Warhammer 40K Tactics

[Psychotic]

That's why it would never get fielded unless it's a game over 2000 points.

[Shelegelah]

For a change of pace, I just bought and painted my Daemon Prince for my Chaos Marines Dreadlord army. My god, it looks very nice, it took me a long time to drybrush black and chestnut ink onto the horns to make them look natural and disgusting... but I digress.

What I really want to know is what a good strategy is for keeping the thing alive long enough to get into range and stomp on some Necrons. It can be picked out behind almost anything, and I refuse to put any power but Doombolt on it, so the Lash is out of the question. That's reserved for my Levistus, my Sorceror-Lord. If only I could find a giant pair of wings...

[Wraith]

Basically, a Seer Council, all with Spears on Jetbikes [...]

I really like this idea, and it's something I've always wanted to try. It's just a shame that the entire thing would have to be converted from metal models - tricky to do, very expensive, and pure, unadulterated ball-ache if you goes wrong somewhere and you need to start over.

A boxed-set of plastic Warlocks, that's what we need...

What I really want to know is what a good strategy is for keeping the thing alive long enough to get into range and stomp on some Necrons. It can be picked out behind almost anything, and I refuse to put any power but Doombolt on it, so the Lash is out of the question. That's reserved for my Levistus, my Sorceror-Lord. If only I could find a giant pair of wings...

Finding wings shouldn't be hard - with just a glance on eBay, I have found a dozen examples for less than $5, ranging from Daemon to Tyranid and Dragon-style if you wanted something a bit different

Alternatively, what Codex are you using? If it's Codex Chaos Daemons then you could take the description of the Daemonic Flight Gift literally - it says "Great pinioned wings or unfathomable arcane power enable the Daemon...". Flight, with no wings needed.
If CSM, then we need to think harder as the wording is deliberately different. Daemonic Speed might work - count him as Cavalry and therefore he gets a 12" charge?

[Mc. Lovin']

I have to ask what the point of Sky-Rays are.

In the last game I played he did really badly. The markerlights hit occasionally giving me 1 S8 hit on the guy. Now I'm pretty sure I'd prefer a high chance of a strength 10 hit than whatever I got then. Also his missile turret got taken out by weapon destroyed half way through the game, so that was lame =/

[YPU]

The point of the sky ray is not that is cant fire its own missiles, but that others can. Tau have quite a few units that aren’t very dangerous on their own and have infiltrating deep strike or scout rules. Most of those units can or have marker lights. Thus they can combine with the skyray to dish out damage to those units the enemy keeps behind his main line. (cant give examples of those myself, but I’m sure there are.

[Lorn]

Spoiler

Show

The Tau essentially formed a gunline in two buildings, with a squad of Fire Warriors and a Broadside in each one. Lurking behind the buildings were a Skyray and a Hammerhead. One of the buildings also had a whole bunch of gun drones and a small unit of Vespids.

The Sentinels mostly failed in their goal of getting up close to the Tau and burning them out of the building. This was mostly as a result of the enemy shooting. I attempted to run them up to the right flank of the Tau, going between a building at my end of the board and the board edge itself.

The Sentinels were shot to bits before they got close enough to properly deploy flamers. They did have a chance to toast some vespids, but by the time they reached the enemy building, one Sentinel was left and it had lost its flamer. It did have a chance to charge the damaged skyray on the rear armour, but any Sentinel could do that.

That's not to say that the Hellhounds fared much better. One of them was nailed by a railgun early in the game, and the other burned four Tau off the top story of a building before getting destroyed as well. All in all, it wasn't a good day for AP4 template weapons.

I had a pretty unlucky time of it, and although I cleared out the more full of the two Tau buildings, in the end the Tau cleared me out of the objective building. I believed we carried on playing for several more turns than we were supposed to, so technically I should have won, but all in all it was a pretty bad day for my Imperial Guard.

I've yet to have a go against Tyranids, and really I need more data before I can write the Sentinels off entirely. A lesson was learned, though: blue sentinels need cover badly.

