Erfworld 10 - The discussion thread

[AngryGreek]

And if I had given OotS a "10-strip grace", I wouldn't be reading it today. And I would miss a lot.

Seriously. Are you saying that you didn't laugh once in the first 10 strips? I suppose it's possible. OOTS started out as an individual gag per strip, and developed into a story driven comic while still holding onto good gags and giving tons of props to d&d players, fans of princess bride, and even the occasional tip of the hat to final fantasy fans.

I don't see it with OOTS. To me (and this is just my opinion) if you didn't find the first 10 strips funny, I don't see there is much more to laugh about. There is more story, agreed, but not necessarily more humour.

*EDIT* Cripes! I'm still a bloody Pixie in the playground! AngryGreek doesn't like being a Pixie. AngryGreek wants to be a troll, or an ogre, or something else a little more menacing than a bloody Pixie? (no, Giant et. al., this is not an invitation to downgrade my status to brownie, LOL)

[Khantalas]

I laughed. I laughed a lot. I also laughed at EGS, Dominic Deegan, 8-Bit Theatre and Ctrl Alt Delete. But I knew I would have a lot to see already posted when I began. And I doubt any would be able to capture my interest that quickly if I were to be patient.

I actually got hooked on OotS about when Xykon appeared. And that was not in the first 10 strips. There wasn't even a story in the first 10 strips. Neither was there a story in EGS, Dominic Deegan and 8-Bit Theatre in the first 10 strips. (CAD never had a story, so that's an another matter entirely). But I kept on reading. And I always found something to get me hooked for the rest.

Now, Erfworld got me hooked on about 4 or something. That doesn't mean it's better than OotS. But OotS took longer doing that.

What hooked me? Creativity. OotS is a creative story. As I see it, Erfworld is creative, too. Sure, it may have some silly moments, but they don't break the fourth wall, and it makes them much more funnier, IMHO.

So, yes, I laughed.

[Sebastian Bux]

Alright .. I'm just going to go out and say this because it's only fair after all these posts that I do so:

Erfworld isn't terrible. And actually, it doesn't suck.

So I decided, after however many hours of debating this with people, that I'd go back and reread them (all ten issues) again. After doing so, I decided not that I like Erfworld, but that I may have been a little too harsh about the comic.

In all fairness, Erfworld suffers from one major flaw: Timing.

This is two fold. One is that there are only two strips a week. If you look at the first 6 issues, which were released all at once, you'll see the 4th, 5th, and 6th issue are all one part of hte story. I was thinking that I didn't recall when i read all six of them the first time that I hated it so I wanted to know why I felt so strongly now.

Seriously, it's the timing. Even if it just came down to two pages per update I'd think you're looking at a better comic.

The second part of this timing thing is how it effects jokes. Waiting two days for the punchline really killed the joke for me. The cloth golem thing was really quite amusing, but all of that energy was wasted because I had to be reminded somewhere that the fact they were cloth golems at all was mentioned in comic 9. Imagine if we had gotten the whole joke in one sitting how much stronger it would have been.

Look, this isn't my favorite publication in the world, that much is obvious. And there are still other minor flaws that I'm not fond of. But I said that I thought this comic was terrible and I was wrong. Because of that I'm willing to give them a few more issues to sell me on it. i know this doesn't mean anything to anyone but me, but I thought I'd say it anyway.

The writings not really bad at all, it just needs to be tightened. I think because I had this much dialog on the strip it's really kinda hard to consider not reading it. Now I want to see if my arguements continue to be founded or not. Time will tell...

[Ikkitosen]

LOL @ getting upset about other peoples opinions....

ROFL @ arguing about who's opinion is right....

ROFLMFAO @ arguing over who has the right to criticize or not criticize who's opinion...

Annoyed @ arguing over who has the right to express their opinion...

Extremely Annoyed @ people quoting the opinions of others in order to find holes in their opinions...

Dissapointed @ many of the posters in this thread.

QFT.







