The Culture Explores 40K III: Just As Planned

[jseah]

I would also expect that there is an Astartes Relic Bolter, in the most holy vaults of some Battle Barge or Fortress-Monastary, which despite being an otherwise normal Bolter, can pierce any protective energy field, even when firing normal bolter shells. It'd be fairly simple for The Culture to just displace this thing out of the vault, test it on thousands of different sorts of energy fields, and find out that yes, it can pierce any sort of energy field, even though it by all rights shouldn't be able to, before putting the thing back...

They haven't gotten that intrusive yet. As far as they know, the Eldar have pointed them at something that -maybe- has an effect.

Also, does anyone mind if I make the True Faith thing a warp effect? It could just be a Warp Effect of a very special variety (ie. it operates via patterns that do not normally exist and that repel ALL other warp patterns, which explains their "is-not-warp-effect-to-warp-scanners" and their lethality to daemons). Then they could have arbitary effects.


There is also a more specific explanation I have been thinking about. True Faith is a warp effect that can partially shunt things into the warp. This makes a pattern of the object of Faith in the warp (as in, its not the pattern of an atom, the atom is the pattern). Since this is almost certainly a pattern that doesn't exist, True Faith is actually registering a "new" pattern in the Warp and all the "new" patterns do is have a form of warp dampening effect. Additionally, being a foreign warp effect, attacking daemons with them is highly lethal; normal weapons only attack the manifestation of their daemon patterns in the real, True Faith items being an actual warp pattern themselves attack the daemon directly (this is similar to the difference between using a psyker lightning bolt and the destruction ritual thingy on a Daemon)

This explanation means that True Faith can be used by anyone Rho level and above (aka. non-blanks and non-Tau) but gets stronger the stronger a psyker the person is. Furthermore, being a warp pattern and a physical object, True Faith items can have weird effects when interacting with the real, like resisting forces that it ought not to (armour/shield piercing, damage resistance) or manipulating reality in subtle ways around it (uber luck).

[Tiki Snakes]

I always thought the whole point of true faith was that it was almost certainly the direct intervention of the God Emperor.

[Gavinfoxx]

I always thought the whole point of true faith was that it was almost certainly the direct intervention of the God Emperor.

Agreed... his stuff happens because he's a creature in the Warp, but the energy he uses to accomplish these things is damn near impossible to notice unless he wants it to be noticed, and it isn't really sensed by any of the faction's technology, nor by psykers, though they can tell when someone has an iron wall of faith or such... though presumably some holy people can tell a blessed object from a fake by instinct. Now, he might use the Warp to do this, but I don't think null warp areas or Pariahs or anything like that would prevent faith things from doing their thing..

In other words, it breaks most of the patterns of warp stuff that has been set by other methods. Not to say it doesn't have patterns, but that the assumptions between this flavor of warp energy (which it could be, plausibly) and every other flavor ever are profoundly different.

Now, the mechanism by which the Emperor (or whatever) interacts with reality might be something KINDA like what you mentioned... but I would definitely not limit it to gain such an intercession! It is getting the intercession of an entity that follows a different set of rules. And maybe only Alpha+ psykers can make the leap from standard psyker stuff to sponsoring miracles, and only then if they Ascend in a particular way to become just warp energy (which, again, has only happened once)...?

And it's possible that something with sufficient data could backtrace how the Emperor is permanently blessing items and such. Though producing the energy that does it -- which is different than normal psyker energy -- would be perhaps impossible...

[jseah]

Gah, the forum ate my completed post. T_T I wrote 2 weeks of the orks, darn it.

part 10.5 IoM - Finale

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We have confirmed the minor effect on the Sororitas from the artifact. This effect does not appear to apply to the normal pilgrims that visit the planet even if they also perform the same 'blessing' ritual.

Sororitas artifacts are being re-analyzed and their effects on the Sororitas will be surveyed. These do not display warp effects and there could be another Outside Context Problem lurking out there. Information is paramount to determining if this will be a threat.

part 10.5 Orks

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Week 1
Most of the organic intelligences that have displayed assimilation characteristics (one of which is a notable non-human) have submitted a joint request to resume their duties on the ground. I am of the opinion that we must write them off as fully assimilated into ork society.

