Water, Earth, Fire, and Air [class]

[Enlong]

Eh? This was ordinary dnd, played at my house, not online. Why would you think it was PBP?



I agree, she did take out the heavily armoured 'Terra Force' (great name). It seems she can disable both bending and normal movement, i assume bending's easier to disable.

Sorry. My apologies. I thought when you said that the game had "come and gone" that we were both talking about the PBP game that was slowly being planned here, and that I still want to know the fate of.

[Ceiling009]

I'm thinking of running a game with these classes, but I have a few questions as to what to include into the game world... I know there can't be any mages or sorcerors or any those arcane spellcasters... but how about the divine spell casters? They seems just as... well out of place and a little better as an alternative to being a bender or any of the weapon and skill based classes... I figure there needs to be a healer class... and that's the waterbender... but they're so generalized in a sense, good healers in a pinch, but how about all the time? So I have some suggestions and critiques...

- allow the waterbender to have something like Healing Water, Lesser; which could act as either cure light wounds or cure minor wounds... as it's shown that healing, though not frequent is common enough in waterbenders that most (if not all) waterbender females learn it. Also most clerics and other possible healers get a worthwhile healing spell at level 2 or 4... So it would be helpful...


-Speaking of forms, there should be forms for the ice discs, and the javelin storm used in the fight between Katara and Paku...Tentantive numbers here...

Ice Chakrams: By taking a full round action, the Waterbender has created a short column of ice and proceeds to throw a number of razor sharp discs of ice at the target. Each round after the creation of the column of ice, the Waterbender is able to throw a disc of ice (1d3? half cold/half slashing) for every 2 levels waterbender (maximum 10? per round). The column of ice endures 1 round/2 levels waterbender. To hit, the Bender must succeed in a touch ranged attack, and the opponent has a reflex save for half the damage (Save: 10 + half waterbending levels + wis mod?) .

Ice Chakrams, Greater: As Ice Chakrams, but the discs do 1d6? (half cold/hald slashing)

Icelance: maybe as the spell icelance? or tone it down a bit...

Ice Javelin Rain (Greater form): The waterbender manipulates a large amount of water into the air and causes ice javelins to rain down unto the foe(s). Each javelin does 1d6 and half the damage to adjacent squares, the waterbender can rain down 1 javelin per every 2 levels of waterbender (maximum 10). To succeed hitting the foe(s) the Waterbender makes a ranged touch attack against the square which the foe is standing.

- The proposed PrC, Healing Disciple looks really promising, but I was wondering about how many times can they stabilize per day? or what not... Also, I was wondering if Heal x/day should really be a function of class levels much like the healing bending forms... as it seems this class is going to be the top notch healer in the party or for that matter in the game's contextual world...

- Also on the Healing disciple, wouldn't they have some more forms for damage dealing purposes, since knowing how to heal the body can lend itself to how to hurt the body fairly well... and also more forms to "cure" status ailements like confusion, much like how Katara helped Jet in the episode "Lake Lagoai".
-Damaging forms for the Healing disciple could be like... wow... I'm so lost for ideas...

And hello everyone, sorry for not doing it the first time I posted.

[Yuki Akuma]

...I'm trying to work out ideas for my Fire + Air PrC (I'm thinking of calling him the Adept of Smoke and Ash, 'cause it sounds cool), but I can't think of any class abilities.

Except using smoke to smother a victim, I have no idea what to do! Help...?

[CaelCyndar1993]

How about Superheated Ash?
It would act like all the standard 'blast' attacks, except it deals fire damage.

Or an ability I call conceive?
The user will bend the smoke into the sky. From there the smoke acts as a cloud nucleus, thus creating a lightning cloud that acts as if it were regular weather.

Think of it this way. Combine the Airbender's Wisdom and understanding with the Firebender's Desire to advance. You can come up with some pretty cool things if you know a bit about chemistry.

