Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread II: New Thread smell included!

[Tanuki Tales]

I've got stuff to do, so I'm going to overlook any discrepancies until I get the new thread posted and officially close the last one.

*cough*

Now no one heard me say that.

[malonkey1]

...Silence

*cough*

Now no one heard me say that.

Heard you say what?

[SamBurke]

Heard you say what?

Buttering him up, are we?

[caledscratcher]

Review: The Aegis Mechanic

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1. What type of shield do they get? Do they still have the armor check penalty from their 1 lb shield? What about spell failure?
2. The 2nd/every 4th level and the 4th/every 4th level bonuses stack, as currently written. So, at level 1 it's +0 self/+0 ally, at level 2 it's +2/+2, at level 4 it's +2/+3, at level 6 it's +4/+5, at level 8 it's +4/+6, etc. It protects the ally better than yourself. Is that intended?
3. You have two abilities that, when combined, grant 1.5 x class level to perception, with an additional +4 over every 5 levels. Seems redundant. Total perception growth is +0/+3/+4/+8/+11/+13/+14/+16/+19/+23 over the first 10 levels, and +46 at level 20. Why not just make it 2x class level and call it good?
4. Would wearing adamantine armor give the mechanic 3 extra points of DR to give to her team-mates with "your body is just like mine"? I don't see any reason why not.
5. Nothing about mechanics other than the collapsing shield. And, frankly, seems rather passive. Everything they have is awareness, DR, AC, and sharing defense bonuses with allies.
All in all, it's an interesting class, just needs more stuff to be able to do in a battle. And you need to work on a few of the mechanical bonuses.

1. Any kind of shield they desire, I probably should've put that in. It functions exactly as the normal shield, except for the weight.
2. They're supposed to be more supportive, so it's intentional.
3. Well, they'd apply in different circumstances separately, so I figured I'd make it a bit more than class level for each, in its final state.
4. That's absolutely fine.
5. They are rather passive, but they do have bonuses in other fields for their every-three-levels methods of steel.
Total: Yeah, I knew I'd have to spruce it up eventually. Unfortunately, I fell asleep right after school yesterday, so that didn't happen before the deadline. I know I probably won't win, I'm just proud that I managed to succeed on finishing it at all, given that I started 9 hours before posting it.

[xammux]

Thanks a lot for your super quick and useful review gr8artist! Below is my overly wordy responses to your review.

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Why does a Titan Toppler adventure? Why don't you just ask why the sky is blue, or why the good die young or some other inane question? What else would a brutally powerful warrior do with giant weapons and world rending strength?

- This made my day. Thank you.

Me making your day made mine, and you wrote an awesome review, so we're even.


1. Titan Toppling. If I am small, can I use a large dagger to trip medium and large sized creatures with? Does the bonus to tripping large creatures apply when I consider myself to be larger than I am, and equal in size to the creature I'm tripping? (Human w/ large longsword tripping a large creature is considered large. Does he lose the TT bonus?)


When I refer to the weapon size category, realize that a light weapon (like a dagger) is two size categories lower that the creature size designed to wield it. A one-handed weapon is relatively one size category smaller and a two-handed weapon is roughly equal in size. The size of the weapon is what i refer to in any of these abilities. So a dagger designed for a large creature is small sized and would not increase your ability to trip anyone. overall the class was designed to exalt the biggest weapons someone can wield rather than to wield daggers what would look like regular if poorly designed swords

As for your second question the answer is that as long as your current size category in general is smaller than your opponent, you get the TT bonus. So in your example your character would indeed retain his TT bonus while still getting the size bonus. If he then had the mage cast enlarge person on him, he would lose the TT bonus against the large opponent. It isn't really toppling a titan if you're picking on someone your own size is it?

Any tips on how to change the wording to clarify these issues?

2. Effortless effort is so broken, but by the time it would get problematic, you'd have BoH's anyway. Does this increase the size and weight of single items they can carry, maximum load and all? If I'm small, with +3 changes, then I'm considered huge, which drastically multiplies my capacity. I could likely carry a large sized mermaid, and would look quite ridiculous while doing so.


Bags of holding are exactly why I didn't think this ability was truly overpowered. The entire reason I created this ability was for the idea of carrying around truly absurd things and impressing/confusing/scaring the heck out of random people.

