Personal Woes and Advice 3

[Kalmageddon]

I don't have to look very hard. And I'm already at the lowest possible point.

No you are not, otherwise you wouldn't even bother to complain about it here.

[Skeppio]

No you are not, otherwise you wouldn't even bother to complain about it here.

Um, that's even worse. I'm so low, I'm talking about it and bringing others down with me.

[Kalmageddon]

Um, that's even worse. I'm so low, I'm talking about it and bringing others down with me.

Who are you bringing down?

[Skeppio]

Who are you bringing down?

Everyone in this thread, everyone I talk to elsewhere on the net, everyone I talk to in person, etc.

[Vedhin]

To be fair, it's not a small number of people that have betrayed, back-stabbed or otherwise turned their back on me (a lot of them are from earlier in my life, long before my depression became noticeable). It leaves a bit of an impression. I honestly don't know how you can put trust in people so easily. I wish I knew how...I feel like I lost that ability years ago.

This is going to be much harsher than I'd like it to be, but this is probably partly your fault. I've had a similar experience, and I still have great difficulty trusting people. I can think of one that I really trust, and the people that I sort of trust number in the single digits. Immediate family brings that number up to eleven or so. But the thing is, even if my friends were the ones who left, I didn't try to stop them. I just sat by and watched them drift further and further away.
So try reaching out to anyone who has left that you can still contact. Chances are, at least one of them will still be willing to give you a chance.

[Kalmageddon]

Everyone in this thread, everyone I talk to elsewhere on the net, everyone I talk to in person, etc.

I think you may be over estimating slighly the impact your attitude can have.
You are not bringing me down and from the looks of it neither you are bringing down anyone else on this thread.
Most people are simply answering things that amount to "you are not willing to listen right now, so we'll let you vent", which I think is a perfectly valid reaction.

[Skeppio]

This is going to be much harsher than I'd like it to be, but this is probably partly your fault. I've had a similar experience, and I still have great difficulty trusting people. I can think of one that I really trust, and the people that I sort of trust number in the single digits. Immediate family brings that number up to eleven or so. But the thing is, even if my friends were the ones who left, I didn't try to stop them. I just sat by and watched them drift further and further away.
So try reaching out to anyone who has left that you can still contact. Chances are, at least one of them will still be willing to give you a chance.

They refuse contact. All of them. Do you really think I've never once tried reaching back out to them?

I think you may be over estimating slighly the impact your attitude can have.
You are not bringing me down and from the looks of it neither you are bringing down anyone else on this thread.
Most people are simply answering things that amount to "you are not willing to listen right now, so we'll let you vent", which I think is a perfectly valid reaction.

I can see clearly that I'm infuriating people, making them miserable, making them want to give up and flip me the bird, etc. Hell, at this point I'd want to give me the middle finger too, and then a savage beating. I can see clearly that I'm upsetting people. If my attitude couldn't bring others down, I would never have lost the friendships that I treasured, and I wouldn't have plummeted into complete madness like I am.

[Vedhin]

Everyone in this thread, everyone I talk to elsewhere on the net, everyone I talk to in person, etc.

I can assure you that this is not the case. Seeing that there is someone who shares some of the issues I've had has cheered me up a bit, since one of my biggest problems has been feeling like nobody understood my problems.

Granted, it'd be even better if you were cheered up too, but you have had a positive impact.

[Skeppio]

I can assure you that this is not the case. Seeing that there is someone who shares some of the issues I've had has cheered me up a bit, since one of my biggest problems has been feeling like nobody understood my problems.

Granted, it'd be even better if you were cheered up too, but you have had a positive impact.

How have I? Is knowing that there's more miserable people out there supposed to be a positive thing? What the ****?

[Kalmageddon]

I can see clearly that I'm infuriating people, making them miserable, making them want to give up and flip me the bird, etc. Hell, at this point I'd want to give me the middle finger too, and then a savage beating. I can see clearly that I'm upsetting people. If my attitude couldn't bring others down, I would never have lost the friendships that I treasured, and I wouldn't have plummeted into complete madness like I am.

Then you are hallucinating, because you are talking to people miles away through an Internet forum and there is no way you are able to "see" that you are infuriating them, expecially since you are not.
At this point it just seems to me that you are fishing for a reaction and trying to incite one by describing what you would do to yourself.

The truth of the matter is the only person you are hurting and briging down with this attitude is yourself, as you will sooner or later realize when you finally snap out of it.
On the other hand, if you have clinical depression, seek professional help as soon as possibile, since I know from experience there is nothing anyone can say or do that will make you feel better.

