DoTA 2 One: Not to be confused with DoTA 1 Two

[Grytorm]

Sniper, Drow, Huskar, Riki, Clinkz, and Viper are all ridiculous at low levels. I'll play them sometimes when I am queuing with my friend who is ranked much lower than me and I want an easy win without trying. I typically play hard support when I queue with him so I can support him and he'll have more fun...but sometimes I get tired of watching people miss free last hits and throw games away.

Hukar especially. It's almost impossible to lose a lane with him against people that don't understand the power of his spears and how to avoid harass.

Yeah that makes sense. I haven't played in a while but it is embarrassing to lose to a Mask of Madness sniper. Also Dark Seer when you are at a level where they just stand in Ion Shell. It is funny. I probably shouldn't get frustrated at those games because I should no I am probably not any better than it seems I am.

[Penguinizer]

Apparently the fantasy leagues are now enabled. I'm making one for us to use now, or will when it lets me.

EDIT: Ok, it apparently went through at some point. The Fantasy League name is Giant in the Doters, the password is gitp. The league ID is 34677.

We have room for 10 people, so join up so we can try to schedule the draft thing.

[Anteros]

Yeah that makes sense. I haven't played in a while but it is embarrassing to lose to a Mask of Madness sniper. Also Dark Seer when you are at a level where they just stand in Ion Shell. It is funny. I probably shouldn't get frustrated at those games because I should no I am probably not any better than it seems I am.

I don't honestly think MoM is bad on Sniper. It's not my first choice on him, but it's basically your only option to come back if you fall behind. I've been playing a few games lately with medallion first item on him though. It's basically a poor man's desolator for 800 gold.


Speaking of MoM I've tried it a few times on Ursa now. Between it and phase you can be running around at max movespeed less than 10 minutes into the game. It's objectively worse then blink, but still fun.

[Grytorm]

Yeah MoM Sniper can get silly. I'm sorry Invoker. Sniper has stolen your cold snap.

Edit: Also, shouldn't Chen's abilities Test of Faith and Penitance have their names reversed? It makes the most sense that way.

[Fan]

I don't honestly think MoM is bad on Sniper. It's not my first choice on him, but it's basically your only option to come back if you fall behind. I've been playing a few games lately with medallion first item on him though. It's basically a poor man's desolator for 800 gold.


Speaking of MoM I've tried it a few times on Ursa now. Between it and phase you can be running around at max movespeed less than 10 minutes into the game. It's objectively worse then blink, but still fun.

Maelstrom -> Mjolnir is better 100% of the time for come backs, because if you're behind you can't afford to sacrifice durability.

And honestly sniper has no flash farm either so he needs that to have a rate of farm even approaching reasonable.

[Fan]

Also attack speed and damage amplification (e.g. Orchid).




Diffusal - 45 damage, 25 attack speed, Purge active
Basher - 40 damage, 114 HP, 25% chance to stun

Diffusal does more damage. Bash stun is probably better than Purge when you're actually hitting someone. Offensive purge is a slow and helps you hit them in the first place. But more importantly, self-purge removes most movement speed slows.

You have earth shock for a slow, if someone is getting away from that there are 2 scenarios. 1: They popped BKB to be able to walk away (something skadi would also help with.), or 2. They are too tough to kill anyways and had backup that got there in time to screw you.

In the first scenario having a basher or a skadi would have been better.

BKB is another necessary pickup on Ursa late late anyways, the self purge is kind of moot.

You're forgetting the strength added damage from Ursa's ult, a factor that evens up the damage difference between the two, the stun is also more valuable than the slow because it shuts down blink / heroes like Invoker with Ghost walk, people who can just stun you and walk away (Crystal Maiden comes to mind.), etc, and that basher is also cheaper. Allowing you to build it sooner (it's 400g cheaper IIRC.) which means you have it a full tower earlier than the diffusal which also has a finite number of charges.

Desolator with the basher provides a higher damage to return due to allowing a larger number of fury swipes, your overpower swipes will all but garuntee a bash, and the basher builds into an Abyssal which is a critical late game item when dealing with bkb carries which nullify a huge part of the diffusals usefulness, diffusal also doesn't cancel tp's. So you end up in the "oh I'm hitting them while they're tp'ing away and thus they get away scot free." scenario.

Diffusal is an item that's only useful on heroes like Spectre, PL, Naga, and other illusion heroes because of the unmitigated mana burn it provides to boost the damage of their illusions.

The only non illusion hero Diffusal is good on is Riki.

