Warhammer 40K Tactics

[Justyn]

And this way armies can be updated with new units and different stats without us having to buy an entirely new big book each time that happens. Really, unless your planning on playing many armies it saves you money in the end they do it this way.

Did anybody have a chance at the new space marine codex? A guy at a local hobey store had a bad quality printout of it, I assume illegal. Things have changed, big time.

I have access to the army lists; drastic changes are not afoot, but there are some changes:

• Chapter Masters have gone up fifty points, but gain a one time use Orbital Bombardment ability and may lead Honour Guards. Marneus Calgar (250 points by himself) lets you use three Honor Guards that don't count as HQ choices.
• Librarians and Chaplains can no longer lead command squads.
• Librarians are both more and less expensive now: they get two powers for free, but unless they have been upgraded to an Epistolary, which costs 50 points with no other increase to stats, they can only use of of them a turn.
• Most of the old powers for librarians are replaced, a couple are still here: "Storm of the Emperor" is now "Smite" and is assault 4 rather than assault 1.
• Terminator Command Squads no longer exist (I planned on using them, too...); and normal command squads are capped at four, one of which is always an Apothecary, and all of them can ride bikes.
• The Master of the Forge is a new HQ choice who has the option of using a conversion beamer; and if you use him, you can use three types of dreadnoughts as elites or heavy support.
• You now choose what kind of missiles that all the kinds of missile launchers fire when you fire them rather than at the start of the game; I think that this is in the main rule book, but I really like this change.
• For tactical squads, Flamers, Heavy Bolters, Multi-meltas, and Missile Launchers are all free to upgrade to, while Meltaguns and Plasma Cannons only cost 5 points, Lascannons are down to 10, and Plasma Rifles are unchanged.
• The Legion of the Damned is back.
• Servitor squads are larger now, but only two of them can have guns and combat servitors are gone.
• I cannot find any limit on the number of Venerable Dreadnoughts, but they cost 165 points a piece now, rather than 125.
• I do not have access to the full rulebook, so I might be wrong on this one, but I cannot find any mention of traits.

These are the major changes, almost everything got some changes, but nothing really got overhauled. I kinda dislike the removal of Terminator Command Squads, but I can see why they did it: under 4th edition rules, you could possibly field an army with 52 terminators.

[onasuma]

The side box on that you are allowed to rename special characters and use them in your own chapter even mixing different specials from different chapters is especially interesting.

We can do that? Pedro! You will be mine after all!

[YPU]

Yea, I now have the thing at hand now myself and indeed you can. Page 127 has the box. Its kind of vague, the writing style isn’t really official sounding, but as it is in the rule book I assume it is. Says you can field heroes from different chapters in the same army, as this has happened often enough. And you may field them as heroes of other chapters, including those made up by yourself. All you need to make sure of is that your opponent knows what is what. So if I understand this correctly the special characters are kind of “stereotypes” and can be used as an equal type of character of a different chapter. It makes sense with the tank commander and the scout commander, the master librarian, the others a little les but I kind of look forward to be able to field a two powerfist with guns on it commander and not need him to be ultramarine.

@^ and pedro also gives you a slot free honour guard (still cost you points)

[onasuma]

Wow, thats even more fitting for my marines. With the whole, there are two of everything, one shooty, one stabby kind of idea going on.

[Selrahc]

These are the major changes, almost everything got some changes, but nothing really got overhauled. I kinda dislike the removal of Terminator Command Squads, but I can see why they did it: under 4th edition rules, you could possibly field an army with 52 terminators.

Um... so?

That was my basic army. Two 5 man tactical squads with heavy weapons, then everything else was just commanders in terminator armour and terminators.

Now that the deathwing are lame*, that was my basic method of playing a terminator army(Which I've had since early on in third edition). I guess now I can't even use normal space marines to play it

It's not like it was particularly effective. Terminator armies are really fragile due to their low numbers, and they aren't putting out all that much firepower.