(Extra characters)

[Demented]

It's too bad that Wikiquote is restricted to "notable" people, because that quote deserves to be struck in the tablet of history as the penultimate answer to the human condition.

[Harr]

It is, obviously, ridiculously early to be making any kind of judgement regarding plot or character development. I think the person originally bringing 'character development' up as a point really meant something else which he didn't really know how to express. But what is there, has a lot of potential for development, both in plot and in characters.

Aside from that, I agree with Bux, mostly. I want to like the comic. I keep comic back (and I will keep coming back) looking for more and to give it another chance. I love the turn-based fantasy setting. I love the art. I enjoy the characters and their personalities very much. I find the atmosphere slightly mesmerizing in general.

But oh, the jokes... oh, man, the jokes. Whew.

It's like... I can see the joke. It's right there. In front of me. But I can't feel the joke, or taste the joke, or experience the joke. It's like, encased in a little glass case in a museum somewhere inside the comic universe, somewhere where I can look at it, and study it, and analyze it, and I can understand on an intellectual level what the author wanted to do with it, but....... no.

Every joke so far has had me going, 'ooohh, I wouldn't have done it quite like that.' And I don't know why; Im not usually an overly analytical person; reading OOTS or Sluggy or The Noob usually has me belly laughing on my butt with my legs wiggling in the air. But with Erfworld for some reason I end up deconstructing every joke and finding the little detail or the small timing misstep that would have made it work.

(EDIT -> Let me bring up ONE exception to that, which was the Hoffa joke, which I found excellent.)

I'm not going to post any of these joke 'studies' since I already posted one in the past and it did not go over well at all, but suffice to say, from where I'm standing it looks like the author is experimenting with a medium, a theme, or a particular type of humor or story that he's not familiar with, and he hasn't quite found his rhythm with it yet, and it shows.

He also seems to be trying just a little bit hard to cater to the 'gamer/forum kids' audience, which is possibly a new demographic for him, judging by Partially Clips (which is brilliant btw), and that comes across as well. At the risk of once again coming off badly, the ORLY joke had a feeling of "Hey kids look, it's the ORLY Owl! You kids all like that stuff, right?! The ORLY owl from the forums! It's funny right?!" rather than a feeling of the author actually knowing and understanding the joke behind the owl.

However, all this is just good news, since it's only a matter of time before the author does find his groove and everything starts to turn around into better quality, better timing, and a better comic-experience for everyone. I'm rooting for it. That is why I'll continue to come and read.

[Demented]

"Hey kids look, it's the ORLY Owl! You kids all like that stuff, right?! The ORLY owl from the forums! It's funny right?!"

Curse you and your prodigious ranks in Craft (Derisively Humorous Mental Image)!
Something inside me is grinning broadly in amusement.

[pclips]

Look, this isn't my favorite publication in the world, that much is obvious. And there are still other minor flaws that I'm not fond of. But I said that I thought this comic was terrible and I was wrong. Because of that I'm willing to give them a few more issues to sell me on it. i know this doesn't mean anything to anyone but me, but I thought I'd say it anyway.

Means something to me, Sebastian. All we ask is for that fair chance.

That may mean around 15 or 18 pages. Knowing what's coming, I could also make a solid argument for about the 35 page mark, or the whole first storyline (there's a pretty momentous ending planned). But until the story has run its course, I can't give you my case. This might be a fun thread to uncroak next Summer when the story is completed.

I think you have a tremendously valid point about the timing. It's something we were aware of from this project's inception. But hear me out as to why we're doing it this way.

The page-load timing you're talking about--incremental storytelling--is the achilles heel of all art heavy, story driven webcomics when it comes to developing an audience. Many serious, talented creators out there are stymied when they put comic book and graphic novel style comics online, just because the sites are not sticky. People just don't wander in, read a few pages, and bookmark the site like they do with strips.

It's a problem in the medium Erfworld wants to use, not specifically Erfworld. Of the top 10 or so webcomics for traffic, only Megatokyo pins its primary entertainment value on story. The rest all deliver a punchline every day. And Megatokyo started out as a gag-a-day. No comic whose primary strengths are art and story can beat the top primarily funny comics for traffic. I mean nobody. GiantITP.com gets better traffic than Marvel.com.

