Worldbuilding Talk Thread

[Yora]

Lazy? That's how pretty much all regions in most settings are created.
My setting is mostly the High Forest from Forgotten Realms and Xen'drik from Eberron, with the Broken Isles from Warcraft 3 and the North Downs, Evendim, and Forochel from LotRO. And almost all of the cities are taken from various RPGs.
The key is to take the basic idea that you like and develop it into something of your own. Same as with monsters, races, and organizations. You almost never make up something from out of nothing.

[Tzi]

Lazy? That's how pretty much all regions in most settings are created.
My setting is mostly the High Forest from Forgotten Realms and Xen'drik from Eberron, with the Broken Isles from Warcraft 3 and the North Downs, Evendim, and Forochel from LotRO. And almost all of the cities are taken from various RPGs.
The key is to take the basic idea that you like and develop it into something of your own. Same as with monsters, races, and organizations. You almost never make up something from out of nothing.

I'm thinking of taking the region of Aglarond from Forgotten Realms and just placing it, and then editing it to fit, but using the already finished and fleshed out country. Mainly because I have a well fleshed out setting, but its mostly kinda general.

Like I have a major world religion and a bunch of smaller ones. And then sectarian rifts within this fairly new growing religion. A bunch of countries mostly outlined with key details, and a handful of cities and empires. And then named continents and oceans, defined races and a fairly defined global history.

But really the world just needs one fleshed out finished country to be playable IMHO. I feel I'm good at creating "Context," for a country but bad at creating the actual lands to campaign in.

My concept is to take Aglarond, rewrite some of it to a more Morocco/Spain styled land. The core "drama," or conflict is the Kingdom is a mostly trade and sea faring oriented country locked in steadily rising tensions with neighbors and general threats that this country is attempting to weather. For one, the nation is in a sectarian conflict with an Imperial neighbor practically at it's doorstep. It's neighbor developing a more hard-lined belief and some factions declare this countries brand of faith apostasy. They would also have another large and powerful Empire that may be looking at them as a future province, or possibly an old lost province they wish to retake. Others simply wish to settle and foreigners bring outside culture and traditions, and a massive drow city-state is a tough one to appease. The small land is effectively in a diplomatic bind and balancing act.

[Curbstomp]

For Drow-

In my last setting I made them denizens of the Shadow Plane. The culture remain intact but they followed a shadow goddess instead of their normal deity. Their matriarchs were interested in immortality and thus often sent raiders to the material plane to acquire means of extending their lives. They wanted to capture magic items and certain materials like Star Metal. This added an element of conflict to the setting.

[Tzi]

So, religion, religion building has typically been a weak suite for me, PARTICULARLY because I'm fairly wishy washy on Gods and Goddesses and don't like spending a lot of time on them.

HOWEVER, for a campaign world I've crafted at least one very large world religion. The idea being it is a very factionalized religion with many sects, but is one of the first "universal faiths." A kind of Judao-Islam-Christianity.

Spoiler: Nazraeli, The Trinitarian God and its Followers

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Nazraeli is partly a syncretic faith of ancient religions dating back into pre-history. Originating from both the Elven ancient God Ra, the Human moon deity El and the developed concept of the Over-Soul or Naz. Came together in a tripartite deity called Nazrael. In the vast Deserts of Kesh, were the once might Elves of Kesh lived before the fertile grasslands died away, this faith was born. As this God is said to have visited the prophets, specifically first the great shepherd Gideon. This deity proclaimed “I am the Lord, I am the Soul above all others, and you and I are one, I am the Sun, the Moon and the Stars.” Naz is associated with Stars, El with the Moon, and Ra with the Sun. Forging the idea of a trinity as one single entity.
El, the Moon. Is depicted as a woman. The Divine Mother, Shining Queen of Heaven, and sometimes either a Maiden, a mature Woman and then an elderly woman.

Ra, is at times merely a powerful warrior, a shepherd, a pillar of fire, the Sun itself, a burning tree or bush, or an Alicorn with a golden horn.
Naz, the Stars, is faceless, but occupies the ever changing stars, the Dreams, the Destinies and ultimately the Soul all shall merge with in death if they have lived righteous lives and fulfilled their “Sunna,” Or purpose.

Divine will is carried out most often with angelic astral beings associated with the wandering stars and celestial bodies seen as heralds and messengers of Nazrael. Or via divine messengers to mortals as was the case with the ancient shepherd prophet Gideon whom was visited first by a great falling star that created an endless pillar of fire, then by an Alicorn, and finally by the moon itself in the form of a woman atop a mountain.
Within this religious system exists a litany of stories and fables to instruct the faithful in morality. Pillars of faith that instruct in ritual purity, piety, and prayer. And finally prophecies and guides. From religious parables people derive ideas about life, from proper dietary concerns to how one is to manage money. For example the faithful often shun the mixing of certain foods and outright prohibit the consumption of pork, have various days of fasting, and a sacramental ritual involving the consumption of anointed bread and grain alcohol as “mana,” during certain rituals.