[averagejoe]

...I'm trying to work out ideas for my Fire + Air PrC (I'm thinking of calling him the Adept of Smoke and Ash, 'cause it sounds cool), but I can't think of any class abilities.

Except using smoke to smother a victim, I have no idea what to do! Help...?

You could modify Air Blast type effects so that they do fire damage in addition. A cloud of ash and sparks could continually damage people in an area, as well as risking suffocation. Cover the ground with ash, harming anyone who walks on it. It seems like this class would be good for those static area effects.

[Tussy the Druid]

Katara moves her arms, though. She claims that it wasn't because he arms were disabled, but rather because the flow of Chi through her body had been disrupted.

Although in the season finale Ty Lee paralyzed Toph as well as Sokka. I think. Would their be a choice if that feat was allowed? I skimmed over the editions, maybe it was mentioned.

[GryffonDurime]

Although in the season finale Ty Lee paralyzed Toph as well as Sokka. I think. Would their be a choice if that feat was allowed? I skimmed over the editions, maybe it was mentioned.

Seems like an advancement in skill: look at Katara during her first battle with Ty Lee, then look at her in Bah Sing Sae. Full paralysis probably came about as Ty Lee learned to apply more of her skills to combat...the first instance of her even paralyzing selective parts of a body was Sokka during the Chase, wasn't it? Or am I blanking on something?

[X15lm204]

Ty Lee's paralysis attacks are probably just the Freezing the Lifeblood feat from OA, since it does no direct damage, though I can't see her as meeting the Wis 17+ requirement (nothing against her, but she seems a little too spacey for that high a score). Unfortunately it seems to have been left out of realmshelps; otherwise I would post a link.

[averagejoe]

Should we create prerequisites for some of the bending froms? For example, shouldn't greater blades of fire have blades of fire as a prerequisite?

A couple new minor firebending forms.

Heat Blast: This form modifies the firebender's heat blast ability. As a move action, the firebender may release a blast of heat with the next fire blast he uses that round. If the firebender does not use fire blast in the same round, then this ability is wasted. If a target is damaged by this fire blast then they must make a fortitude save (10 + 1/2 firebender level + wis modifier) or become fatigued. The fatigue ends in one hour, or when they heal any damage, whichever comes first. A person may not become exhausted by this ability, and it can only affect any one person once per hour.

(This one was rather obvious, as it was in the first episode of season 2. As far as I know, no one's done it.)Fire Daggers: With this form a firebender can create a dagger made of fire in one or each hand as a move action. These are treated as daggers in all ways except the wielder only needs to make a touch attack, and they do one extra damage per die of fire blast the firebender has.

Lesser Break Stance: As a standard action, a firebender may unleash an attack that is identical to fire blast, except it deals only 2d6 damage, and when someone takes damage from this ability they must make a strength check (DC 10 + damage dealt + firebender's wisdom modifier) or be knocked back 5 feet.

[Ceiling009]

hmm, making prerequisites for forms would make sense... but it would take up slots in the number of forms known, unless the the better forms automatically replaces the obsolete form...I mean I can see the benefit for having let's say, Healing Water and Healing Water, Greater, as you could heal more through out the day, then you're at loss for a form slot...But how about things like Water wave? or Earthen shield, tremorsense, and Tornado? Having multiple of those seems kinda pointless as they basically do the samething, and don't have restrictions on how many times a day it can be done.

[X15lm204]

I agree with Ceiling009. Benders get too few forms to restrict their choices to ones that will soon be useless. If, on the other hand, we make them able to learn new forms from study, it would make perfect sense and not be nearly as restricting to require prerequisite forms.

[averagejoe]

I suppose the two of you are right. It's one of those things that makes a bit more sense flavor-wise than mechanics wise.

[Yuki Akuma]

We could make them take the "lesser" forms as prerequisites, then let them 'upgrade' them later and take another form in place of the one that got upgraded.

If we do that we could also say that anyone with a "greater" form can use its "lesser" forms in place of using the higher version.