[dehro]

I can see clearly that I'm infuriating people, making them miserable, making them want to give up and flip me the bird, etc..

either you're failing at trolling or you need to buy a new set of glasses.

[Skeppio]

Then you are hallucinating, because you are talking to people miles away through an Internet forum and there is no way you are able to "see" that you are infuriating them, expecially since you are not.
At this point it just seems to me that you are fishing for a reaction and trying to incite one by describing what you would do to yourself.

"See" was just a figure of speech. Don't be so literal. I mean from their posts, I can notice they're increasingly angry, frustrated and sick of me.
I'm not just "fishing for a reaction". Do you think I'm actually well-adjusted and happy, and am acting miserable for fun? What kind of monster do you think I am?

The truth of the matter is the only person you are hurting and briging down with this attitude is yourself, as you will sooner or later realize when you finally snap out of it.

If I'm the only one upset by my posts and attitude, why do other people leave me? If they're not upset as well, why am I now minus a bunch of treasured friendships?

On the other hand, if you have clinical depression, seek professional help as soon as possibile, since I know from experience there is nothing anyone can say or do that will make you feel better.

Yeah, I know. That includes therapists and professional help.

either you're failing at trolling or you need to buy a new set of glasses.

Stop. Being. So. Literal!
Oh, and I love how I'm accused of trolling now. Because it's so hard to belive anyone can actually be this unhappy. Stay classy.

[Kalmageddon]

If I'm the only one upset by my posts and attitude, why do other people leave me? If they're not upset as well, why am I now minus a bunch of treasured friendships?

Because they are now living their life and you are not? I don't see them here lamenting how much their life sucks so surely you didn't manage to bring them down with you, don't you think?
But, whatever, as previously stated, you need to snap out of it on your own*, not much point in arguing when you can just make stuff up to point at it and say "see? I told you I was right".

* unless you suffer from clinical depression, in which case, seek professional help from someone qualified.

PS as for being literal, Dehro and I were just pointing at the absurdity of your supposed knowledge of how people react to you on the Internet.

[Vedhin]

How have I? Is knowing that there's more miserable people out there supposed to be a positive thing? What the ****?

Yeah, that was really poorly phrased. I apologize.
I'd try to explain what I was trying to say, but I don't need to put my foot in my mouth again.

[Somensjev]

Yeah, that was really poorly phrased. I apologize.
I'd try to explain what I was trying to say, but I don't need to put my foot in my mouth again.

something along the lines of "i'm glad that i'm not the only person who has experienced this, i feel very bad that others have to go through what i did, however, it makes me happy to know that i am not alone"

i may be entirely off, but that was what it seemed like you wanted to say (or something along those lines anyway)

[Moriwen]

Skeppio,

I'd just like to say that -- while I don't know you that well -- I've never been bothered or annoyed by anything you posted, and that I in fact look out for your posts and recognize your name as someone whose opinions I respect and who has helpful and constructive things to say.

I'm sorry you're going through a rough time. But I don't think you're trolling, faking, or doing anything but saying how you really feel. I hope things get better for you soon. Please know that not everyone's opinion of you is as bad as you think it is, and that depression -- which is very real, and a legitimate medical condition -- is very likely to be impairing your judgement of how people feel about you.

((Hugs)) if you want them. Please feel very free to PM me any time you want to talk.

[Skeppio]

Because they are now living their life and you are not? I don't see them here lamenting how much their life sucks so surely you didn't manage to bring them down with you, don't you think?
But, whatever, as previously stated, you need to snap out of it on your own*, not much point in arguing when you can just make stuff up to point at it and say "see? I told you I was right".

* unless you suffer from clinical depression, in which case, seek professional help from someone qualified.

PS as for being literal, Dehro and I were just pointing at the absurdity of your supposed knowledge of how people react to you on the Internet.

No, I mean they wouldn't have left me if they weren't pissed with me. They're happy now, because they no longer have to put up with me.

Yes I do suffer from clinical depression, now that you mention it. Professional help didn't do squat.

It's not absurd. People are frustrated and angry with me. I find it weird and shocking if someone doesn't have at least one reason to be upset with me. I've just accepted that no matter what I do, I'll **** it up and piss people off somehow.

Yeah, that was really poorly phrased. I apologize.
I'd try to explain what I was trying to say, but I don't need to put my foot in my mouth again.

Oh, okay. Sorry.

[Mx.Silver]

What makes you so sure of that? Do you know the answer I want?

