General Exalted Thread XV: "We hate it and it looks adopted"

[Phelix-Mu]

Thanks to everyone for the helpful responses.

I am trying to get used to just eyeballing what an npc of Essence X should be packing (and getting used to the idea that this game is driven by the requirements of the narrative, not the requirements of the mechanics), but I find mechanically assembling a few npcs of each type has been helpful so far in increasing my grasp of the game and its intricacies (or lack thereof).

[Cirrylius]

Is spontaneous Abyssal exaltation possible? Say if an exaltation is on its way to/from a monstrance, or if the monstrance is destroyed?

[Lix Lorn]

Only if the person is dying, I think.

[golentan]

Is spontaneous Abyssal exaltation possible? Say if an exaltation is on its way to/from a monstrance, or if the monstrance is destroyed?

Yes, but it still requires the abyssal to be to on some level accept the bargain, be traditionally heroic, and be on the brink of death.

[Cirrylius]

...and this creates a rogue, right? Not directly controlled by any Neverborn's or Deathlord's purposeful efforts, but still suffering the side-effects of Resonance from their corrupted Exaltation?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Unless your ST has explicitly allowed this, you should not expect to basically start the game with your Monstrance destroyed.

[Cirrylius]

Oh, yeah, no, this is all just hypothetical spitballing. It just strikes me that in a more conventional Circle it'd be all but impossible to play an Abyssal still under thrall; I was curious if there was a way to facilitate that straight from exaltation.

[Sanguine]

...and this creates a rogue, right? Not directly controlled by any Neverborn's or Deathlord's purposeful efforts, but still suffering the side-effects of Resonance from their corrupted Exaltation?

Yes it would, though they would still hear the Whisper's of the Neverborn to whatever extent they would otherwise.

[Cirrylius]

Yes it would, though they would still hear the Whisper's of the Neverborn to whatever extent they would otherwise.

Really? I thought that Whispers only happened if you were once directly inside the Monstrance, or in the Neverborn's actual presence.

[Sanguine]

Really? I thought that Whispers only happened if you're directly inside the Monstrance, or in the Neverborn's actual presence.

Nope, Whispers have no connection to the Monstrance. Though I suppose the Monstrance could work as a signal booster of sorts, strengthening your connection to the Neverborn and allowing you to hear their Whispers even if you normally wouldn't be able to. Though keep in mind that someone hearing their Whispers doesn't give the Neverborn any special influence over that person. They can communicate with and advise said person, but they can't really control them.

[Cirrylius]

How widely known in Creation are the FUBAR conditions in Yu-Shan (the corruption, the infighting, the abdication of duties by the Incarnae)?

[Lix Lorn]

Not even an inkling, for mortals and exalted.

Elementals and gods likely know.

[Phelix-Mu]

Not even an inkling, for mortals and exalted.

Elementals and gods likely know.

The poor state of affairs between the terrestrial and celestial gods may be a good tip off, though. In my campaign, the characters got involved with a number of small time gods and learned about the dissatisfaction with the celestial bureaucracy by many of the local gods that end up trying to hold things together with little to no backup or resourcing from upstairs. Such dissatisfaction could well cause tongues to wag, and many of my gods saw the reemergence of the Solars as a good chance to try to foment change in the Heavens, with an eye to getting themselves promoted upward in the long run.

But that all is only applicable if the party interacts extensively with gods and spirits, and cares for that whole intrigue/bureaucratic aspect of things. And a ST could also go the opposite way with things, with the most ambitious of the gods of the lower spirit courts maintaining a kind of secret police to quell rumours (or the Immaculate Order could have a tighter grip on more of Creation, since the Immaculate Order serves a similar function), in the hopes of being promoted for being good little godlings looking after their masters' reputations.

[Cirrylius]

Not even an inkling, for mortals and exalted.

Not even the Immaculate Order? I thought they were pretty cheek-and-jowl with the Terrestrial Bureaucracy... okay, but you know what I mean.