Putting up a page-by-page "story comic with humor" sandwiched between the updates of a hugely popular "gag-a-day comic with story" is a webcomics first. So this comic is two big experiments in one:

1. Jamie and I want to see if a story comic can overcome the impatience factor if it does not have to be the main reason for coming to a site. Can it sit there as an extra little bonus, developing at its own pace, and eventually flower and form a fanbase?

and

2. The Giant wants to see if having a not-too-similar but complimentary story comic can boost traffic and interest in GiantITP, and create a second fandom that GiantITP can manage things like book publishing and merchandise for. It's a step forward for GiantITP's growth.

So it's a natural match, good for everyone involved. Hopefully, that includes the fans.

I don't think we were ready for this level of reaction, this soon. I've had some trouble absorbing it. But I have to say, for the most part (and in this thread in particular), the discussion of Erfworld has been pretty respectful and rational. I want to thank everyone for that.

And we hope and believe that as the story unfolds, we will win over a lot of the detractors. Even if that means they refuse to read Erfworld, and trash it every day on the forums, then one day in July 2007 they go back and read the whole story and change their mind.

[Greyhame]

That may mean around 15 or 18 pages. Knowing what's coming, I could also make a solid argument for about the 35 page mark, or the whole first storyline (there's a pretty momentous ending planned). But until the story has run its course, I can't give you my case. This might be a fun thread to uncroak next Summer when the story is completed.

<snip>

I don't think we were ready for this level of reaction, this soon. I've had some trouble absorbing it. But I have to say, for the most part (and in this thread in particular), the discussion of Erfworld has been pretty respectful and rational. I want to thank everyone for that.

And we hope and believe that as the story unfolds, we will win over a lot of the detractors. Even if that means they refuse to read Erfworld, and trash it every day on the forums, then one day in July 2007 they go back and read the whole story and change their mind.

Unfortunately, impatience is something inherent to web-browsers (people, not software) and in this venue you MUST capture one's attention immediately or be forgotten because of the next spark of interest.

Having given Erfworld 10 strips to try and "wow" me or even "hah" me for that matter, I have to say it fell short. I'll be sticking with OotS and only visiting Erfworld when bored. Sorry.

[AngryGreek]

Well, following Sebastian's lead, I did reread the entire (to date) Erfworld. It's not spectacular, by any stretch of the imagination. It is, however, FAR more enjoyable when read in sequence at one go than in (what appear to be at the time) disjointed snippets.

My advice is similar to what has already been stated. It would be well worth it to update only once a week, but throw in considerably more content per update.

I still refuse to say that I enjoy the comic (partially because of my own stupid stubborness, and partially because, well, I really don't enjoy it that much), however, I will continue to read it. I will also compare reading it every update vs. reading many episodes at once.

[Ikkitosen]

As alluded to, the genius of this idea is the fact that Erfworld will get a lot of people reading it that would give up on it were it hosted on its own site. The fact that the link to the comic sits right next to a comic we all love so very much means people will probably "just have another look" quite a lot.

Kudos for the idea (whosever it was), and kudos to Rich for having the confidence and unselfishness to share his not inconsiderable spotlight with the new comic on the block.

[TheAnimal]

At any rate, I have no official confirmation of this, but the glass animals in the last panel were likely the "tcotchkes" mentioned in Strip #9. For those not in the know, "tchotchke*" is a Yiddish word for knickknacks, kitsch, etc. Glass unicorns and kittens definitely fit the bill.

That one and the cloth golems really cracked me up.

I wasn't too impressed with Erfworld in the beginning, (more like "Meh, not-OOtS not funny.") but over time it kinda grew on me (like a nasty fungal infection). I was first put off by the big-headed characters and the first two strips seemed somewhat confusing and unconnected.
Now that the series is starting to pick up pace, it gets more and more hilariously insane. I mean, three Elvis clones building a world where Uncroaked soldiers fight marshmallow Gwiffons and glass animals? That's just too crazy not to be fun. Damn you Bob and Jamie, now I'm all addicted.