I wouldn't say I know what you want. Truth be told, I wouldn't be overly surprised if you aren't entirely sure what you want at the moment. But I do have a suspicion about what might be going on in some part of your head when you're posting. I hope I'm wrong about it - and not because of anything that would say about your character - but I'm still worried it's fairly likely.

What I suspect is that on some level you're hoping for affirmation. Affirmation of the negative thoughts you have about yourself and your situation; of the idea that there is no point in living because everyone hates you and will always hate you. That may seem a strange thing to want, which it is. In fact fundamentally it's irrational. But when you're dealing with sever depression, this is something that does happen - even if you aren't always consciously aware of it.

I'm drawing this conclusion from two main sources. First are your comments, the strongest example being this one:

EDIT: You know what? Fine. Everyone wants to turn against me? Fine. Everyone wants to ignore me? Fine. You know what this means? I was right all along, about everyone!

That to me is a very telling line, and a worrying one - for reasons I'm going to get to presently. Unless you've completely screwed-up writing that - and given that you're usually fairly clear in your communications here I doubt that - this is expressing a satisfaction in having your unpleasant thoughts apparently 'confirmed'. I would also think that, if you saw someone else make these posts, you'd make a similar assessment.

The other source is personal experience. Because I've been in this position before. I've said these sort of things before, and a lot of the time I have to watch myself to make sure I don't do it again. Because these are not good things to say, and the urge to say them is generally not a good sign.
They are the sort of rationalisations I have tried to make when I'm moderately-to-actively suicidal, and ones that I've made along the road before I'm in the state.


And yes, these are rationalisations. Things that make the thoughts bubbling away in your skull seem sane; ways to try and explain why it is you feel as terrible as you do and why your thinking about ending isn't irrational and why attempts to do so could be justified. In short: ad hoc reasons to try and justify a strongly-held belief despite the fact that this belief is quite clearly, and quite undeniably, illogical and irrational. A belief which you probably know, on some intellectual level, is in fact irrational but which you still hold. A belief that is, to be blunt, a bit crazy.
And yes, I know being told that doesn't make it better - because mental illness isn't rational and therefore isn't going to be instantly defeated by an acceptance of its irrationality. In fact, from my own experience, it's the difficulty in reconciling this that leads to some of these rationalisations in the first place. You know that the real reason is that you're suffering from a mental illness, but knowing that doesn't make it stop even though, even though from rational standpoint - which the bulk of your mind is still going to be operating from - it should.
The irony of course being that the rationalisations are frequently obviously irrational themselves. I shouldn't need to explain why this:

If there was such good in my life, I wouldn't be so depressed.

is nonsense. Because I really think on some level, no matter how much part of you doesn't want you to acknowledge it, you already know that this sort of statement is irrational. And that if anyone else had made this statement you'd call them out on it.

This is not to say that your emotions aren't real, because they are. Nor am I accusing you of lying. As with most things with depression it's messier and more complicated than that, and it's easier to just go 'well, there's no point fighting it, I'm feeling this way because I should be' than having to keep facing it. Which is why those sort of thought patterns are going to keep appearing.


As I said before I hope I'm wrong about this. To reiterate: that's not because of anything it might say about your character. Because I wouldn't hate you, or anyone, for this. I hope I'm wrong because this is a very bad place to be mentally. It's also one that's very prone to getting worse, especially if you let thoughts like 'they'd be happier if I wasn't around' slip into your brain unchallenged - even though it is incredibly easy to do just that.


Sorry if that's a little incoherent or rambling.

[North]

I used to post in the forums a bunch ages ago.

Since then life has gotten busy.

This has been a bad year. And can't seriously talk to people I know about how how bad its gotten because of how weak I feel about everything or even worse anything gets back to work and I'm compromised. So with safe anonymity I can. If I can't open my head and ramble to strangers on the internet then where can I.

My wife and I split up just before easter. After that it was really hard. Stress has been overloading me everywhere. Personal life obviously affected . Financially I'm paying for my mortgage, car, bills by myself. I've gotten some roommates. And while that's releived part of the money problems. Its had more then its own set of worries.

Work. I'm doing really good. Mostly. I'm the manager for one of the busiest stores in my company and I've set record goals this year. But certain key focus areas I have not done. And retail at Christmas is stress beyond . In December I've gotten five days off. And worked many long shifts. A least I'll have a good paycheck in January.