The Core Canon, the Kabba and other Holy Texts
At the faiths core is the Kabba, which forms the core texts and canon of Nazraeli. This is divided into three major books which describes both the origins of life, the soul, and the first encounters between man and god (The first five books called the Tani), Parable's given by Nazrael to many prophets such as Gideon that form the basis of Ethics, Government and Daily life (The three books considered part of the Kura), Mysticism, Ritual Magic, Prophecy and Divination (Contained in 7 parts, the collection of which is called the Sohar). From the core texts legions of tomes exist interpreting it, as older Keshian is often called a language of riddles and perplexing meanings. And reading their holy texts at face value CAN leave one confused as at times the book may contradict itself or be so difficult to grasp or translate that no complete translations exist. Likewise the religion invites scholastic pursuits of knowledge and enlightenment but also vigorous debate among it's scholars over the meaning of parables, fables, riddles and words attributed to God and Angels. Interpretive editions are often called the Rashidi, which itself forms roughly seventy seven separate books that themselves reference other scholastic works and comprises of web of complex argumentation and scholastic research on the Kabba itself. This very diffused nature has led to numerous sectarian fissures within the community, especially following the deaths of the Prophets Gideon, Issachar, and Hagar. Many nations often have their own preferred sects, and sometimes politically this becomes a core contention among the faithful.

Schisms and Factions
One of the largest enduring factional schisms is first between whom should lead in faith. Currently a few nations tend to derive their leadership as being from the "Line of Gideonites." Others have elected faith leaders or find descent from other famed prophets to be just as good. This forms a huge geopolitical struggle between the Keldrashnim, and the Sabylians. The Sabylian Caliphate is both a civil and theocratic government with a Caliph chosen from the Line of Gideonite Kings. Usually from a tribe with ancestry traced to one of Gideons sons or Daughters. The Keldrashni or Keldrens, Separate their civil leader from most matters of faith. The King is the Sultan, and he or she entrusts a committee of Ayatollah, or Faith leaders and scholars. Though the Sultan still can issue ruling on faith, the Keldrashni tend not.

Other factional splits are between the Millennialists/Messianic and Nirvanists. Generally defined around the alleged prophecy's given to Hagar at the "Mountain of Perdition." Said to describe something only refereed to once by name as the "Silver Millennium," or "Silver Kingdom," or the "Silver One," Depending on ones translation and interpretation. Millennialists believe in a coming battle between good and evil, an apocalyptic war were the forces of the void and wickness will battle the righteous in cosmic struggle. Rashidi texts refer to this as a "War in Heaven." Often this ideology leads to holy wars and goals of conquest and global conversion to face this future darkness and prepare for the birth of Messiah whom will be from the Shining Queen in Heaven. This will usher in allegedly a new age for the world of peace and harmony. Nirvanists believe this is purely metaphorical and describes the journey of the soul into the afterlife, and that tend to call it the "Silver Kingdom," Or to be one with God. A variant of Nirvanists is often called Messianic however as it believes that a real age may come when a great spiritual awakening will happen when a child of Nazrael will be born though this sect is fairly new and not widespread as the other two.

Finally there are what are called the Zealots, or sometimes Idol Smashers or sometimes simply the Puritans vs the Henots or Synchreticists. Ironically a faith born of Synchreticism has some whom call the very practice heretical and apostasy. Puritans believe Nazrael is the only God, and all others are demons and delusions. Synchreticists maintain an oversoul view, that Nazrael is the incarnation of the Over Soul, other Gods and Goddesses are angels, messengers, demons, or faces of Nazrael as revealed by differing dispensations. This division is however less black and white. While Zealots are very hard lined they are few and far between. Most believe in some form of Synchreticism. Old Gods are reorganized as Saints, Angels, Demi-Gods, Fey Spirits ect.

Good? Bad? Nonsense?

[Yora]

I could use some ideas from you guys:

I am working on the history of my setting and how a small number of major events are still remembered as turning points that changed the world and resulted in the current political constilations and conflict.
There is a kind of cult of assassins, who kill to test and perfect their skills to gain some kind of enlightenment about the reality of life and death. They don't do it for the money, but for the challenge and the glory among their peers. The prices they demand for their services depend on what each considers appropriate based on the importance of the target, the wealth of the employer, and the "rightousness" of the assassination. Their wage may be outrageous, unbelievably cheap, or they may outright refuse to do it if they somehow feel it isn't right. And about three generations ago, four of them decided to challenge each other to pull off the most successful rampage of assassinating major political leaders. So over the next two months they managed to kill three kings and four major chiefs, and a couple of court officials. One of them got killed, and at some point the remaining three agreed that their trial had reached a conclusion and simply stopped. However, while there was some suspicion that their group was behind the killings, nobody had any clue about the motive or the identity of the nonexistend employer. So lots of the rulers were afraid of coming under attack by their enemies, or considered the chaotic situation a perfect opportunity to attack their enemies while they were in disarray.

