High School Harem Comedy (Game System, PEACH)

[Esprit15]

I think the biggest thing is wording clarification and intended way that advantages are supposed to work.

[Aleolus]

Understandable. Though at some point, you should try to cash in on it, just to see what happens.

Regardless, yeah we're pretty happy with it the way it is. And we can always homebrew more archetypes. Heck, I think I have like four of them somewhere around here I could post if people are interested in seeing them.

I'm interested! I've got one myself I can post as well if people want

[Vexing]

I mostly wanted to poke my head in and comment on the system itself! It's neat to see that a role-play heavy, rules-light homebrew has such a devoted thread, following, and is still being tweaked and brewed for actively; I'm a sucker for shared narrative games. Good show, Rainy and Co.! Even though I'm not exactly familiar with the source materials (harem anime) it still strikes me as a fun game to try running as a rainy day one-shot for my live group, or to try out here on the forums!

It's that last part that actually drove me to comment: I'm interested in testing it out or seeing how it's been played, and don't have a good grounding in the genre. The system seemed interesting, so I ducked into a recruitment thread for a game (now running) to try and get hands-on experience, but I imagine it looks very different from the GM's side than to a totally new player.

So, I thought I'd ask for advice from folks who're clearly interested in the system. Do any of you have tips for creating a well-flowing episode story, or insights on mechanics/DCs to share? Is there an archived thread floating around of a finished game with this system as an example of it in action? Does this style of thing tend to end up leaning more to comedy or drama in practice? The examples in Rainy's masterpost ARE helpful, but more input never hurt!

[Aleolus]

I mostly wanted to poke my head in and comment on the system itself! It's neat to see that a role-play heavy, rules-light homebrew has such a devoted thread, following, and is still being tweaked and brewed for actively; I'm a sucker for shared narrative games. Good show, Rainy and Co.! Even though I'm not exactly familiar with the source materials (harem anime) it still strikes me as a fun game to try running as a rainy day one-shot for my live group, or to try out here on the forums!

It's that last part that actually drove me to comment: I'm interested in testing it out or seeing how it's been played, and don't have a good grounding in the genre. The system seemed interesting, so I ducked into a recruitment thread for a game (now running) to try and get hands-on experience, but I imagine it looks very different from the GM's side than to a totally new player.

So, I thought I'd ask for advice from folks who're clearly interested in the system. Do any of you have tips for creating a well-flowing episode story, or insights on mechanics/DCs to share? Is there an archived thread floating around of a finished game with this system as an example of it in action? Does this style of thing tend to end up leaning more to comedy or drama in practice? The examples in Rainy's masterpost ARE helpful, but more input never hurt!

The best advice I can give in this regard is simple: Watch harem anime. You will start to pick up on the trends and patterns, and will be able to design your own game from there. Some suggestions from my personal favorite harem series: Zero no Tsukaima (Familiar of Zero in english), Tenchi Muyo (other Tenchi series are good as well, but Muyo is my fav), Love Hina, Ai Yori Aoshi, Ah! My Goddess, Ah! My Buddah, Highschool DxD, and Testament of New Devil Sister (please note those last two have heavy action elements, so the harem side will need to be weeded out a bit)

[The TechnoGnome]

I mostly wanted to poke my head in and comment on the system itself! It's neat to see that a role-play heavy, rules-light homebrew has such a devoted thread, following, and is still being tweaked and brewed for actively; I'm a sucker for shared narrative games. Good show, Rainy and Co.! Even though I'm not exactly familiar with the source materials (harem anime) it still strikes me as a fun game to try running as a rainy day one-shot for my live group, or to try out here on the forums!

It's that last part that actually drove me to comment: I'm interested in testing it out or seeing how it's been played, and don't have a good grounding in the genre. The system seemed interesting, so I ducked into a recruitment thread for a game (now running) to try and get hands-on experience, but I imagine it looks very different from the GM's side than to a totally new player.

So, I thought I'd ask for advice from folks who're clearly interested in the system. Do any of you have tips for creating a well-flowing episode story, or insights on mechanics/DCs to share? Is there an archived thread floating around of a finished game with this system as an example of it in action? Does this style of thing tend to end up leaning more to comedy or drama in practice? The examples in Rainy's masterpost ARE helpful, but more input never hurt!

There aren't any actually completed archived threads around, but I'm currently GMing a game which is on it's second-to-last episode, and am an active player in two others, so I've got a few tips for you.

1. Players tend to optimize one or two of the four rolls, usually their strong roll and one other. Because of this, assuming you give three or four options most of the time, people will tend to gravitate towards what they can succeed at. Sounds obvious, but in practice it means that you need to mix up the number of options they have if you don't want constant success. And more importantly, you need to know what those rolls are for everybody so that you don't constantly screw people over by never giving them the option to do what they built their characters to do.

2. Due to the above, DCs tend to be higher than you would expect if you want to be challenging. For instance, on their 'good' rolls, a properly optimized character can hit a DC of 6 about 60% percent of the time, and a min-maxed character can pretty much auto win it. Thus, don't be afraid to go higher if you have people who can take it. D8 or even D10 can be challenging without being impossible, and truly min-maxed characters can even hit a D12 if the circumstances are right, though don't go higher than that unless your players can get +7 or +8 to their roll. Which leads into my next point...

