Gender and Sexuality Representation in OOTS

[Eldest]

Alright, I'm coming into this thread late, so I'll comment on the OOTS members that have the * by their sexuality. In English, I am bisexual. I like both men and women. However, the ratio of men:women I find attractive is heavily skewed towards the women, heavily enough that if there was a term for a 1, 1.5 on the Kinsey scale, I'd use it instead. Because English doesn't have good terms for this stuff. There's bicurious, which (to me) means "I am curious if I am bi, so I will see if I am." Doesn't apply, since I'm certain I do like individuals of both genders. There's heteroflexible, which doesn't work because it's (in my opinion) a low fraction on the Kinsey scale. So I call myself bisexual.
Here's the part where this relates to the thread. So Haley (for example) likes some women, it's written in the story. She would then be bisexual, or maybe heteroflexible, although that doesn't fit well. While Nale was bicurious, and answered his question: by his own admission, he's heterosexual. Elan (after rereading that strip) seems to have done something with another guy at Bard Camp, and was worried about... something. Could be that Nale was hitting on him, could be everyone's reaction to Nale's hitting on him. Heck, could be that ended badly and he's remembering the bad memories. So instead of a "straight," that's a "oidunno." And this applies to most of them that I can see: Tarquin likes women, but when Roy's faking being attracted to him his excuse for saying no was "I'm getting married," not "I'm straight." So a lot of these are going with straight because it's the default. And I can't think of a better way to do that other than asking the Giant for each and every character, going with straight as the default, or putting in a blank unless you have conclusive proof that the character is x-sexual. And all of these have their flaws.

TL;DR: Several characters in the list might be not straight, but just haven't been defined. Also, English sucks for describing "not straight, but close."

[Shadowknight12]

Also, English sucks for describing "not straight, but close."

It also sucks for "not gay, but close", by the way.

[oppyu]

Ah yes, here's the part where I use my authority as someone who did a first-year sociology course on the subject to tell people that I know more about their sexual identity than they do. This'll go well.

In my completely uneducated opinion, 'bisexual' applies to 2-4 on the Kinsey scale, hetero/homoflexible covers 0.5-1.9 and 4.1-5.5, and the rest is either bi-curious or straight. And while Haley admitted that she kissed girls more than once, her latent bisexuality just doesn't seem that strong compared to her dominant heterosexual nature.

Regarding Haley, if my brain was broken down into split personalities, I don't think there'd be one called 'Oppyu's sexuality', whose sole purpose is to distract me with thoughts of licking cheesecake of the rippling abs of Hollywood stars. It's just my default setting, like my gender identity or my feelings towards boy bands (I hate them). If anything, the fact that there's only one part of Haley that supports latent bisexuality means that that part is inconsequentially strong compared to 'Haley's heterosexuality', or 'Haley's self-identification as a woman'.

Not conclusive proof I know, but still what I consider to be the most likely guess based on in-comic evidence. Which is the policy I've applied for other characters.

[Eldest]

It also sucks for "not gay, but close", by the way.

Hadn't mentioned it, since I was just sticking to what I know. But yeah, I can imagine. I guess bicurious still works, and you could make up homoflexible.

And Oppyu, I don't agree or disagree with you simply because, in my opinion, a word that I can really use to define who I like hasn't been invented yet. And I haven't taken any social sciences classes since high school (hate them). So, yeah, by that definition I would be heteroflexible, but that word a) doesn't seem right: I'm not a straight guy who's ok with dating a few men, I like both genders, just not in anything close to an even proportion, and b) pretty much nobody knows it, which defeats the purpose of using it as a label. So if I use it, I'm still stuck explaining what I mean.

[oppyu]

I should add that I'm fine with how you or anyone chooses to define themselves and would never question that, I was just defending my list... so yeah.

[Raineh Daze]

That scale and I don't get on (my position on scales never seems to stick to one place). Hm. Well. Anyway. XD

Also, the previous page: no, that's not a mechanical handling of it; that's taking advantage of a convenient cursed item, and DM fiat. :/

[Cerlis]

The art assets (boom!), the suggested tactics of seduction rather than coming in the night (yes!), and the way people are familiar with succubi on the table (I am the pun-master!) all are part of how we think about succubi in D&D.

And even at their best, D&D succubi are all about seduction rather than creating demonic offspring* which puts the focus squarely on their sex appeal rather than on the sexual violation that they're supposed to represent. Combine that with the virtual non-existence of incubi, the art and other fluff issues, and it adds up to a pretty clear sign that succubi are supposed to be sexy fun rather than fiendish horror.

*I would love to see this done well in a game some day, with players who were okay with it in advance obviously. Sleep paralysis, demonic possession, body horror, scary children; the incubus has got more horror in it than 90% of the Fiend Folio put together.

even mindless plants know the value of being attractive to their prey. I'm sure an intelligent parasitic demon would aggree that human's greatest weakness is the best way to eat them.