[Ceiling009]

I think that works pretty well. So that the Greater forms are given for free in a sense, kinda like the Warlocks and thier upgrades for the Least, Lesser, Moderate, and Greater invocations, where certain levels you get to replace older invocations and gain newer invocations.

[Saeveo]

...I'm trying to work out ideas for my Fire + Air PrC (I'm thinking of calling him the Adept of Smoke and Ash, 'cause it sounds cool), but I can't think of any class abilities.

Except using smoke to smother a victim, I have no idea what to do! Help...?

A concealing smoke-screen of some sort, perhaps? Or, maybe, an aura of super-heated air that deals damage to all adjacent creatures, (Or perhaps just to those who attempt melee attacks?) useable for a number of rounds per day. (Or per encounter, whatever works.)

[Callos_DeTerran]

We could make them take the "lesser" forms as prerequisites, then let them 'upgrade' them later and take another form in place of the one that got upgraded.

If we do that we could also say that anyone with a "greater" form can use its "lesser" forms in place of using the higher version.

Its a good idea, one that'll make it worth while to master a certain form (Since it eventually becomes a three-in-one form) but not restricting the total number that people can get.

[Mephibosheth]

Bumpitty bump! I've been away for a while (I'm in India, and my internet access has been somewhat spotty), but I'm back now.

My question is: What needs to be done before we start our play-testing campaign. What questions need to be resolved? What content needs to be created? Ing, any thoughts?

Mephibosheth

[Yuki Akuma]

I still need to do the Fire+Air PrC... it's not vital, but I'm a perfectionist. Now if only I wasn't also lazy...

[averagejoe]

We definitely want to go over what is/isn't allowed in the campaign. As far as the creative level there isn't much besides maybe a final look at the various PrC's.

By the way, I forget, but did we decide that those eliete archer guys from The Blue Spirit (or, as I like to call it, the sucking on frogs episode) deserved a PrC of their own, or were just mean archer builds, or perhaps just a renamed existing PrC.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I think the archer guys from "The Blue Spirit" were just really well made archer guys. If there was a PrC I would saw something like Order of the Bow or one of those other ones, possibly elven, just without the racial requirment.

[Mephibosheth]

On the topic of nonbender classes, here are those I think should be availible, from Core, the Complete Series, and other sources:

Unrestricted: Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Rogue, Scout, Swashbuckler, Knight, Warblade, Crusader, Marshall, Samurai (kanachi's version, link below)

Restricted:
Ranger (CW noncaster): Earth Kingdom
The Ranger is a spiritual warrior who uses his bending not as a weapon but as a source of strength.
Paladin (CW noncaster): Water Tribes
The Paladin is a master of the healing arts of waterbending and a righteous defender of her tribe. (maybe replace mount w/ better healing?)
Ninja: Air Nomads
The Ninja is a mysterious agent of the Air Temples who uses ancient mystical techniques to "fade into the wind." (need to rework fluff, maybe change some abilities)
Swordsage: Fire Nation
The Swordsage trains constantly to master his body in the same sense as a firebender controls fire, channelling the destructive power of that element into his sword. (not sold on this one, maybe make unrestricted and replace with reworked soulknife?)

Any other classes from the same sources were left out beacause I felt they were inappropriate for the setting, either because they used standard magic or because they stank to the high heavens (yes, I'm looking at you, CW Samurai).

When the PbP comes, I'm planning either a Fire Nation or Water Tribe character. I think the campaign should be before - optimally just before, during and after - Sozin's comet arrives, allowing characters of any nation to be in the party and preventing strife based on nation, at least until disaster strikes. Also, I second the suggestion that the Avatar should not be in the party, no matter the time period.

If someone has Oriental Adventures, it might help considerably, especially for monsters if a party somehow ends up on the Spirit Realm (my copy is currently in Germany).