3. Modifiers are powerful. Most powers only give +1 or +2 to a roll for a reason: because players can and will find a way to stack three or four of them together at once. Thus, if you're doling out bonus modifiers for whatever reason, never go above +1 without a really good reason. This goes double for team rolls, as the numbers on those can get truly ridiculous if enough people support the same person.

4. This game does its best work with somewhere between 4-6 players. My current game has 7 people, with 8 at its peak, and it can be a nightmare to deal with that many people sometimes, even on a forum, especially since there's one protagonist. Heck, in a game that large, you might want to have a second Protagonist people can go for, just to make things interesting. Though that has its own problems, and doesn't completely solve the original problem, only make it less pronounced. Which means...

5. NPCs are your friends, and theirs. With only one protagonist to go around, they aren't going to be able to pay attention to everyone all the time, and you certainly don't want them to, especially on rolls where people lose. As this is a role play heavy game though, you need people to interact with the non-protagonists. Teachers, siblings, friends, enemies, anyone that the PCs who aren't with the protagonists can talk to. It helps if the players have some characters in their bio you can bring in, but you should also have a couple of prominent recurring NPCs that people can bond with as well. And heck, you can even make them interested in one of the PCs if you want, since after all only one girl can win the heart of Protagonist-Kun. Just don't make the same mistake I did and make an NPC that's more interesting to the players than the protagonist, or the players in your game can lose their purpose for being involved, or worse, the plot can be derailed as it starts to revolve around the NPC rather than the protagonist.

6. The average episode has about 10 scenes in it, give or take a few. For faster paced games, you might want to cut this in half to five. On a forum, this game can take a long ass time, especially with avid role players, so you need to be careful not to let things drag on too long in a scene, but also make sure less active players get some time to shine as well.

7. This game is perfect for adding gimmicks. Things I've seen include supernatural games (which is a base gimmick), homebrew archetypes, randomly determining archetypes at creation, double protagonists, an amnesiac protagonist who is influenced by victorious PCs, and even one that has an audience and producer that could influence the characters and plot (though that last one didn't get very far, sadly). While this game can be tons of fun in a vanilla campaign like my own, the gimmicks can add a whole new spin on things, as well as help to differentiate your game from the others already in progress.

8. This game, for all the fun it has given, is not balanced. At all. There are archetypes and powers that are clearly superior, ones that absolutely suck, and ones that only have one good power and thus serve as Quirk fodder more than a full archetype. Watch out for any powers that can affect multiple rolls (School Queen, Connections, Elemental Affinity), have easy to fulfill guidelines (Shameless, Maiden's Garb, Terrifying Presence), allow auto wins (Cold Shoulder, Heir to the Dojo, Security Detail), and either allow rerolls or make sixes more likely to show up (Odd Affinity, Odd Roll, pretty much every Meganekko power). Make sure to keep an eye on how many uses they have left if limited use, and if they are a flat bonus make sure the players are able to justify their use in some way. For clothing based powers or ones reliant on easy to find NPCs, you might even want to throw in some kind of 'hitch' to keep them from being active all the time (school uniforms are a great and easy way to do this for a lot of powers, though a clever player could find a way to get around even that). Don't take the number of advantages a archetype has to be a balancing mechanic either, as the worst archetypes also happen to be the ones with only three or four advantages rather than five or six. As a GM, it will be a pain to deal with a mix of players who optimize and those who don't. For that reason...

8a. Actually, before I get into that, one more thing that needs to be said about balanced powers: Just as Planned is the worst goddamn power in the game. And I don't mean that in the sense that it is worthless. In fact, quite the opposite: mechanically, Just as Planned is probably one of the best powers in the entire game, because it allows a player to steal another player's opposed roll if they win, and there isn't a damn thing the other player can do to stop it other than intentionally lose the roll. Great for whoever is using it, as they can easily win with little to no effort on their part, but it absolutely infuriates players that are targeted by it. And even though the target is supposed to be declared in secret, in a forum game, people know who's the target when the power is used, because it is usually used when one player has an overwhelming advantage over everyone else. And the backlash is even worse if the power isn't declared where people can see it. Every single game I have seen it used in, it has stirred up drama and OOC fights between players constantly, to the point where I outright banned it in my game because I was sick of dealing with it. Until Rainy or someone else come up with a nerf for it, I would suggest you do the same in any games you run, or just let the player pick Less is More instead of it, as it does the same general thing, but in a way that doesn't come off as massively unfair for the target.

9. Consider giving people a second score for each episode they won, rather than judging based on VP, especially in longer games. VP tends to snowball, and in the two longer running games, the gap between the winners and the losers gets very noticeable the longer the game goes on. Using VP to judge who wins an episode, then using Episode Points to actually determine a victor in the end might alleviate things, or it might makes things worse. If I run another game after this one, that is what I will be doing, but since I haven't seen it fully implemented befor this suggestion might not be as good as it sounds on paper.

