OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

[Sylian]

I'm impressed. I have to admit that I was a bit sceptical of another Therkla story, but I did suspect that the Giant would be able to pull it off, and he did. This might be the best Kickstarter PDF yet! It's funny and it makes the characters of Therkla and Sangwaan much more interesting. And indeed, no one did see her demise coming, due to invisibility. Well played.

This PDF provides more proof that Therkla is Neutral and not Evil. And she didn't even kill the guards, she just knocked them out. No X's in their eyes.

[Gwynfrid]

I've never understood - why do people like Sangwaan so much? This story itself is the first time she's received enough characterization for it be understandable to me.

She's a classic doomed seer, and as such, she is a tragic actor and victim, in a poignant way - like the Iliad's Cassandra, but with a different take. And at the same time, she is very funny, even with the few lines she has. That's a strong combination. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other character who's this memorable with this few appearances.

Spoiler: There's also this bonus comic in W&XP

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What she says about Shojo is hilarious, as well as revealing about both him and herself.

On a related note, while it's been mentioned already, that was something else I loved about "Spoiler Alert" - the way it made it very clear that these supposed minor characters very much have lives and events and personalities of their own, going on wholly in the background of the Order's story. That's not something OOTS does that often, and it was really great to see it here.

Seconded. The breadth and depth of the character cast, well beyond the main party, never ceases to impress.

[Purgatorius]

Just finished "Spoiler alert".
Good reading! I enjoyed it!

[Yendor]

What? didnt think it was a coincidence that that tea and booze just happened to be the right chemical concoction to slow down a poison that instantly kills, did you ? (Actually this is just a theory of mine. Glad you enjoyed it)

Sangwaan knew who Therkla was and why she was there -- yes, it does seem very plausible she made a particular effort to save her life.

This PDF provide more proof that Therkla is Neutral and not Evil. She didn't even kill the guards, she just knocked them out. No X's in their eyes.

I think it's more telling that she went through that chain of deals to save the merchant, rather than take the easy way out and kill her.

Also: "35 hours later"? That would put it far too late in the day. Sometime after 9 pm.

[Armitage]

On a related note, while it's been mentioned already, that was something else I loved about "Spoiler Alert" - the way it made it very clear that these supposed minor characters very much have lives and events and personalities of their own, going on wholly in the background of the Order's story. That's not something OOTS does that often, and it was really great to see it here.

I'd like to disagree.
In my opinion, Rich often infuses secondary characters with a life outside of their direct interaction with the *tagonists (pro- or ant-). A panel or two, or a bonus strip in the books, and we learn more about those one-off characters as in many other works of fiction.

[Zyzzyva]

Actually, they got rushed out of the city and into the caves. Remember what Redcloak did to everyone in the caves?

...Thanks for that.

Spoiler: There's also this bonus comic in W&XP

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What she says about Shojo is hilarious, as well as revealing about both him and herself.

Spoiler: W&XP

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Now that you mention that, I wonder if she actually did have a thing for Hinjo, or if it was just Shojo being his usual self.

[Estelindis]

The Therkla story was wonderful. I really liked the connection between her not wanting to know how her book would end and how her life would end. It was very impressed with her persistence in never losing her increasingly-frayed patience during the long quest chain.

When Sangwaan commented on her hopes re. her own death, I had to sit back in silent amazement that Rich went there. Perfect mix of dark and funny.

Thanks for a great comic.

[The Pilgrim]

I love the McGuffin reference.

[Sylian]

I think it's more telling that she went through that chain of deals to save the merchant, rather than take the easy way out and kill her.

Yes, that's what I referred to, though I admit that I was less than clear on that part. She went through a lot of trouble in order to not have to kill a woman she didn't even know, thus providing some evidence for her being Neutral and not Evil. Going beyond this, she also let some guards live, hence my "She didn't even kill the guards" comment. At first, I thoughts that she had killed the guards, and even then, I thought she seemed more Neutral than Evil (presumably the guards attacked her). But she didn't kill the guards, hence my comment. It was unclear, I admit, and I hope that I have cleared up any confusion about where I stand on the issue. I suppose a simple "and" would have made it more clear. I'm editing my original post for greater clarity.