[Hamhead8]

Hi,

I've never created an account before but thought I should give my two cents.

I love Erfworld and don't want to see a thing changed. I've apparently wasted enough time playing computer games and on internet forums that the references and jokes make instant sense to me, and I'm loving the artwork. I especially like the heroes changing their magic items around depending on what they are up to next, I'm forever doing that when I play. *thinks fondly of Master Of Magic*

I'm finding it an interesting change of pace from OotS. Now to find me an Erfworld avatar...

[Starla]

Alright .. I've given this comic 10 issues before commenting...

Erfworld is really quite terrible. It suffers from really poor writing. The story is all over the place and the chacter development is non existant. Nothing makes sense to me. It lacks the true wit and charm of OOTS.

If there was one thing I could say that was positive about it, it would be the artwork. I actually love the art style. The characters and environs are wonderfully drawn. It's a shame such great panels are ruined by a story that goes nowhere. Where OOTS is clever and funny, Erf is just boring and fractured.

I will say that it does feel like a good comic is in there somewhere, but I don't think it's full potential has been realized yet. Actually, I'd settle for someone realizing it's most basic potential. That would be nice.

Anyway, I've probably only got about a few issues left of this thing before I abandon it completely. Hopefully it won't come to that.

Sebastian

You think the character development is non-existant, but I have seen it in every comic except the first and the first was plot exposition. Oots didn't reveal that a plot existed until #13, the first 12 were mainly good for one-liner kind of jokes that could have continued for a while before they got old and repetitive. There was some character development in the beginning of Oots but it was loose and uncommitted until Belkar was not affected by Unholy blight. There was not nearly the depth that Erfworld is going for which meant that Rich could have developed what he loosely established in any direction.

Haley was clearly not in love with Elan when we first meet them--that blossomed over time. Elan's background was developed in strip #50 thanks to Nale. Durkon has some development in #84. Roy got a little from his father when he showed up with the cryptic clue in #15 but there was far more development in my opinion, when Xykon breaks his sword and we get all those flash backs in #113. We get background on Haley in #131. Vaarsuvius and Belkar have character development but we still have almost no background on them. My point is that if it takes 50 strips to 300 strips to develop a character's background and you are expecting it to be apparent in the first 10 you are wasting your time reading Nerfworld.

Then again I like comics like Earthsong, Directions of Destiny, Inverloch etc. and they aren't so focused on humor as much as they are good stories illustrated with beautiful artwork. So that could be why I am much more readily accepting of Nerfworld than you are. And if you want slow plot development try reading Dreamland Chronicles. I like it but he sometimes drags out in 5 comics what a lot of other comic writers do in one comic.

[Sebastian Bux]

You think the character development is non-existant, but I have seen it in every comic except the first and the first was plot exposition. Oots didn't reveal that a plot existed until #13, the first 12 were mainly good for one-liner kind of jokes that could have continued for a while before they got old and repetitive. There was some character development in the beginning of Oots but it was loose and uncommitted until Belkar was not affected by Unholy blight. There was not nearly the depth that Erfworld is going for which meant that Rich could have developed what he loosely established in any direction.

Haley was clearly not in love with Elan when we first meet them--that blossomed over time. Elan's background was developed in strip #50 thanks to Nale. Durkon has some development in #84. Roy got a little from his father when he showed up with the cryptic clue in #15 but there was far more development in my opinion, when Xykon breaks his sword and we get all those flash backs in #113. We get background on Haley in #131. Vaarsuvius and Belkar have character development but we still have almost no background on them. My point is that if it takes 50 strips to 300 strips to develop a character's background and you are expecting it to be apparent in the first 10 you are wasting your time reading Nerfworld.