10. And finally, this game can be done well as both comedy and a drama, or even a dramady. However, if you do go for a more dramatic route, remember three things. Don't let drama whore characters constantly hog the spotlight to the point where other players don't get to do anything, don't let a player go darker than you or the group feel comfortable with, and be sure to have 'breather' episodes every once in a while where the stakes aren't so high and the drama can be out at the wayside for comedy (like a beach episode, or a camping one). This is especially important in longer games, as too much drama constantly piling up can exhaust players (and you) emotionally if there isn't some kind of release valve in place for you to open every once in a while. And as a counter point, don't be afraid to let a bit of drama happen in a lighter game once in a while either. Just don't let it get overwhelming if you don't want a genre shift to happen mid game.

There you go, ten tips for GMing a High School Harem game. This most certainly doesn't cover everything that could come up, but this is a crazy long post as is, and I covered what I consider to be the most important points you would need to know. I hope they help you if you decide to GM a game yourself. And remember: the most important rule for any game, GM or player, is to have fun!

[Zevox]

9. Consider giving people a second score for each episode they won, rather than judging based on VP, especially in longer games. VP tends to snowball, and in the two longer running games, the gap between the winners and the losers gets very noticeable the longer the game goes on. Using VP to judge who wins an episode, then using Episode Points to actually determine a victor in the end might alleviate things, or it might makes things worse. If I run another game after this one, that is what I will be doing, but since I haven't seen it fully implemented befor this suggestion might not be as good as it sounds on paper.

The main thought that I have about that one is that it could mean the game ends up decided well before it actually ends, or at least feeling that way with much more cause than using just VP. If one player does very well for the first few episodes of a 10-episode game and racks up the first three or so "episode points" before anyone else gets any, that's going to be pretty discouraging to the rest of the group, even if they technically still have a chance to win and the game has a ton of time left. If that same player reaches, say, 5 points by episode 7 or 8 and the other couple went to different people, then everybody knows that player mathematically has already won, even though there's another couple of episodes to go, which take a lot of actual game time.

In contrast, it's at least always theoretically possible to come back from a VP deficit until the final few scenes are upon you, even if it doesn't seem likely.

The best advice I can give in this regard is simple: Watch harem anime. You will start to pick up on the trends and patterns, and will be able to design your own game from there. Some suggestions from my personal favorite harem series: Zero no Tsukaima (Familiar of Zero in english), Tenchi Muyo (other Tenchi series are good as well, but Muyo is my fav), Love Hina, Ai Yori Aoshi, Ah! My Goddess, Ah! My Buddah, Highschool DxD, and Testament of New Devil Sister (please note those last two have heavy action elements, so the harem side will need to be weeded out a bit)

Just wanted to say: this isn't necessary. I'm currently playing in two games and have been involved in a couple of others, and have seen almost no harem anime. I did watch some Tenchi Muyo a long time ago when it was on Toonami, but remember very little of it outside of bare-bones basics of the most prominent characters. The game's plenty of fun even without familiarity with the genre that inspired it.

[Esprit15]

Only disagreement I have with what Tech said is I (personally) dislike having two protagonists in a game. It splits the focus a bit too much.

[Vexing]

I'll admit that I didn't expect this much to go over! Here are a few things that stood out:

3. Modifiers are powerful. Most powers only give +1 or +2 to a roll for a reason: because players can and will find a way to stack three or four of them together at once.

Is there really such a push to try and apply so many abilities at one time? I imagine the GM (me, in this example) would probably put their foot down if you were just trying to stack bonuses no matter their applicability or the context of the scene. If I'm right, some of this modifier stacking could be cut down just by detailing the context of the roll a little so someone doesn't have a entirely blank check to work with (no Physical Conflict in front of Teachers, for example). Or does that not go over well with players? It's something you briefly touched on in one of your later points, but I thought it was better asked here.

5. NPCs are your friends, and theirs. With only one protagonist to go around, they aren't going to be able to pay attention to everyone all the time, and you certainly don't want them to, especially on rolls where people lose. As this is a role play heavy game though, you need people to interact with the non-protagonists. Teachers, siblings, friends, enemies, anyone that the PCs who aren't with the protagonists can talk to. It helps if the players have some characters in their bio you can bring in, but you should also have a couple of prominent recurring NPCs that people can bond with as well. And heck, you can even make them interested in one of the PCs if you want, since after all only one girl can win the heart of Protagonist-Kun.

This seems like a really helpful thing to bear in mind, obviously, but it specifically makes me interested in the potential for branching paths/benefits. For example, a player that couldn't keep up with Protagonist-kun and the other girls/boys (failed a roll and was shut out of the next scene) may learn something potentially useful by interacting with the NPCs they're 'stuck' with. You wouldn't want to do this every time, or make any resulting offers of support or information too hefty, but I like the idea of unexpected advantages to chatting up the target's Best Friend-kun and getting some deeper insight.

Or, at the very least, it may be neat to have minor events go on outside the main plot (side character's romantic woes, family troubles, etc). Nothing's happening in a vaccuum, right?