You'll get that problem with them - and any other light walker - you cannot assault a shooty army with them. They'll get blown to bits. They're MUCH better against assaulty armies (or units) but you do kind of need to keep them safe behind cover - then they jump out and you eat BBQ'd kroot that night.

Having said that, they're fairly good as a suicide unit with drop infantry in theory - as long as you can get close enough to a tightly packed unit, of course. Kind of a 50/50 chance, but you're risking 120 points for three of them, that could in theory destroy an entire IG command squad in one turn - decent for high points games. Cut out the heart and the body will die. Or, well, run.
As I said though, this is theoretical - not tried it (yet.)

[Psychotic]

I really like this idea, and it's something I've always wanted to try. It's just a shame that the entire thing would have to be converted from metal models - tricky to do, very expensive, and pure, unadulterated ball-ache if you goes wrong somewhere and you need to start over.

A boxed-set of plastic Warlocks, that's what we need...

I'd be happy with just Aspect Warriors in plastic. When it comes to any sort of modeling, pewter is the enemy.

[Eldan]

Pewter is also my enemy when just putting models together. I never got the arms of my scorpions to really fit.

[Mc. Lovin']

The point of the sky ray is not that is cant fire its own missiles, but that others can. Tau have quite a few units that aren’t very dangerous on their own and have infiltrating deep strike or scout rules. Most of those units can or have marker lights. Thus they can combine with the skyray to dish out damage to those units the enemy keeps behind his main line. (cant give examples of those myself, but I’m sure there are.

So combined with either Pathfinders or Stealthsuits they'll be good. Ok, but they cant fire they're own stuff? I didn't know that ... (Sorry Z-Axis :P) but what's the point in them having networked markerlights if they cant fire their own missiles?

[Kane]

So combined with either Pathfinders or Stealthsuits they'll be good. Ok, but they cant fire they're own stuff? I didn't know that ... (Sorry Z-Axis :P) but what's the point in them having networked markerlights if they cant fire their own missiles?

Wut?

I liked the idea of having a Skyray in my army just because of the fact that they're networked marker lights. (Well, and they're two, but details.)

Networked makerlight
A networked markerlight is a specialized version of the standard system, but it is larger and less common. Unlike a normal markerlight, the operator's own unit may benefit from its use. It is fired before the remainder of the unit fires. All other rules given for the basic markerlight apply. For example, a Marker Drone is equipped with a networked markerlight, meaning that models in the same unit may expend counters placed as a result of it's own shooting.

[/codex-fu]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though. I haven't played a real game yet. (Though I've run one for my friends.)

[Shelegelah]

Finding wings shouldn't be hard - with just a glance on eBay, I have found a dozen examples for less than $5, ranging from Daemon to Tyranid and Dragon-style if you wanted something a bit different

Alternatively, what Codex are you using? If it's Codex Chaos Daemons then you could take the description of the Daemonic Flight Gift literally - it says "Great pinioned wings or unfathomable arcane power enable the Daemon...". Flight, with no wings needed.
If CSM, then we need to think harder as the wording is deliberately different. Daemonic Speed might work - count him as Cavalry and therefore he gets a 12" charge?

Right now I'm using the Chaos Space Marine Codex... So it is a bit harder. Ebay is a good option, I'll admit. But what you said about Daemonic Speed... I dont see it mentioned in my CSM Codex at all, so I'm presuming it's in the new Daemons? Also, does anyone know when they'll be remaking the Codex and/or Chaos Models? (I'm not sure when the last time they updated them was, it may have been extremely recent for all I know.) Thanks.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Are the conscripts worth using in the game? Having a mass of 20-50 cheap soldiers who can't seem to be able to hit anything and run away with the slightless "boo" doesn't seem like the best idea ever. What do you think about it? What's to do with a conscript army?

Except off course if you use them to fight orcs with the "Xenos hater" doctrine. Then they will chop orcs down pretty easily.

[Selrahc]

What's to do with a conscript army?

Put them near a safe(ish) command squad, which nullifies the leadership problem.

