Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

[comicshorse]

Hey guys! I've got some neophyte questions to ask. My only shadowrun experience has been Shadowrun Returns on pc (great game btw)

1) Japan takes over the world- I get the blade runner angle on this one, but it seems like the US is split between Megacorps, Native Americans, and Aztlan (which I'm 90% sure is Mexico). What does Japan have over these guys?

2) how's 5e? I might buy it and run it as the GM.

3) How hard is it to run? I've played a lot of other rpgs: DnD 3.5/4/PF, Exalted, Dark Heresy, Black Crusade. Is there anything unique to SR mechanics wise?

4) Can you give me an overview of what a typical run might look like? I have a sort of first run in mind. Meet a Johnson, do recon, sneak in, inevitably mess up something, sudden betrayal, fight out, regroup, get paid, rest.

5) How many PCs will I need? I can probably get 3 or 4.

6) what do I have to watch out for in 5e on the "totally broken" scale? Is a certain type of character significantly stronger/weaker than others? Are there any pitfalls I have to watch out for?

Thanks! Hopefully I'll be joining you guys soon.

1) Japan hasn't taken over the world. Japan is a very strong economic power and a strong military power but they haven't taken over the world. In fact I think the only place occupied by them outside if Japan is San Francisco and they may have given that up by 5th ED

3) Matrix running can be a pain as it means the Decker doing something while the rest of the party sit and wait.

4) That sounds pretty good. Though it has been Known for P.C.s to skip the 'inevitably mess up' part

5) To cover all bases you'll need a full magician, a combat character (Street samurai/Physical Adept) and a Face. Unless you're running a Decker as a NPC (which solves some of the problems of 3 above) you will need a Decker. So 3 or 4 PC's should do

6) I'm not very familiar with 5th ED but I have heard bad things about 'Summoner' mages (Mages who summon spirits to do the Run for them) and some of my experience with 4th bears out that they can get to be a pain


P.S.
Damn Ninja'ed. Physical Adept'ed ?

Posted by Delta

Shadowrun and cyberpunk in general is a child of the 80s, a time in which everyone believed that complete japanese global economical dominance was only a question of time. In the 90s, the japanese stock market completely imploded and put an end to that, but by that time Shadowrun had already established its universe with no less than 5 japanese megacorps as opposed to only 3 from the rest of the world

.

True but they did kind of acknowledge that with the introduction of several other mega-corporations into the background. Wuxing seeming to acknowledge China's growing economic power

[Delta]

True but they did kind of acknowledge that with the introduction of several other mega-corporations into the background. Wuxing seeming to acknowledge China's growing economic power

Yeah later editions went back on that somewhat with the breaking up of Fuchi and inclusion of newer non-japanese megacorps, but still the historical basis of Shadowrun says that the 80s economic boom just never went away but instead took Japan all the way to the top, and that's the reason why it's so dominant.

[TimeWizard]

great, thanks for the quick responses. I'll strike "sudden betrayal" from my first run and save it for a meaningful situation.

So the big roles are Magic, Hacking, Combat and Diplomacy?

What's bad about Summoners? I only know them from SR Returns where Summons are like special use Rigger Drones, but with magic.

[comicshorse]

So the big roles are Magic, Hacking, Combat and Diplomacy?

Yes although Riggers can be damn useful as well. Particulalrly on missions were subtlety is not really a consideration

What's bad about Summoners? I only know them from SR Returns where Summons are like special use Rigger Drones, but with magic.

Well, from what I've heard, pretty much just power. Its way too easy for a decently designed mage to just whip up a really powerful spirit that can crush the opposition for the team

[TimeWizard]

Is there a downside to this? Cost, duration, karma investment, etc? Or is there any chance of backfire- can the summon get loose and do its own thing?

[Delta]

Is there a downside to this? Cost, duration, karma investment, etc? Or is there any chance of backfire- can the summon get loose and do its own thing?

Well, summoning does have a karma investment obviously, but less so than spellcasting, since for both you need skills, but the spells cost karma to learn while you can just summon a spirit whenever you feel like it.

Summoning (and magic in general) is definitely the most powerful tool in the hands of a PC who knows what he's doing, mechanics-wise, background-wise, being a powerful matrix user can be even more gamebreaking, but most groups seem to simply ignore or severely limit that power.