Cool so far, but the one problem I have is, that I don't really have any idea how it affected things in the long term. Enough time has passed for things to settle down, but a few of the people in power at that time are still around. In some cases, people may have realized that they blamed innocents for the assassinations and their retaliation attacks where completely unfounded. But of course, they won't openly admit it that way. Any ideas how current issues could still be related to that? Like things that happened in World War 1 might still cause trouble today?

[Everyl]

I could use some ideas from you guys:

I am working on the history of my setting and how a small number of major events are still remembered as turning points that changed the world and resulted in the current political constilations and conflict.
There is a kind of cult of assassins, who kill to test and perfect their skills to gain some kind of enlightenment about the reality of life and death. They don't do it for the money, but for the challenge and the glory among their peers. The prices they demand for their services depend on what each considers appropriate based on the importance of the target, the wealth of the employer, and the "rightousness" of the assassination. Their wage may be outrageous, unbelievably cheap, or they may outright refuse to do it if they somehow feel it isn't right. And about three generations ago, four of them decided to challenge each other to pull off the most successful rampage of assassinating major political leaders. So over the next two months they managed to kill three kings and four major chiefs, and a couple of court officials. One of them got killed, and at some point the remaining three agreed that their trial had reached a conclusion and simply stopped. However, while there was some suspicion that their group was behind the killings, nobody had any clue about the motive or the identity of the nonexistend employer. So lots of the rulers were afraid of coming under attack by their enemies, or considered the chaotic situation a perfect opportunity to attack their enemies while they were in disarray.

Cool so far, but the one problem I have is, that I don't really have any idea how it affected things in the long term. Enough time has passed for things to settle down, but a few of the people in power at that time are still around. In some cases, people may have realized that they blamed innocents for the assassinations and their retaliation attacks where completely unfounded. But of course, they won't openly admit it that way. Any ideas how current issues could still be related to that? Like things that happened in World War 1 might still cause trouble today?

Did the assassinations lead to any actual wars or insurrections? You talked about some people pouncing on others' weakness, but that can mean anything from further contract killings to invading and seizing border provinces. Newly-crowned monarchs might declare war on their neighbors as much to secure their own power with a show of strength as to get revenge on someone they only vaguely suspect of killing their parent. Nations who did not suffer major losses among their leaders might try to grab land or resources while their bereaved neighbors are still trying to figure out who will succeed the unexpectedly-deceased leader. The result could be that many borders are uneasy to this day - ethnic minorities in conquered territories might still wish to reunite with their "motherland," the sons and grandsons of the kings who lost land in the chaos might be eyeing provinces for re-acquisition, and there could be very high ethnic tensions in conquered territories that have had many people from the conquering lands move in. Or, if any of the kingdoms that were disrupted had provinces that they held only weakly, it's possible that local lords (or even ambitious non-nobles) might have broken away, establishing independent nations.

[Yora]

Good point. I believe I have to think about this some more and how it can be applied to a basically tribal society. Occupation and assimilation are rather unusual in such situations, but I think there's some potential for a few unique cases.

It just occured to me that if I make it more recent, people could still have grudges about the reshuffling of positions of power in the aftermath. Instead of being the reason for a couple of conflicts between domains, it could be a source of lots of internal conflicts. Those are something my setting is still lacking.

[Tzi]

Cultures.... I've hit a tiny bit of roadblock on this front.

Part of it is my inherit problem of "mono-cultures," or like An entire fantasy race possess the same culture throughout. Specifically I am sitting staring at my "Dark Elves," Or Drow looking Elves and am thinking "What do they do?"

My initial notes are "Night Elves meet Dunmer and Victorian Steampunk?" Which made little sense, Like The idea that they build cities akin to the Dunmer and maybe some Japan/Night Elf architectural styles but are highly technically advanced with knowledge of railway lines, steam powered machines and industry. So instead of worshiping trees they would be more into rocks and runes.

But then I stopped and had to wonder, were ALL Dark Elves like this? Or would there be differences of opinion leading to different colonies of Dark Elves having different cultures?

How do you guys resolve this?

[GreaserFish]

A way to solve the monoculture issue is by the inclusion of distinct ethnic groups within a race. Germans and French have a similar cultural and racial background, for instance, but Greeks are from their own distinct group. In my own setting I've been working on, there are multiple ethnic groups defined for all races, drawing off of real-world groups with similar cultures.

[Yora]

I think of the people in my setting as regional cultures first, with their race being a secondary trait.

[Everyl]

I think of the people in my setting as regional cultures first, with their race being a secondary trait.

I try to split the difference between this and racial cultures. No race is a monoculture, but I try to think about how each race's traits would color a culture that is dominated by that race.