Then again I like comics like Earthsong, Directions of Destiny, Inverloch etc. and they aren't so focused on humor as much as they are good stories illustrated with beautiful artwork. So that could be why I am much more readily accepting of Nerfworld than you are. And if you want slow plot development try reading Dreamland Chronicles. I like it but he sometimes drags out in 5 comics what a lot of other comic writers do in one comic.

1 - Did I miss the part where there was a comic name change?

2 - Um, please don't quote me unless you're going to read all of my posts and keep up with the discussion.

[Ikkitosen]

1 - Did I miss the part where there was a comic name change?

2 - Um, please don't quote me unless you're going to read all of my posts and keep up with the discussion.

1. I think she's just having fun with the name

2. I politely refer you to the Rules of Posting.

[Dr._Bob]

Why should my criticism be constructive?
Is the author going to changehis style based on my likes or dislikes? Doubt it.
In my opinion Erfworld sucks.
It is enough for the powers that be to know alot of people agree with me. Certainly not everyone, but plenty.
Shoddy storytelling, ho-hum art, badly done characters. I do not need to give it another chance.
They failed to win me over.

Criticism doesn't have to be constructive, but my point was that it is less likely to be "bashed" if it is.

Interestingly, I see that some of the more vocal Erfworld-haters seem to be modulating their opinions after giving the strip another chance. Sorry to hear you'll be missing out.

[Manga Shoggoth]

I can't say that the slow delivery (a page at a time) has turned me off the comic, 'cos it hasn't. I know the the story will develop slowly - it's frustrating, but I will withhold final judgement 'till there is a good chunk of comic to rate.

As to the humour - without the explanations from people in the forums, I would have missed a lot of the jokes (Or misplaced them, since I thought Orly was a French reference). What I will remember, however, is a comment made by my favourite author, which (somewhat paraphrased) goes like this:

There are two approaches to take if one doesn't understand a joke:

(a) This isn't funny! What's the matter with him?
(b) This isn't funny! What's the matter with me?

I am taking great care to choose (b). I am not going to understand many of the jokes - but I 'aint going to let that stop me from enjoying the rest of the story.

[MrNexx]

Alright .. I've given this comic 10 issues before commenting...

No, you've given it ten pages.

As was said when it was released, this isn't a gag-a-day strip, but more on par with a page from a comic book. Grabbing a random comic from my collection (Wolverine from June 1994), it had 22 pages of story (the rest was ads, letters, etc.). So you've given it slightly under half of an issue to completely and totally entertain you.

I'm forgetting who the author was, but a somewhat famous author, at one point, decided to write a book in public. He sat down in a bookstore and wrote. Published pages as they were done, published chapters as they were done, and so on. Essentially, that's what a webcomic is. Published a page at a time, with limited ability to go back and fix things.

If you don't like Erfworld, fine. My only suggestion is wait about 6 months and come back and read the archives.

[ArmorArmadillo]

I'm just hoping on this thread, so I apologize if I repeat anything.

Essentially, that's what a webcomic is. Published a page at a time, with limited ability to go back and fix things.

The thing is though, Webcomics don't just get to take 22 pages, (11 Weeks in Erfworld publishing time) to make a single major point. They have to be sensitive to their audience, and give them something in those single pages. OOTS does this with the joke-a-minute comic density it has; it's not just the quality of the jokes, it's the fact that it doesn't just make one per issue and expect you to wait several days for the next one.

Furthermore, the Erfworld comedy just plain sucks. There's no getting around this. I'm happy for you if you like it, but to me, I get nothing.
Starting off, we have the speech impedement. "Dwagons," "Twolls," "Gwiffons"
Then, we have the "Kiddie" appearance, Teddy Bear Golems, Griffons shaped like Peeps, etc.

These are examples of jokes that are funny on the surface, (Or not even remotely funny in the case of Erfworld) but have no real depth or meaning. It's okay to have jokes like that, but they don't really stand up on multiple tellings; so why has Erfworld made them the core of the series. I'm sick of you using W's instead of R's, I saw it the first time, it's not funny!