*Deathwing are lame because you can only have five man squads of terminators. In that squad can only be one special weapon. Their leader must be a fairly lacklustre, uncustomizable special character. Plus, even with that special character you can actually only play 45 terminators... so less than in a space marine army. Breaks my playstyle, doesn't really give any benefits.

[Da King]

Just played a game against Dark Angels, 1500 pts of Imperial Guard allied with 1000 pts of tau against them. First Turn assault by them is devastating when you have a 2500 point army with no units that can hold the line if they get attacked. How can this possibly be countered? 3 Leman Russ Battle tanks firing all weapons were not able to take out the 15 terminators and ten bikes in front of them. Oh well, the game ended by the second turn with most of my army ripped to shreds, minus 2 Battle tanks, a command squad, and a mortar squad. The tau player I was allied with did no better, he probably had about 10 fire warriors and his commander left on the board. The worst part was that this was only the first wave of assaults, there were still around 4 combat squads of marines about to attack in Land Raiders and Rhinos. Most of My army was destroyed before it even got to fire a single weapon.

So, how can I possibly stop a Deathwing Assault?

[Psychotic]

Actually, I find that the most effective way of killing termies is by forcing them to make lots of saves. I aim every infantry gun in my army at each squad until that squad is dead. Make sure it is dead to the man, since a single model can tie up a squad in close combat.

The anti-armor should be dedicated to just that - killing armor. Aim those Battlecannons at Land Raiders, Vindicators, and Predators.

[YPU]

I wonder if there will be new dreadnought kit, since the auto canon and others are now in the standard rules, tough this might simply be to accommodate the forge world models.
There will be a ironclad dread box of course. I think it has already been made clear that there will be models for the different types of veterans. Only somehow is think that the two types of veterans might be in the same box. (something GW would do) the new canon will be a new set, the new land raider and land speeder the same.

[onasuma]

Nope. No new dread on release, and the vets are in seperate boxes:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefr...385&orignav=10
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefr...391&orignav=10

[Lorn]

The anti-armor should be dedicated to just that - killing armor. Aim those Battlecannons at Land Raiders, Vindicators, and Predators.

Battle cannons are also extremely effective against normal power armour - generally a 2+, no save, autokill for a Marine. They're ordnance as well - thus fully capable of taking out entire squads worth about as much as the tank in one turn.

So, how can I possibly stop a Deathwing Assault?

To be honest, I've always preferred using a really, really fast unit/infiltrating (Eversor) Assassin to take out tanks or heavy armout (ie, Termies.) Although, with the Eversor, it's a better idea to go for entire command squads.

1-Infiltrate 18" away
2-Move 6" towards target
3-Assault 12" towards target
4-Politely inform opponent you have 4+D6 attacks, all wounding on a 4+ or better, and allowing no armour saves, and your initiative is probably vastly higher than his.
5-????
6-Profit.

Then move onto the armour, meltabomb it, or just blow it up with tanks while the Eversor destroys heavy weapons... as a Guard player, you can take Daemonhunter allies.

Let me put it this way:

One Inquisitor lord can in fact output more fire from his squad of three BS4 heavy bolters and one souped up BS5 heavy bolter than most of the squads in your army, if not all, and makes an excellent bodyguard for your command squad/centre of your firebase. If you use a split army, ie, deploying half on each side of the board, make your opponent really think about what he's going for - deploy the Lord with the side that doesn't have the Morale-inducing command squad. Using an Inquisitor lord opens up the ability to take assassins, Daemonhosts, anything really.

[YPU]

Aarg, now I need to get cutting on my captain since the combat shield is not available to them (or am I missing something?)

[onasuma]

@ /\: considering they get a 4+ inv for free, id just leave it and say its a sheild generator or something.

[YPU]

Dho, it could be part of artificer armor, your right. The 4+ inv, is from the iron halo they have.