Kanachi's Samurai:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10215

Since it looks like things are winding down, I thought it might be a good idea to turn our attention to exactly what classes are allowed in the Avatar world. By and large, I think the list above is pretty solid, though I am unfamiliar with the a few of the classes (notably, those from Tomb of Battle and the PHB2). I think that the final base class list should look something like this:

• Air/Fire/Earth/Waterbender
• Barbarian
• Fighter
• Rogue
• Monk
• Ranger (non-caster) - A major departure from the above list. I think that the Ranger class is vanilla enough to be available to all nations. I feel like Zuko has a few Ranger levels, as would members of the Water Tribe (Bato maybe). I don't see why we need to restrict it to the Earth Kingdom.
• Paladin (non-caster) - I don't really know how I feel about this one. On the one hand, the healing focus lends itself to a Water Tribe restriction. On the other hand, the rest of the class doesn't really scream Water Tribe to me. Paladins just seem too aggressive to me. I'm on the fence about this one.
• Scout
• Swashbuckler
• Marshall
• Ninja - I think I support the restriction to Air Nomads on this one. Ninja just seems to fit. On the other hand, we don't really know what the Air Nomads are like outside of the monastic community. Again, I'm kinda on the fence.

I think that, while I like the idea of nation-restricted classes, I don't know whether they fit or not. I can see both ways. I think I would err on the side of unrestricted access to classes, if only to give players more options. Also, I'm sure everyone noticed that I didn't include a few of the classes from the original list. I omitted them because I don't own the books and haven't looked at the classes. I think that this list is pretty good and provides enough options without departing too much from the world of the show.

Mephibosheth

[GryffonDurime]

Rangers have a place, I think...but maybe to make up for the loss of their spells, they could get Terrain Masteries for their favored locales, ala Horizon Walker? That could help to differentiate a Water Tribe Ranger from an Earth Kingdom Ranger.

[Rama_Lei]

The one thing that may be troubling here, is that in the show, the benders are limited only by imagination and there is lots of improvisation. People playing a bender will want to do lots of things that there aren't rules for, leaving DM's scrambling.

[Katasi]

Since it looks like things are winding down, I thought it might be a good idea to turn our attention to exactly what classes are allowed in the Avatar world. By and large, I think the list above is pretty solid, though I am unfamiliar with the a few of the classes (notably, those from Tomb of Battle and the PHB2). I think that the final base class list should look something like this:

• Air/Fire/Earth/Waterbender
• Barbarian
• Fighter
• Rogue
• Monk
• Ranger (non-caster) - A major departure from the above list. I think that the Ranger class is vanilla enough to be available to all nations. I feel like Zuko has a few Ranger levels, as would members of the Water Tribe (Bato maybe). I don't see why we need to restrict it to the Earth Kingdom.
• Paladin (non-caster) - I don't really know how I feel about this one. On the one hand, the healing focus lends itself to a Water Tribe restriction. On the other hand, the rest of the class doesn't really scream Water Tribe to me. Paladins just seem too aggressive to me. I'm on the fence about this one.
• Scout
• Swashbuckler
• Marshall
• Ninja - I think I support the restriction to Air Nomads on this one. Ninja just seems to fit. On the other hand, we don't really know what the Air Nomads are like outside of the monastic community. Again, I'm kinda on the fence.

I think that, while I like the idea of nation-restricted classes, I don't know whether they fit or not. I can see both ways. I think I would err on the side of unrestricted access to classes, if only to give players more options. Also, I'm sure everyone noticed that I didn't include a few of the classes from the original list. I omitted them because I don't own the books and haven't looked at the classes. I think that this list is pretty good and provides enough options without departing too much from the world of the show.

Mephibosheth

I can't see limiting most classes to one nation.

[averagejoe]

I don't really see us needing (or wanting) paladins. I like the terrain mastery idea for the ranger, though.

[CaelCyndar1993]

I think we need a few more things to help define the actual Avatar world.

We need:

To stat up the various creatures in Avatar. I mean, honestly, can you see a bender battling any of the current DnD monsters? Sure, some will work, but we need to give stats to things like Boar-Q-Pines, Buzzard Wasps, Canyon Crawlers, and things like that.