Since the break up. I've met one girl who I totally ended up falling for. And I thought at one point she with me. But in the last few months. She's very much pulled back. Part of the problem is distance. Being it requires a airplane to see each other as we are on opposite sides of the country. We met on a trip. And after that. Have had three meetup trips since then. She lives in Ontario and I was seriously considering moving. Not just for her. But career wise lots of room for advancement. But she's told me not to move there for her. Which part of I can appreciate but also still stings nonetheless. But even with the idea of me moving even for a promotion she told me that she doesn't think it would work out anyways. We've still been talking but that fun talk that was happening is dimmer. And part of that could be her own Christmas exhaustion. But my broken point has been I've been asking her to come visit me back out here. Offered to pay for half the flight. Which seems fair to me. And at first she was saying she couldn't afford it. Needs to save money for new place and car. But now. She says that she just wants to have a regular Jan and is too exhausted to want to do a trip. Which I can't help but read as she simply doesn't rate visiting here as worth the effort anymore.

I don't want to give up. But that sucks. And am having a hard time believing in any optimistic scenario anymore with her. I'm force to come up with a good time while it lasted but I shouldn't have let myself think of it anymore then what it was.

So tonight. New years eve. Partying woo.

I have been so busy with work in December i haven't spent much time on the personal. And as tonight arrived I waited for plans to pop up. I don't know if I would consider myself popular but I'm friendly with a lot of people. My bff is off in another part of the country visiting his new gf and her family. My roommate and good buddy went to a party, that was part housewarming and part new years. But as I didn't know the host I was not invited.

But today I was invited to a small get together from another buddy and his girlfriend. Unfortunately the evening had the few other people going cancel so it ended up being the three of us. Glad that someone cared enough to invite me but really the fitting for a terrible year. As I thirdwheeled. And left for home just after midnight.

My personal worth is at an all time low. And I'm running on fumes. Ive always told myself I would never kill myself. And I won't. But that nagging voice in my head that pokes up the bad thoughts is gaining a spiteful amount of persuasive. At this point if a drunk driver were to hit me in traffic and kill me. I'm unsure if I would even be mad. This is just venting. I know I don't mean this. But damn its getting hard to wake up some days.

I'm scared of a future where I end up like the dad I never knew. He died alone. In a bar. Of a heart attack. And the thought of spinning for the next twenty years. Has me petrified. Intellectually I know things will get better.

But its a hard night tonight.

[bluewind95]

What happened? Everyone just....left me. I haven't had a PM here, or any other site I frequent in months, even years. It's like I barely exist anymore. People who used to care about me aren't even here at all anymore, like MonkeyBusiness. Everyone's just...gone. The good I once had in my life....is gone.

You want an answer to this, Skeppio?

Very well. I'll give you an answer. I'm going to be honest here, so forgive me if I come across as a bit blunt. (scuse any caps, they're meant to be bold/italics, but I'm editing in a notepad, and it's easier to type them that way)

The main reason people would have left you is because you keep choosing that for them. You keep saying they shouldn't be around you. You keep saying that they shouldn't care. You keep saying that they're wrong to like you. I know you believe these things, Skeppio, but even if you won't or CAN'T stop thinking them, at least stop telling your friends these things! Stop choosing for them. It's their choice, not yours. You may think you're worthless, but you must stop attacking people for having a different opinion about it. Cos I'm sorry but if someone cares and you keep invalidating their feelings, it hurts them. And there will come a point where, as you've seen, you'll have hurt them enough that they can't take it anymore. And to protect themselves, they will keep their distance. And you can't really blame them for it. And it does NOT mean there's something wrong with you. But there is a lot wrong with what you're saying. Feel free to keep believing these nasty (and wrong) things about yourself, but at least stop attacking people with them.

You say you're not aware of what you're doing to alienate people. So I'm going to try to help by quoting the things you're saying right now that are problematic and explaining why.

Hell, I'm probably being lenient on myself, given how angry they were. And as I've said before, therapists can't bring these friends back. They can't make things better. Hell, I saw one for over a year and things looked pretty good. But everything kept crashing down, despite my best efforts. When my best is nowhere near good enough, what's left for me to do?

It's got nothing to do with not being lenient with yourself. It's got everything to do with ACTUALLY being lenient with yourself. See, what's hurting people who care about you is not that you don't beat yourself up enough. It's that you beat yourself up TOO MUCH. And while you do that, you loudly proclaim that they're wrong for caring. Triple the whilpash at them. No one likes to see the people they care about suffer. It's cos of empathy. So you're suffering (and no one can blame you for that), and that hurts to see. But then... you're the one beating yourself up. So that hurts double. And THEN you go and tell them they're wrong for caring. Triple hurt, right there. You can't stop suffering right now, okay. But you CAN stop two of those things: invalidating the feelings of your friends and beating yourself up.

