OotS as opposite alignments

[martianmister]

How is this the opposite of Haley?

She is Chaotic Evil-ish.

[WoLong]

How is this the opposite of Haley?

As I've said over and over, this is not supposed to be EVIL OPPOSITES like the linear guild, it's Haley with her alignment flipped. And since her alignment is already neutralish, she is obviously not all that different.

[SowZ]

As I've said over and over, this is not supposed to be EVIL OPPOSITES like the linear guild, it's Haley with her alignment flipped. And since her alignment is already neutralish, she is obviously not all that different.

Yeah, but that description perfectly fits Haley as is, although it is only focusing on the negative aspects of her personality.

[Kish]

Oh, I thought it was meant to be flipped.

That is, though WoLong can clarify, my impression was that WoLong would describe the official Haley thus:

While Haley has general compassion and believes in ideals such as robbing the rich to feed the poor, she often takes advantage of those close to her, such as her adventuring party. She steals from the rich by strong preference (though she has been known to rob poor-ish pickpockets who were attempting to rob her group members), is fairly ready to kill whenever she finds it justified, but it feeds her terrible self-esteem problem when she does kill, no matter how much her victim deserved it. She is ultimately far more willing to sacrifice herself than her code of ethics says she should be. As a result, her funds seesaw wildly; though she is currently on an up-swing after robbing her former Guild, shortly before that she went nearly broke funding a resistance movement in occupied Azure City (known to the occupiers as "Gobbotopia").

I should note that I don't agree with

Evil Elan may still possess a love of the dramatic, but as a bard he would not be able to inflict pain and take what he wants as well as a fighter.

Bards are not lacking in power, though Official-Elan isn't interested in maximizing the power of his class. If Elan was Chaotic Evil and cared about inflicting pain and taking what he wants, he's more likely to follow one of the Internet's bardic optimization templates--like Thog with his two-level fighter dip--than become a pure thug. I could see the described-personality Evil Elan as a thoroughly munchkined bard/Sublime Chord (likely one who followed a template to the letter because of lacking the brains to figure out how to be as powerful as he wanted to be himself), but I don't see why he'd become a fighter.

[WoLong]

I should note that I don't agree with
Bards are not lacking in power, though Official-Elan isn't interested in maximizing the power of his class. If Elan was Chaotic Evil and cared about inflicting pain and taking what he wants, he's more likely to follow one of the Internet's bardic optimization templates--like Thog with his two-level fighter dip--than become a pure thug. I could see the described-personality Evil Elan as a thoroughly munchkined bard/Sublime Chord (likely one who followed a template to the letter because of lacking the brains to figure out how to be as powerful as he wanted to be himself), but I don't see why he'd become a fighter.

I did not envision Evil Elan as particularly power-hungry, since Good (or Official) Elan doesn't seem to care much about power or competence either. And since Elan seems to be the party member that cares most about others, I imagined that evil Elan would be the most hateful alignment flipped character of them all. While bard is undoubtedly a round class, I can't imagine it giving as much hulk smash satisfaction as Fighter.

[Math_Mage]

WoLong, please read the forum rules, particularly the section about double-posting.

As for Evil Elan, I view giving him a hulk smash mentality as at least as much a transformation of the character as making him power hungry. Not sure why I would prefer your interpretation to Kish's.

[WoLong]

WoLong, please read the forum rules, particularly the section about double-posting.

As for Evil Elan, I view giving him a hulk smash mentality as at least as much a transformation of the character as making him power hungry. Not sure why I would prefer your interpretation to Kish's.

I envisioned Evil Elan as a more hateful character.

However, I'm not attempting to argue about what they might be. Feel free to suggest what you think they might be like if you disagree with my interpretations.