[TheCountAlucard]

And in the latest edition, the writers do it for you!

/doesn't like 5e's Matrix rules.

[Telok]

You might want to include Medic in your role list. It isn't a primary role but it's important that at least two people in the group can keep someone alive untill the Doc-Wagon pickup can arrive.

Two more things. With new players they may all end up being gun-bunnies, sams, and ninjas. No magic, no non-combat skills, and no contacts beyond Fixer/Johnson/Bartender. Try to get at least one person to diversify beyond murder skills. They also need at least one person who can drive and has access to a van or other roomy vehicle with tinted windows.

[Lord Torath]

You really want someone with a good Negotiation skill too. It sucks when your loot sells for 15% of its value, when you could be getting 50%. They can also help you pay less for big-ticket items, and get paid more per run.

[TimeWizard]

They're pretty well versed in tabletop rpg's, diversification shouldn't be too much of a problem. Oh, more questions
* What the hell are Technopaths? TvTropes makes me think they aren't mages, and they aren't deckers
* How does Class and Level system work? is it like SR Returns where you spend Karma wherever you want to unlock better stats?
* Are there Martial Art styles? How is Physical Adept?

[Necroticplague]

* What the hell are Technopaths? TvTropes makes me think they aren't mages, and they aren't deckers

While they technically aren't mages, their mechanics are pretty much identical. Replace astral with matrix, astral pollution with signal noise, spirit with sprite, rote with program, ect. Spontaneous casting is called weaving.They just do stuff in the matrix without all kinds of equipment required. And in-universe, their's pretty much no idea how the heck they work.

[comicshorse]

* How does Class and Level system work? is it like SR Returns where you spend Karma wherever you want to unlock better stats?

You gain Karma for doing things ( succeeding at runs, Rp'ing well, etc). You then can buy up your stats or skills with the XP. There's no set advances, provided you can convince your GM its all right you can buy up your skills and stats however you wish

Are there Martial Art styles?

Yep. 'Arsenal' book p156-160

How is Physical Adept?

Er, care to re-type that I'm not sure what you mean

[TimeWizard]

In Shadowrun Returns one of the Archetypes was "Physical Adept", a character who used magic but focused it inward to do Magic Karate (move faster, iron fists, bullet resisting skin, etc) I wasn't sure if this was a "thing" in the actual tabletop and how effective such a build might be.

[Sith_Happens]

While they technically aren't mages, their mechanics are pretty much identical. Replace astral with matrix, astral pollution with signal noise, spirit with sprite, rote with program, ect. Spontaneous casting is called weaving.They just do stuff in the matrix without all kinds of equipment required. And in-universe, their's pretty much no idea how the heck they work.

So basically they're the Laughing Man.

[comicshorse]

In Shadowrun Returns one of the Archetypes was "Physical Adept", a character who used magic but focused it inward to do Magic Karate (move faster, iron fists, bullet resisting skin, etc) I wasn't sure if this was a "thing" in the actual tabletop and how effective such a build might be.

Ah right. Yes Physical Adepts exist in table top Shadowrun. They are a form of Magician whose power manifests not as spells or the ability to summon spirits but as the ability to perform superhuman feats of combat
They cost less build points ( or a lower priority depending on which edition you use) than full magicians.
Physical Adepts have a large list of powers they can draw on (quick reflexes, extra dice for skills, enhanced senses, the ones you mentioned and many others).
The effectiveness of them very much depends on what role you wish to undertake and what powers you pick. Though generally you are better of not trying to match the street samurai for ranged combat but going for the stealthy infiltrator and close up fighter (or Ninja) type.
That said I've seen some ridiculous things done with Troll Archer Physical Adepts but 5th ed may have fixed that problem

[Necroticplague]