Im pretty sure that tough the model looks cool right now its not optimal at all. Combi-flamer, power fist? I don’t think that’s the best way for a captain so I think I’m going to buy the commander box soon. And perhaps a second command squad box purely for the bits.

EDIT: No new dreadnought? Lol. So the box wont include the default weapon? (multi melta)

[onasuma]

It'll increase the sales of black reach though.

[YPU]

I should realy keep my eyes open better, the command squad can have combat shields and combi-flamer and power fist. I have a standard and a champion that leaves one veteran to be equipped with them thus making that model part of my command squad, nice.

So back to planning my force, what makes for a nicely rounded captain equipment wise?

[Wraith]

EDIT: No new dreadnought? Lol. So the box wont include the default weapon? (multi melta)

No new Dreadnought on release - as in, not immediately when the Codex comes out.

The Ironclad Dreadnought is on it's way soon, however. The rumours are that they are AV13 and instead of a Hurricane Bolter/Close Combat weapon, they can take a pair of anti-vehicle close combat weapons; a chainfist (s10 +2d6 penetraton) and/or a seismic hammer (+1 on the vehicle/building damage table). And by the looks of it, they can carry HK Missiles to boot.

I personally think that a couple of these bad boys in Drop Pods are an excuse to start a Space Marine Army in their own right, which is exactly what I think I'll be doing if any of the above is true.

So back to planning my force, what makes for a nicely rounded captain equipment wise?

I always liked: Articifer Armour, Iron Halo, Combi-weapon, Master-Crafted Power Weapon.
The Armour and Halo put him almost on par with a Terminator, meaning that if you want to he can deep strike and keep his own in the Squad, or just be given a Jump Pack and make the best use of his weaponry if you prefer.
I usually give him a Combi-Flamer and Deep Strike him with a Squad of Assault Troops in order to clear out opponents behind cover, but he's perfectly capable of hunting characters or vehicles too, depending on what you prefer (combi-plasma or combi-melta, respectively).

No doubt every Space Marine Player on the planet can argue against me and give you reasons why theirs is better, of course, but this one has the right sort of heroic attitude that I expect of my Commanders.

[Da King]

Okay, I found out exactly why his Deathwing Assault was so effective. He was cheating or misreading a rule horribly, which let him move his bikes, THEN call in ALL of his Terminators, who assaulted after deepstriking. There should be absolute no problem countering this now that I found out how the rule works. Good thing he left his codex at my house.

[First Speaker]

No new Dreadnought on release - as in, not immediately when the Codex comes out.

The Ironclad Dreadnought is on it's way soon, however. The rumours are that they are AV13 and instead of a Hurricane Bolter/Close Combat weapon, they can take a pair of anti-vehicle close combat weapons; a chainfist (s10 +2d6 penetraton) and/or a seismic hammer (+1 on the vehicle/building damage table). And by the looks of it, they can carry HK Missiles to boot.

Confirmed; they've also got heavy flamers, can take grenade launchers a la Land Raider Crusader, and can. Basically, awesome, and I too am considering a 6 dreadnought in drop pods army.

[YPU]

oh and the ironclads have the move trough cover rule.

[Destro_Yersul]

No doubt every Space Marine Player on the planet can argue against me and give you reasons why theirs is better, of course, but this one has the right sort of heroic attitude that I expect of my Commanders.

Not all of us. I always used a Chaplain, because fearless assault marines who can re-roll misses on the charge are AWESOME. And I gave them furious charge using traits. Of course, those are out the window now that there's a new codex, which I refuse to buy for two reasons only:

1: Never have time to play any more.
2: I despise the new layout with the fury of the fires of ten million suns, and wish to kill whoever designed it with fire. And dakka. And more fire.

[Tren]

Okay, I found out exactly why his Deathwing Assault was so effective. He was cheating or misreading a rule horribly, which let him move his bikes, THEN call in ALL of his Terminators, who assaulted after deepstriking. There should be absolute no problem countering this now that I found out how the rule works. Good thing he left his codex at my house.