As for the Miniatures parody, I don't see much. I mean, OOTS is funny because it talks about idiosyncracies in the rules that make us look back and realize how dumb/silly/poorly executed they are in the way we handle them (V's familiar), but Erfworld just quotes the rules directly and tosses them in for background. "This Gwiffon has two move left." I mean, yeah, that's the rule. So what? (By the way, OOTS did that joke in issue 3, so don't say "Erfworld just hasn't gotten there yet.)

Also, it's not a matter that Erfworld is just not going for "gag-a-day" like OOTS because they DO try to have jokes, when you read about "Sourmanders" you can tell it is SUPPOSED to be funny, it just, well, isn't. (It's hard to believe that "Findomancer" is supposed to be some higher, more subtle humor than OOTS)

Well, that's my shtick. I'll continue to read Erfworld just because it's next to OOTS and hope that it picks up, but I doubt that will happen.

I will give it this one thing. "I can taste key lime pie." Was funny. (Although once again, no depth. Just nice little random joke.)

[Legendary]

11 weeks is 1/5 of a year, silly. 52 weeks is a year. Anyways, I bet you that people who come here after summer, when Erfworld should be done, people will like it a lot more, as when I reread it after page 10, it was very good.

The thing is, it would be better for there to be, say, 8 pages a month, than 2 a week. It would be liked a lot better. Oh, except people would leave because of the wait. Oh well, that's why it's partnered up with OotS. Because standing on its own it won't do well.

[MrNexx]

The thing is though, Webcomics don't just get to take 22 pages, (11 Weeks in Erfworld publishing times, nearly a year) to make a single major point. They have to be sensitive to their audience, and give them something in those single pages. OOTS does this with the joke-a-minute comic density it has; it's not just the quality of the jokes, it's the fact that it doesn't just make one per issue and expect you to wait several days for the next one.

Not necessarily. As another pointed out, 11 weeks is only a year if you're on Mercury. If they're building something over the course over the course of several pages, then each page does not have to be a tour de force; for a comic I read that is similar, I'd point you to Errant Story. The early pages are very slow, and while there's some humor in them, they aren't specifically about the joke at each page. Megatokyo, I'm told, is even worse about this. "Roomies" and "It's Walky" by David Willis both worked in a similar fashion.

Furthermore, the Erfworld comedy just plain sucks. There's no getting around this. I'm happy for you if you like it, but to me, I get nothing.
Starting off, we have the speech impedement. "Dwagons," "Twolls," "Gwiffons"
Then, we have the "Kiddie" appearance, Teddy Bear Golems, Griffons shaped like Peeps, etc.

Translation: "I do not like it. Therefore, it is objectively bad."

so why has Erfworld made them the core of the series.

How do you know they're the core of the series? They're present, but they don't seem to be important except to say "these are like those things, but not."

[ArmorArmadillo]

11 weeks is 1/5 of a year, silly. 52 weeks is a year.

Thank you. Month/Week error, man is my face red.

::edits post to fix::

Translation: "I do not like it. Therefore, it is objectively bad."

Yes, it is just my opinion. No argument here, should have phrased that better and I apologize. I don't mean to say it is objectively bad, as I said I'm happy for anyone who likes it.

How do you know they're the core of the series? They're present, but they don't seem to be important except to say "these are like those things, but not."

It's one thing when someone shoots out a joke and then leaves it. But every name we see in the series is a variation on this one gag, it gets a bit stale.

[WampaX]

*Points at Girl Genius.

*Points at Erfworld.

*Compares their presentation mediums as similar in scope and fashion.

[MrNexx]

It's one thing when someone shoots out a joke and then leaves it. But every name we see in the series is a variation on this one gag, it gets a bit stale.

Then you have something called "consistency".

[danielf]

i like the Hippiemancers, they are cool :)

[Mauril Everleaf]

And if I had given OotS a "10-strip grace", I wouldn't be reading it today. And I would miss a lot.

It is your right to not like the comic, and voice your opinion, and my right to think you're wrong and voice my opinion.

for once, khan, you and i agree.