But still. Wow. That's a BIG chunk of exposition missing. I'm so much more familiar with the outside-in approach that the specialized sourcebooks and larger internet sources use that I never considered how much ancient history and current supernatural politics would be absent for a starting character

[Phelix-Mu]

Not even the Immaculate Order? I thought they were pretty cheek-and-jowl with the Terrestrial Bureaucracy... okay, but you know what I mean.

But still. Wow. That's a BIG chunk of exposition missing. I'm so much more familiar with the outside-in approach that the specialized sourcebooks and larger internet sources use that I never considered how much ancient history and current supernatural politics would be absent for a starting character

Obfuscation, thy name is Immaculate Order.

Seriously, though, like any good clandestine organization, the Sidereals only benefit from largely controlling the perceptions of mortals as to the current state of affairs. The mortals participate in the Immaculate Order/rationed worship scheme, keep the lesser gods in line, spread the anti-Anathema dogma, and otherwise the whole system exists to entrench the status quo, even as that very system rots from within. While not all of the Sidereals are quite so debased in their outlook on this system (and some of them really don't like it), this was the big tradeoff that the Usurpation was designed to complete. The Celestial Exalts, namely Solars, were steering Creation to its doom (or so many of them believed). To protect it, they tossed out the main engines of change (Celestial Exalts), and put the remaining Terrestrials in charge of a framework designed to protect Destiny (whatever that means), largely by just putting everything on a holding pattern.

Of course, the flaw in that plan was that the Sidereals believed that it was in their power (and indeed, their responsibility) to fix things, even at great cost. The idea that they alone could hold off the future threats to Creation is rather laughable, given their less-overt nature. Too bad their flaw was hubris, lol. The whole setup is brilliant, and really does setup a real clusterf*$k of doom in Creation. A bit heavy-handed, but fun if used in measure.

[Cirrylius]

Obfuscation, thy name is Immaculate Order.

Now that's a Motivation; blow the lid off of the secrecy and corruption endemic in Heaven's government! Exalted Lois Lane!

Actually, the more I think of that the more horrifying the consequences sound

Apart from a drastic reduction in quintessence and ambrosia (and the ensuing collapse of the welfare system), what other consequences would revealing the truth have?

[Drascin]

Now that's a Motivation; blow the lid off of the secrecy and corruption endemic in Heaven's government! Exalted Lois Lane!

Actually, the more I think of that the more horrifying the consequences sound

Apart from a drastic reduction in quintessence and ambrosia (and the ensuing collapse of the welfare system), what other consequences would revealing the truth have?

Well, it really depends on how your ST plays Heaven.

For some STs, Heaven is just a useless waste of resources that should be nuked from orbit (yes, this is a thing I have been told), and therefore nothing much would happen.

For others, Heaven, though corrupt, still performs a useful service making sure things work properly in the world below, especially weather-wise, and this public service just got its funding reduced to a tenth and sent into massive upheaval. So basically, "We are sorry for the current difficulties and thank you for your patience with the natural disasters that will be happening while we reorganize the management system. The service should only be down for a short while, a couple centuries at most. In case of tsunami we recommend making an effort to not drown".

[Phelix-Mu]

Now that's a Motivation; blow the lid off of the secrecy and corruption endemic in Heaven's government! Exalted Lois Lane!

Actually, the more I think of that the more horrifying the consequences sound

Apart from a drastic reduction in quintessence and ambrosia (and the ensuing collapse of the welfare system), what other consequences would revealing the truth have?

Well, of course we can just chalk it up to Impending Apocalypse #43, and have it get in line.

Myself, I usually have opted for characters that are at least a bit more optimistic, hopeful, and wishing to reform and rebuild, as opposed to raze everything to the ground. It's not impossible to fix the problems in Heaven, it's just harder than burning it down.