Yeah, major foul. Unless you're Vanguard there's no assaulting on the round you deepstrike. They do automatically come in on turn one, however I'm fairly sure they still have to come in at the beginning of the turn which means no bikes moving a teleport homer down your throat.

[SolkaTruesilver]

By the way, Z-Axis, I just received my order of 6 heavy weapon teams (6x 2-man team, not 6x box of Heavy weapon, hehe) and I was wondering what should I build with them? I decided to go first with Autocannons for a battery, and spread some Lascannons among my shock troopers. Or you think I should do something different?

I also noticed that when you add an autocannon as the regular battery, it cost +20 points, but when you add an autocannon on a regular squad, it's only +15 points. Should I abuse that disparancy?

[Destro_Yersul]

Heavy weapons are always more expensive in Heavy weapon based squads, because you can get more of them into the squad.

IE: Two marine squads, 150 points each. With lascannons it is, I believe, 340 points for the lot. And that's two cannons. In a devvie squad you can have four cannons (10 man squad) for 290 points, or 215 if you cut the extra five guys. Twice the death, much smaller cost, and you don't lose anything by not moving them. Not that it matters with guard...

[onasuma]

By the way, Z-Axis, I just received my order of 6 heavy weapon teams (6x 2-man team, not 6x box of Heavy weapon, hehe) and I was wondering what should I build with them? I decided to go first with Autocannons for a battery, and spread some Lascannons among my shock troopers. Or you think I should do something different?

I also noticed that when you add an autocannon as the regular battery, it cost +20 points, but when you add an autocannon on a regular squad, it's only +15 points. Should I abuse that disparancy?

Well, in my lost and damned, i always favoured autocannons over lascannons or otherwise. Then again, all my troops could infiltrate, so that might have had something to do with it.

[YPU]

Is it me or does the new spacemarine book give stats for old kits? Like the plasma pistol and lascanon predator? I don’t think there will be a new kit for it yet the rules are now available (again)

The vindicator, I love the model so i think i will be using it anyway. But is it any good against (probably) grey knights? Since we will probably be using cities of death rules with our whackload of urban terrain (made for mordheim) I think the siege shield would be usefull.

Also, can rino’s now have two stormbolters? It would seem they come standard with one and can take another one.

[Destro_Yersul]

Rhinos could always have two storm bolters. It cost 10 points extra for the additional one, but almost no-one did it because it required a lot of extra storm bolters.

[YPU]

Eh, my bad. Say, does anybody have the free termi from the white dwarf? the one that also had an ork nob? A friend is going to drop them of (all his other warhammer stuff is at my place as wel) and now im wondering if i could convert it into some marine HQ, any sugestions, im quite decent with greenstuff these days so heavy sculpting shouldnt be a problem.

[onasuma]

I did the very same thing. Took the plastic termy, swaped the arm for one with a power sword arm from the multi part set, added a cape from the chaos terminator lord and a banner pole with an imperial eagle on top for the *insert name of chaplains power weapon here*. Also, i added a gun from an imquisitor range servo skull underneath his arm. It was going to be an underslung grenade launcher, but since chaplains cant have those, it counts as whatever we're calling hidden weapons now days.

[YPU]

But where do i get a chaplains weapon Crozius Arcanum, hm, I think I still have a backpack decoration piece in the shape of an eage on a skull good size as wel. But I would need to swap the power fist for a normal termi hand, something I dont have, ah wel, im sure its sculptable. Or I can make sure the hand is hidden by some fabric dangling from the weapon. And The power fist can be used on another model as an power fist.

thats digital weapons btw. I think inqisitors use them a lot.

So all I need then is a termi asault squad for him to comand.

[onasuma]

Nah, you want a normal termy squad for this. 4 powerfists that reroll to hit on the charge after a 12 storm bolter shots? Devastates basically any squad in its way.