Spoiler: Long-winded example from my own setting

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For example, in my setting, gnolls are nearly strict carnivores; while gnoll cultures will vary considerably from one another, pretty much every gnoll-only community is going to be based around hunting, fishing, and/or herding as their primary ways of life. Gnolls who live in minority populations among other races are going to have very different cultures and subcultures shaped by the communities they live in, but they will always have some way of producing or acquiring the meat (and/or dairy) they need as staple foods.

Dwarven cultures, meanwhile, have a rather poor concept of "regular business hours." Dwarves are one of the few races in my setting that has darkvision without any light sensitivity, meaning they can see pretty well in light or dark, day or night, above ground or underground. Subterranean communities don't regulate time by the sun, and surface-dwelling communities can conduct most normal chores and tasks day or night, though they still prefer to travel during the day when above ground (since darkvision has fairly poor range over outdoor distances). This means that dwarven communities, regardless of parent culture, tend to be bustling regardless of time of day, even if they're otherwise as different as traditional human cultures from different continents are from one another.

The key thing is that I'm trying to avoid letting racial stereotypes shape these racial cultural influences. Dwarves don't have underground communities because all dwarves love digging and mining, they have underground communities because they're well-suited to it, and dwarf cultures from regions where the earth is poor for tunneling live aboveground without batting an eye. Elves don't live in forests because they're tree-hugging nature hippies, though some of their cultures do practice extreme, centuries-spanning forestry practices that turn large swaths of forest into orchard-cities. Other elves turn their long generational perspective toward different goals, better suited toward whatever climate or biome they happen to live in.

And when you have cosmopolitan communities with substantial populations of several different races, you wind up with the races falling into different roles in society. Maybe dwarves are commonly recruited as guardsmen, because they tend to be willing to work at all hours of the day or night. Settled gnolls are often found working at the docks, doing heavy labor for fishermen and getting a good deal on fish for their trouble, though once a year their population booms when the herders who live in the too-dry-for-farming plains bring in the annual cattle drive. Elves work a wide variety of jobs in all walks of life, but the most famous tend to be the educated ones who are responsible for urban planning, higher education, and, often, advising whoever is in charge at the moment.

If a race doesn't have any traits interesting enough to provide a unique color to the cultures they are a part of, I give them one. The decision to make gnolls strict meat-and-dairy eaters was one of those changes, and just the implications of that little change on their culture makes them far more interesting than the marauding hyena-men savages in the MM. If a race is just pointy-eared humans, then why would their cultures look any different from humans, except with pointy ears?

[QED - Iltazyara]

I think, perhaps, one reason you're having trouble realising culture separation with dark elves is that you are trying to subset what was originally a subset, dark elves; drow, being a sub race and culture of elves. So you have less 'traditional' points to work off of when compared to elves as a whole, who can be split between high, wood, wild, fey, sea and city by most people quite easily, with obvious examples for each.

For dark elves, unless you want to create whole cultures from the ground up, it may be worth looking at svartálfar and dökkálfar, black elves and dark elves respectively. With the concept of them being technologically advanced, in the dunmer root, there is some connection to dwarves and the svartálfar. Both of them, well they may actually be the same thing, are generally norse in origin and would have some connection to runes.

Otherwise look at the drow, both faerunian and eberronian, the dunmer of elder scrolls and any other sources you can think of. From there I'd recommend noting all their major traits, such as the cruelty of faerun, the tribal and painted nature in eberron, the technology and secrecy of the dunmer, and then figure out your own subcultures from the list. It lets people have a connection to the race through media they know, but can have your own twist on it.

Worldbuilding is about working with tropes and letting people recognise them without feeling they are overly cliche.

Personally, my dark elves are a mono-culture, but they only occupy a single region, so that makes sense. Mono-cultures would exist, so long as they are not a widespread and sprawling people. And by widespread I mean an area bigger than ireland is pushing for 'widespread', unless the expansion was very rapid and the populace is still governed centrally.

[Tzi]

So far I'm trending towards maybe being able to except some casual "Mono-Culture,"

The set up right now is that the world has one central government and then a series of "Colony States," or Commonwealth lands mostly chartered out to ethnic/racial enclaves. To use the United States as an analogue. You have Pennsylvania except the entire, or almost the entire population speaks Drow and is Drow Elves, then you have Vermont were its mostly Humans and Half-Elves who share the Maebitic (A rough analog of Gaelic) language and culture, then you have another colony or union of colonies Keldra, Sabylia ect whom share a similar religion. Then you have a predominately mercantile colony, and a mining based colony, and ect ect.

The Drow/Dark Elves of "New Viconia," their culture could be summed up as a hodgepodge of Celtic-Japanese architecture and customs with an Earth based religion. Using Fall From Heaven Civ 4 Mod as reference, they are more into Runes then Leaves and worship in sacred nature shrines and caves. Stones and Crystals has greater religious significance then say Bark and Grass. Then the major cultural divisions are between the more clannish rural areas and the more urban and industrial cities.