Ah right. Yes Physical Adepts exist in table top Shadowrun. They are a form of Magician whose power manifests not as spells or the ability to summon spirits but as the ability to perform superhuman feats of combat
They cost less build points ( or a lower priority depending on which edition you use) than full magicians.
Physical Adepts have a large list of powers they can draw on (quick reflexes, extra dice for skills, enhanced senses, the ones you mentioned and many others).
The effectiveness of them very much depends on what role you wish to undertake and what powers you pick. Though generally you are better of not trying to match the street samurai for ranged combat but going for the stealthy infiltrator and close up fighter (or Ninja) type.
That said I've seen some ridiculous things done with Troll Archer Physical Adepts but 5th ed may have fixed that problem

A side-note/follow-up:Many of the enhanced capabilities physadepts have can also be granted by cyber, gene, or bio. As a result, their good if your playing in a cash-strapped game, since they can use Karma to gain those benefits instead of nuyen. Or if you want to be a magician but still gain the benefits of these things (since taking the physadept powers doesn't lower your essence like those things do). Of course, that's incredibly karma expensive, but what do expect for always being able to cast 3 spells a turn at full power (not counting likeliness fatigue smashes you in the face).

[comicshorse]

A side-note/follow-up:Many of the enhanced capabilities physadepts have can also be granted by cyber, gene, or bio. As a result, their good if your playing in a cash-strapped game, since they can use Karma to gain those benefits instead of nuyen.

True and Phys. Ads won't have cyber that will show up on detection equipment and can of course Initiate

Or if you want to be a magician but still gain the benefits of these things (since taking the physadept powers doesn't lower your essence like those things do). Of course, that's incredibly karma expensive, but what do expect for always being able to cast 3 spells a turn at full power (not counting likeliness fatigue smashes you in the face).

I don't have all my books available so I may be wrong but I though if you went the Physical Magician route that any magic used to purchase Adept Powers was effectively discounted towards any spell casting. And that's assuming you are using an edition that allows you to do both, 4th Ed definitely doesn't allow you to take the Adept and Magician qualities
IMHO I never thought Physical Magicians were worth it, you have to spend a huge amount of points to be a terrible magician and poor Adept (or the other way around). Yes you can cast three spells a round but so can any mage with a reaction spell lock

Y'know I think we really need to know which edition the OP is intending to use

[Dimers]

4e adepts can be decent melee fighters -- good ones, if you're willing to minmax a bit. They can be good gunwielders, especially if you're willing to take a touch of cyber (the Essence loss isn't as important as a few key gains). They can be good infiltrators. They can be surprisingly good faces -- a few Street Magic powers make a big difference. They CAN'T do more than one of those things, really.

Mystic Adept is the half-adept, half-magician. You really have to know exactly what you're aiming for, with that, but it can be best of both worlds (minus Astral Projection).

Magicians rule the roost, though. Anything the adept can do, the magican can do better, and frequently for the party, too.

[TimeWizard]

So basically they're the Laughing Man.

Gotcha. That being said, what advantages/disadvantages do they have compared to a Decker?

Y'know I think we really need to know which edition the OP is intending to use

5e.

[Necroticplague]

Gotcha. That being said, what advantages/disadvantages do they have compared to a Decker?


5e.

Ah. I don't know 5e so all the stuff I say comes from 4e, though i assume enough similarities so as long as I keep things vague, I'm still fine.

One of the advantages it that their "biological node" can't be shut down to my memory. So you can't hack them like you can a computer. Another is that they're always hot-wired in (whether that's a disadvantage or advantage is for you to decide). However, its harder for them to get equipment boni, and they cant have as much cyber to help them. They can just weave what programs they need, though, without spending a lot of time to write them

[TheCountAlucard]

They don't need any equipment to go hotsim, but they're no more "always hotsim" than the decker is, and they still go limp during. You can't hack them, but any Matrix damage they take spills over into real-world damage. Also, even though they don't NEED any equipment, they're going to WANT it, because if you can hack stuff without a deck (and you do in fact need a deck in 5e, because 5e is about putting cats back into bags), that's gonna raise some flags.

So, y'know, despite explicitly not needing it to take Matrix actions, you're still gonna end up shelling out 70,000¥ on what is, to you, a crude brick, just to not be burned at the stake.

[TimeWizard]

Minor meta question Pink Mohawk and Mirror Shades. I get the difference, and I get the mirrorshades reference (Neuromancer) but what's the inspiration for Pink Mohawk?