3. I like Weapon Deflection. I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't be a thing.


Thank you, I thought it was very thematically appropriate considering how one usually sees giant weapons used.

4. More DR than a barbarian? and an ending strength higher than rage? You are treading on scary ground, good sir. Consider making it +1 adjustments... I always find it weird that ability score increases seem to only come in even number increments.

I honestly don't think the DR is really an issue as it's only a little better, the invulnerable rager and using the increased DR and other certain rage powers blow it out of the water.

As to the strength increase being bigger than rage, barbarians get greater rage at 11th that increases their strength and con bonus to +6 and mighty rage at 20th that increases it to +8. On top of that, there's also the con bonus and will save bonus to consider. That's not even considering the terrifying stuff from rage powers and rage cycling. Overall I don't think the strength bonus is particularly overpowered considering.

Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong, but for now it will remain as is. If I overhaul the class, this will be one of the first abilities replaced or refined anyway as it's kind of generic.

5. Weapon technique is awesome. He needs to be able to change his decision, or learn additional benefits as he levels. Please?


As originally in my notes, I had him gaining this thing twice, with Enhanced Aspect as the third level of this, and also had plans for a sort of "retraining" to switch aspects but ran out of time and wasn't quite sure where to put it. I'll see what I can do.

6. IUD at 5th level is a bit too early for me. You've got a bunch of good stuff here, feel free to postpone IUD till later. Also, bold it.

Thank you for catching this, I put this in the wrong place. It's supposed to be at 10th according to my notes. Probably also why I forgot to bold it.

7. Grip of Giants... This allows a small character (3 feet tall) to wield huge sized 2-handers (approx 16 feet) in two hands at 18th level . What about other abilities that increase effective wielding size, like the Titan Mauler barbarian? Do they stack?

That first part is absolutely correct, absurdity like that is the whole point of this class.

I don't know about errata, but as written the Titan Mauler archetype does not allow you to wield larger than normal weapons as this class does, though that was clearly the intent of the ability.

If your GM allows the archetype ability to work as intended then it stacks only when the size penalty for an oversized weapon (-2) is completely negated by the Titan Mauler ability (e.g. a Titan Toppler 6/Titan Mauler 6 would be capable of wielding weapons two size categories above their own, but a Titan Toppler 6/Titan Mauler 5 would still be restricted to weapons only one size category bigger, at least in regard to the benefit of grip of giants.)

8. Mix the two 7th level abilities together into one, for simplicity.

You're right on this, the only reason they aren't is because Grip Shift came as a later expansion to Titan's Reach that I wrote on a separate document and only added last minute.

9. Unstoppable hits does some weird things if you're not using the largest weapon available to you. Consider making it constant as long as they're wielding any weapon of size X or larger. (-2 AC for large, -4 for huge, -6 for gargantuan, etc.) Because currently, using a huge weapon instead of a gargantuan one means you don't get any armor pen, which is stupid because you had armor pen with huge weapons before.


Your suggestion is basically what I was trying for, I think I shall make it like that instead, it is stupid now that I think about it.

10. Mechanically, ignoring a portion of AC might as well be phrased as a bonus to attack rolls, which sounds a whole lot less cool. Consider letting it bypass DR, or deal some small damage to armor and shields struck. So, after hitting the enemy so many times, their armor might get sundered.

Realize that it really isn't the same as just adding to attack rolls because some opponents, particularly monks, may not have an armor/shield/natural armor bonus to subtract from, and thus the ability is not increasing your ability to hit them at all. I thought of adding a DR bypassing effect instead, but some DR is described as healing instantly and the Titan Toppler already gets a lot of damage to go through DR because of the over sized weapons. I thought of of adding powerful auto sundering effects to this class because they make sense, but most players would very quickly come to hate it as you are basically breaking money, so I didn't do that either.

11. Weapon sweep just takes a giant steaming dump all over Titan's Reach and Grip Shift. It increases the range, and allows you to hit everyone, without worrying about the pockets that are too close to be hit. Also, consider just giving them whirlwind attack as a bonus feat. Or delaying this for a few levels. Your class is very front-loaded.