8. This game, for all the fun it has given, is not balanced. At all. There are archetypes and powers that are clearly superior, ones that absolutely suck, and ones that only have one good power and thus serve as Quirk fodder more than a full archetype. Don't take the number of advantages a archetype has to be a balancing mechanic either, as the worst archetypes also happen to be the ones with only three or four advantages rather than five or six. As a GM, it will be a pain to deal with a mix of players who optimize and those who don't.

A fair and troubling point. Hopefully character creation and a good group dynamic might cut down on some of the more overt optimization differences; that'll be my hope, at least, since the game strikes me as being for shared narrative first, straight-up PvP coming in as a near second.

9. Consider giving people a second score for each episode they won, rather than judging based on VP, especially in longer games. VP tends to snowball, and in the two longer running games, the gap between the winners and the losers gets very noticeable the longer the game goes on. Using VP to judge who wins an episode, then using Episode Points to actually determine a victor in the end might alleviate things, or it might makes things worse. If I run another game after this one, that is what I will be doing, but since I haven't seen it fully implemented before this suggestion might not be as good as it sounds on paper.

The main thought that I have about that one is that it could mean the game ends up decided well before it actually ends, or at least feeling that way with much more cause than using just VP. If one player does very well for the first few episodes of a 10-episode game and racks up the first three or so "episode points" before anyone else gets any, that's going to be pretty discouraging to the rest of the group, even if they technically still have a chance to win and the game has a ton of time left. If that same player reaches, say, 5 points by episode 7 or 8 and the other couple went to different people, then everybody knows that player mathematically has already won, even though there's another couple of episodes to go, which take a lot of actual game time.

In contrast, it's at least always theoretically possible to come back from a VP deficit until the final few scenes are upon you, even if it doesn't seem likely.

...I'll admit that I thought scoring worked differently than I now see it's written. I'd thought that you tallied VP at the end of each episode and then declared a winner to the episode!

It looks like there are potential pitfalls to both forms of scoring. Purely stacking VP can be disheartening if you're the one(s) who're woefully behind without a clear way to catch up, Episode Scoring can prematurely call an end to the game if someone's a breakaway winner (and can't even be easily fixed with doubly weighted 'sodes, and the like). Perhaps there are ways to make it a closer contest, or at least offer opportunities for upsets in the running. Maybe everyone who scores above a certain threshold of VP (90% of possible points or something) can count the episode as a Win so there's more pressure overall? Just spitballing here. I don't even really have passing familiarity with the game in action.

Idle Thought: If I were to do that VP Threshold as my way of scoring, the player with the most VP would be compensated by getting the 'post-credits scene' (a post or paragraph) with the protagonist, or suggesting a theme to incorporate in the next episode. I like the idea of players getting some input on the shape of episodes to come.

Just wanted to say: this isn't necessary. I'm currently playing in two games and have been involved in a couple of others, and have seen almost no harem anime. I did watch some Tenchi Muyo a long time ago when it was on Toonami, but remember very little of it outside of bare-bones basics of the most prominent characters. The game's plenty of fun even without familiarity with the genre that inspired it.

That's a big relief, actually! While I'm sure Aleolus' suggestion has merit, I'm just not sure how much I really want to go digging through all these anime in the name of research, all to play a game that's supposed to be easy to pick up. I'm sure that not having a grounding in harem anime puts me at a disadvantage to other GMs in theory, but the general theme of the genre seems like it would be relatively easy to write for. After all, there's a fair number of players helping put the 'harem' in 'Highschool Harem'! That being said, I may take a raincheck and review one of those shows at some point. Exactly how cringe-worthy are these? Or are any of them humorously/intelligently written enough to transcend cheap fanservice?

Edit:

Only disagreement I have with what Tech said is I (personally) dislike having two protagonists in a game. It splits the focus a bit too much.

I agree; that seems like it'd be a little much to handle, especially for a new GM to the game. Might be almost as much trouble as having too many players to properly move through a scene.

[Lentrax]

Is there really such a push to try and apply so many abilities at one time? I imagine the GM (me, in this example) would probably put their foot down if you were just trying to stack bonuses no matter their applicability or the context of the scene. If I'm right, some of this modifier stacking could be cut down just by detailing the context of the roll a little so someone doesn't have a entirely blank check to work with (no Physical Conflict in front of Teachers, for example). Or does that not go over well with players? It's something you briefly touched on in one of your later points, but I thought it was better asked here.

Yes. Many players will. The mentality being that "The bigger my modifier is, the bigger my chance of success." There isn't anything wrong with it, and frankly, if you don't mid compensating for it with higher difficulties or altering the rolls available so people can't always apply all their modifiers on a roll, then by all means, go for it.

But, I just made an odd suggestion in a recruit thread that weirdly makes sense to me. Why don't we put a limit on all the advantages? Say three or four times an episode? It would make the advantages seem more like a character taking advantage of her(his/its/?) strengths, and less like passive, always applicable bonuses that are just there. I mean, honestly, I just have to slip it in that my band is in full stage costume for a school fair, and I have Kira Kira available for Allure rolls for the entire episode. But if it were changed to just a limited number of uses, then maybe I was in regular clothes all day and have a dramatic "rip my clothes off to reveal the stage costume underneath it" moment. Or I was in costume all day, but I just turn it up a notch to get that much more of the spotlight. Or basically anything other than, "I am in costume. +2 bonus."

