3 buttons - Red Alert, Yellow Alert, and Eject Ion Storm Observation Pod?!?!!?

[Metahuman1]

I think SF debris had some really solid Insights on both Court Martial and A Little Taste of Armageddon.





I also think that Turnabout Intruder has become a glorious means of Rejecting the idea that Gene's vision is all that matters to something qualifying as either good Trek or a Betrayal of Trek.

[Olinser]

In DS9's "Tribunal", O'brien tries resisting arrest while sorrounded by two heavily armed cardassians. They knock him down but otherwise treat him respectfully.

The heavy-handed dictatorial police state have just do whatever necessary to handle people resisting arrest without going over the line. Think about that.

Not really.

They'd framed O'Brien and were only doing it to try and force the Federation to completely renounce the Maquis. Presumably the men they sent to actually arrest him had been given explicit instructions to bring him in with no visible injuries - can't embarrass the Federation by broadcasting the trial of somebody that had clearly been beaten/tortured, after all.

As we were shown many other times, Cardassian arrest and interrogation were brutal affairs.

[Metahuman1]

Not really.

They'd framed O'Brien and were only doing it to try and force the Federation to completely renounce the Maquis. Presumably the men they sent to actually arrest him had been given explicit instructions to bring him in with no visible injuries - can't embarrass the Federation by broadcasting the trial of somebody that had clearly been beaten/tortured, after all.

As we were shown many other times, Cardassian arrest and interrogation were brutal affairs.

Further, by that point, it was canonical that they can and frequently as a matter of preference will favor Drugs, humiliation, psychological torture, surgical implants, starvation, things that can at least in theory be covered in enough clothing with little effort.

Actually just sitting there and beating the prisoner, or unnecessary force to take them into custody? That's beneath them. Ineffective. Much better to break there mind once you do have them. Patience is a virtue after all.

[Cikomyr]

TNG's 'First Contact' has a decent idea, but laughably poor dialogue and generally just unbelievable characters.

No, seriously, I laughed for a solid minute when I first heard the line "I've always wanted to make love with an alien."

That was rhe cringiest scene of the episode. You could cut that dialogue and the whole episode would be better.

Still a solid.episode, IMHO

[Pex]

Original series: Spock's Brain, Elaan of Troyius, That Which Survives

TNG: All episodes about Lwaxana Troi or Alexander, A Fistful of Datas, and that Robin Hood one.

Deep Space Nine: I don't remember 99% of the episodes. I liked the show when I watched it but have no great desire to rewatch.

Voyager: The first season, any episode where Seven explores her humanity, and all episodes that centered on the Doctor except the one where his memory kept being erased because he malfunctions when he learns a decision costs a patient's life. That one was a good use of the character.

Enterprise: Stopped watching after first three episodes. I was not interested in Porn Trek. The beginning of the end of tasteful Star Trek, culminating in the new movies and Discovery.

[comicshorse]

'Dear Doctor' from Enterprise is a terrible episode. ( Phlox decides not to stop a intelligent species become extinct because of a theory that has already been shown to be incorrect.) However I don't think it has become any more terrible over the years

[russdm]

I happen to like the Cardies. They got those nice outfits, and they get fleshed out as practical workable enemies. Until the Dominion shows up. They could have been good recurring enemies in TNG, would have worked well in that role. They were under utilized when more really good storylines could have been made, especially of the Bajor deal.

Also like Romulans and Klingons, and the Gorn. Think that those races and their relationship to the Federation should have been more explored as a basic thing in Trek. Would have offered considerable amount of story potential to put onscreen and would have allowed for a nice number of bottle episodes.

I mean TNG also really didn't much with the Romulans, and didn't do that much more with the Klingons. After a point, it looked like the writers/producers in TNG were losing steam or focus

[Berserk Mecha]

'Code of Honor' and 'Angel One', both from TNG, are probably the most offensive episodes of Star Trek ever. In short, Code of Honor is the episode where they go to the planet of the black people and Angel One is the episode where they go to the planet of the feminazis.

To elaborate, Code of Honor is about the crew visiting a planet to obtain a cure to a deadly plague. And the planet's natives are portrayed by Africans. Well, that's not bad in and of itself. There've been plenty of planets full of nothing but white people before. Turnabout is fair play, right? But then the natives are shown to be very primitive in their ways and their leader kidnaps Lt. Yar as a way to assert himself and because he thinks that she's hot. The writers never knew what to do with Tasha Yar and this episode was particularly humiliating to her character. Is it any wonder that Denise Crosby left the show before the first season was through?

In Angel One, the crew visits a planet governed by a matriarchy that suppresses the rights of the males on their planet. The episode is just confused in its message and seems to be trying to say that we should be accepting of the ways of other people, even if they seem mean to us. But part of the plot involves a renegade group of people who practice what we might think of as more 'traditional' gender roles and being persecuted by the evil matriarchs. It's trying to be feminism and failing spectacularly.

And for anyone who is interested, the website Sci-Fi Debris has a lot of in depth analysis of a huge chunk of Star Trek. You can find it here.

[Rodin]

I'll nominate "Justice" from TNG for having a truly stupid plot contrivance.

The Enterprise sends down a party to meet with the natives of a newly discovered planet. This group, for inexplicable reasons, contains Wesley Crusher. This is despite not being a trained ambassador, or indeed a trained anything. The inevitable happens and Wesley finds himself under a death sentence. The Enterprise can't beam him out because a godlike being suddenly interferes and stops them. Cue drama.