You are right again, I think I'll just make it like whirlwind attack, noting that it is effected by Titan's Reach/Grip Shift reach changes and thus working with them instead of overpowering them.

As to the class being front-loaded, some of the abilities I had in mind for higher levels got thrown out because they didn't make sense thematically and others got left out because of complexity and time constraints. I don't know how much time I'll have to really work on this class for now.

12. I don't know of many players who bother to keep track of tight spaces like those described in Carve Through Obstacles.


I only included it because my main DM for a three year period was a psychotic rules lawyer who wouldn't even let the fighter swing his greatsword in some dungeon corridors. It is fine for the purpose of at least giving some credence for their ability to do so while being "balanced" enough to hopefully satisfy any rules lawyer, as well as hopefully adding a little awesome for the concept. You are right though, most really won't keep track of that, so it's just a kind of add on.

13. Enhanced aspect allows me to give my scythe an 18-20 crit range, or my falchion a x4 crit. Was that intended? Because if so, I'm running a keen, 15-20 x4 falchion on this guy, like a boss.


That is what was intended, with the background of it being to encourage exactly what you are describing, weapon use of something other than the greatsword, greataxe, lucerne hammer and earthbreaker. I agree that it is extremely powerful, but it's a 16th level ability and wizards and clerics get 9th level spells 1 level after, so I don't really know how balanced or unbalanced it is. Is there any way you would suggest balancing it.

14. I love the capstone for flavor. And, it's not overpowered, since a wizard could do it more than once per day.


Yeah, I never thought it was unbalanced, I just don't feel it necessarily encompasses the true epicness I wanted, like something is missing.

All in all: I like it. I think it needs some small tweaking, but it's definitely a fun start.

I'm not sure how much I can implement in time but if I can get the go ahead for the What Came Before theme, I have an awesome idea for a complete overhaul of this class that would would give it way more options in the nature of different types of Titan Toppler, kind of like how the ranger has different combat styles while still keeping the option to play it basically as it is now. This would also make the class more in line with the staple of Pathfinder classes, versatility. I haven't really hammered out the idea yet but I think it would be awesome.

[gr8artist]

Glad to help, guys. :)

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, the last contest is closed, the voting thread is up and the new one has been posted!

Edit:

@Zhdarkstar: Making a PrC for your last entry?

[DawnbringerSO]

[QUOTE=gr8artist;16135449]Reviews: Get 'em before the thread is closed.

Badass

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1. Bully mentions the Cad. Copy paste error there.
2. Humiliate seems a little weak. The effect is marginally better than a normal intimidate check, and it eats up armor training? No thanks.
3. Frightful Presence is good in theory, but not so much in execution. Why would someone make a will save against the BA? It only serves to make them more susceptible to Frightful Presence in the future. And casters, the ones that will predominantly be catching BA's in hostile AoE's won't be making attack and damage rolls anyway.
4. Cruelty is nice, but it needs a name that wouldn't get confused with Antipaladins.
All in all: Not bad. It's an interesting change, but seems a little bland compared to what we're allowed to get away with in this month's competition. If you have the time to make some improvements, I'd recommend it.

Thanks!

1. Fixed.

2. I've changed it to temporary wisdom damage to reflect making stupid decisions by being humiliated.

3. I think I've fixed that problem by having a caster act as if he has spell resistance if they fail the save. And on the contrary, if they use something like fireball, their damage roll is reduced. And heck, evards black tentacles loses much of its power.

4. How is serious cruelty for you? :P

5. Thanks a lot. It might seem a little bland, but I couldn't think of anything for the duration of the entire contest, and I only thought of that the day before it ended. So not a bad days work, I'd say.

[zhdarkstar]

Well, the last contest is closed, the voting thread is up and the new one has been posted!

Edit:

@Zhdarkstar: Making a PrC for your last entry?

I said I was going to if Those That Came Before won...

EDIT: And the core class mechanics are about 90% complete. Just need to come up with a buffet of fringe benefits. Let me know what you guys think about the variable approach of tying HD/BAB/Saves/Skills to the emulated prestige class instead of a flat progression regardless of emulated prestige class.

[Tanuki Tales]

And the link I missed is now on the first post.

You know, I can't wait for the day that we have enough material for a campaign to be run solely with entries.