Anyway, just another crazy idea from a crazy brain.

[Esprit15]

I'm mixed on that. On one hand, I totally support it, given that every single one of us in Tech's game tries to use their passive advantages at all times, and it gets kinda predictable. On the other hand, and maybe this is just because of episode length and/or PbP, limiting them feels like making those abilities less defining for the character. While it makes sense for some abilities (you can't go swinging weapons or flashing people every five minutes at school), others, like being good at academics, loose what little utility they had.

[Illven]

I'm mixed on that. On one hand, I totally support it, given that every single one of us in Tech's game tries to use their passive advantages at all times, and it gets kinda predictable. On the other hand, and maybe this is just because of episode length and/or PbP, limiting them feels like making those abilities less defining for the character. While it makes sense for some abilities (you can't go swinging weapons or flashing people every five minutes at school), others, like being good at academics, loose what little utility they had.

I'm totally against it. While I can understand limiting it's ability to be used in school, think about shameless.

Oh, it's the beach episode my time to shine.... Oh wait, I can only apply this 3 times this episode, and the principal does their best to make sure I never get to use it during school. Why'd I take this power that I can only use maybe 5 times this campaign.

[Lentrax]

Never said it was a good idea. But something really needs to be done. Because there are a lot of powers that just shouldn't be 24/7.

[Zevox]

Is there really such a push to try and apply so many abilities at one time? I imagine the GM (me, in this example) would probably put their foot down if you were just trying to stack bonuses no matter their applicability or the context of the scene. If I'm right, some of this modifier stacking could be cut down just by detailing the context of the roll a little so someone doesn't have a entirely blank check to work with (no Physical Conflict in front of Teachers, for example). Or does that not go over well with players? It's something you briefly touched on in one of your later points, but I thought it was better asked here.

Of course there is. Each player is trying to win, after all, so trying to get the best chance you can of gaining points on each roll is only natural. And honestly, with many of the good abilities in the game, it's not even a stretch to do so. Some are just always on (abilities tied to the clothes you're wearing, for instance), and many can be fairly easily activated just by writing your character's actions properly, or can always be applied regardless of circumstance but have limited uses per episode. Ones that are harder to use tend also to be the ones that many players just avoid taking - the logic being, if I'm not going to get to use this ability much and it's not giving a very big benefit (such as the ones that are actually limited to 1 or 2 uses per episode tend to), why have it at all?

I suspect specifically forbidding something like roughhousing in front a teacher wouldn't go over well, personally. I mean, it should be their decision whether their character is willing to do that or not, right? If the character is either dumb enough or just doesn't care enough about the consequences, they might. In which case they should end up getting disciplined somehow - but there you also run into the issue that you can't take that too far, or else you end up punishing the player for playing a character that is entirely legitimate within the framework of the game (indeed, even the default sort of character you get playing certain archetypes, such as the Sukeban).

...I'll admit that I thought scoring worked differently than I now see it's written. I'd thought that you tallied VP at the end of each episode and then declared a winner to the episode!

It looks like there are potential pitfalls to both forms of scoring. Purely stacking VP can be disheartening if you're the one(s) who're woefully behind without a clear way to catch up, Episode Scoring can prematurely call an end to the game if someone's a breakaway winner (and can't even be easily fixed with doubly weighted 'sodes, and the like). Perhaps there are ways to make it a closer contest, or at least offer opportunities for upsets in the running. Maybe everyone who scores above a certain threshold of VP (90% of possible points or something) can count the episode as a Win so there's more pressure overall? Just spitballing here. I don't even really have passing familiarity with the game in action.

Something to that effect might help a good deal, yeah - or perhaps instead of it being percentage-based, the top two or three scorers (depending on how many players there are) each get points, with maybe the person in 1st getting 2 or something to that effect.

I'm sure that not having a grounding in harem anime puts me at a disadvantage to other GMs in theory,

Fun fact: the GM of both games I'm currently in, one of which is the longest-running on the boards, has no background actually watching harem anime himself. (That being Illven.)

But, I just made an odd suggestion in a recruit thread that weirdly makes sense to me. Why don't we put a limit on all the advantages? Say three or four times an episode? It would make the advantages seem more like a character taking advantage of her(his/its/?) strengths, and less like passive, always applicable bonuses that are just there. I mean, honestly, I just have to slip it in that my band is in full stage costume for a school fair, and I have Kira Kira available for Allure rolls for the entire episode. But if it were changed to just a limited number of uses, then maybe I was in regular clothes all day and have a dramatic "rip my clothes off to reveal the stage costume underneath it" moment. Or I was in costume all day, but I just turn it up a notch to get that much more of the spotlight. Or basically anything other than, "I am in costume. +2 bonus."

Anyway, just another crazy idea from a crazy brain.

Hm, maybe, but it could be a double-edged sword. I'd tend to think that would make the advantages that are already limited-use look that much more appealing, since they tend to be a lot stronger than most of the unlimited ones. On the other hand, if you established different numbers of uses depending on the strength of the advantage, it could help - but that'd be a lot of work trying to figure out what the right number for each is. And giving some of the weaker ones a lot of uses wouldn't help, since the reason they're weak tends to be that they're hard to use often to begin with.