EDIT: And one more question: Goblinization. Was that a one time thing when Sixth Age began, or do human teenagers turn into orks/trolls during puberty sometimes?

[comicshorse]

Minor meta question Pink Mohawk and Mirror Shades. I get the difference, and I get the mirrorshades reference (Neuromancer) but what's the inspiration for Pink Mohawk?

EDIT: And one more question: Goblinization. Was that a one time thing when Sixth Age began, or do human teenagers turn into orks/trolls during puberty sometimes?

I'm pretty sure that the spontaneous turning of humans into orks/trolls/elves was indeed a one time thing. Nowadays metahumans are created the old fashioned way

EDIT : I think during the whole Time of the Comet thing. Humans spontaneously changed into strange new meta-types,so maybe call it a two time thing

[Necroticplague]

Minor meta question Pink Mohawk and Mirror Shades. I get the difference, and I get the mirrorshades reference (Neuromancer) but what's the inspiration for Pink Mohawk?

EDIT: And one more question: Goblinization. Was that a one time thing when Sixth Age began, or do human teenagers turn into orks/trolls during puberty sometimes?

The pink homawk is a reference to stereotypical punk rockers. No source in specific that I'm aware of. As for goblinization, I think that was a one-time thing. Nowadays, orcs and trolls are born just like dwarves and elves are. SURGE, however, is similar and can still occur partway through life.

They don't need any equipment to go hotsim, but they're no more "always hotsim" than the decker is, and they still go limp during. You can't hack them, but any Matrix damage they take spills over into real-world damage. Also, even though they don't NEED any equipment, they're going to WANT it, because if you can hack stuff without a deck (and you do in fact need a deck in 5e, because 5e is about putting cats back into bags), that's gonna raise some flags.

So, y'know, despite explicitly not needing it to take Matrix actions, you're still gonna end up shelling out 70,000¥ on what is, to you, a crude brick, just to not be burned at the stake.

Plus, you should probably carry something with a normal node anyway. The bio-node can't store information.Soo it's at least a little handy to carry around something for storage anyway. Just slave it to the biological one so you don't have to worry too much about security.

[TimeWizard]

I don't know what SURGE means.

[Necroticplague]

I don't know what SURGE means.

Its the name of the weird condition somewhat like Goblinization that resulted in metahumans known as Changelings. Also created some new paranormal animals and plants. Not horrifically common, but can still occur.

[Timeras]

I'm pretty sure that the spontaneous turning of humans into orks/trolls/elves was indeed a one time thing. Nowadays metahumans are created the old fashioned way

Goblinization originally happened in 2021. I think it was mentioned somewhere that it can still happen but is extremely rare.

Its the name of the weird condition somewhat like Goblinization that resulted in metahumans known as Changelings. Also created some new paranormal animals and plants. Not horrifically common, but can still occur.

Sudden recessive genetic expression. Only happened during the year of the comet. Afaik it didn't create new races but caused random modifications to living (meta)humans, feathers for example.

[TimeWizard]

I only ask about Goblinization because one of the NPC's in SR Returns has no memory of his life before waking up as a troll. Didn't know if that was a common thing. New question: Toxic Shaman. these guys seem cool. AFAIK they have a deep spiritual connection to things like toxic waste, nuclear sludge, acid rain and corrosives. Are they inherently bad? does being a TS affect your mind/soul? are their legal jobs for these guys?

[Rhynn]

Goblinization originally happened in 2021. I think it was mentioned somewhere that it can still happen but is extremely rare.

Huh. My understanding was that Elves and Dwarves (aside from the "first generation," who were "disguised" as humans) are born that way, but Orks and Trolls still "turn" in their teens - did that get retconned/changed at some point, or am I remembering wrong? I'd probably be thinking 2E or 3E stuff...

[Lord Torath]

I don't know about later editions, but Toxic Shamans were originally introduced solely to play the role of Villain in the game (along with Insect Shamans) and were never intended to be used as PCs. They followed different rules for "advancement," and became more or less powerful depending on defeats/victories they inflicted on the PCs.

Most Orks/Trolls are born as Orks/Trolls, but they do occasionally still "goblinize" at puberty - at least in 2E. Although there's no mention of memory loss as a result of goblinization.