As just an example.

[infinitetech]

so tho i play many existing rpgs i have also been developing 3 distinct games of my own, one thing common to all is my system of world gen, i made a map building system that allows you to make random maps from the ground up, literally shaping a whole planet, it allows for easy input of special areas, (aka time bubbles, alignment vortexes, realm hopping gateways, and much more) along with changes in height making interesting landscape, a system to randomly or manually create sea level, calculations to create climate zones, weather patterns and more

then there is an overlay for resources which helps the system for racial distribution, natural city growth, and trade routes

from these factors i build faiths, cultures, traditions, and base "cultural personalities"

after this you choose setting, factor it into the numbers, and you have a base world map, next there is a list that shows conflict causes and you roll to see if they have/are/will happen

then choose a local zone aka one map tile, zoom it, aka becomes a roughly 500 x 500 mile zone that there is a sub map gen based on the big tiles

then based on the issues that happened nearby and other factors you can add in the various interesting features, such as caves, temples, towns, huts...

if anyone wishes to try a world out id be happy to whip one up to show you, just msg me, id post a file, but it is all analog data sorry, i like my manual dice rolls still tho i may use electronic for an example, just to speed things up, so far my system can create pretty much any feature in any world i've heard of

[Yora]

I am currently having a break from RPGs, but trying to make some attempts at writing medium-length fiction. And since I've been working on my setting mostly based on what I enjoy from books, movies, and linear videogames (not so much considering game mechanics) and I think it's a great world, I think it will be working just as fine, and perhaps even better as a story setting.

And now it occured to me that creating a setting for stories seems to be hugely simpler than writing settings for RPGs. In a story setting, you really only have to make sure that you don't introduce anything that doesn't contradict previously established facts. But in an RPG setting, you need to have the entire magic system, technology, transport options, landscape, wildlife, and power groups in place from the start, because these will all be tools from which the players can select their options what they are going to do next. And it's not even just the huge settings like Forgotten Realms or Eberron. Even RPG settings of relatively moderare size have so many places and people which are absolutely irrelevant to stories, even if you'd be writing ten of them, set in completely different environments.
If you would create a futuristic Europe for a novel or movie, it would be enough to know that there are Great Britain, France, Germany, and Spain, with maybe Portugal and Belgium for some additional flavor, and all the actual information on cities you'd need would be London, Paris, Berlin, Hamburg, Madrid, and Barcelona. Just so you have the ability to reference other places where some secondary characters come from and which might be visited in later stories.

For my RPG campaign, I only had a very bare bones skeleton of the geography and the cities, and most I had was culture, except for one very small region that was a cluster of a few villages. But as a setting for stories, I already have a huge amount of background info I can use. Easily enough to compare to Hyborea from the Conan stories in scale.

Only thing that is not easier to any degree: Naming things.

[akma]

*Stuff about how you need to have the world much less fleshed out for a story then for a setting*

Yes, it is a big advandage. On the other hand, it's a bit of a bummer when you have a lot of background information you want to include but know you realy shouldn't because it's irrelevent.

Only thing that is not easier to any degree: Naming things.

I have suggestins on that, depending if you want to have names with meaning or not. If not, I suggest using a random name generator and tweaking the result, worked great for me the few times I used it. If you want a meaning then it becomes a logical process - babies could be named based on their appearence, or maybe people choose their own name after reaching a certain age. Names could be believed to effect a child fate, certain names could be considered cursed (could be used by parents who hate their newborn, or by people seeking to mock that belief).

[Don Quixote]

I need some assistance from you fine fellow knights-errant, the world i built is an early iron age setting based around a central sea on which is a floating island of basically Indonesian Venice, for context entire civilizations get by without any metal at all, the idea of getting on a horses back is ludicrous and chariots are the king of battle Advanced things such as crossbow exist as early prototypes but only in the centers of learning and technology like the Ziggurats of Dur Namarazu or the courts of HueHueCoatltlan. Gods definitely exist but in my setting are more of sufficiently advanced aliens in that they are explicitly not supernatural, but no-one at the time can tell seeing as they use such whimsical inventions as lighters, telescopes, submarines and airships. I'm having difficult because my party have already destroyed a death god's airship and a storm god's submarine and i'm having great difficulty in thinking of a suitable follow up. Any advice would be extremely helpful.

[infinitetech]

I am currently having a break from RPGs, but trying to make some attempts at writing medium-length fiction. And since I've been working on my setting mostly based on what I enjoy from books, movies, and linear videogames (not so much considering game mechanics) and I think it's a great world, I think it will be working just as fine, and perhaps even better as a story setting.