Use the large numbers to overcome the low hit rate, and get them to hold up anyone who gets up close. 50 nearly unbreakable(Leadership ten plus a reroll) junk troops can really wreck the day of a Bloodthirster, Demon Prince, Carnifex, Dreadnaught, Wraithlord or other big gribbly, who could otherwise be smashing command squads or eating tanks, but would instead be killing 2 or 3 conscripts per turn. And the conscripts might get lucky and take a few wounds off the gribbly.

But what you said about Daemonic Speed... I dont see it mentioned in my CSM Codex at all, so I'm presuming it's in the new Daemons?

Its in the previous Chaos codex, back when you had a crazy armoury which let you make loads of crazy comboes.

it may have been extremely recent for all I know

Yep. It was about a year ago. It'll be another few years before they update it again. I think its the begining of 2011 that its scheduled for, but that might be wrong.

[Wraith]

But what you said about Daemonic Speed... I dont see it mentioned in my CSM Codex at all, so I'm presuming it's in the new Daemons?

Its in the previous Chaos codex, back when you had a crazy armoury which let you make loads of crazy comboes.

Yeah that's right - my bad. I picked up the wrong book and read the wrong bit

It was pretty cruel, in the previous edition - as a friend of mine sometimes demonstrated, giving a monstrous creature a 12" flying move, then a 12" charge and the Mark of Khorne made for an unhappy first turn on my part!

[YPU]

So combined with either Pathfinders or Stealthsuits they'll be good. Ok, but they cant fire they're own stuff? I didn't know that ... (Sorry Z-Axis :P) but what's the point in them having networked markerlights if they cant fire their own missiles?

They can fire their own marker lights. (that’s the point of being networked indeed) But its not the real purpose of the thing. It would simply be stupid if it wouldn’t have markerlights and thus wouldn’t be able to fire its own main weapon. But their real purpose is that of a power-up for other units. It is really fire support.

[Shelegelah]

It was pretty cruel, in the previous edition - as a friend of mine sometimes demonstrated, giving a monstrous creature a 12" flying move, then a 12" charge and the Mark of Khorne made for an unhappy first turn on my part!

My god, a close combat beast crashing into the lines on the first turn? I may have to rustle up an old CSM codex just for the sheer brutality of that... Looks like I'll have to nab some wings off ebay for my Daemon Prince in the meantime. I also just ordered a Greater Daemon of Slaanesh, which fits the fluff of my army perfectly. They're really big on the whole summoning of the dark allies thingy, seeing as they're led by a Sorcerer. And for a relatively cheap point cost, I'm fairly happy.

By the by, does anyone else think that Sorcerer's are just way better than Lords? I just get way more utility out of them with their healthy mix of ranged and melee abilities. Very versatile.

[Selrahc]

I'm pretty sure you could only use one special movement type, either speed or flight, or steed, or bike. Not some combination of them.

You could still get first turn charges though, since Speed gave you fleet of foot, which could net you 24" of movement. Far more reliable though was to infiltrate someone with speed.

[Tren]

A question for Wraith and any other Eldar players, what's your opinion of the Falcon in 5th edition? For tanks I've currently got one wave serpent and one fire prism, and I'm looking to add another. Given the loss of it's nigh invulnerability, I'm not sure the falcon is really worth the points anymore. The pulse laser isn't bad, but compared to getting another prism for the same points seems a little lackluster (especially considering the synergy with my existing prism).

And with the changes to close combat, a 5-6 man squad of harlies or banshees have lost most of their effectiveness as surgical strike teams, making the falcon a useful transport only for fire dragons.

Maybe I'm not considering something though, does anyone have any thoughts on how the falcon can still be effective in 5th, and if it's worth taking it over another fire prism?

[Wraith]

I have to admit, the difference between a Fire Prism and a Falcon in 5th Edition seems to be entirely down to who you are fighting against. As a transport vehicle you're virtually always better off with a Wave Serpent, and as a Heavy Weapon it's entirely down to whether you prefer a Heavy 1, Large Temple or a Heavy 2 Lance.

Do want to reliably hit and kill 2 MEQ models with a Falcon, or sporadically hit a larger number of lesser creatures with the Prism? That's probably what it'll come down to, I think.