Now only a few Contact citizens and the inorganic drones are remaining as crew on the ship. As I am of the opinion that the orks are not a HS, I will not be taking further action against them, instead I will merely observe the effect of our contamination of their society.

More to the point, I am unsure of the ex-SC agent's loyalties but he still appears to be friendly to the Culture in general. Even though he is no longer under instruction as an SC agent, he occasionally offers us examples of orkish warp technology. We have also noted his moderating effect on ork society, making them more organized than the other clans we have observed.

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An IoM trader misjumped into the system today. While he left quickly, the significant ork presence here has not gone unnoticed. We should watch for any IoM responses and consider our options carefully, this is a unique situation and it would be a shame to lose it.

[Gavinfoxx]

Gah, the forum ate my completed post. T_T I wrote 2 weeks of the orks, darn it.

Why not write them in word, Notepad++, or in email which automatically saves drafts??

[Gavinfoxx]

So, uh, when is the Ex-SC Warboss going to send The Culture a report? Are you going to actually write up the report (I kinda wanna see ya do orkspeak...), hahaha?

[jseah]

part 10.5 Orks

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Week 2
IoM orders have gone out even before the trader has arrived at his next destination. The Astropathic network itself is organizing a major response force to the Orks and we are unable to deflect it without major intereference that will undoubtedly affect our very useful arrangement with the IoM Inquisition.
It appears that the IoM have adapted to our surveillance capabilities surprisingly quickly.

We have informed the Orks on the world of this matter and advised them to move to a different planet, even offering transportation assistance. Unexpectedly, the Orks instead appear to be preparing for battle.

The impact of the ex-SC agent acting as warboss is very large. This ork group is considerably more organized and unlike every other ork group, appears to be preparing for a space battle. Construction of starships appears to be increasing and the slowly growing fleet is actually conducting wargames. The training exercises and stricter organization has never been before seen in any other clan.

More worryingly, electronic warfare of significant strength and sophistication has been detected; furthermore, the same computer intrusion device has been re-worked into a short range ship-to-ship device. Copies of these devices have been provided to us by the SC agent and they depend heavily on warp effects.

Add the cunning and leadership of an SC agent acting as warboss (and part time engineer) to the production capacity of the Orks and you have one very scary waagh coming.

The Culture have decided to sit this one out.

I can try to write from the ex-SC agent's POV for the battle on the part, I guess. Don't expect too much though.

[Gavinfoxx]

Hahahaha... and the SC guy likes fighting. Heh, of course he defected to the Ork side. He thinks fighting with relatively close equivalency and strange new things and tricks and methods of cunning to understand has to be the most fun ever!

Whether or not he will be thinking in Orkspeak... Orks use loanwords from several languages (mostly Low Gothic), but they tend to mangle it mostly (their mouths are different, and those tusks!), and use their own grammar...

[jseah]

There is also that this organization level would be regarded as pretty much non-existant for the Culture or Tau, and would be low for the IoM. But the Orks? Practically any organization is more than they already had.

Orks doing training exercises? (dressed up as a wargame. With live rounds)

[Gavinfoxx]

He's going to have a problem with Orks destroying their allies' stuff in their enthusiasm to wargame... Now, if he's ready for it and is prepared to manage it (and he should definitely expect it and have a strategy for dealing with it, cause he should have an understanding of the ork psyche by now), it might not be that big of a problem! I have no idea what such a strategy would be, and what way it might be effective, though...

[jseah]

This is why he has developed an Orky version of EW and an inter-ship electronic hacking system (a sort of very crude effector set to just shut down any electronic device its pointed at, he could do more with it but the Orks won't be able to follow instructions).
It reduces losses by making ork ships harder to target and gives them a non-lethal weapon.

He also limits the number of wargames based on the ship production in order to have a certain target fleet size. After all, all the top level commanders are Orky-fied Culture ex-agents.

[jseah]

part 10.5 Orks

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Week 3
Transmission from SC agent Muller to Large Sticks Speaks Softly
---Original in Ork dialect---
Teh Defenz will be successful. Big Boss need no worry! These hummies will make for good head-cracking practice before da Spikies. Teh Boyz are big and strong becoz of ur smarts, we fightin' and we winning!