[Mando Knight]

Apparently the fantasy leagues are now enabled. I'm making one for us to use now, or will when it lets me.

EDIT: Ok, it apparently went through at some point. The Fantasy League name is Giant in the Doters, the password is gitp. The league ID is 34677.

We have room for 10 people, so join up so we can try to schedule the draft thing.

I am now signed up for Fantasy DIGITAL SPORTS!

Also, I'm available almost any time.

[Lunix Vandal]

Spoiler: Outdated

Show

I'm also signed up, but my work schedule might make drafting difficult. I'll be available all day Friday and Saturday morning (CST), but then the rest of my weekend is tied up and I think the matchups are supposed to start on Monday.
EDIT: Yay for last-minute schedule changes. I'm open Friday and Saturday morning (CST) and Sunday afternoon/evening.

Signed up and ready to draft -- I'm free anytime Tuesday through Friday afternoons and evenings (CST) ... if I'm not too busy playing Transistor.

[Anteros]

Maelstrom -> Mjolnir is better 100% of the time for come backs, because if you're behind you can't afford to sacrifice durability.

And honestly sniper has no flash farm either so he needs that to have a rate of farm even approaching reasonable.

You're comparing a 5300 gold item to a 1900 gold item and saying it's better for comebacks. I agree that having your gold almost tripled is much better than not doing so.

Also, Sniper farms just as fast with MoM as he does with Maelstrom, you use the active to actually farm as well as move between camps faster. Durability isn't even a concern because if you're behind on Sniper and you get caught out you're dead anyway.

[HalfTangible]

Signed up!

Let's do thiiiiiiiiiiiis

EDIT: School's out for me, so I can do this pretty much any time that I'm awake.

[Penguinizer]

I kind of forgot about it for a bit. This is a second notice about the giantitp fantasy Dota 2 league. The league is Giant in the Doters, ID# 23677 and the password is gitp.

It's been up for a bit, so I was wondering if we should start scheduling the draft. Would something this weekend work for folks?

[Lunix Vandal]

It's been up for a bit, so I was wondering if we should start scheduling the draft. Would something this weekend work for folks?

Unfortunately, that's the one time this week that doesn't work for me, unless we shoot for Friday afternoon/evening (US time).

[HalfTangible]

I kind of forgot about it for a bit. This is a second notice about the giantitp fantasy Dota 2 league. The league is Giant in the Doters, ID# 23677 and the password is gitp.

It's been up for a bit, so I was wondering if we should start scheduling the draft. Would something this weekend work for folks?

Unfortunately, that's the one time this week that doesn't work for me, unless we shoot for Friday afternoon/evening (US time).

I'm okay with Friday afternoon =/

[Penguinizer]

Would something like 11 PM GMT on Friday work? I'm not exactly sure what time that is in the sates, but it should be afternoonish.

[Siosilvar]

How do I win this game? I've got going positive down, most of the mechanics are similar to League, but I can't figure out how to carry. Is it just going to be a matter of picking up Agi carries and building BKB for my first 100 games while I figure everything out?

[HalfTangible]

Would something like 11 PM GMT on Friday work? I'm not exactly sure what time that is in the sates, but it should be afternoonish.

Let's see... that's be 6 o'clock central standard time, so that works for me =/ So that's between 5 and 7 in the states. Maybe 4 to 8, depending on your region.

[Lunix Vandal]

How do I win this game? I've got going positive down, most of the mechanics are similar to League, but I can't figure out how to carry. Is it just going to be a matter of picking up Agi carries and building BKB for my first 100 games while I figure everything out?

"How to carry" is pretty broad ... anything in particular you notice that's giving you trouble? For example:
- Which carry to pick
- Last-hitting in the laning phase
- Having a good item/skill build for each carry you play (and what items are good for carries in general)
- Knowing when (and how) to adjust your build to the situation
- When and where to farm, and what jungle camps you can get to and kill quickly
- When and where to push
- Showing up to teamfights as needed
- Teamfighting in general (who should initiate, who to focus on, etc.)
- Communication with your team
- etc.

Let's see... that's be 6 o'clock central standard time, so that works for me =/ So that's between 5 and 7 in the states. Maybe 4 to 8, depending on your region.

Sounds good to me.

[Penguinizer]

All rightey. The draft is locked for approximately 24 hours from now. Last call for people joining in. The league is Giant in the Doters, ID# 23677 and the password is gitp.