And now it occured to me that creating a setting for stories seems to be hugely simpler than writing settings for RPGs. In a story setting, you really only have to make sure that you don't introduce anything that doesn't contradict previously established facts. But in an RPG setting, you need to have the entire magic system, technology, transport options, landscape, wildlife, and power groups in place from the start, because these will all be tools from which the players can select their options what they are going to do next. And it's not even just the huge settings like Forgotten Realms or Eberron. Even RPG settings of relatively moderare size have so many places and people which are absolutely irrelevant to stories, even if you'd be writing ten of them, set in completely different environments.
If you would create a futuristic Europe for a novel or movie, it would be enough to know that there are Great Britain, France, Germany, and Spain, with maybe Portugal and Belgium for some additional flavor, and all the actual information on cities you'd need would be London, Paris, Berlin, Hamburg, Madrid, and Barcelona. Just so you have the ability to reference other places where some secondary characters come from and which might be visited in later stories.

For my RPG campaign, I only had a very bare bones skeleton of the geography and the cities, and most I had was culture, except for one very small region that was a cluster of a few villages. But as a setting for stories, I already have a huge amount of background info I can use. Easily enough to compare to Hyborea from the Conan stories in scale.

Only thing that is not easier to any degree: Naming things.

what exactly are you asking for help on?

[infinitetech]

I need some assistance from you fine fellow knights-errant, the world i built is an early iron age setting based around a central sea on which is a floating island of basically Indonesian Venice, for context entire civilizations get by without any metal at all, the idea of getting on a horses back is ludicrous and chariots are the king of battle Advanced things such as crossbow exist as early prototypes but only in the centers of learning and technology like the Ziggurats of Dur Namarazu or the courts of HueHueCoatltlan. Gods definitely exist but in my setting are more of sufficiently advanced aliens in that they are explicitly not supernatural, but no-one at the time can tell seeing as they use such whimsical inventions as lighters, telescopes, submarines and airships. I'm having difficult because my party have already destroyed a death god's airship and a storm god's submarine and i'm having great difficulty in thinking of a suitable follow up. Any advice would be extremely helpful.

so you have defeated water and air, now you need a burrower(drill) for ground, and something for fire, maybe fire appears when the other 3 are gone and it is a serpent dragon machine that lives in lava (able to do all 3 other things travel), it is a god itself, tho once killed you can pilot it, then you get into why the lake in the middle is there... may i suggest a portal to another realm deep deep below the center? use COC for the boss down there, in the deep oceans, under the dark waters ;-)

[Yora]

what exactly are you asking for help on?

Nothing. No question in there. Just conversation.

[Don Quixote]

so you have defeated water and air, now you need a burrower(drill) for ground, and something for fire, maybe fire appears when the other 3 are gone and it is a serpent dragon machine that lives in lava (able to do all 3 other things travel), it is a god itself, tho once killed you can pilot it, then you get into why the lake in the middle is there... may i suggest a portal to another realm deep deep below the center? use COC for the boss down there, in the deep oceans, under the dark waters ;-)

Serpent dragon machine that lives in lava... Dear Quetzacoatl that's perfect. Well, that's my finale sorted.

[infinitetech]

Serpent dragon machine that lives in lava... Dear Quetzacoatl that's perfect. Well, that's my finale sorted.

normally my partymembers start running the moment they hear me say "you hear a..." lol, glad you like the idea, and if they wish to go epic you can take them into the planar portal to an outer ream

[Tzi]

How Modern is TOO MODERN for d20 fantasy games?

So a friend has been the first and only criticism to my game world thus far, criticizing its "excessive modern ****," and it got me thinking? Is there a boundary on tech levels in games? To summarize my campaign world I'd call it Sci-Fantasy...

Spoiler: Brief overview

Show

Astaria is a planet named for the Ancient High Elven Titan of the Sea due to the worlds 80%ish ocean coverage. The world was colonized when many races gathered to build crafts to teleport to other worlds and escape the doom of their old homeworld after a near apocalyptic war rendered it nearly lifeless. The 10 million souls have in the course of 500 years grown to nearly 70 million inhabitants stretched over 1/3rd of the worlds landmass. Much struggle has happened as resources are not easily gotten and Astaria's intense winter storm and rain seasons make life difficult.

Technologically this is an Industrial age society, were even the Elves have a textile mill or two. Think 1850-1925 in terms of technological wonders that due exist. Though many have fallen into disuse due to a lack of material resources to support them. Guns tend to be magic-tech and alchemically driven firearms. Medicine is fairly capable with hospitals, surgeons, doctors and alchemical sciences. Automobiles exist and are used but fuel shortages sometimes make them unwise, and electricity is in use as well as a combination telegraph/text messaging service called Voxograph. Essentially a limited telegram that can process a handful of text characters and send them over long mithril wires and messages are typed via type writer.

It is in this world we have Drow, High Elves, Humans, Half Elves, Aasimaar, Tieflings and all our favorite races....