There is no focus on sex with the way in which a succubus eats (albiet there is one on the fact that its suppose to be an evil sex demon). The way a succubus hunts is attracting the attention of an individual. Charming him into leaving to a secluded place and then kissing him until he is dead. A succubus with a Eternal Holy Crotch Plate of Chastisty would be just as dangerous as one without. Inccubi are mentioned in the monster text and most monsters in the manuel dont specifically show male and female versions.

Yes i agree that they are obviously demons focused on using sex as a weapon. But that doesn't in the slightest mean they are big boobed sex-party demons. They are closer to the classic notion of vampires who lure young people away and eat them.

Also, English sucks for describing "not straight, but close."

I doubt that has anything to do with english. Unless most other languages has a specific logical word for the infinite possibilities of attraction.

Gay, Bi, bicurious,heteroflexible are all just slang and nothing more.

The problem isnt with english, its with the fact that most people think that just cus someone uses a word to describe something that it pertains to exactly what the listener's interpretation of it.

For instance if I say me and my roommate are gay, then obviously most people think we have sex, because they think that gay means "will have sex with any and all men". The problem isnt with the word, its with the person listening. If someone hears that you are Bi and then assumes that they can set you up with any man or woman then its their idiocy.

[Shadowknight12]

Hadn't mentioned it, since I was just sticking to what I know. But yeah, I can imagine. I guess bicurious still works, and you could make up homoflexible.

Yeah, but like you said yourself, they're not ideal labels.

In my completely uneducated opinion, 'bisexual' applies to 2-4 on the Kinsey scale, hetero/homoflexible covers 0.5-1.9 and 4.1-5.5, and the rest is either bi-curious or straight.

While I could discuss sexuality and terminology until bovines, 9:35 express, tearful reunion, etc., I find it somewhat frustrating that the same word gets applied to 2 and 4, despite being quite opposite. I wish there were more specific labels.

I'm also pretty satisfied with the list as it is. We could keep it updated as the story progresses, in case we have confirmation one way or the other for the characters (or more get introduced).

[blauregen]

You could try something like the Klein-Sexual-Orientation-Grid for labeling.

Let's see, with 'past' being 'back when I was young and pretty', 'ideal' being 'most fulfilling' and 'emotional preference' meaning 'complements me better', I'd locate myself at:

A: 6 6 7
B: 6 7 6
C: 6 7 7
D: 5 6 6
E: 3 5 4
F: 5 5 4
G: 5 6 6

[Raineh Daze]

Not really going to help me, I must say. If I Tried, it would probably look like utterly random numbers. XD

[Eldest]

I should add that I'm fine with how you or anyone chooses to define themselves and would never question that, I was just defending my list... so yeah.

Had a good laugh at how that was phrased. It never came across as you saying that I'm wrong about what I say about myself, just that you have different meanings for the same words. So do we all. You have a worldview I don't, simply from being another person, and it's equally valid as my own. I may disagree over the details (what names goes to what portion of the Kinsey scale, is it even a good model, are the Braves a good baseball team or no) but why bother?

I doubt that has anything to do with english. Unless most other languages has a specific logical word for the infinite possibilities of attraction.

I only said English since that's the language I'm fluent in. French (working on fluency) doesn't seem better off, no. No experience with attraction definitions and labels in other languages.

I mentioned this in the LGBT thread: we need little graphs instead of words to describe these things. Much more intuitive.

[Gray Mage]

What. That, just... what.

Just to chime in really quick, I believe the spell polymorph any object would do. 3k GP for a scroll, so a 4th level character could afford it by wealth by level table and any wizard that didn't ban transmutation can cast it. One standard action later and transition is complete and permanent (unless dispelled). With metamagic reducers (so the resulting spell is of a lower spell level) and the permanancied metamagic and alter self would fit, if you could cast it every day. Carry on now.

[Raineh Daze]

Err... so basically, there aren't actual mechanics for it, just stuff that can be used for it. Got it.

[Gray Mage]

Err... so basically, there aren't actual mechanics for it, just stuff that can be used for it. Got it.

As far as I know, yes. Although with the number of supplements and third party books, it's possible that there is, but I wouldn't count on it (or how it's handled).

[jere7my]

As far as I know, yes. Although with the number of supplements and third party books, it's possible that there is, but I wouldn't count on it (or how it's handled).

Your best bet would be the d20 System Book of Erotic Fantasy, but I don't have a copy and can't be sure.

[blauregen]

Just to chime in really quick, I believe the spell polymorph any object would do. 3k GP for a scroll, so a 4th level character could afford it by wealth by level table and any wizard that didn't ban transmutation can cast it. One standard action later and transition is complete and permanent (unless dispelled). With metamagic reducers (so the resulting spell is of a lower spell level) and the permanancied metamagic and alter self would fit, if you could cast it every day. Carry on now.