We also need, as stated before, a way to cover improvised bending. It will take some work but in some ways it will be like designing a trap. We just need to factor in the difficulty of the task. Alternatively, we could just make a set of scroll items designed specifically to bending, and the bender cannot do bending unless he/she learns it from his/her class or from scrolls.

What's a world without cities? We should also make some statistics and possibly maps of important places in Avatar. We can't make it exactly like the show, but from all the episodes, we can probably get it pretty close.

Finally, in my opinion, I've noticed that there are unique items in Avatar. We should take these and put them in DnD format.

[Eighth_Seraph]

I hate to interrupt, but I have some bad new for y'all peoples. I've just run an Airbender vs. Earthbender duel, and I just realized that Deflect Bending as well as its implications need clearing up. does a bender choose to deflect before or after knowing whether the opponent's attack roll hits or not? Also, the way it is worded, a bender can deflect an infinite amount of opposing blasts at not penalty on any attempt and not sacrifice any attacks for it. That needs clearing up.

Also dealing with the airbender, there's a few VERY powerful abilities that need looking over. Air blast at 20th level: I managed to miss the reflex save despite head-on defense (which is arguably broken) and got blasted 450 feet away, plus the 45 feet away I already was. That would be over a cliff in a campaign, way over a cliff. Also, the 10d6 damage Reap the Whirlwind is very dangerous, since it counts as a weapon that can be used as normal, three attacks at level 20. It also means no deflect bending for any earthbenders rendered helpless by greater air shield. These may or may not be situational advantages, but they're something to look into.

Also, Fire vs. Water planned for this Friday, and it intially seems that firebender damage is overpowered, since there's no chance for my poor waterbender to deflect any of their forms, aside from using octopus form. It would be a good idea to add in how firebending is affected by being underwater, and to add a tremorsense form for waterbenders, much like the earthbender forms.

Sorry if I'm being too up-front, I can't seem to pull off my usual drawn-out and tactful explanations tonight. Not a very relaxing time for me at the moment.

[Mephibosheth]

Thanks a lot for your comments, Eighth_Seraph. It's these sorts of problems that playtesting is intended to avert. Let's look at your issues one by one:

1. Deflect Bending:

My intention with deflect bending was that the bender would announce during their turn (either before or after making any attacks, it really doesn't matter) that they were forgoing a number of attacks (limited by BAB, obviously) during that turn (i.e. a bender whose BAB allows 3 attacks could make 1 attack and forgo 2 or forgo all 3 attacks, etc). For each attack the bender forgoes, he/she would have an opportunity to deflect a single bending attack (i.e. a bender who forgoes 2 attacks could make 2 Deflect Bending attempts), which would be adjudicated as the description stipulates. If I'm describing this correctly, that means that a bender can only attempt to deflect bending a number of times equal to the attacks his/her BAB allows. You're right that I didn't specify that unsuccessful attempts are used up, and that the attempt is determined before an actual attack is rolled. I should also clarify that a bender can only make one attempt to Deflect Bending per bending attack, and that the BAB for Deflect Bending attempts is identical to normal BAB (i.e. the first attempt in a turn is at highest BAB, and any subsequent attempts are at lower BAB).

For example, an Airbender squares off against an Earthbender. Both benders are 20th level, giving them each 3 attacks. Our Airbender is very defensively-minded, and elects to forgo all her attacks in order to make 3 Deflect Bending attempts. Our Earthbender on the other hand is very aggressive and chooses not to forgo any attacks, hurling 3 Earth Blasts at the Airbender. Before the Earthbender rolls an attack to determine if his first Earth Blast hits, the Earthbender and the Airbender make opposed attack rolls. The Airbender wins the opposed attack roll, and the Earth Blast is deflected by a tornado. Then, the Earthbender makes his second attack, and the same procedure holds true. This time, the Earthbender wins and he rolls his attack as normal, hitting the Airbender for 9d6 damage. The same procedure is used again for the Earthbender's third attack.