Why you no kill da Spikies? You afraid of them right? You want them to stop do things right? Then stop them! Fight them! But you not good fighting. Since you no fight, your boyz will fight for you! Watch teh hummies come and see us strong, then you will know we are your power to crush da Chaos.

---Translation in Marain---
The defence will be successful. *unknown person* does not need to worry! These humans will be good fighting practice before *unknown target of anger*. The Orks are big and strong because of your intelligence, we fight and we win!

Why are you not killing *unknown target of anger* (tl note: possible reference to Chaos?)? You are afraid of them? You want to stop them from doing things? Then stop them! Fight them! But you are not good at fighting (alternate tl: But you are not good to fight). Since you will not fight, your Orks will fight for you! (tl note: this part makes no sense but that's how it translates) Watch the humans come and see how strong we are, then you will know that we are your power to crush Chaos.

---Transmission from Ork mid-boss--- OOC: Gavinfoxx's version
"Ey youz'! I's recordin' dis 'ere message, cause da Boss sez wez Orks gotta talk to Da Udda Kulture wot he's from. He sez to tell use dat weze gettin smartah dan odda orks, and wez got the snazziest snazzguns tanks ta you guyz, and wez gonna stomp dese 'ere humies fer practice, and den wez gonna stomp da Spiky boyz. 'E sez dat youz from da Udda Kulture have shootas wit da most dakka, but youz not good at fightin, koz youz all like da Panzies. Well we'z ORKS, and we'z made fer fightin' an' winnin', and wit' your shootas, wez gonna stomp dem Spiky boyz flat! WAAAAAGH!"

---Translation---
"Hey you! I'm recording this message because the Boss says we Orks have to talk to the Culture where he's from. He says to tell you that we're getting smarter than other Orks, and we got the best guns thanks to you guys, and we will kill these humans here for practice, and then we will kill the *unknown* (literal: boys with spikes). He says that you from the Culture have weapons with the most *unknown* (literal: ammunition/ordnance), but you are not good at fighting, because you all are panzies. (tl note: unclear, tone does not appear to be an insult) Well, we're Orks and we're made for fighting and winning, and with your guns, we're going to kill the *unknown* (literal: boys with spikes)!"

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We surmise that the SC agent seems to be unhappy at our inaction against Chaos. Our best interpretation of the message indicates a certain willingness to use direct action on our behalf and perhaps that was what caused the massed assimilation, encouraged by prolonged exposure to the warp field of the Orks.

We are in the process of determining if there are other citizens who also feel that way. The idea has merit but carries its own risks that were deemed to be too great at the time we declared war. Now that we understand more about the Warp, it may be possible to reconsider this stance.

Amusingly, it appears that the SC agent, in attempting to use more Ork-like speech patterns has managed to mangle it rather badly. Or perhaps failed to mangle his sentences enough.

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An IoM scout force has arrived in the system. With incredibly bad luck, the Orks were conducting a training mission (with live ammunition) at the same edge of the system. The Ork ships charged to point blank range, demonstrating the effectiveness of the new EW and computer intrusion devices.
The computer intrusion devices appear to double as point defense, scrambling torpedo guidance systems in a small arc of fire with a short cycle time. Combined with the new EW and the Ork base point defence, the wall formation of the Ork ships combines their defense arcs and firing times to create an anti-torpedo defence that is virtually unpenetrable from the front.

The six IoM ships scored a combined total of ten hits on the Ork ships, damaging one, before four of them had their shields blasted down and the ships forcibly shut down as the Ork vessels disabled their systems then closed for boarding actions. The other two IoM ships managed to warp out only after receiving significant damage.

The crew of the four captured IoM ships, when it was clear that the Orks had no intention of sparing them, I displaced off their ships into a holding station on the planet surface. They were then transferred to a purpose built habitat on the airless moon. I await further advice as to how to proceed with them.

Sorry, after the start, I decided not to write in Ork. It takes me too long to do, poorly.