Emotions aren't blinding me. If there was such good in my life, I wouldn't be so depressed. And if people care, why does no-one talk to me unless I goad them into responding? Seriously, it's the only way I can get anyone to even look my way for a minute!

You're not the only one who has more bad than good in their life. The amount of bad and good in your life is not what causes depression. ALL your world is about perception. Perception is how you see the world, and it's the entirety of your experience. You can focus on the good things and they'll grow right in front of your eyes and the bad things will seem smaller. But that takes effort, and a lot of it.

Also, I would like to note; Accusing me of "not wanting to get better" is a great way to drive me completely berserk (not that I can do anything, given you're not here in person). Just because I don't have the power to immediately fix my depression doesn't mean I don't want to. Hell, a therapist I saw frequently for over a year couldn't, does that mean he didn't want to help me?

Skeppio, you've come here (and elsewhere) time and time again with the same complaints and completely disregarded all advice. I gave you tried and true advice last time, not just about perception but also universal advice about how to turn thought repetition to your advantage. You dismissed all of it. There were exercises that take no therapist to complete. Exercises that work, that are recognized by prominent psychiatrists/psychologists. Exercises that are perfectly logical. You dismissed it all. Is it really surprising people would accuse you of not wanting to get better if you won't seemingly TRY to get better? I get the feeling you are of the idea that something just snaps its fingers and BAM! the depression is gone and you'll be completely happy. But you know what? That's not how it works. It's just like getting fit when you're a weak and scrawny thing. You don't just suddenly get muscley and all. You have to work to it, and you won't see much progress at first. And it's gradual and plenty of time later, you'll finally find you developed those muscles.

I didn't say they helped. I said their efforts still couldn't prevent everything from crashing down and fueling my depression all over again.

That's something only YOU can do.

A firm belief that has plenty of backing. All I do is ruin people's day and offer nothing of value. Sounds like something's pretty wrong to me. And I've changed things, but never for the better. This is derived from....well, all my past experiences worth mentioning.

You're choosing for people again. That's not your decision. Other people decide whether you offer something of value or not. Also, careful here. You just said that anyone who HASN'T left you is not worth mentioning

I don't get why though. I'm not a good investment. Care about someone else who needs it, they'll appreciate it a lot more.

And here you're telling your friends that you don't appreciate that they care about you. And for bonus points, you're telling them they are wrong for caring.

Um...my past life is a part of me. I'd be pretty arrogant and uncaring to suddenly deny it all or pretend it didn't happen. And I have no idea where you get the impression I'm a good roleplayer. Every bit of RP I've been in died, except the latest PbP game I was in, which I was recently removed from. I'm a horrible story-teller/writer, even worse than my artistic skill.

Yes, your past life is part of you. But it's there as a learning experience, not as a display of misery. Also... RPs don't die BECAUSE you're in them.

I'd love to change it, but what's the point? I've already lost all my friends, and anyone else who knows me will assume I'm gonna be a hateful sad-sack anyway no matter what.

And... you've just told your friends that they're not your friends. You're also choosing for everyone else. Sorry, Skeppio. But you're NOT the master of other people's minds. You are NOT psychic. You do NOT know what everyone thinks.

It's because I'm hateful, stupid, lazy, undisciplined, ugly, abrasive and an all-round failure.

That's your opinion, not that of others. And don't try to tell me you're "objectively" so. There's no objective value for all of that.

One happy droplet in an ocean of misery. I haven't even touched that dress in weeks, and haven't put on my polish in months. It's all in the past. One moment where I was arrogant enough to think someone would want to see me (yeah right, I'm as attractive as a car crash).

That one happy droplet can, if you will allow it, create a ripple effect that will change your whole perspective. Also attractiveness is subjective too. I think I'm waaaaaaaay uglier than you could ever be. Some people will agree, others will disagree. That's how it works. Some people will think you're uglier than a train wreck. Others will think you're the bee's knees. But THEY choose, not you.

The Skeppio you "knew" is long dead. She's never coming back. And I've been depressed for longer than the past few days. It's just, they've happened to fuel my depression more than usual. All previous progress was for nothing. It's all destroyed. If anything, I'm even worse. Back then I still had some very valuable friends to help me through the dark times. Now I have nothing.

You've just told anyone who still sticks by you that they're nothing. You've also told them that all the times they've helped you in the past didn't matter. But it did, Skeppio. If only for those moments, you knew a state of less depression. Seek it again.