Does this make more sense? Does it clear up some of your problems? I really struggled with the wording of Deflect Bending, and I'm still not sure I'm happy with it. Any suggestions you have to make it clearer would be helpful.

2. High-Level Abilities

You're right that some of the higher-level abilities deal a lot of damage. I think the most flagrant example of this is a Firebender with the Blue Fire greater form. At 20th level, he/she would be able to make 4 attacks per round (using the Firestorm ability), each dealing 9d8 damage (a total of 36d8). I admit that this is a lot of damage, but I keep thinking of things like Disintegrate, Slay Living, Power Attacking for tons of damage, 4+ sneak attacks, and other things high level characters are capable of, it doesn't seem that flagrant. Also remember that they're all bending, and therefore subject to Deflect Bending. I'm more than willing to listen to suggestions to make them more balanced (if you think it's still necessary).

3. Air Shield

I think I'm going to clarify that Air Shield (and its Lesser and Greater versions) require a move action to maintain. Would this make the ability less unbalanced. If the helplessness you're referring to relates to Tornado, remember that it requires concentration to maintain, so an Airbender shouldn't be able to maintain Tornado and use other bending forms or attacks.

4. Firebenders v. Waterbenders

If anything, it should be easier for Waterbenders to deflect Firebender attacks due to the Firebender's penalty on Deflect Bending attacks. The element itself doesn't effect what can be deflected and what can't. Why do you say that Waterbenders don't stand a chance? I mean, the Firestorm ability would mean one attack sneaks by, but there's no reason why a Waterbender wouldn't be able to deflect any of the bending.

Hope this helps. If you still have issues, or I'm misunderstanding you, please clarify so we can work out these issues.

Mephibosheth

[Eighth_Seraph]

Also remember that they're all bending, and therefore subject to Deflect Bending

Oh? Deflect bending specifies that only blasts can be deflected, but that's good to know. My earthbender almost got sliced to small chunks by Reap the Whirlwind, but Earthen Armor really is incredibly useful at that high a level.

Hope this helps. If you still have issues, or I'm misunderstanding you, please clarify so we can work out these issues.

Mephibosheth

Nope, that about does it. I'm mostly worried about damage, since firebenders are infinitely more damage-based than waterbenders, who seem to be the best bender class to work backup whenever there's a large enough source of water nearby. Also, I think it's best that it be made clear how firebending works underwater, since I'm kind of hoping to use Greater Bend Plants to drown my opponent in the duel after using Blind-Fight combined with Fog Cloud and Greater Water Whip combined with Improved Trip to get him into the water at the center of the Oasis, where our duel is taking place. I also think that from the way Katara fought in the show, that Change Phase might also best be used as part of a Manipulate action.

[Ralasha]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned... but your benders seem to have an equal number of forms, high moderate and low, unless you sacrafice one of higher ability, but logically, forms should continue to be gained beyond the inital two... And as far as the far back comment that sand plants and lightning should be seperated... no, just like metal, they are just harder to do, and would be considered a Form with prerequisits. The reasoning being that they take time, and more effort, and the way to bend them while similar, would be at least slightly different from the base elements. *Edit: They would most likely if using a System similar to D&D Be meta-type feats perhaps requiring certain Forms.

*Edit: Adition: One other suggestion is that flight should not necessarily be limited to Glider Staffs, as the war fans could also allow flight if the airbender was good enough.

As for other things, Armor of Ice, and Shelters should be makeble by benders... Aang makes a small hut out of ice, and Bending is done with precision and grace, the earth bending mailmen for instance, could probably build a stone house if they put in the effort. Next: Your system does not Eliminate the possibility of a PC learning all four... since you could just take all four with 5 levels in each at a time One after the other. Air 5, Water 5 (can't gain Air levels), Earth 5 (Can't gain Water/Air levels), Fire 5 (Can't gain water air or earth levels)