Proposed Culture Anti-Chaos warfare division

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- Mandate: Created specifically to attack and destroy all instances of Chaos throughout realspace

- Restrictions: This military arm will not engage in combat with any other race other than Chaos; no strategic action is to be taken, this military will be a purely tactical affair. Bombardment of planets will require a direct order from a Mind.

- Technology: With the larger aim to prevent technology transfer to Chaos, we will restrict the technology available to the military arm to merely high quality IoM technology. With the exception being any device or technology that restricts or interferes with the operation in the Warp or is expected to be a useful defense against warp effects.

- Ship Design: Alternative ship designs and tactics will be developed to counter the Chaos's proficiency in boarding. No ship will have external mounted electronics apart from targeting sensors. Intership communication will be provided by IoM design systems that demonstrate increased resistance to scrap-code

- Strategic capability: Strategic movements and coordination will be conducted by Culture equiv-tech ships. These ships will not have independent inter-system movement. Strategic fleet support will be provided by Culture factory ships purpose built for this task, those ships will operate along a role similar to a specialized ROU and will be equiv-tech

- Intelligence & Citizens: An instinctual combat/engineer system will be developed and deployed to operate the ships and do grunt work, similar to the servitor but more efficient and without moral objections. Tactical capability will be provided by organic Culture volunteers, mercenaries and any native volunteer who passes a tactical proficiency test

- Foreign Relations: The Culture will maintain overall control of this arm and the restrictions should be sufficient to render this a non-issue

- Fleet Structure: 1 Culture Factory Ship, 5-10 Fleet Transport Carriers, 30-50 taskforce command craft, 100-200 frontline combat ships

Basically, a Culture attempt to reduce chances of losing anything important to Chaos by fighting on the same level as them. Too many close brushes with scrapcode and strange warp effects has the Culture thinking about creating a disposable response force. (there will be more than one fleet obviously, the plan involves scattering them all over the place)

If it comes to trading ship for ship, the Culture can afford to do that endlessly. The ships don't even have an interstellar capability so taking them over is more or less useless, they can be outfitted with self-destructs galore and the more risky warp-null tech can be tested in the best way possible, by using it on the frontline.

Do you think the Culture might be able to hire mercs who will be willing to take a command role? (since they are applying a truly heretical level of automation, basically everything except the bridge)
What exactly do mercs want in pay anyway?
And mercs probably don't have any objection to spending most of their time sitting around waiting for something to happen right? (because being a response fleet is honestly going to be mostly very boring)

[jseah]

Ship design cluster:
Automaton - Minimal armour, minimal structure. The components are placed far closer together with no access paths built into the ship. This prevents maintenance unless in a dry dock.

The Skeleton - No armour, minimal structure. The ship is mere collection of components structurally anchored to a torch drive. It relies completely on shields for protection and has no internal atmosphere or accessways apart from the command section. No maintenance possible on the ship unless in dry dock.

The Swarm - No armour, no structure. The ship is a collection of components tethered to the main drive via high strength cables (or forcefields if the tech is permitted), positioned by individual minidrives and contained inside a large shield bubble. Components can be moved and aimed in all directions with ease, even exchanged between ships mid battle. Everything is maintained separately in dry dock. Command component has a personal shield and armour.

The Mobile Gun - A very large scale gun and the requisite mini-engine to move it at fleet speed. Shields and armour optional.

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Obviously these are all highly short on protection and in a firefight, they wouldn't stand up to any IoM ship of equivalent class but they will be far lighter and more maneuverable. Aka. glass cannons.

Besides, the Culture plans on throwing them at the enemy like confetti, quantity is a quality all of its own. One doesn't need to be efficient when you are as deeply post-singularity as they are and the enemy isn't.

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Non-combatants / Special:
Factory Ship
10 million cubic kilometers volume (1000x100x100); mobile dry dock, materials reprocessor, gridfire-based manufacturing

Fleet Transport Carrier
1 million cubic kilometers volume (100x100x100); large empty volumes for docking capital ships for interstellar transport

Fleet Tactical Carrier
1 hundred thousand cubic kilometers volume (10x100x100); heavy docking clamps for withstanding high accelerations, used to catapult lower tech ships into battle by accelerating them to a high speed they normally could not efficiently achieve
Travels with flat face forward for larger launch area.