Also worth noting, it would add a lot of bookkeeping, with both the players and the GM trying to keep track of what's been used so nobody overuses an ability. That tends not to be as hard right now, when most characters will only have a few limited-use advantages, and many of them get only 1 use, but if everything has a limit, it multiplies fast.

Never said it was a good idea. But something really needs to be done. Because there are a lot of powers that just shouldn't be 24/7.

I do agree with that, though. A big one I'd point a finger at on that note are outfit advantages. I strongly suspect they were written assuming that most of them would be limited in use by the school having a uniform, but since many games here are set in American schools where that's not the case, they've become always-on bonuses by default. (Notice, for evidence, that the only such advantage that could be always-on in schools with a uniform, the Tomboy's Boyish Charm, gives only +1 to rolls, where the rest give +2.)

Also, Poker Face, School Queen, and Connections. Because sheesh, they can be an always-on +2 to everything if you can write in their activators in each scene, and that doesn't seem to be nearly as hard as I'd have expected when I first started playing. (Granted, I don't have much experience with School Queen, but I have a lot with Poker Face firsthand and Connections through watching another player, and School Queen seems at a glance like it at least wouldn't be harder to use than Connections most of the time.)

[Vexing]

I'm mixed on that. On one hand, I totally support it, given that every single one of us in Tech's game tries to use their passive advantages at all times, and it gets kinda predictable. On the other hand, and maybe this is just because of episode length and/or PbP, limiting them feels like making those abilities less defining for the character. While it makes sense for some abilities (you can't go swinging weapons or flashing people every five minutes at school), others, like being good at academics, loose what little utility they had.

Some are just always on (abilities tied to the clothes you're wearing, for instance), and many can be fairly easily activated just by writing your character's actions properly, or can always be applied regardless of circumstance but have limited uses per episode. Ones that are harder to use tend also to be the ones that many players just avoid taking - the logic being, if I'm not going to get to use this ability much and it's not giving a very big benefit (such as the ones that are actually limited to 1 or 2 uses per episode tend to), why have it at all?

I suspect specifically forbidding something like roughhousing in front a teacher wouldn't go over well, personally. I mean, it should be their decision whether their character is willing to do that or not, right? If the character is either dumb enough or just doesn't care enough about the consequences, they might. In which case they should end up getting disciplined somehow - but there you also run into the issue that you can't take that too far, or else you end up punishing the player for playing a character that is entirely legitimate within the framework of the game (indeed, even the default sort of character you get playing certain archetypes, such as the Sukeban).

It sounds like the easiest solution would be to have the players and the GM be more communicative about when certain Advantages are cleared for use--like Shameless having little utility in a traditional classroom setting, but having moments to shine during gym class or some such. Then they can reach an agreement when problems arise on a case-by-case basis; a little self-policing and compromise could go a long way towards ensuring it's not the same stacking of the same bonuses every time (lying every other word with Poker Face, relying on other students constantly for School Queen's trigger), while ensuring that players aren't feeling overly limited. I see the goal as having fun with the story--with winning as an additional bonus, rather than the main draw.

You're probably right about placing hard restrictions on player behavior, Zevox. So long as natural consequences are allowed and expected in the scope of the story, I imagine everything will work out; characters tend to grow when faced with consequence or punishment.

Something to that effect might help a good deal, yeah - or perhaps instead of it being percentage-based, the top two or three scorers (depending on how many players there are) each get points, with maybe the person in 1st getting 2 or something to that effect.

Precisely! Perhaps there might even be other ways to score points towards the ending, but I'll try not to get ahead of myself.

Fun fact: the GM of both games I'm currently in, one of which is the longest-running on the boards, has no background actually watching harem anime himself. (That being Illven.)

That's good news for me, then. Illven is in the game I put myself up for to get hands-on with the system--how long has your other game been running, Illven? I'd be happy to hear advice if you have it.

I took the opportunity over the weekend to chat up friends with more anime background in general, and I feel confident enough on the tropes to start drafting a guide for the first episode. I'll likely put up the Recruitment Thread for it in a few days time when I'm happy with it--I'm currently thinking of a sleepy, tradition-bound mountain town with a slight supernatural tint around the edges.

[Illven]

That's good news for me, then. Illven is in the game I put myself up for to get hands-on with the system--how long has your other game been running, Illven? I'd be happy to hear advice if you have it.

Let's see.

Jesus christ! Okay. Nearly 22 months..... I was thinking at most a year and a half.

Then 7 months.

Then less then a month.

I don't have a problem, what are you talking about.

[Esprit15]

And YYHC is barely half over. 24 days will take over 24 months.

[jamieth]

And YYHC is barely half over. 24 days will take over 24 months.

And that's for the first year. AFAIR, initial plan was to have it run for 7 in-game years, with the winner of every year either retiring their character, or suffering a break-up, and the next year starting with mostly the same cast, but new protagonist to pursue.

...yeah, I havwe nothing but admiration for Ilven for creating this, even though the "arms race" atmosphere drove me away eventually.