The main thing that needs to happen is for gods everywhere to stop looking at Heaven in awe and thinking "Man, my life will be so much better once I get promoted to Heaven; I'll do anything to make that happen." A bunch of toady underlings fawning over the Celestial Bureaucracy and attempting to curry favor at every turn is half the problem. The gods in Heaven don't really have to work, because everyone below is eager to get to Heaven, and so will do the work for them. And if they don't, the big gods can send the Sidereals or other minions after those insubordinate wastrels.

So, gods need to be proud of what they do, the role they play in their current station, and not be so consumed with the quest for upward mobility. Some gods still are so principled, but the oppression of the Immaculate Order probably only makes things worse; nothing makes the grass on the other side look greener than a nice bout of blight on your side.

Some of the gods are already wising up to the reality that [almost] everyone that works in Heaven is a douche. It doesn't take a genius to see that most of the best Terrestrial positions, appointed by Heaven, are currently being filled by incompetents, bureaucrats, the corrupt, and the cruel. The directional censors and the lesser elemental dragons are pretty much proof of this. So, the corruption creeps downward, and eventually some gods will become disillusioned with Heaven, and maybe go back to their jobs (or maybe abandon their duties altogether...cue Impending Apocalypse #43). A good, ambitious Zenith or Eclipse caste could easily spread a kind of "campaign of purification" geared toward restoring natural sources of prayer from direct followers (as opposed to the Immaculate system) in return for gods ponying up and doing their jobs. Many gods just want to be the center of someone's attention; in my opinion, the Immaculate system has pretty much hurt the gods' egos, and so they are unhappy and unmotivated. A nice purge inquisition rebirth of the old system of cults will help things out. Bonus points for inspiring the gods, instead of strongarming them.

Sadly, this probably means dealing directly with the Realm in short order, as there is little way for characters to get away with such shenanigans without a holy heaping of monks descending upon their heads and delivering an almighty ton of beatdown. Still, could be an interesting direction for a campaign to go. There are few better allies in Creation for Solars than gods that are discontent with the way Sidereals have re-envisioned Creation.

[Maugan Ra]

I feel a need to point out that Heaven isn't going to have uselessly corrupt bureaucrats in the truly critical positions. Why? Sidereals.

More specifically, Sidereals have charms that can lay an indefinite and unavoidable compulsion on a god to perform their official duties honestly and to the best of their abilities. They are also a relatively unified group of Exalted with access to the greatest levels of Sorcery and Martial Arts the world currently knows.

Of course, the realities of politics and their own limited numbers do mean that the Sidereals can't apply these abilities universally to clean up the whole system, so as before, they are forced into an uncomfortable compromise that just gives people even more reasons to dislike them.

[Lochar]

I feel a need to point out that Heaven isn't going to have uselessly corrupt bureaucrats in the truly critical positions. Why? Sidereals.

More specifically, Sidereals have charms that can lay an indefinite and unavoidable compulsion on a god to perform their official duties honestly and to the best of their abilities. They are also a relatively unified group of Exalted with access to the greatest levels of Sorcery and Martial Arts the world currently knows.

Of course, the realities of politics and their own limited numbers do mean that the Sidereals can't apply these abilities universally to clean up the whole system, so as before, they are forced into an uncomfortable compromise that just gives people even more reasons to dislike them.

That charm would be why Exalts are not allowed near the games. The addicts don't want to be forced to do their jobs. :P

[Phelix-Mu]

Actually, that's all a pretty interesting dynamic. The Primordials built Creation, and then made the games to sit back and relax afterward (or so I've heard). Then the Gods took over, and did the same thing. The games, to the best of my knowledge, are like a miniature thing that models Creation, though I'm not sure where I got this image in retrospect. Creation worships the Gods, who worship the game, which is like Creation.

Add to this that, in my game at least, I've depicted many of the Raksha as circling around Creation like a bunch of people watching television, entranced by the lives and actions and dreams of the delicious mortals that call Creation home.

So the Raksha watch Creation watches the Gods watch the Games, which are Creation.

A strange kind of recursive thing going on there.

