OOTS #930 - The Discussion Thread

[ratfox]

Poor, poor Julio. Panel 26. Still, should be a rousing good duel. I wonder if Haley can free V from Laurin in the confusion, and perhaps together those two can take her out?

The worst is that reading that panel 26, we get a scenario which would will satisfy Tarquin.

[oppyu]

1: Well, at least I never actually typed out loud 'it would be ridiculous for anyone to expect Julio Scoundrel to come out of the blue and save the Order here' (much unlike the many times I typed 'it would be ridiculous for Malack to be a vampire'). But I was thinking it.

2: Daaaaaaaamn, Roy has got hit points coming out the wazoo. Someone pass that man a million potions.

[Sylthia]

Julio, NOO! If you strike him down, he will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

[AstralFire]

I am taken aback by this latest turn of events!

The internal movie playing in my head made this scene entirely too epic.

Imagine the wind kicking up dust swirls, Tarquin and Julio's capes billowing out, the Mechane's silhouette in front of the setting sun causing a lens flare (though not as annoying as one from a J. J. Abrams movie), it's even in the rule of thirds, with Tarquin on the left, Julio in the middle, and the Mechane on the right. The orchestra swells to a triumphant, flaring beat, like something out of a romantic fantasy from the 80s (think Princess Bride).

And of course, there's absolutely no shaky-cam, washed-out colour palette, or dutch angles. Just the way God intended.

I visualized this description in a dutch angle. It was still pretty awesome, though.

[quasit]

Wohoooooooooo...go Julio, do or die, but looking awesome either way!

And well, I think mechane is machina is this not. Really, Elan is right, should have seen this one.

Also durkon: A shade! Neat!

[Dandria]

This is. . . this is perfect. Just perfect. I honestly could not have hoped for anything better than what we got in this strip.

My hopes and dreams, restored.

[Forikroder]

Wohoooooooooo...go Julio, do or die, but looking awesome!

And well, I think mechane is machina is this not. Really, Elan is right, should have seem this one.

Also durkon: A shade! Neat!

ya there was totally foreshadowing this would happen

[Shining Wrath]

Another point - the Mechane carries siege engines. Catapults, IIRC, or ballistae.

If there's crew to man the heavy weapons, Laurin and Tarquin have to stay close to the OotS - otherwise, INCOMING. Their only cover in the middle of a desert is being near people that Julio wants to live.

Again, assuming the Mechane is crewed.

[Poppy Appletree]

Two things:

1. I'm betting Tarquin listed around the 30 range in the list of "Top 100 Swordmen [sic] of the Century";

2. There's no way Scoundrél didn't have an inkling about who Elan was, since according to Haley they look incredibly similar.

[Bulldog Psion]

Like others in this thread (I claim no special distinction) I don't think that Julio will die here. It's too obvious a trope for it to not be subverted in some way. I think Durkon's going to join in the fight, since the shade has presumably reached him. Tarquin's going to end up fighting Durkon, Roy, and Julio.

This is a bit of prediction:

The Order and Julio defeat Tarquin and take him prisoner. They drag him along as they go to the Northern gate. What happens to him there, I don't know. But I think they'll take him with them, as the only alternative to letting him stay there as tyrant, or killing him outright (which Elan would object to).

[Shining Wrath]

Julio, NOO! If you strike him down, he will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Dude, if Elan = Luke, Julio is the good father figure = Obi-wan, and Tarquin = Darth.

[Kevka Palazzo]

I visualized this description in a dutch angle. It was still pretty awesome, though.

That's fair. I'm just really, really tired of hack directors using dutch angles as visual shorthand for "EPIC ACTION SCENE" that at this point thanks to Battlefield: Earth and the first Thor, among other movies, that I toss it in with shaky cam and a washed-out colour palette (and overuse of lens flare, though since that's Abrams' thing I'm not as tired of it yet), as a tired, lazy, cinematographic device.

I'm also okay with dutch angles in a horror movie, or during a creepy scene, since it adds a sense of disorientation and confusion.

[Sloanzilla]

It was corny, but I love Elan so very much that I'm happy to see him happy.

[gorocz]

Holy holying holy...
I'm not sure whether I'm more surprised by Julio's appearance or by all the people predicting it in advance. I'm going to go right now to read the whole desert part of the story to find the clues that I didn't notice before...

[Jordan Cat]

Like others in this thread (I claim no special distinction) I don't think that Julio will die here. It's too obvious a trope for it to not be subverted in some way. I think Durkon's going to join in the fight, since the shade has presumably reached him. Tarquin's going to end up fighting Durkon, Roy, and Julio.

This is a bit of prediction:

The Order and Julio defeat Tarquin and take him prisoner. They drag him along as they go to the Northern gate. What happens to him there, I don't know. But I think they'll take him with them, as the only alternative to letting him stay there as tyrant, or killing him outright (which Elan would object to).

Ah, but what if it's so obvious that it's going to be subverted, that Rich actually kills him ,thus subverting the subversion? :)

Anyway, great page, did not expect this at all, although in hindsight we all really should have.

[Reddish Mage]

Where's the ton of hints on this one?