[Esprit15]

And that's for the first year. AFAIR, initial plan was to have it run for 7 in-game years, with the winner of every year either retiring their character, or suffering a break-up, and the next year starting with mostly the same cast, but new protagonist to pursue.

...yeah, I havwe nothing but admiration for Ilven for creating this, even though the "arms race" atmosphere drove me away eventually.

If it helps, one of the offenders is no longer present.

[jamieth]

If it helps, one of the offenders is no longer present.

You mean AA? I know, but... the damage is done, I'm afraid. I started Ilven's Random Mix-Up game, and, honestly, it was much the same rules-lawering for squeezing every tangentially-related passive on every roll.

[Esprit15]

You mean AA? I know, but... the damage is done, I'm afraid. I started Ilven's Random Mix-Up game, and, honestly, it was much the same rules-lawering for squeezing every tangentially-related passive on every roll.

Eh, fair enough. It's just in some of our blood. Best of luck, man.

[Illven]

...yeah, I havwe nothing but admiration for Ilven for creating this, even though the "arms race" atmosphere drove me away eventually.

I look at it, as proof to any game in the future I can show that I'm dedicated.

[Zevox]

And YYHC is barely half over. 24 days will take over 24 months.

Eh, it's slightly over 2/3s over. A bit more than midway through episode 16, with 8 more left after this.

Still, it was episode 12 when I joined last... August or September, I want to say? So, yeah, it can definitely be slow going.

[Aleolus]

That's a big relief, actually! While I'm sure Aleolus' suggestion has merit, I'm just not sure how much I really want to go digging through all these anime in the name of research, all to play a game that's supposed to be easy to pick up. I'm sure that not having a grounding in harem anime puts me at a disadvantage to other GMs in theory, but the general theme of the genre seems like it would be relatively easy to write for. After all, there's a fair number of players helping put the 'harem' in 'Highschool Harem'! That being said, I may take a raincheck and review one of those shows at some point. Exactly how cringe-worthy are these? Or are any of them humorously/intelligently written enough to transcend cheap fanservice?

The depends on your personal opinions. The older ones like Ai Yori Aoshi or Love Hina tend to have more subtle fanservice, without loosing much (if any) storyline. Newer ones frequently have more blatant and in-your face fanservice, but some. do still have good stories and character development. For instance, Highschool DxD is one which has copious levels of fanservice, but actually has a very interesting story to it and character development. Granted, you don't see a lot off that until you are a good chunk of the way through season 1, but it does get very in depth after that. I saw one guy describe that series as "Season 1: Issei being an incorrigable pervert. Season 2: Issei being a badass and an incorrigable pervert. Season3: Issei getting the girls because he's a badass and incorrigable pervert"

[Miraqariftsky]

Ahem.

To Rainy Knight and all those others who contributed to this game thus far: Kudos, y'all. Well done. Good work, keep it up. Looks to be quite an enjoyable piece, though take that with a grain of salt, as I'm as yet just a mere novice.

Koff. Though, that said, I do have to express a bit of surprise. This being strongly Japanese-inspired, and with the inclusion of the supernatural... where in tarnation are all the YOUKAI?

[Vexing]

Let's see.

Jesus christ! Okay. Nearly 22 months..... I was thinking at most a year and a half.

This is either inspiring or intimidating. I'll decide which at a later point, but either way it's a credit to your dedication for your players.

The depends on your personal opinions. The older ones like Ai Yori Aoshi or Love Hina tend to have more subtle fanservice, without loosing much (if any) storyline. Newer ones frequently have more blatant and in-your face fanservice, but some do still have good stories and character development.

Something to bear in mind if I pick one to watch, I suppose.

Koff. Though, that said, I do have to express a bit of surprise. This being strongly Japanese-inspired, and with the inclusion of the supernatural... where in tarnation are all the YOUKAI?

Assuming that 'youkai' means what Wikipedia says it means (many and varied supernatural monsters), then I think that having the general Celestial and Demonic Archetypes might go a long way to covering most of them, especially with the General Supernatural Advantages. That said, I've read the thread's backlog up to this point and it looks like more work was intended on the Supernatural Archetypes and Advantages in general, so if you wanted to make a pitch for something specific then you might as well.

[Esprit15]

Eldritch Abomination also works as a nice frame for a lot of magical, supernatural beings.

[Mutazoia]

I'm interested! I've got one myself I can post as well if people want

Well, if people are interested in home-brewing a few archetypes for the game, I'll throw down a couple I suggested a while back.

Spoiler: Imouto

Show

Imouto

"Protagonist-kun is MY Onii-chan!"



So cute it hurts: You are such a cute little sister...so cute people find it hard to stay mad at you for long. Once per scene you may make an allure roll in place of a conflict roll.

The power of Kawaii compels you: Spending a life time with your Onii-chan, you've learned what makes him tick (and you know where he hides his porn). Once per scene, gain +2 to either a skill or allure roll that directly targets your Onii-chan.

Hell hath no fury: You throw temper tantrums like Zeus throws lightening bolts, leaving a path of devastation in your wake. Once per scene you gain a +3 bonus to a conflict roll. However, great power comes with a great price....you are NOT cute when you are angry...your next allure roll is treated as an automatic 1. (In addition, you receive no bonus to your allure from any other advantages.)