[SaurOps]

Actually, that's all a pretty interesting dynamic. The Primordials built Creation, and then made the games to sit back and relax afterward (or so I've heard). Then the Gods took over, and did the same thing. The games, to the best of my knowledge, are like a miniature thing that models Creation, though I'm not sure where I got this image in retrospect. Creation worships the Gods, who worship the game, which is like Creation.

Add to this that, in my game at least, I've depicted many of the Raksha as circling around Creation like a bunch of people watching television, entranced by the lives and actions and dreams of the delicious mortals that call Creation home.

So the Raksha watch Creation watches the Gods watch the Games, which are Creation.

A strange kind of recursive thing going on there.

Games of Divinity mentioned that the eponymous divine diversions was explicitly not the activities of Creation, nor a model for it in any way, shape or form.

[Exthalion]

Apparently Creation also powers the games in some fashion. Infernals mentions refitting them after the Yozi win to run on the demonic essence of the world. Take that with a grain of salt the size of Mount Metagalapa given the source.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Yeah, the only thing linking the Games to Creation is that a "world-machine" is involved in the Games, and I think that's just a thing to make Creation power the Games.

The Games themselves is probably a catalog of all of Firaxis' and Paradox Interactive's strategy games.

[TheCountAlucard]

Apparently Creation also powers the games in some fashion. Infernals mentions refitting them after the Yozi win to run on the demonic essence of the world. Take that with a grain of salt the size of Mount Metagalapa given the source.

I'm sorry, but...

Spoiler: Rant Time!

Show

...making the salt big ruins the idiom.

It's like when people here say, "My two obols." If we're trying to model it after "My two cents," one could say, "My two yen," or "My two dinars," or even "My two cowrie shells." An obol is one-sixteenth of a mina; it's about a month's pay for a person with Resources 1... except that, for most people with Resources 1, it's illegal for them to even own jade! Saying "My two obols" is a lot like saying, "My two one-thousand-dollar bills."

[Phelix-Mu]

I'm sorry, but...

Spoiler: Rant Time!

Show

...making the salt big ruins the idiom.

It's like when people here say, "My two obols." If we're trying to model it after "My two cents," one could say, "My two yen," or "My two dinars," or even "My two cowrie shells." An obol is one-sixteenth of a mina; it's about a month's pay for a person with Resources 1... except that, for most people with Resources 1, it's illegal for them to even own jade! Saying "My two obols" is a lot like saying, "My two one-thousand-dollar bills."

I really like you all of a sudden. *adjusts monocle* That was a top notch rant.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I assume that was just your two ounces of gold?

You know, I never realized how much I needed the Kappa face until I started watching Twitch streams...

[Exthalion]

I'm sorry, but...

Spoiler: Rant Time!

Show

...making the salt big ruins the idiom.

It's like when people here say, "My two obols." If we're trying to model it after "My two cents," one could say, "My two yen," or "My two dinars," or even "My two cowrie shells." An obol is one-sixteenth of a mina; it's about a month's pay for a person with Resources 1... except that, for most people with Resources 1, it's illegal for them to even own jade! Saying "My two obols" is a lot like saying, "My two one-thousand-dollar bills."

Wait, you mean other people aren't rich enough to treat obols as not even worth the time it would take to pick them up off the ground and don't Wyld Shape condiments the size of mountain ranges to season their food? I don't think I could even imagine such a life. You could barely call them human, living in such squalor and barbarism. [/First Age Solar Perspective]

[SaurOps]

Yeah, the only thing linking the Games to Creation is that a "world-machine" is involved in the Games, and I think that's just a thing to make Creation power the Games.

And, again, only if you're going to believe anything in the Caste descriptions of Infernals, which is hilariously off in how it thinks that Green Sun Princes come about as well.

[Phelix-Mu]

So do we know anything about the games? I keep envisioning some version of Chess Olympics for gods, but that is no doubt just my subconscious dredging up a mishmash in the absence of any real info. Any sources?