[Bucky]

How do I win this game? I've got going positive down, most of the mechanics are similar to League, but I can't figure out how to carry. Is it just going to be a matter of picking up Agi carries and building BKB for my first 100 games while I figure everything out?

*Agi carries work sort of like AD carries. Your goal is usually one survivability item like BKB, and whatever damage items synergize with your right-click steroid. Melee carries with no gap closing skill usually want a blink dagger too.
*Until you have your first big item, your farm takes priority over everything else your team could be doing, except that if you're dead you can't farm. If your team is grouped up mid, you should be farming whichever side lane is on your side of the river. If you have no safe lane to farm, clear the jungle.
*The jungle, including the ancients, are a much stronger source of income than in LoL.
**If you don't know how to stack camps, look it up. And do it once per minute while jungling.
**During the midgame as a carry, I make it a habit to clean out the ancients every time I walk past them, barring a chase situation.
*Don't join a losing fight unless you can turn it into a winning fight. You'll get killed and/or lose farming time.
**And if your team gets in a fight, you can often extract some collateral in the form of a tower kill regardless of who wins.
*Your safety at any given time is directly proportional to the number of enemies visible on your minimap.

[HalfTangible]

All rightey. The draft is locked for approximately 24 hours from now. Last call for people joining in. The league is Giant in the Doters, ID# 23677 and the password is gitp.

Is anyone else having trouble connecting to Dota?

[Anteros]

*Agi carries work sort of like AD carries. Your goal is usually one survivability item like BKB, and whatever damage items synergize with your right-click steroid. Melee carries with no gap closing skill usually want a blink dagger too.
*Until you have your first big item, your farm takes priority over everything else your team could be doing, except that if you're dead you can't farm. If your team is grouped up mid, you should be farming whichever side lane is on your side of the river. If you have no safe lane to farm, clear the jungle.
*The jungle, including the ancients, are a much stronger source of income than in LoL.
**If you don't know how to stack camps, look it up. And do it once per minute while jungling.
**During the midgame as a carry, I make it a habit to clean out the ancients every time I walk past them, barring a chase situation.
*Don't join a losing fight unless you can turn it into a winning fight. You'll get killed and/or lose farming time.
**And if your team gets in a fight, you can often extract some collateral in the form of a tower kill regardless of who wins.
*Your safety at any given time is directly proportional to the number of enemies visible on your minimap.

To add to this, while farm is one of the most important things, don't get so caught up in it that you ignore your team. Having a slight last hit advantage isn't going to mean much if your team is getting crushed and losing all their towers in the mean time. If you're playing a carry with potential to completely change a team fight, then you need to at least carry a TP at all times in order to show up to fights that you can swing. One well placed chrono or eclipse in the early game can be the difference between winning or losing.

[Grytorm]

I just had a terrible idea. I was looking at Warlocks responses and saw the double double demon. My terrible ideas was allow Warlock to stack Aghanims. With two he gets 4 golems. Three he gets eight. It would be hilarious. And probably broken but unreachable.

[Anteros]

He can already get 4 with aghs refresher, and it's already ridiculous if he gets it early enough. Playing against a farmed Warlock is one of the few times that I'd consider diffusal blade core on a support. The last thing he needs is even more golems.

[Andre]

"Why people dislike Furion? He is gentle guardian of nature. Some call him rat and coward, but this is because he does not like violence. He tries to fight creep instead cause he dont want to make people sad. When he teleport it is to help friends being bullied in lane by mean people that wants to hurt them. He is very social and has many friends like treants, they help him because he is nice person and if he wants more friends he makes necro creatures to play with him. He watches over the forest and protects it from people that comes there to make violence. He is noble hero of the forest and just want to relax and fight off invaders that dont want to be nice and use diplomacy.

Natures prophet use ulti to show everyone "Hey I am dangerous please dont mess with me and my friends we just want to be in peace" and still warmongers try to hurt him and his friends. When he makes treant people attack them - wich is the same as attacking nature itself and nature is gentle and kind. So attacking Furion and treant is declaring war on everything good in the world.

Furion try to avoid fight because he wants everyone to be friends, but Furion gets sad when people hunt him like animal and kill him. So he gives warning shot and try to reason with the enemy. If you die to furion it is your own fault for being mean and attack nature.

So next time you lose against Furion maybe you should take a look at yourself and think "Maybe I deserved this" (looking at you barathrum), because Furion is not coward he just wants everyone to get along and if you keep being bully he will show you that this behavior is not accepted. Some call Furion pacifist and coward but it is no dishonor in going away from violence."

Such greatness deserves to be shared.