Yup, same kingdom, class,size, inteligence. It would be permanent, and cheaper than I expected, provided you have access to a high enough level mage or cleric with trickery. Thank you. :)

[Gray Mage]

Yup, same kingdom, class, size, inteligence. It would be permanent, and cheaper than I expected, provided you have access to a high enough level mage or cleric with trickery. Thank you. :)

If you can get a scroll of it any wizard/sorc with and 18 int/cha can use it on you, regarless of level. Failing that, someone with a high/good UMD can use it too. Can also be used to change species, withing reason, if you want. You can even turn a human into a halfling or into something smarter, since kingdom, class and either size or same int add up to 9.

You're welcome.

[Dr.Gunsforhands]

If you can't find anyone at 15th level to make the scroll, the 4th-level Reincarnate has a good shot at doing the job if you don't mind, uh, other random changes. I think it's technically a 50/50 chance, but I'd put better-than-even odds on it unless the DM is really grumpy or something.

It can't be dispelled, either, though each casting ends up costing a level or a con point on top of the 1000GP of reagents. How much is it worth to not be vulnerable to Dispel Magic?

[blauregen]

If you can't find anyone at 15th level to make the scroll, the 4th-level Reincarnate has a good shot at doing the job if you don't mind, uh, other random changes. I think it's technically a 50/50 chance, but I'd put better-than-even odds on it unless the DM is really grumpy or something.

It can't be dispelled, either, though each casting ends up costing a level or a con point on top of the 1000GP of reagents. How much is it worth to not be vulnerable to Dispel Magic?

With good chances to end up a bugbear, lizardfolk, kobold or something along the line? Not to diminish the idea, but I imagine that going from human to kobold would chafe my self-image at least as much, as being male when identifying as a woman or vice versa.

Yes, I know, I am picky.

[Eldest]

Your best bet would be the d20 System Book of Erotic Fantasy, but I don't have a copy and can't be sure.

It does not have rules for transgenderism.

[Tragak]

Alright, I'm coming into this thread late, so I'll comment on the OOTS members that have the * by their sexuality. In English, I am bisexual. I like both men and women. However, the ratio of men:women I find attractive is heavily skewed towards the women, heavily enough that if there was a term for a 1, 1.5 on the Kinsey scale, I'd use it instead. Because English doesn't have good terms for this stuff. There's bicurious, which (to me) means "I am curious if I am bi, so I will see if I am." Doesn't apply, since I'm certain I do like individuals of both genders. There's heteroflexible, which doesn't work because it's (in my opinion) a low fraction on the Kinsey scale. So I call myself bisexual.

How about hetero-dominant bisexual for 0.5-2.5 and homo-dominant bi for 3.5-5.5? Would that work?

EDIT: Never mind on the specific ranges; not important.

[gerryq]

Err... so basically, there aren't actual mechanics for it, just stuff that can be used for it. Got it.

A bit like sex, then?

[Dudebot2000]

How about hetero-dominant bisexual for 0.5-2.5 and homo-dominant bi for 3.5-5.5? Would that work?

When would I ever need to describe my sexuality this precise to someone?

[Shadowknight12]

When would I ever need to describe my sexuality this precise to someone?

For science!

It wants to know everything about you.

Everything.

[Dudebot2000]

For science!

It wants to know everything about you.

Everything.

"Hey, I'm hetero-dominant bisexual. Here's my business card. We're less than half a standart deviation away in terms of sexual preference. Now do me on this pile of excel spreadsheets!"

[Shadowknight12]

"Hey, I'm hetero-dominant bisexual. Here's my business card. We're less than half a standart deviation away in terms of sexual preference. Now do me on this pile of excel spreadsheets!"

I know this is intended to be a joke, but I would like to remind you that we're in a forum based on a D&D comic, who happens to gather large concentrations of D&D fans.

"Do me on this pile of excel spreadsheets!" might become a bona fide pick up line.

[oppyu]

I know this is intended to be a joke, but I would like to remind you that we're in a forum based on a D&D comic, who happens to gather large concentrations of D&D fans.

"Do me on this pile of excel spreadsheets!" might become a bona fide pick up line.

Oh... Excel spreadsheets you say... Would you like to come in for some coffee? I LOVE excel spreadsheets.

[Shadowknight12]

Oh... Excel spreadsheets you say... Would you like to come in for some coffee? I LOVE excel spreadsheets.

Hah, see? I knew it'd catch on.

Anyone who doesn't love excel spreadsheets is missing out on one of life's finest joys.

[Cerlis]

You could try something like the Klein-Sexual-Orientation-Grid for labeling.

Let's see, with 'past' being 'back when I was young and pretty', 'ideal' being 'most fulfilling' and 'emotional preference' meaning 'complements me better', I'd locate myself at:

A: 6 6 7
B: 6 7 6
C: 6 7 7
D: 5 6 6
E: 3 5 4
F: 5 5 4
G: 5 6 6

I mentioned this in the LGBT thread: we need little graphs instead of words to describe these things. Much more intuitive.

Maybe on a website where you have a detailed profile.

But no one is going to use something like.....*points up* THAT in casual or even extended conversation(f you are talking that long you might as well just say what you like).

[Cerlis]

Hah, see? I knew it'd catch on.

Anyone who doesn't love excel spreadsheets is missing out on one of life's finest joys.

paper cuts?