Mobile Missile Factory/Base
A high-tech ship that assimilates asteroids at the edge of the system and converts them into clusters of ultra-long range low-tech missiles for attack craft use or for direct launch at the enemy.

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So basically, mini-sized Death Stars... but mostly hollow.

[jseah]

Unorthodox strategies:
Ork Waagh
- Enough said
- If the Culture agreed to (and do) provide some better shootas and ask the orks to beat up some Chaos for them, would the Culture even need to watch them do it?

System Mining
- Used only on uninhabited systems to deny use as a base
- High tech, highly capable, antimatter rocket missiles are built in significant numbers by dropping a purpose-built nanobot swarm into a system with instructions to reprocess 10% of asteroids and non-planetary bodies (as well as 100% of all highly-metallic bodies) into captor mines before self-destructing
- The mines are placed into orbits around all objects of interest on synchronized orbits to prevent mines triggering themselves
- Any incoming warp signature precipitates a scan for warp effects, detection of a warp effect causes the captor mines in range to launch at the target
- Any metallic bodies approaching within arming range causes the mine to launch at the target
- High tech Warp scanners and telescopic nets are seeded throughout the system. The net self-destructs on approach by any object (they are seeded on orbits that avoids any approach by natural objects), but not before locking in the offending object as a target for the closest missiles

[Gavinfoxx]

FYI, I would say that if their culture 'boss' is acting Orky than he must be unafraid and aggressive and of course he's able to fight dem spiky boyz, cause he's acting like a proppa ork. So the Orkish viewpoint is that he should just take leadership of as much of The Culture as possible and lead them in a proppa waagh.

[jseah]

He does retain loyalties though, and unlike a 'normal' ork, the SC agent hasn't become any dumber and knows he can't win attempting to take the Culture on.

He's just taking a more Ork-like view of their situation:
It's simple really, the enemy of the Culture is Chaos. Then just attack and keep attacking until they win, there is nothing else to waffle on about. There is a problem, it can be solved with enough firepower, so...?


Its pretty much something that would be considered highly deviant in Culture society. My impression from Player of Games' description of the Azad game was that the Culture tend to be defensive and very conservative, aiming to minimize their own losses. Aggression without regard for losses is not something the Culture do unless forced to.

The kind of attitude the SC agent here holds might be something you'd expect out of an SC agent and the way the Culture have been acting so far has been grating on him.

[Gavinfoxx]

Yea... I don't think you have the feel for Ork language... it's a bit of Cockney slang (okay, mostly Cockney), with a bit of it's own thing...

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ork_Quotes

Read some of that, to get a feel...

[Selrahc]

Yeah. You wrote them like lolcats. Orks aren't lolcats.

[Gavinfoxx]

Also, part of the reason of all of the extra mass of armor and such is that it helps protect against mutations from the radiation of space... Imperial ships have endemic problems with mutation; all of them basically have a subhuman mutant underclass in the underdecks, leeching off of the life support...

Further, if you want to be REALLY good at extreme range, you'll probably need Tau style torpedoes, which can change direction and re-target like the smaller missiles (every species has guided missiles; few have guided torpedoes!) can...

[Gavinfoxx]

Maybe:

"Ey youz'! I's recordin' dis 'ere message, cause da Boss sez wez Orks gotta talk to Da Udda Kulture wot he's from. He sez to tell use dat weze gettin smartah dan odda orks, and wez got the snazziest snazzguns tanks ta you guyz, and wez gonna stomp dese 'ere humies fer practice, and den wez gonna stomp da Spiky boyz. 'E sez dat youz from da Udda Kulture have shootas wit da most dakka, but youz not good at fightin, koz youz all like da Panzies. Well we'z ORKS, and we'z made fer fightin' an' winnin', and wit' your shootas, wez gonna stomp dem Spiky boyz flat! WAAAAAGH!"


Anyone else wanna take a shot at getting that to be more correct?