[t209]

"Orcs are not Hobgoblin."
Wait, Hitomi is an Orc, marrying a human of uppercrust? I thought the Azurites have "problems" with non-PC races.

[HendoJ]

Spoiler Alert



I'm sad now. Thanks for darkening my Friday Giant, poor Therkla.

[Zyzzyva]

"Orcs are not Hobgoblin."
Wait, Hitomi is an Orc, marrying a human of uppercrust? I thought the Azurites have "problems" with non-PC races.

No, Therkla's a (half-)Orc. The point is that Hitomi didn't invite Therkla because she's a (half-)Orc "and all the pointy-toothed races are basically the same, right?"

[factotum]

"Orcs are not Hobgoblin."
Wait, Hitomi is an Orc, marrying a human of uppercrust?

Er, no? Therkla is a half-orc, the said statement says nothing about what race Hitomi and her beau are.

[Zea mays]

I love the McGuffin reference.

Loved the Hitchcock Silhouette on the fan.

[ti'esar]

Loved the Hitchcock Silhouette on the fan.

Ah, so that's what that was!

[jidasfire]

Spoiler Warning was a really beautiful, sad story and well worth it. One minor thought I had is that this conversation actually helps to make sense of why Therkla was okay with dying in the end and not coming back. Her talk with Sangwaan probably came back to the forefront of her mind and she simply accepted it, rather than trying to fight. Still not exactly a happy end, but it helps to make sense of her choice. Moreover, I really did enjoy the brief, unlikely friendship between her and Sangwaan.

Lastly, of course, Kubota is still such a scumbag. I will never be sad that V fried him.

[Grey Watcher]

Loved the Hitchcock Silhouette on the fan.

Who knew there was a Hitchcock fan in the comic?

Also, I just noticed that Therkla was reading "the fifth volume in the Dark Primal Bloodlines trilogy." Hehe.

[Peelee]

Who knew there was a Hitchcock fan in the comic?

Alfred Hitchcock Presents is on Netflix, and is just as amazing as I remember as a child. Better, actually. I understand a lot more of the themes and subtleties now.

[Tev]

Thanks. This was a difficult one, writing-wise, so I appreciate it.

It was really great!

I actually wasn't huge fan of Therkla before, but this story won me over. Wonderfully written . . . and imo it's great introduction to OotS writing style, so I'll try it on some friends :)

[Grey Watcher]

Alfred Hitchcock Presents is on Netflix, and is just as amazing as I remember as a child. Better, actually. I understand a lot more of the themes and subtleties now.

I said in the comic, not on the forums. It's a pun, y'see... .

[Lissou]

Otoh, that was kinda the point? Whether or not a spoiler ruins the work. We knew she was going to die, and not in this adventure, but did that spoiler ruin the entire PDF?

I seriously don't think that counts as a spoiler. This story was written with the assumption that people had read the online comic and therefore knew how she died. That makes it a flashback or a prequel. A spoiler is something that ruins a work because the work was intended to be appreciated by people who did not know it. This is pretty much the opposite.
Knowing future events is just dramatic irony, and there was a LOT of it in this story.

Unless the writer did live in Azure City, as we do know there were no "next month" for the 6th volume of the trilogy* to be released.


*I liked that joke, too.

You mean the publisher. Where the writer lives isn't important if they finished their work already. If the story actually said "next month" then the manuscript would most definitely had been sent and reviewed already. As the pdf actually says "next year"... well, with the way the publishing industry works, manuscripts being completed over a year before they're released to the public isn't heard of, but when it's part of a series, that's more doubtful.

Either way, I took the whole "the next book, which will be out in a year, will be awesome" as some more dramatic irony. We know Therkla will die before then and will never get to read it.
this being said, I'm pretty sure the poster you responded to meant that she had time to finish the novel she already owns, not the whole series.