It doesn't matter. Even if that Skeppio rose from the grave, her friends won't be there to welcome her back. They're gone. They've left me forever. Better to rot away than try to return to a world that's forgotten me.

What about the ones who, whether or not they talk a lot with you, are STILL your friends? You've just called them non-existent.

No I haven't. Find one stride forward that wasn't beaten by a leap backwards. You cannot. There is no hope for me and there never will be.

Only you can change that. But the no-hope thing? That's a lie. There's ALWAYS hope. See, that's the funny thing about hope. It's there precisely when nothing else is there, or when nothing else seems to be there. All it takes to have hope is to say "I hope things will be better." That's it. You want to have hope, there it is. Hold on to it, that's your decision too.

Good. I deserve negative impacts in my life. I'm not a lovely person, and if you've seen me anywhere else, that would be obvious. Whatever positive attitudes I may have once had, nothing of worth or value came as a result of them. And no-one cared.

Okay, here's another thing to get rid of. All this "I deserve" stuff? Forget about it. That's all opinion. NO ONE deserves any good or bad stuff. You MAKE your good/bad. People only deserve stuff in the eyes of people, not objectively.

Not gonna happen. If the people closest to me don't care and/or have had enough of me, what are the chances a random stranger will care about someone they've never met?

Well, if you keep deciding for them? Yeah, I'll grant you the chances are low. But without that intervention? Higher than you'd think.

And I ****ed that up, got into an argument and spoiled a cherished friendship with one of them, ruining the whole thing. Other playgrounders? Lost contact with them, and haven't heard back.

One argument doesn't ruin a friendship. Deciding it's ruined? Yeah, that hurts it more. How do you reach out to people, Skeppio? I hope it's not by telling them that they probably haven't contacted you because they must think you're awful.

There's hardly any, and I wouldn't remember most of them anyway. I pick through my life all the time, with a fine-toothed comb, and all I find are bad things I've done and times I've been miserable.

That's not a problem with your life. That's a problem with your using a fine-toothed comb just for the negative things. Find the good ones. Focus on those. Even if it's just ONE good thing. Focus on that. When you find a bad thing, then repeat to yourself "okay, this is bad, BUT at least I have this good thing that happened here". Do NOT tell yourself that it's just one small thing in a sea of bad. It's A good thing, and it doesn't matter how much bad surrounds it. A lot of that bad is your own creation. And you can turn it into a different creation. Perhaps not now. But later.

I'm BETTER than I was? Impossible, I couldn't possibly be worse than I am now. Even back then I had some redeeming qualities and friends who wanted to be around me of their own free will.

Again, you're saying your current friends don't exist.

I don't have to look very hard. And I'm already at the lowest possible point. I've lost everything I cherished, through my own fault, and now I'm beyond the point of recovery. I wish I was dead. At least then my outside would finally match my inside.

And you're telling the people who care about you that you don't care about them. No one is past the point of recovery.

Um, that's even worse. I'm so low, I'm talking about it and bringing others down with me.

Everyone in this thread, everyone I talk to elsewhere on the net, everyone I talk to in person, etc.

You're deciding people's reactions. That's no good.

I can see clearly that I'm infuriating people, making them miserable, making them want to give up and flip me the bird, etc. Hell, at this point I'd want to give me the middle finger too, and then a savage beating. I can see clearly that I'm upsetting people. If my attitude couldn't bring others down, I would never have lost the friendships that I treasured, and I wouldn't have plummeted into complete madness like I am.

Seriously, Skeppio, you don't decide this. Just because you'd give yourself the middle finger doesn't mean everyone else thinks the same. I don't want to give you the middle finger. I am being blunt because I think you need to hear it blunt in order to listen, cos you're not listening.

"See" was just a figure of speech. Don't be so literal. I mean from their posts, I can notice they're increasingly angry, frustrated and sick of me.

Again... you can't know that. Have you considered that you may be misreading all these signs?

I'm not just "fishing for a reaction". Do you think I'm actually well-adjusted and happy, and am acting miserable for fun? What kind of monster do you think I am?

I think it's more that you're "fishing" for validation. You don't feel things are okay, so you want people to tell you they are over and over and over again to make up for it. It's time you feel it yourself.

If I'm the only one upset by my posts and attitude, why do other people leave me? If they're not upset as well, why am I now minus a bunch of treasured friendships?

Cos you choose for them!

Oh, and I love how I'm accused of trolling now. Because it's so hard to belive anyone can actually be this unhappy. Stay classy.