But my friends criticism is simply that the presence of things like pistols, or even laser guns detracts from the fantasy element of it all.

I defend myself by stating that many of my stories and quest tend to revolve around Mystery, Politics and Horror. With quests inspired by Innsmouth, the Russian Revolution and Communist uprising in general, horrifying medical experiments, Occultic rituals, ect ect.

But my friend argues rather intensely that these things are just not suited to Fifth Edition D&D or any fantasy oriented game world.

SOOOO What technology do you guys use?

[infinitetech]

How Modern is TOO MODERN for d20 fantasy games?

So a friend has been the first and only criticism to my game world thus far, criticizing its "excessive modern ****," and it got me thinking? Is there a boundary on tech levels in games? To summarize my campaign world I'd call it Sci-Fantasy...

Spoiler: Brief overview

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Astaria is a planet named for the Ancient High Elven Titan of the Sea due to the worlds 80%ish ocean coverage. The world was colonized when many races gathered to build crafts to teleport to other worlds and escape the doom of their old homeworld after a near apocalyptic war rendered it nearly lifeless. The 10 million souls have in the course of 500 years grown to nearly 70 million inhabitants stretched over 1/3rd of the worlds landmass. Much struggle has happened as resources are not easily gotten and Astaria's intense winter storm and rain seasons make life difficult.

Technologically this is an Industrial age society, were even the Elves have a textile mill or two. Think 1850-1925 in terms of technological wonders that due exist. Though many have fallen into disuse due to a lack of material resources to support them. Guns tend to be magic-tech and alchemically driven firearms. Medicine is fairly capable with hospitals, surgeons, doctors and alchemical sciences. Automobiles exist and are used but fuel shortages sometimes make them unwise, and electricity is in use as well as a combination telegraph/text messaging service called Voxograph. Essentially a limited telegram that can process a handful of text characters and send them over long mithril wires and messages are typed via type writer.

It is in this world we have Drow, High Elves, Humans, Half Elves, Aasimaar, Tieflings and all our favorite races....

But my friends criticism is simply that the presence of things like pistols, or even laser guns detracts from the fantasy element of it all.

I defend myself by stating that many of my stories and quest tend to revolve around Mystery, Politics and Horror. With quests inspired by Innsmouth, the Russian Revolution and Communist uprising in general, horrifying medical experiments, Occultic rituals, ect ect.

But my friend argues rather intensely that these things are just not suited to Fifth Edition D&D or any fantasy oriented game world.

SOOOO What technology do you guys use?

honestly the items them selves aren't the problem, there is no "correct era", now if you are in a dark age area only a grand magi may have a "lazer gun" aka a multi charge disintegrate ray wand that's crossbow shaped, but in one like you have described its fine, just try to avoid calling them TV or cell phones, they would more likely be a real illusion based crystal occulus system (ribcos), or a rapid anti personnel modified expert caster (rapmec), or some other thing like that, basically in every world ive dm'ed, and most ive been in, if you can explain how it works you can do it, if the character rolls well anyway

[Tzi]

I've found a degree of modernity or slightly familiar modernity can help players, especially when I'm trying to convey say horror or my own unique brand of evil for the party to be in opposition too.

For some reason Industrial sites can creep me out, as well as older Victorian styled homes, or hospitals.

I do try to use fantastical new words or means of describing stuff, but continue to allude to things that are familiar.

One NPC actually that tags along with the players and provides all Arcane casting since they had no Arcane caster and I only had 3 players, was infected with a sort of flesh eating disease of magical origin, meant to change and corrupt bodies and help a necromancy cult raise many MANY corpses. A weird comb of the basic disease of Cabin Fever and the general plot to Wacraft 3 sans a true Lich King. The players were driving in a car they stole from an empty village and when fighting Cultists and exploring empty buildings for clues as to this disaster she became infected without the players knowing or checking. They leveled up quick and made sure none of them were infected and thought Trisha the half elf was simply exhausted in the back bed of the truck. Only to find her in deplorable condition and missing parts of her skin.

They eventually found a surviving city with a hospital and got her treatment which consisted of many tubes, needles and a vat of Alchemical goop. I can't recall my exact description but but it was essentially a bath in cure light wounds potions. They used magic to expel the disease BUT the damage to her insides and body was there and the party seem to be hit viscerally by the description of the medical procedures and devices. I made it seem like a hellish steam punk archaic hospital from the first world war. I've never seen players so readily feel bad for essentially a DM NPC that they ignored and forgot to check up on.

My friend, who isn't a player, prefers more standard fantasies but idk, I guess I just find WAY more inspiration in the recent past. Mainly because I can play on real fears that players might actually have. Like needles as an example, the descriptions of the NPC being "treated," absolutely horrified them and man did they get into it.

Personally I think the goal was achieved for me as a DM.