[Anteros]

One of my least favorite heroes to play against. If I see him on the other team and he's not an obvious off-laner I will almost always pick a hero that can punish him severely for jungling.

I've also had to take a little break. I'm fine with losing, and I'm even fine with my team doing stupid things...but the "Nothing is my fault! My team sucks!" crowd is difficult to deal with after a while.

[Trixie]

So, speaking of comebacks, I recently was on receiving end of 80-20 kill game.

We won.

And yes, I was on 20 kill side.

Why you can't get people that determined in most normal games?

...

Anyway, does anyone without compendium maybe have spare compendium points? I need 40 to next tier

I am also looking for Wayto card from Liquid and any Na'Vi cards except Dendi, check mine if I have something you'd like.

[Anteros]

I have a ton, but I don't know when I will be on there. My steam name is Anteros77 if you want to look me up though.

What's the deal with compendiums anyway? I know what they are, but I had a guy last night start whining over voice immediately when I zoned into the game and I didn't have one. The same guy picked a 4th carry for our team and then harassed me because I didn't buy donkey, obs, AND sentries with my starting money as a solo support. Of course I just muted him and moved on, so the game was actually quite peaceful, but I don't understand what about this game makes grown men think it's ok to act like petulant children.

[Mando Knight]

So, speaking of comebacks, I recently was on receiving end of 80-20 kill game.

We won.

And yes, I was on 20 kill side.

Why you can't get people that determined in most normal games?

I don't know. My best comeback was turning a certain defeat (down at least one lane of rax, down on kills, and a fat Viper coming in to win it) into a bloody victory. Because Mjollnir Bloodseeker in the middle of an enemy mega creep wave is crazy tough. The Viper just didn't know when to give up (or maybe his BoTs were on cooldown?), as I kept proccing Chain Lightning into Bloodbath, until the point where the only way to make it more picturesque was if I was playing Tiny instead of Bloodseeker.

That kill was when the rest of the team realized we still had a chance. Team morale went up, and rather than trashing me when I backed off from a situation I knew I couldn't salvage, they actually realized that I was probably a (if not the) key to victory...

I have a ton, but I don't know when I will be on there. My steam name is Anteros77 if you want to look me up though.

What's the deal with compendiums anyway? I know what they are, but I had a guy last night start whining over voice immediately when I zoned into the game and I didn't have one. The same guy picked a 4th carry for our team and then harassed me because I didn't buy donkey, obs, AND sentries with my starting money as a solo support. Of course I just muted him and moved on, so the game was actually quite peaceful, but I don't understand what about this game makes grown men think it's ok to act like petulant children.

Compendiums include a level booster (though only a portion of it is shared with the other players in the game), so you can get your next random item faster. Drafting a 4th core and then expecting the support to take up all their slack right away is a bit much, though. (It can work, if the cores are at least competent at playing the early game)

It's not as bad as 5th-picking Pudge so the Dragon Knight has to go solo offlane, though (because the Enigma just "had" to jungle, rather than adapting to the situation). Or 5th-picking Pudge in general. In hindsight, I maybe could have done better by out-lasthitting the Pudge in lane...

[Trixie]

I have a ton, but I don't know when I will be on there. My steam name is Anteros77 if you want to look me up though.

Sorry, Steam couldn't find you

What's the deal with compendiums anyway? I know what they are, but I had a guy last night start whining over voice immediately when I zoned into the game and I didn't have one.

Funny that, here people go "you bought that trash lol" though it's relatively poorer area, too.

It's not as bad as 5th-picking Pudge so the Dragon Knight has to go solo offlane, though (because the Enigma just "had" to jungle, rather than adapting to the situation). Or 5th-picking Pudge in general. In hindsight, I maybe could have done better by out-lasthitting the Pudge in lane...

I don't know, I like solo offlanes. A few of my nice victories were there, as as my skill level good support (unless playing with friends) is very rare and not competing for last hits helps. I do like heroes that need fair bit of XP and gold, and if they don't get it, they fall behind, hard

[Mando Knight]

I don't know, I like solo offlanes. A few of my nice victories were there, as as my skill level good support (unless playing with friends) is very rare and not competing for last hits helps. I do like heroes that need fair bit of XP and gold, and if they don't get it, they fall behind, hard

Dragon Knight isn't a hero that should go solo offlane. He has durability but no escape mechanism, making him weak against any kind of early-game magic harass, or especially the harassment from two faster, ranged heroes. I'd rather compete with an ally for last hits than try to compete with two enemies for them.