Again, I think it's more that you want people to tell you it's fine over and over again. And as long as they do, you'll keep doing this. Maybe it's time people told you to read older posts, and that they've already answered that many times.

No, I mean they wouldn't have left me if they weren't pissed with me. They're happy now, because they no longer have to put up with me.

Once more, you try to decide for them. This is not something you get to decide.

Yes I do suffer from clinical depression, now that you mention it. Professional help didn't do squat.

If your professional experience mirrors what I've seen you do here... let me explain something. Help tells you which way to go. YOU have to walk it. What I've seen you do here is just say "No, I don't want to go that way." over and over and over. Come on, can you at least try the positive repetition? Look how low the negative one is taking you! It's completely rational that positive will at least counter the negative!

It's not absurd. People are frustrated and angry with me. I find it weird and shocking if someone doesn't have at least one reason to be upset with me. I've just accepted that no matter what I do, I'll **** it up and piss people off somehow.

I've already pointed out a bunch of things that you can *stop* doing. I'm sorry, but... you're not so prominent in everyone's lives that EVERYONE will have some reason to be upset with you. Most people in the world will NOT have ANY reason to be upset with you.

I hope I've pointed out enough problematic things that you'll realize at least some of the behaviours you should change to make things that much better for you. I wish I had a nice, fitting ending paragraph, but I think I vastly overestimated the amount of spoons I had to begin with, and I can't think of anything. Just... realize people care about you, Skeppio, whether you want it or not, and you should just accept it. Once you do... you can go from there. Positive repetition will do wonders, too. Best of luck, Skeppio.

[The Fury]

Um, that's even worse. I'm so low, I'm talking about it and bringing others down with me.

Everyone in this thread, everyone I talk to elsewhere on the net, everyone I talk to in person, etc.

I can see clearly that I'm infuriating people, making them miserable, making them want to give up and flip me the bird, etc. Hell, at this point I'd want to give me the middle finger too, and then a savage beating. I can see clearly that I'm upsetting people. If my attitude couldn't bring others down, I would never have lost the friendships that I treasured, and I wouldn't have plummeted into complete madness like I am.

Skeppio, I understand what it's like to feel this way. I've felt this way too. That said, please try to understand that I don't hate you, I don't feel like you're bringing me down, you're not making me angry. Obviously I can't speak for everyone but as near as I can tell, everyone on this thread would like to help you. All I can really offer, I'm afraid is to be a sort of sounding board. Actual, useful advice for dealing with depression just isn't something I can even attempt to provide. I'll admit that it's a small help at its very best, but please, don't feel like I'll reject you for feeling sad.

[WarKitty]

I do not know what's going on with me.

Major crisis, again. This time a landlord being really creepy. Lots of problems.

I just don't get it. Every time I hear, these things are part of life, but they're just not that common.

And then, like clockwork, they happen to me. I've run stuff by friends. I'm not making something from nothing. If anything I'm waiting too long, ignoring my instincts when someone is bad because the people around me say it's fine.

But then I keep being reassured that major crises don't happen that often.

I don't get it. I don't get what to do when bad things seem to happen, and keep happening, at an improbable rate. I hear people telling me to just move on and don't worry about these things. But they happen. A lot. Crises caused by external factors, things I couldn't really forsee or solve. And I'm left wondering why I keep pushing on with my life when it seems like about once a year on average someone comes and screws everything up for me. This time it's being threatened out of my home. Last time it was health to the point where I couldn't work. The time before it was not being able to talk to any of my friends because someone made a complaint.

I don't know what's going on. If I'm doing something I don't know what it is, other than that I seem to have a giant "vulnerable" sign on me. But if I start to prepare for this stuff I get called paranoid.

[The Fury]

WarKitty, if you feel like you need to prepare for the worst to keep peace of mind then I guess that's how it is. For my own part I'd be hesitant to call that "paranoid," and at the very least you seem justified. In the meantime, try to hope for the best.

[WarKitty]

WarKitty, if you feel like you need to prepare for the worst to keep peace of mind then I guess that's how it is. For my own part I'd be hesitant to call that "paranoid," and at the very least you seem justified. In the meantime, try to hope for the best.

The thing is, I really don't want to be living this way. And it makes me feel like it's impossible for me to get help in a way that makes sense to me, because I keep getting told "don't worry crises like that don't happen that often." I'd like if someone would tell me something fixable that I could do.