Edit:

The archive has also been updated to before the last two contests. @.@

[Ilorin Lorati]

You know, I can't wait for the day that we have enough material for a campaign to be run solely with entries.

I'm pretty sure that there are enough base classes and PrCs to do at least player content entirely from here.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'm pretty sure that there are enough base classes and PrCs to do at least player content entirely from here.

But do we have enough races and monsters for a completely unique ecology?

[DawnbringerSO]

But do we have enough races and monsters for a completely unique ecology?

Well we have a lot of races, and I am going to be submitting another.

As for monsters, people don't usually make monsters.

In which case, I propose that next month, the contest should be to design a set (at least 3+) of creatures based around a particular theme. Doesn't matter what theme, any theme of the creators choice, but all the creatures must be related in some way.

[malonkey1]

Well we have a lot of races, and I am going to be submitting another.

As for monsters, people don't usually make monsters.

In which case, I propose that next month, the contest should be to design a set (at least 3+) of creatures based around a particular theme. Doesn't matter what theme, any theme of the creators choice, but all the creatures must be related in some way.

That sounds like it should be a completely separate contest.

[gr8artist]

Next month is Dr. Who, don't forget.
I might try and make a monster for this month's competition. Archetypes and prestige classes seem a little too easy.
Can we use someone else's submission as the idea, instead of our own?

[SamBurke]

Next month is Dr. Who, don't forget.
I might try and make a monster for this month's competition. Archetypes and prestige classes seem a little too easy.
Can we use someone else's submission as the idea, instead of our own?

That should be legal, right?

[Ilorin Lorati]

That should be legal, right?

It would have to be if there were to be new people this month.

[SamBurke]

It would have to be if there were to be new people this month.

That's a great point, actually. Which one were you going to add to, out of curiosity?

[malonkey1]

I still have dibs on Cybermen. I was thinking of making it a template instead of a standalone monster. An inherited template, obviously.

[Razanir]

I have an idea for next month... A prestige class themed around the Doctor's companions.

[Tanuki Tales]

That sounds like it should be a completely separate contest.

Why?

We've done something like that before for "A Day in the Life". And we were just voting on a month to be about making an NPC or making an entire quest line around a Macguffin.

The whole point of this contest is to be fluid and to be about Pathfinder material in general. This usually takes the form of allowing all types of material to be submitted alongside each other, but if enough people want to do a contest concerning something like "a theme is selected and you make three monsters around it", then we'll do it.

Next month is Dr. Who, don't forget.
I might try and make a monster for this month's competition. Archetypes and prestige classes seem a little too easy.
Can we use someone else's submission as the idea, instead of our own?

That...was the idea for this month.

As long as you give proper credit and remove/submitted a new entry if asked to by the original homebrewer, there's nothing standing in your way.

Edit:

Also, if you haven't voted yet guys, please do so.

[Razanir]

Balance question as I prepare for next month's contest: How reasonable would it be to give sending as an at-will SLA? (At about CL 7-8)

[Tanuki Tales]

Balance question as I prepare for next month's contest: How reasonable would it be to give sending as an at-will SLA? (At about CL 7-8)

Sounds fine to me.

[Razanir]

Sounds fine to me.

Okay.

Oh, and no one needs to feel bad next month if they reference the same stuff as me. My PrC will have a lot of fun references. Including, but not limited to, the superphone, the squareness gun, and the Tethered Aerial Release Developed In Style.

[Tanuki Tales]

So...what's everyone's plans for their entries this month?

[malonkey1]

So...what's everyone's plans for their entries this month?

To be honest, I'm skipping this one. The past entries really didn't inspire me much.

[Razanir]

So...what's everyone's plans for their entries this month?

Yeah... I'm mostly working ahead on next month's entry. I might whip up an archetype or alternate class for the Liberal Arts Major, though. Say hello to the Science Major

[Tanuki Tales]

Why did you guys vote for this theme if you didn't actually want it....

[Milo v3]

Finally posting the Kindred, and making it a monster rather than race so this has a few more monsters.

Hopefully life wont screw up again so I can actually finish an extry

[malonkey1]

Why did you guys vote for this theme if you didn't actually want it....

Because the ones I actually wanted were voted out.