We had Elan's secret plan. Clearly, Durkon used Sending. Julio did say he hoped we would never meet again given that he'd probably just get killed while shouting some final words of wisdom.

Of course, that airship will come in handy getting to the next dungeon and the Order really needs it. I don't see where a hint to that is in.

[luna the cat]

A few people mentioned that Julio Scoundrel would show up. But I can't recall if anyone explicitly tied it in to Elan's Plan.

in my post back in september i did :P

[Forikroder]

Ah, but what if it's so obvious that it's going to be subverted, that Rich actually kills him ,thus subverting the subversion? :)

Julio has to live at least long enough to get the order on the airship

cant wait for another spic pun duel

[Learuis]

I don't think we're going to see Julio Scoundrel die here. I think it will force Tarquin to retreat after some dueling.

I suppose Julio could die and OOTS will ride the airship without him to dwarf lands... but my bet is on Julio surviving.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Dying nobly because honor requires it?

Remember, Hector thought it was his duty to face Achilles because it was his decision to remain outside of Troy as night fell. He thought they'd finish the Greeks the next morning after they had spent the day fighting among the ships.

He did not realize that Achilles would avenge Patroclus. I forget how many Trojans Achilles killed, but it was enough to make the river overflow its banks.

So Hector thought all that blood was on his hands and that duty required him to fight Achilles, and die. That doesn't seem to be Julio's situation.

Also, Julio presumably got the sending and headed for Elan hours ago. He did not know at that time that he'd be dueling Tarquin immediately upon arrival.

Alright, it's just that Hector was the awesome good guy who dies fighting an overrated (but still impressive, if for nothing else than his body count) Bad guy.

Not a perfect analogy, but better than Patrocles.

Maybe a better analogy would be Beowulf against the dragon.

[Shining Wrath]

Ah, but what if it's so obvious that it's going to be subverted, that Rich actually kills him ,thus subverting the subversion? :)

You have made one of the classic blunders! The most famous is getting involved in a land war on the Western Continent, but only slightly less well known is never go up against Rich Burlew with PLOT on the line!

[AstralFire]

in my post back in september i did :P

I dub thee Queen of Predictions. Have a Burger King crown.

Man, I don't think I've ever been so happy about one single update in this comic.

[WufeiLord]

I just realized this: Tarquin's becoming unreasonable is not random. One of his most trusted friends is dead, one that was helping keep him in check. Tarquin got where he is now because of a handful of close friends that could challenge his authority where he needed it. Otherwise, he'd just be a long-dead recurring villain.

See:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0854.html

Malack was a stabilizing support for Tarquin, not just a magical support (cleric). His 'replacement' support (the sorcerer and the nomad) are purely diplomatic allies and don't know Tarquin very well. Malack could have easily been the person to turn to for reason in such a scenario with his son, much like the strip I linked, and could have resulted in a very different scenario.

[Shining Wrath]

Alright, it's just that Hector was the awesome good guy who dies fighting an overrated (but still impressive, if for nothing else than his body count) Bad guy.

Not a perfect analogy, but better than Patrocles.

Maybe a better analogy would be Beowulf against the dragon.

Hmmmm.

I guess I misread Homer, because I always saw Achilles as the hero, and Hector as his noble foil, while Paris plays the role of despicable villain.

[Porthos]

Where's the ton of hints on this one?

We had Elan's secret plan. Clearly, Durkon used Sending. Julio did say he hoped we would never meet again given that he'd probably just get killed while shouting some final words of wisdom.

Of course, that airship will come in handy getting to the next dungeon and the Order really needs it. I don't see where a hint to that is in.

Discussion thread for the 'ton of hints'

But I would also point out one thing. This is Elan saying that. So what he considers a hint and what everyone else considers a hint might not be the same thing.

[Composer99]

I'm hoping Laurin has to eat a few arrows or vampiric slam attacks next update.

[Jolnim]

So then Tarquin is the Devil-King of Dinosaur Island? Tarquin doesn't seem overly concerned about Julio - more like he (Julio) is an untimely annoyance.

[HylianKnight]

How did I know someone would cry Deus Ex on page 1?

It's not a DE if you foreshadow it people. Clearly what he needed Durkon for was a Sending.

Right? Spending a whole strip setting up Elan's secret plan (that comes from Roy's talk about family figures, and for whom he needs the Cleric for a moment), bringing it up multiple times over different strips, and then having the dramatic reveal, IS NOT A DEUS EX MACHINA!!! Having a plot twist or reveal or anything else that literally every story structure has, is not bad storytelling.

Having something make no sense, come out of nowhere, or even just having conflict resolution occur by pure, random chance (see: V being saved from the Death Knight by a falling zombie dragon head out of nowhere) is. And even then it's not inherently terrible if done correctly and in the right moments.

This stip does not qualify.

[Michaeler]

2. There's no way Scoundrél didn't have an inkling about who Elan was, since according to Haley they look incredibly similar.

Their first meeting makes perfect sense if you assume he knows. But then it also makes perfect sense if you go so far as to assume he fathered Thog, hence the shocked expression when Elan plommits about his evil twin's half-orc friend. Not sure what to make of that right now.

[Seeen]

As soon as I saw the last panel, I imagined fanfare.