L5R 4e Can shugenjas wear armor?

[Magic Myrmidon]

Pretty simple question. Does it interfere with spellcasting or anything?

[The Troubadour]

Yes, they can, and no, it doesn't. The reason most shugenja don't wear armour is because of social restrictions: if they do so, they're declaring to the world they are warriors and should be treated as such, and thus they're liable to being challenged to duels without being able to ask for a second to duel in their place, they won't necessarily be preferably captured instead of killed on the battlefield, etc.

[Fenix_of_Doom]

Yes, they can, and no, it doesn't. The reason most shugenja don't wear armour is because of social restrictions: if they do so, they're declaring to the world they are warriors and should be treated as such, and thus they're liable to being challenged to duels without being able to ask for a second to duel in their place, they won't necessarily be preferably captured instead of killed on the battlefield, etc.

I agree with your general statement, but not on specific consequesnces, for example, I think that everybody can ask for a second in a duel(though not necessarily without any loss of face). Not wearing armour has more to do with proper behavior, which is much more important in the setting, and can be better compared to not coming to a meeting in your shorts and bunny slippers.

[Magic Myrmidon]

Ah, that's what I thought. Thanks for the quick reply and info on possible social repercussions. It's good to know.

[Asmodai]

I can see some Lion or Crab Shugenjas going in armor, though. They're the clans most likely to expect their Shugenjas to actually be in the thick of it and take care of themselves.

Phoenix and Crane... have whole schools and families just dedicated to the idea of guarding Shugenja/People. I'm guessing that for them it would be a major faux paix not to have a meatshield instead.

The rest probably comes somewhere in between.

[TheOOB]

I can see some Lion or Crab Shugenjas going in armor, though. They're the clans most likely to expect their Shugenjas to actually be in the thick of it and take care of themselves.

Phoenix and Crane... have whole schools and families just dedicated to the idea of guarding Shugenja/People. I'm guessing that for them it would be a major faux paix not to have a meatshield instead.

The rest probably comes somewhere in between.

Actually Lion clan shugenja are less likely to wear armor(at least light or heavy armor).

Other are correct, shugenja can wear armor, and take no further penalties for doing so other than those everyone takes.

Shugenja don't wear armor for the same reason they don't carry a katana(even though they do in fact own a katana, all samurai do). It marks them as a warrior, which typically they are not. Remember that shugenja are rare and important to the clans, and are treated with respect, and in battle, typically given the right of surrender(that is if a Shugenja is defeated in battle, you are supposed to let them surrender whereas you are supposed to just execute a Bushi). If the Shugenja is carrying a katana or wearing samurai armor, this issue gets confused. They are important enough to their clan that they are supposed to suffer the dishonor of surrender rather than be killed, so they shouldn't act like a Bushi who is supposed to win or die.

Further, Light and Heavy armor(and Riding Armor), are hallmarks of the Bushi, and a non Bushi wearing such armor would likely be seen as offensive to any Bushi unless the wearing was a trained fighter and willing to fight and die on the battlefield, forgoing the right of surrender. Just as it is considered dishonorable for a Samurai carrying a katana to not fight their own duels, a Samurai wearing Samurai armor should fight their own battles.

Thus, shugenja, like courtiers, don't wear armor the majority of the time. It's not appropriate, and they really shouldn't need it. I'd imagine that if they are going to be near the front lines of battle, or if they are going somewhere particularly dangerous, they might wear Ashigaru Armor(which doesn't mark you as a Bushi), but Samurai armor would only be worn by those Shugenja who also carry a katana and fight as Bushi(mostly Tamori, though that's rare even among them), or those who are too pragmatic to care about tradition and honor(I doubt any Kuni who have access to Samurai armor would not wear it to fight shadowlands creatures).

Lion shugenja, being obsessed with honor, are not likely to insult the Bushi of their family by pretending to be one, and Lion shugenja tend rely on battlefield manipulation spells more than martial prowess anyways.

[The Troubadour]

Of course, exceptions exist: even the Phoenix have a tradition of warrior priests in the form of the Elemental Legions, and "Way of the Phoenix" mentions Isawa Tsuke (the Master of Fire in the 1st Edition timeline) wore armour and bore a katana in his time as an Emerald Magistrate, acting as a Bushi in almost all matters (and he was an excellent duellist, as well).
So, try to think of it less as "it's absolutely forbidden" and more as "it may be rare, and it's often frowned upon (maybe even severely), but it does happen".

[Ghost49X]

The use of a second in a duel implies that you can't fight yourself ether because you are not a warrior thus you wouldn't be expected to have the skills to defend yourself effectively or if some reason you are indisposed in some way that it would affect your skills.

For example a bushi who is gravely sick or wounded could ask for a second (though it might not always be granted) also the duel could be put off if time allows it. Both of these options would have to be accepted by the opposing party but since there is no honor/glory in defeating an opponent that can barely stand chances are they would agree to something, unless of course the weakened party is accused of faking and using this to buy time or there is some other motive for the duel in the first place.

Also Earth Shugenja don't really need to wear armor cause they have access to powerful buffs that compensate.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

This thread reminds me how I someday need to get into L5R. That's positively fantastic. A spellcaster who's perfectly capable of wearing armor, but doesn't do it because it marks them as a member of the warrior caste? That's awesome.

[TheOOB]

This thread reminds me how I someday need to get into L5R. That's positively fantastic. A spellcaster who's perfectly capable of wearing armor, but doesn't do it because it marks them as a member of the warrior caste? That's awesome.

L5R is awesome. It's a world where the code of Bushido actually has real tangible benefits and such role play considerations are important. An Akodo Bushi literally gets better at fighting by being honorable.

But yes, all Samurai in the setting own katana, they are given to them during their gumpakku(sp?), but carrying a katana means you are expected to be treated as a warrior and accept your own duels. Wearing samurai armor without a katana would be insulting to many bushi. There is even a section where it explains that female bushi are to be treated like a woman while out of armor, and a warrior while in armor.

Honestly, even in warfare as a shugenja I may go without armor so I can insist on my right of surrender(In Rokugan, it is considered dishonorable to surrender, and it is perfectly honorable to execute any samurai who does so to protect their honor. There is an exception for shugenja, due to their rarity and importance, where if they surrender they are supposed to be allowed to live so they may continue to serve the Empire). Of course if I'm a Tamori shugenja all bets are off.

[Rhynn]

gumpakku(sp?)

"Gempukku" in L5R, "genpuku" or "genbuku" IRL. :smallnerd:

[Asmodai]

L5R is awesome. It's a world where the code of Bushido actually has real tangible benefits and such role play considerations are important. An Akodo Bushi literally gets better at fighting by being honorable.

I love it. Especially the Fourth Edition. I just wish i had people to play it with :(

[TheOOB]

"Gempukku" in L5R, "genpuku" or "genbuku" IRL. :smallnerd:

Gomennasai sensei. Boku wa nihongo o hanashimasen.

L5R 4e is one of my favorite game systems. I have a love hate relationship with the roll and keep system, but one thing I REALLY like is how it combines a class and level based system with an organic advancement system, getting many of the advantages of each with few of the disadvantages. Seriously, the insight/school rank system ranks among the best game design choices I have ever seen.