Lost with out you: With your parents working over seas, it has fallen to you to take care of your Onii-chan. +2 to all skill rolls involving domestic skills. (This will stack with "Good Cook" and "Sweet Tooth" when cooking for the protagonist: Not only are you an excellent cook, but you know exactly how to make your Onii-chan's favorite dishes.)

Spoiler: Alien Girl

Show

Alien girl

Clueless: You just don't understand Earth culture, making you a bit gullible when it comes to that stuff. You believe just about anything anybody tells you when it comes to Earth custom's: -2 on skill rolls involving social situations or believing what another player tells you. However....sometimes your so naive it's cute: +2 to your next Allure roll.

Super Science!: You come equipped with a variety of high tech alien gadgets for all occasions....too bad they don't always work as advertised. Once per scene you may attempt to use Super Science to gain a bonus to any one skill roll. Roll 1D6 on the table below to determine the outcome:

1-2 Success! Your device functions as planned: gain +2 on your desired roll.
3-4 Failure! A whir and a puff of smoke...no further effect.
5-6 Catastrophic Failure! Your device fails with horrible (or at least horribly embarrassing) results related to the intended use.(i.e. The teleporter teleports all involved exactly 2 feet to the left, leaving their clothes behind, The Zit-remover gun turns Protagonist-kun into a girl for the rest of the day, etc) If the intent was to sabotage another girl, it sabotages YOU instead (in addition to any side effects). Your intended roll is counted as a 1.

Baka Power: They say big things come in small packages. Your alien physique makes you a LOT stronger than Earth girls. +2 to all Conflict rolls involving physical activities.

Daddy's little Princess: All alien school girls are Princesses of some Galactic Empire or other, and your no exception. Pick one advantage from the Ojou list (may not choose the same advantage twice if also playing an Ojou personality.)

[Illven]

Well, if people are interested in home-brewing a few archetypes for the game, I'll throw down a couple I suggested a while back.

Spoiler: Imouto

Show

Imouto

"Protagonist-kun is MY Onii-chan!"



So cute it hurts: You are such a cute little sister...so cute people find it hard to stay mad at you for long. Once per scene you may make an allure roll in place of a conflict roll.

The power of Kawaii compels you: Spending a life time with your Onii-chan, you've learned what makes him tick (and you know where he hides his porn). Once per scene, gain +2 to either a skill or allure roll that directly targets your Onii-chan.

Hell hath no fury: You throw temper tantrums like Zeus throws lightening bolts, leaving a path of devastation in your wake. Once per scene you gain a +3 bonus to a conflict roll. However, great power comes with a great price....you are NOT cute when you are angry...your next allure roll is treated as an automatic 1. (In addition, you receive no bonus to your allure from any other advantages.)

Lost with out you: With your parents working over seas, it has fallen to you to take care of your Onii-chan. +2 to all skill rolls involving domestic skills. (This will stack with "Good Cook" and "Sweet Tooth" when cooking for the protagonist: Not only are you an excellent cook, but you know exactly how to make your Onii-chan's favorite dishes.)

Spoiler: Alien Girl

Show

Alien girl

Clueless: You just don't understand Earth culture, making you a bit gullible when it comes to that stuff. You believe just about anything anybody tells you when it comes to Earth custom's: -2 on skill rolls involving social situations or believing what another player tells you. However....sometimes your so naive it's cute: +2 to your next Allure roll.

Super Science!: You come equipped with a variety of high tech alien gadgets for all occasions....too bad they don't always work as advertised. Once per scene you may attempt to use Super Science to gain a bonus to any one skill roll. Roll 1D6 on the table below to determine the outcome:

1-2 Success! Your device functions as planned: gain +2 on your desired roll.
3-4 Failure! A whir and a puff of smoke...no further effect.
5-6 Catastrophic Failure! Your device fails with horrible (or at least horribly embarrassing) results related to the intended use.(i.e. The teleporter teleports all involved exactly 2 feet to the left, leaving their clothes behind, The Zit-remover gun turns Protagonist-kun into a girl for the rest of the day, etc) If the intent was to sabotage another girl, it sabotages YOU instead (in addition to any side effects). Your intended roll is counted as a 1.

Baka Power: They say big things come in small packages. Your alien physique makes you a LOT stronger than Earth girls. +2 to all Conflict rolls involving physical activities.

Daddy's little Princess: All alien school girls are Princesses of some Galactic Empire or other, and your no exception. Pick one advantage from the Ojou list (may not choose the same advantage twice if also playing an Ojou personality.)

First critque, all archetypes should have 6 advantages.

[Mutazoia]

First critque, all archetypes should have 6 advantages.

These were designed much earlier in the system, when they only had 4 each

[Lentrax]

My critique, just looking at them is the phrase 'once per scene.' This makes what are otherwise cool abilities, just pretty broken. Like The Power of Kawaii Compels You. realistically speaking, this could affect anywhere from half to all of the rolls in the game, depending on how the Principal sets up the rolls, of course.

And Hell hath no fury...? Utterly broken. +3 flat to EVERY conflict roll. These powers should be limited to per episode usage.