I really enjoyed the story. I hate spoilers so I could really relate. I liked the spoilers given by Kohaku which are a good parody of some stories. I'm unclear if those are actual spoilers or just things she made up to mess with Therkla, but they were entertaining either way.

As for seeing Therkla's death, my interpretation was that Shangwaan did give Therkla the antidote, and that, from her reaction, Therkla realised that. It's unclear to me if she saw Therkla's death as occuring later that night, prevented it, then after giving her the antidote saw her "next" death (hence agreeing to see next week and wishing her a good year) or if she never saw her first "death" at all because it never occurred (would she even have been poisoned if not for hanging out with Shangwaan, which is how she got the antidote? So it's possible she wouldn't have died either way and the time and fashion of her death were always the one we knew).

I try not to think about those things too much though. Prophecies and/or time travel can easily give me headaches.

[ref]

Probably wouldn't have died anyway. If she doesn't hang with Sangwaan it means she didn't accept the chain quest, kept battling Kohaku, and would have won (since we know she dies later).

And I agree we knowing that is not a spoiler. Would be like saying knowing the Titanic sinks is a spoiler.

[Lissou]

Probably wouldn't have died anyway. If she doesn't hang with Sangwaan it means she didn't accept the chain quest, kept battling Kohaku, and would have won (since we know she dies later).

That's not what I meant, actually. I didn't mean she wouldn't have taken the quest chain.
Therkla could have grabbed the scroll and left, not getting the antidote (her first drink plus the alcohol she drinks later). However, she also wouldn't have known that she would not die that day (asshe wouldn't have made plans to see Sangwaan next week) which means she wouldn't have stabbed herself onto the poisoned sword.

[Grey Watcher]

Would be like saying knowing the Titanic sinks is a spoiler.

It WHAT!!!!?

( )

[Peelee]

I said in the comic, not on the forums. It's a pun, y'see... .

...........I am not a smart man.

[Miriel]

Just wanted to say that I loved the story.

And that I love how the Giant includes real-life issues. As far as I can remember, disability hasn't taken much place role in the comic, unlike other issues, and gaming and fantasy have this tendency to ableism. So it's nice to see Sangwaan developed. I'm not blind, so I won't comment on how that experience is represented, but I am disabled, and I liked. I just did. The "I have had my fill of pity" thing rings true.

[Borelin]

There is no joke about her being dropped on her head, because she wasn't; she had a progressive medical condition. It is literally only the part about not seeing it coming.

That's what I took away from it. When she's drunk with Therkla, she says she wants her death to be something that she couldn't see coming. She was killed by an invisible zombie-dragon who dropped her to her death, emphasis on invisible. Literally no one saw it coming, because no one could see it.

It took me a second read through to get it at first, but it was a beautiful set up.

[TDG]

........ well. That was beautifully poignant.

[LuisDantas]

Wow, I sure enjoyed the Therkla story. Nice characterization for both her and Sanwaan, too.

I've never understood - why do people like Sangwaan so much? This story itself is the first time she's received enough characterization for it be understandable to me.

Fair enough a remark, but I tend to remember Sangwaan for her important role in the very dramatic moment of the revelation of Xykon's reveal in his invisible dragon.

She seemed so composed under such terrible stress, and there was the nice touch of her being a blind seer - a powerful if somewhat cliched combination.

She simply stood out. At a time when everyone was asking "where can Xykon be", she seemd so calm and confident in 421 and 426. Subconsciously, many of us must have looked at her for early warnings of immediate danger... and then she was instantly overwhelmed in 428-429. That really struck home.

On a related note, while it's been mentioned already, that was something else I loved about "Spoiler Alert" - the way it made it very clear that these supposed minor characters very much have lives and events and personalities of their own, going on wholly in the background of the Order's story. That's not something OOTS does that often, and it was really great to see it here.

I echo this.

[Pyron]

That's what I took away from it. When she's drunk with Therkla, she says she wants her death to be something that she couldn't see coming. She was killed by an invisible zombie-dragon who dropped her to her death, emphasis on invisible. Literally no one saw it coming, because no one could see it.

True. But, I can name two people who saw it coming.