Admittedly my army contains no skimmers other than the platforms upon which I carry D-Cannons, and I would recommend Reapers or a Wraithlord if you were struggling to decide upon a Heavy option.
If you're really, really keen on a Tank, then the Falcon seems to be very much the 'middle child' that I would take in a Tournament if I wasn't sure what I'd be facing next, rather then gamble on either a Serpent or Prism.

I hope that's at least a little help, as vague as it sounds. I simply don't value Tanks as highly as a lot of people, and would rather take a Squad that can more easily find cover and take more than 1 lucky shot before it's annihilated and out of play altogether.

[Eldan]

Ok, as an Eldar player that one really interests me...
I haven't had a chance to get my hands on a 5th ed rulebook at all, because they are damn rare around here. The shop had two copies, which were both sold on the first day to people I don't know. So, what's the change influencing falcons?

[Psychotic]

Ok, as an Eldar player that one really interests me...
I haven't had a chance to get my hands on a 5th ed rulebook at all, because they are damn rare around here. The shop had two copies, which were both sold on the first day to people I don't know. So, what's the change influencing falcons?

Hits are no longer considered an automatic glance if the skimmer moves 12 or more inches. Also, defensive weapons are now Str 4 and lower. Back in the day, a Falcon with Holo-fields could move 12", unload a Scatter Laser, a ShuriCannon and a Pulse Laser and only have a 1/36 chance of being shot down.

[Eldan]

It took me 3 minutes to calm down enough to not post a post that consisted entirely of asterisks. Damn. I loved my 1/36 chances.

Hmm. Is a holofield still worth it now? It probably is. But suddenly it seems expensive, instead of must have.

[Bryn]

On the other hand, there are cover saves for vehicles in 5th ed, and a Fast skimmer that moves flat out (13-24") gets a 4+ cover save, which might negate it entirely. In addition, if a glancing hit is scored on any vehicle, it has no chance at all to destroy it unless it's an AP1 weapon. So skimmers aren't entirely vulnerable in the new edition.

It is interesting to note the change in the max speed of Fast vehicles - now they can only move 18" unless they're a skimmer or on a road. This means the thing I've been plotting to do for a while (mounting all my Command Squads in Centaurs, loading them out with flamers, tank-shocking a whole bunch of Gaunts and then getting out the marshmallows) is sadly trickier to pull off now.

[Wraith]

I agree with you Z-Axis - getting a cover save is a good trade-off, and still being able to move faster than everything else is hardly a bad thing either. Eldar players had it too good for too long, I think - massive move distances, lots of very good weapons and Nigh Invulnerability to boot really wasn't fair, for what we were paying for.

I mean, who do we think we are? Necrons?

Similarly for Eldan: Skimmers are now also hit on 4+ in close combat, rather then needing 6's. Again, something I think is a good idea because it effects all skimmers of all races, rather than just handicapping Eldar, and means that they're no longer impervious to Close Combat armies.

Personally however, all of these such grievances are forgiven because the rules for ramming other vehicles have returned, and Eldar Skimmers are suddenly the best at something else in the game!
You get +1 strength for each 3" the vehicle moves before it makes contact with the target (so 24" = s8), +1 for being a Tank, and +1 for each point of armour above 10 for a total of +2 on a Falcon.
Who else do you know that is STILL very hard to take down, thanks to a holofield and the new "glancing hits can't destroy the vehicle" rules, and even if you blow all of it's weapons off it can still deliver a s11 (technically at least - let me have my fun here!) hit on an enemy vehicle in order to go out in a blaze of glory?

Not a mainstay tactic, granted, but still a lot of fun!

[Kane]

I mean, who do we think we are? Necrons?

Funny you should mention that... I loaned a friend $20 on Friday to bump him up to the $218-ish he needed for the Necron Warrior Phalanx he wanted, fool that I am.

Anyway, I'm not going to be fighting him soon; in addition to 1500 points of Necrons taking time to assemble, he also swiped all the paint and glue from my house while I was working on Sunday and I'm going to have to get it back before I can finish off my tau.