So far as I can tell...the best I can see is that somehow people expect me to be quieter and more accommodating than others. So I feel like I get retaliation a LOT when I stand up for myself. I often feel like the reactions I get are as though I were a child mouthing off (I've even had people say that directly to me in multiple cases), rather than an adult to be worked with.

[The Fury]

So far as I can tell...the best I can see is that somehow people expect me to be quieter and more accommodating than others. So I feel like I get retaliation a LOT when I stand up for myself. I often feel like the reactions I get are as though I were a child mouthing off (I've even had people say that directly to me in multiple cases), rather than an adult to be worked with.

That sounds really unfair. While it's a fine thing to be accommodating, you are allowed to stand up for yourself. After all, everyone has their limits. The impression that I'm getting is that your feelings are being trivialized, though if that's wrong please correct me.

[WarKitty]

That sounds really unfair. While it's a fine thing to be accommodating, you are allowed to stand up for yourself. After all, everyone has their limits. The impression that I'm getting is that your feelings are being trivialized, though if that's wrong please correct me.

That's some of it. A lot of the situations I'm mentioning were actual, legal-level issues, where I was having legal rights violated because someone else decided to treat me as a child. For example, a therapist deciding to violate confidentiality told me I was "threatening" her for calmly and confidently stating that she did NOT have my consent. The latest case had the unfortunately not uncommon followup of the individual being utterly confused in that he had been "so nice" - nice here being basically treating me as a child that the grown-ups are indulging.

And I feel like it's really hard to get any meaningful help, because when I try to seek help it's dismissed as all a coincidence. Or when I express my frustrating at having to prepare for such things, or my anxiety at situations that could turn bad, I get labelled paranoid. I do overreact sometimes, but still, this stuff happens with depressing and uncanny frequency for me.

Basically, I feel like I've been cast into the poor sweet little thing role. People think they're being nice by treating me that way, and they're shocked when I actually stand up to them. Because I don't want pity or indulgence or rescuing. I want to be treated as a competent adult.

[The Fury]

That's some of it. A lot of the situations I'm mentioning were actual, legal-level issues, where I was having legal rights violated because someone else decided to treat me as a child. For example, a therapist deciding to violate confidentiality told me I was "threatening" her for calmly and confidently stating that she did NOT have my consent. The latest case had the unfortunately not uncommon followup of the individual being utterly confused in that he had been "so nice" - nice here being basically treating me as a child that the grown-ups are indulging.

And I feel like it's really hard to get any meaningful help, because when I try to seek help it's dismissed as all a coincidence. Or when I express my frustrating at having to prepare for such things, or my anxiety at situations that could turn bad, I get labelled paranoid. I do overreact sometimes, but still, this stuff happens with depressing and uncanny frequency for me.

Basically, I feel like I've been cast into the poor sweet little thing role. People think they're being nice by treating me that way, and they're shocked when I actually stand up to them. Because I don't want pity or indulgence or rescuing. I want to be treated as a competent adult.

Wow, that didn't sound like a terribly professional thing for your therapist to do. It's a sad thing when someone is so convinced that they're "being nice" that they can't notice when they do or say things that are hurtful. I've been guilty of this too-- if I have done this with you, please let me apologize. You're correct as well, in saying that it's very difficult to find meaningful help. The best that I'm able to do is try to provide whatever understanding and encouragement I can. Though in the interest of disclosure, I'm a highly dysfunctional person so I'm bound to mess up. If it helps to have another person acknowledge this, wanting to be treated as a capable adult isn't an unreasonable thing to ask. Anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong.

[WarKitty]

Wow, that didn't sound like a terribly professional thing for your therapist to do. It's a sad thing when someone is so convinced that they're "being nice" that they can't notice when they do or say things that are hurtful. I've been guilty of this too-- if I have done this with you, please let me apologize. You're correct as well, in saying that it's very difficult to find meaningful help. The best that I'm able to do is try to provide whatever understanding and encouragement I can. Though in the interest of disclosure, I'm a highly dysfunctional person so I'm bound to mess up. If it helps to have another person acknowledge this, wanting to be treated as a capable adult isn't an unreasonable thing to ask. Anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong.

It's ok - it's helpful to have someone listen.

The best way I can put it is, it's like the other person starts from the mindset that they're granting me privileges. When I'm thinking that the things are just stuff I should get (even in several cases things I am legally entitled to). So then they get upset at me for not being grateful for everything they've done.

[onionbreath]

Suppose you're a guy who has been married 10 years and has two kids. How often should you expect to get lucky?

[TaiLiu]

Suppose you're a guy who has been married 10 years and has two kids. How often should you expect to get lucky?

I don't understand your question.