[infinitetech]

I've found a degree of modernity or slightly familiar modernity can help players, especially when I'm trying to convey say horror or my own unique brand of evil for the party to be in opposition too.

For some reason Industrial sites can creep me out, as well as older Victorian styled homes, or hospitals.

I do try to use fantastical new words or means of describing stuff, but continue to allude to things that are familiar.

One NPC actually that tags along with the players and provides all Arcane casting since they had no Arcane caster and I only had 3 players, was infected with a sort of flesh eating disease of magical origin, meant to change and corrupt bodies and help a necromancy cult raise many MANY corpses. A weird comb of the basic disease of Cabin Fever and the general plot to Wacraft 3 sans a true Lich King. The players were driving in a car they stole from an empty village and when fighting Cultists and exploring empty buildings for clues as to this disaster she became infected without the players knowing or checking. They leveled up quick and made sure none of them were infected and thought Trisha the half elf was simply exhausted in the back bed of the truck. Only to find her in deplorable condition and missing parts of her skin.

They eventually found a surviving city with a hospital and got her treatment which consisted of many tubes, needles and a vat of Alchemical goop. I can't recall my exact description but but it was essentially a bath in cure light wounds potions. They used magic to expel the disease BUT the damage to her insides and body was there and the party seem to be hit viscerally by the description of the medical procedures and devices. I made it seem like a hellish steam punk archaic hospital from the first world war. I've never seen players so readily feel bad for essentially a DM NPC that they ignored and forgot to check up on.

My friend, who isn't a player, prefers more standard fantasies but idk, I guess I just find WAY more inspiration in the recent past. Mainly because I can play on real fears that players might actually have. Like needles as an example, the descriptions of the NPC being "treated," absolutely horrified them and man did they get into it.

Personally I think the goal was achieved for me as a DM.

sounds like great dming to me, was this in person gaming or??? also, these sort of things can be easily referenced to, but in much more grotesque ways by finding out about the olden methods, usually at least so ive found, have you ever seen blood letting done? *involuntary shiver and flinch*, though the pickup truck idea is great for a way to do such a change, also, if it isn't an in person game or if it is and its in WA state id love to pop in some day perhaps, i can play character, gmpc types, or bbgs with equal ease =-)

[Everyl]

There is no tech level that is "appropriate" for a setting with fantasy elements. As long as everything makes sense and the players are having fun, you're doing a good job with it.

There are a number of published, highly-successful settings and games that use modern-ish tech levels with fantasy elements mixed in. Call of Cthulhu, Deadlands, both World of Darkness settings, and Shadowrun all spring immediately to mind, covering tech levels spanning the mid 1800s to dystopian-future 2075 among them. And there's nothing about any edition of D&D I've read that stictly precludes tech levels other than the default pseudo-medieval. On the contrary, it's my experience that GMs who put the thought into doing something that isn't by-the-book are very likely to wind up building rich, interesting settings, because they're actually thinking about what to include, rather than just including everything in the book because it's there.

[Tzi]

sounds like great dming to me, was this in person gaming or??? also, these sort of things can be easily referenced to, but in much more grotesque ways by finding out about the olden methods, usually at least so ive found, have you ever seen blood letting done? *involuntary shiver and flinch*, though the pickup truck idea is great for a way to do such a change, also, if it isn't an in person game or if it is and its in WA state id love to pop in some day perhaps, i can play character, gmpc types, or bbgs with equal ease =-)

They ended up setting fire to their vehicle. Though as a truck it was akin to a truck from the early 1920's. Unfortunately this is California centered in person game. D:

Though if you'd like an NPC made in your honor that can be arranged. XD

[Tzi]

There is no tech level that is "appropriate" for a setting with fantasy elements. As long as everything makes sense and the players are having fun, you're doing a good job with it.

There are a number of published, highly-successful settings and games that use modern-ish tech levels with fantasy elements mixed in. Call of Cthulhu, Deadlands, both World of Darkness settings, and Shadowrun all spring immediately to mind, covering tech levels spanning the mid 1800s to dystopian-future 2075 among them. And there's nothing about any edition of D&D I've read that stictly precludes tech levels other than the default pseudo-medieval. On the contrary, it's my experience that GMs who put the thought into doing something that isn't by-the-book are very likely to wind up building rich, interesting settings, because they're actually thinking about what to include, rather than just including everything in the book because it's there.

THANK YOU

Ah, I feel vindicated by this.

Though this person isn't a player he is part of the "circle," or just part of that gaming circle in my small town and it seems he has a habit of being needlessly contrary over world building and DM'ing.

[infinitetech]

ah, those kinds of players, the dm's bane sort, and darn so close yet so far lol, and hmm, maybe ill whip up a fun shop keeper or something that you could add in for them to undoubtedly forget during battle, hehe, the first time anyway, oh i feel like remaking Ol' Waltr, hmm... ive got some typing and modernizing to do