The level of stupid required from everyone involved to even begin the plot is staggering.

[Yora]

That was my first thought at unbelievably dumb episodes. But then I decided to include it under every episode about the prime directive.

The dumbest part about that episode: His capital offense punishable by death was stepping on the lawn.

[Prime32]

No mention of "Threshold", the episode of Voyager where travelling too fast causes people to turn into iguanas?

[Olinser]

'Code of Honor' and 'Angel One', both from TNG, are probably the most offensive episodes of Star Trek ever. In short, Code of Honor is the episode where they go to the planet of the black people and Angel One is the episode where they go to the planet of the feminazis.

To elaborate, Code of Honor is about the crew visiting a planet to obtain a cure to a deadly plague. And the planet's natives are portrayed by Africans. Well, that's not bad in and of itself. There've been plenty of planets full of nothing but white people before. Turnabout is fair play, right? But then the natives are shown to be very primitive in their ways and their leader kidnaps Lt. Yar as a way to assert himself and because he thinks that she's hot. The writers never knew what to do with Tasha Yar and this episode was particularly humiliating to her character. Is it any wonder that Denise Crosby left the show before the first season was through?

In Angel One, the crew visits a planet governed by a matriarchy that suppresses the rights of the males on their planet. The episode is just confused in its message and seems to be trying to say that we should be accepting of the ways of other people, even if they seem mean to us. But part of the plot involves a renegade group of people who practice what we might think of as more 'traditional' gender roles and being persecuted by the evil matriarchs. It's trying to be feminism and failing spectacularly.

And for anyone who is interested, the website Sci-Fi Debris has a lot of in depth analysis of a huge chunk of Star Trek. You can find it here.

You forgot to mention that AFTER they kidnapped Yar, the only reason they didn't just take her back was *drumroll* the freaking Prime Directive.

So it's NOT a violation of the Prime Directive to communicate directly with a planet to negotiate for the cure to space plague.

It's NOT a violation of the Prime Directive to bring them on board your highly advanced starship.

Yet magically it's a violation of the Prime Directive to react when they forcibly kidnap one of your people?

That was just face-palmingly bad.

[tonberrian]

No mention of "Threshold", the episode of Voyager where travelling too fast causes people to turn into iguanas?

I'm pretty sure that's just as bad today as it was when it was aired. I thought this thread was more about episodes that aged badly.

[Kitten Champion]

Honestly, for very dated Trek, the writing of Women throughout TOS to season two of TNG is pretty notable for its varying degrees of fetishization, blanket immaturity, and stupidity. Just, so much falling into hysterics at the drop of a hat, shallow self-involvement, cattiness, and turning into sexual putty for the oft controlling male characters - even in better TOS episodes it can be pretty cringe-worthy.

On a different note, pretty much every episode with a god-like alien or a counter-Earth (Like Gangster planet, or Nazi world, or the Neanderthal-ized America from Omega Glory) at this point, just because of how deeply overdone it was that you see how creatively barren it is. It makes a lot of Trek world-building and treating the world seriously feel tremendously silly with all the a-hole god-heads and Earth-but-for-Xs floating about.

I give the Q episodes something of a pass because John De Lancie eventually provided something beyond "they are so beyond us" and became an actual character rather than just a lazy plot device. Same with the Prophets - though they too had writing issues particularly moving into DS9's last season - mostly because they provided a fascinating dimension for the Bajorans and Trek as a whole to have a religion which can't be easily shrugged off as the superstitious mumbo-jumbo of a less-developed civilization that would grow out of it like a childhood sweater, instead it was a fundamental aspect of the civilization that glibly dismissing would prove folly for both practical and diplomatic reasons.

[Olinser]

Honestly, for very dated Trek, the writing of Women throughout TOS to season two of TNG is pretty notable for its varying degrees of fetishization, blanket immaturity, and stupidity. Just, so much falling into hysterics at the drop of a hat, shallow self-involvement, cattiness, and turning into sexual putty for the oft controlling male characters - even in better TOS episodes it can be pretty cringe-worthy.

On a different note, pretty much every episode with a god-like alien or a counter-Earth (Like Gangster planet, or Nazi world, or the Neanderthal-ized America from Omega Glory) at this point, just because of how deeply overdone it was that you see how creatively barren it is. It makes a lot of Trek world-building and treating the world seriously feel tremendously silly with all the a-hole god-heads and Earth-but-for-Xs floating about.

I give the Q episodes something of a pass because John De Lancie eventually provided something beyond "they are so beyond us" and became an actual character rather than just a lazy plot device. Same with the Prophets - though they too had writing issues particularly moving into DS9's last season - mostly because they provided a fascinating dimension for the Bajorans and Trek as a whole to have a religion which can't be easily shrugged off as the superstitious mumbo-jumbo of a less-developed civilization that would grow out of it like a childhood sweater, instead it was a fundamental aspect of the civilization that glibly dismissing would prove folly for both practical and diplomatic reasons.

I actually enjoy most Q episodes (a couple are REALLY bad though - especially the Voyager ones).

The difference between Q and other god-like aliens is simple - most of them try to act like they're better than humans and they just don't understand their genius and power.

Q is totally upfront about the fact that he's a gigantic troll and everything he does is for his own amusement.