But, to finish up more concisely, how the HELL do I fight necrons with Tau? [His resources are limited to what came with the set. No tomb spiders, for instance.]

[Eldan]

Hmm. We could boost that Falcon thing further with additional engines. (No clue how they were named in english. I have an english codex, but only the german one lying around here)

[tribble]

My brother has a tau codex, so I can do some mathamancy to tell you what to shoot at which unit, but I would need stats on the necrons to do so, specifically what he can get out of a phalanx. my first thought, knowing that Instant death negates the We'll be Back rule, is to abuse railguns and rail rifles. if you go for the bare minimum on core, you can take a broadside battlesuit or a sniper team to a 500 point game. I also would need to know what size games you intend to play.

[Wraith]

We could boost that Falcon thing further with additional engines.

You mean the Vectored Engines - The ones that mean you make a forced landing when Immobilised, instead of just exploding horribly? They have their uses, but if you're unlucky enough to also lose the turret (quite likely, if you're already a sitting duck, or ae enough of a priority to be shotat in the first place) then all you're left with is a shuriken catapult that can't move. Depending on what your army wants to do, of course, I personally would prefer to let it die and spend the points on something else, like an extra Exarch or something.

The Phalanx contains:
1 Monolith
1 Necron Lord
6 Destroyers
48 Necrons

...Just in case anyone was wondering.

For Tau, the solution is pretty simple - shoot everything with Railguns and/or Ion Cannons. The former cancels out their I'll Be Back special rule by causing Instant Death, and the latter has a respectable amount of shots at good strength and denying him a Save.

Target his Destroyers first, so that everything else has to foot-slog across the table while you spend the next couple of turns whittling away his Necron Warriors until he's forced to Phase out. Don't worry about the Monolith unless it Deep Strikes right in the middle of your lines, in which case the Railguns are more than enough to take it on. You have a 1/3 chance of getting a penetrating hit, so a group of 3 Broadsides should be fine for the task.

Shoot the Fast stuff so that he can't attack you, then shoot the important stuff so that he has to concede. For all the fear they cause, Necrons are probably slightly easier to beat than an ordinary MEQ army.

[Tren]

Hmm. We could boost that Falcon thing further with additional engines. (No clue how they were named in english. I have an english codex, but only the german one lying around here)

That'd be Star Engines, and unfortunately as per the FAQ the 12'' star engine move goes on the shooting phase, and so can't be used during a tank shock/ramming A case where the rules and logic don't exactly mesh.

But at the same time like Wraith pointed out already, by RAW holofields still apply even when you ram someone so that's one logic v. rules in our favor

For skimmers in general, I'm a little mixed. I started playing pretty much the week 5th ed came out, so I never got to experience the fun of indestructible falcons, but I understand why they needed to be nerfed. In 5th The 4+ cover save is cool, and being able to shoot more weapons while moving is pretty sweet too.

I just wish that eldar fast skimmers, as the supposed height of ancient battlefield technology functioned better for delivering our squishy assault troops, but that might not be as much of an edition thing. It'd be nice at the very least if you could turbo-boost the round a unit embarks on a transport.

[Soups]

*pops back into existence*

Hello. I just recently got back into that wonderful money pit known as Warhammer. I used to play fantasy Empire, but my college buddies got me hooked into 40k. So, being the shrewd college student I am, I bought the new battle chest, assault on black reach. That, and having played a demo game, I find the marines suitable to my playing style, for now. (tyranids always held my fancy, when I would glance at the codex).

So I was wondering, what the general consensus on a playing style for the marines are. I have looked at the Blood Angels codex, and they intrigue me. Being strapped for cash, I really don't wan to drop too much (ha ha) money right away without knowing jack.

So, what is generally the best strategy? from looking at 5th ed codex, it seems the marines are a steady advance army that wants to get into assault range, with their nice assault guns, then start smacking faces. Especially the terminators. Or am I wrong? are they more of a ranged army? the sniper scouts look nice, but the blood angels don't seem to have scouts with snipers, and it seems inevitable that assault happens.

thanks for any advice in advanced.