The thing is though, Webcomics don't just get to take 22 pages, (11 Weeks in Erfworld publishing time) to make a single major point. They have to be sensitive to their audience, and give them something in those single pages. OOTS does this with the joke-a-minute comic density it has; it's not just the quality of the jokes, it's the fact that it doesn't just make one per issue and expect you to wait several days for the next one.

Ummm, thats exactly what oots does. it makes one joke and then you wait for the next comic for the next joke. what erf does is make a joke or reference to a joke, then exapnds on or finishes it in later strips.

These are examples of jokes that are funny on the surface, (Or not even remotely funny in the case of Erfworld) but have no real depth or meaning. It's okay to have jokes like that, but they don't really stand up on multiple tellings; so why has Erfworld made them the core of the series. I'm sick of you using W's instead of R's, I saw it the first time, it's not funny!

why are they funny in other comics but not funny here? bias much? also i refer you to the the w's for r's count in the comic as of comic 10 (i havent done it yet for comic 11, but there are no substitutions in that one, so the % goes down further).

As for the Miniatures parody, I don't see much. I mean, OOTS is funny because it talks about idiosyncracies in the rules that make us look back and realize how dumb/silly/poorly executed they are in the way we handle them (V's familiar), but Erfworld just quotes the rules directly and tosses them in for background. "This Gwiffon has two move left." I mean, yeah, that's the rule. So what? (By the way, OOTS did that joke in issue 3, so don't say "Erfworld just hasn't gotten there yet.)

this is simply explained. erfworld is not necessarily an expostion on the rules of gaming, as oots was originally set out to be. it is a story based, art intensive comic with a gaming framework. thats where differences in style come to play. do not expect erfworld to be oots. all that does is set you up for disappointment. two things that are different are just that, different. let them be. if you dont like erfoworld based on its own merits, thats fine. but you shouldnt say "i hate it because its not oots" because, by that logic, you hate every other webcomic because they are also not oots. only oots is oots.

Also, it's not a matter that Erfworld is just not going for "gag-a-day" like OOTS because they DO try to have jokes, when you read about "Sourmanders" you can tell it is SUPPOSED to be funny, it just, well, isn't. (It's hard to believe that "Findomancer" is supposed to be some higher, more subtle humor than OOTS)

rob himself said that there will be a wide range of humor in erfworld. things like "findomancer" which are childish funny, "orly" which alludes to web forum and out-dated pop humor, and things like "hoffa" and "livingston" as more intellectual humor. then they toss in absurdities like cloth golems and animate marshmellow peeps and have the characters treat them like normal, everyday things which adds another layer of humor. if you cant find anything funny in the myriad of humor styles, at least appreciate rob's attempts. im not saying that you have to like it, just dont bash the creator for his art.

I will give it this one thing. "I can taste key lime pie." Was funny.

agreed. i laughed a lot at that one.

[Darth Paradox]

As for the Miniatures parody, I don't see much. I mean, OOTS is funny because it talks about idiosyncracies in the rules that make us look back and realize how dumb/silly/poorly executed they are in the way we handle them (V's familiar), but Erfworld just quotes the rules directly and tosses them in for background. "This Gwiffon has two move left." I mean, yeah, that's the rule. So what? (By the way, OOTS did that joke in issue 3, so don't say "Erfworld just hasn't gotten there yet.)

Also, it's not a matter that Erfworld is just not going for "gag-a-day" like OOTS because they DO try to have jokes, when you read about "Sourmanders" you can tell it is SUPPOSED to be funny, it just, well, isn't. (It's hard to believe that "Findomancer" is supposed to be some higher, more subtle humor than OOTS)

Well, that's my shtick. I'll continue to read Erfworld just because it's next to OOTS and hope that it picks up, but I doubt that will happen.

I will give it this one thing. "I can taste key lime pie." Was funny. (Although once again, no depth. Just nice little random joke.)

There's a lot of stuff I could respond with, but I think this Penny Arcade sums it up nicely.

Erfworld is different than OOTS. It's not just a matter of story-focus versus gag-focus - the structure of the humor itself is different.