[Forrestfire]

Maybe:

"Ey youz'! I's recordin' dis 'ere message, cause da Boss sez wez Orks gotta talk to Da Udda Kulture wot he's from. He sez to tell use dat weze gettin smartah dan odda orks, and wez got the snazziest snazzguns thanks ta you guyz, and wez gonna stomp dese 'ere humies fer practice, and den wez gonna stomp da Spiky boyz. 'E sez dat youz from da Udda Kulture have shootas wit da most dakka, but youz not good at fightin, koz youz all like da Panzies. Well we're ORKS, and we'z made fer fightin' an' winnin', and wit' your shootas, wez stomp dem Spiky boyz flat! WAAAAAGH!"


Anyone else wanna take a shot at getting that to be more correct?

I think that's perfect XD

[jseah]

Lol, I don't think I could write like that. >.>

Maybe I ought to have you translate passages into Ork. =D

EDIT: I added your version to the main post.

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RE ship design:
With servitor-like AIs running most of the ships, the ships are built precisely to be unlivable. Unlike every other races' ships, Culture ones aren't affected in operation if there isn't a crew (except for command, which takes sentience and intelligence engineering isn't something you want to accidentally hand over to Chaos). Basically, only the bridge will be radiation shielded.

The idea is precisely to make ships that work half-decently together in large swarms but individually have cripplingly bad weaknesses to make them unattractive to Chaos. Like not having interstellar capability.

It's not like the ships won't have more shields and weapons than every other ship in existence. They are built along the lines of a glass cannon. Cheap in mass terms (the only cost that really matters), hits just as hard.

[Gavinfoxx]

You forgot to change the translation, I think... change the basic post, change the translation! ;)

[The Glyphstone]

Chaos would still try to capture/loot these swarm-ships if possible, for the technological bounty they represent even if the ships themselves can't be repurposed. Obliterators able to morph Effectors would be terrifying.

[jseah]

The ships aren't built with anything beyond current IoM tech. Even the automation is pretty much equivalent to a servitor plugged into a gun.

[Gavinfoxx]

I think you overestimate how good at being long range shooty and combining fire and, you know, aiming, that IoM tech is... It's pretty much done with lots of people doing things manually, and full-servitor crews, even with best quality servitors, have problems. You'd really have to go with 'picking tiny bits of the best of the best' or go to 'archeotech' or 'tau automation methods' to get, uh, really good automated ships that can actually aim well from afar and combine fire and such. It'd certainly be possible, yes, but only if you choose the best options from everyone, which means it'd essentially be a major tech upgrade, even though that's just 'all the best stuff in one place and used in a way no one expects'.

And you're also overestimating their Sensor capability as well! You'd certainly have to go for best of the best sensors and ship-to-ship networking and aiming and data processing capability (again, Tau ships can do some of that stuffs, and it's plausible that some archeotech ships can as well) to get them to be able to fire together and aim together and such in a meaningful way...

[Gavinfoxx]

Regardless Jseah, I'll just be happy when you edit the 'translation' to fit what was said. Try and get that up before the next update, please? ;)

[The Glyphstone]

So the Culture is just trying to Zerg rush Chaos then, by manufacturing crappy swarm-ships in bulk faster than they can be killed?

[jseah]

It isn't long range shooty stuff or fancy maneuvers. The kind of battle the Culture plans to fight with these ships is to have sheer numerical superiority. The ships will rush in, aiming to deal as much damage is possible and screw the losses. Tactical command and control can be provided by taskforce command ships (ie. the ones with actual crew) who don't engage.

So the Culture is just trying to Zerg rush Chaos then, by manufacturing crappy swarm-ships in bulk faster than they can be killed?

Pretty much yes. The aim is to have enough ships (and with the tactical carrier to boost) just surround and shoot enemy ships at just outside boarding range.

Taking 2:1 or even worse losses is perfectly fine. The Culture can easily sweep up and reprocess the wreckage afterwards. A single factory ship would outproduce a Forge World by a ridiculous margin, maybe even outproduce an entire sector. (it's considerably bigger than a GSV, but far less capable since its specialized to manufacture crappy ships in huge numbers)

[jseah]

I think I will explain the presence of two messages like this:
The original is the SC agent himself, attempting to talk like an Ork (and failing).

Gavinfoxx's version is a message actually recorded by an Ork.

Sorry, I couldn't think of a way to make translation quirks. I had written the original message with that mind.