afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread IV

[ShadowFireLance]

Was Sertous mentioned in anything other then Elder Evils?

[afroakuma]

Seeing as zip codes are (sort of) locations, is it possible you're related to Neth?

Negative zip codes demarcate conceptual space, not physical space. I'm not related in any way to that ridiculous ball of wax.

Sure it is.

-n't. Isn't.

Also, could you list the creatures you remember that make a practise of abducting people?

Can't think of a one.

Unless the writers were being dumb (or I'm misinterpreting the quote), the Wells of Darkness are a special exception to the layers of the Abyss being infinite.

Fine, you odiferous singleminded pedant, Wells of Darkness = finite but easily bigger than a piddling divine realm by miles and miles. Divine realm = horribly horribly small. Point stands: you're wrong.

Did he just decide to ignore that the worms are alive because he really likes worms or something?

They're not life as anyone would normally recognize it.

Was Sertous mentioned in anything other then Elder Evils?

Yes, another source made a passing mention of him. Can't remember if it was Dragon magazine or FCI, and I'm not particularly interested in going to look. It wasn't a significant mention, of course, just the same stuff from Elder Evils and much less of that.

[Rion]

Don't recall seeing that in any canonical source.

Considering I'm pretty sure that's not the only website I've seen describing it (though I may be mistaken) , does that mean it's just a bunch of fanon which spread?

[Norin]

Is it by any chance the same evil being you stop from returning in the adventure "fortress of the yuan-ti"? Xertrous or something.

[123456789blaaa]

What benefits do worshippers get from sacrificing people in the fluff (besides the variant rules in the BOVD)? Is doing so purely a show of devotion that didn't really get the worshipper anything? What benefits does the being who's being worshipped gain? I know that for Demon Princes at least, the sacrificial victims that accept the worship before they're sacrificed go to the Princes realm as petitioners instead of their normal afterlife.

If a non-native obtains the title of Lord of [layer of the Nine Hells], are they known as "Archdevils" even if they aren't actually devils?

Is there any way to turn a demon into an undead creature (besides polymorphing and other form-changing magic)?

If the obyriths came back into power (and assuming the Queen of Chaos and Miska are out of the picture), would they continue the Blood War? IIRC before the Law/Chaos war they mostly kept to themselves.

Last question about the Wells/Ahazu I swear: What do the varrangoins and Ahazu gain from imprisoning powerful beings in the Wells? Wikipeida says that they gain "wealth, power, and prestige" but I can't find anything in the Dragon article that says either way.

While many of the gods/Demon Princes/Archdukes/etc have consorts and lovers, are any actually married? As in "husband and wife"?

[Urpriest]

Is there any way to turn a demon into an undead creature (besides polymorphing and other form-changing magic)?

Lichfiends (Libris Mortis) and Blood Fiends (Fiend Folio) exist.

[123456789blaaa]

Lichfiends (Libris Mortis) and Blood Fiends (Fiend Folio) exist.

Ah yes. I remember that visages (also from LM) can turn other evil outsiders into them as well.

[afroakuma]

Considering I'm pretty sure that's not the only website I've seen describing it (though I may be mistaken) , does that mean it's just a bunch of fanon which spread?

I haven't pulled it up on any of the regular sites. Get me a citation and I'll pursue it further.

Is it by any chance the same evil being you stop from returning in the adventure "fortress of the yuan-ti"? Xertrous or something.

Boom, that's where it was. Thank you. Exact same one.

What benefits do worshippers get from sacrificing people in the fluff (besides the variant rules in the BOVD)?

What benefits do you get besides the benefits? You're a strange monkey.

Is doing so purely a show of devotion that didn't really get the worshipper anything?

Well for some of them it's mandatory as part of the worship.

What benefits does the being who's being worshipped gain?

Depends; usually a sacrificial rite is designed in such a way as to channel power to the entity from the sacrifice, but they don't typically get the soul.

If a non-native obtains the title of Lord of [layer of the Nine Hells], are they known as "Archdevils" even if they aren't actually devils?

Yes.

Is there any way to turn a demon into an undead creature (besides polymorphing and other form-changing magic)?

See posts above.

If the obyriths came back into power (and assuming the Queen of Chaos and Miska are out of the picture), would they continue the Blood War? IIRC before the Law/Chaos war they mostly kept to themselves.

Depends who's leading, I suppose, but various scenarios have been proposed in some sources; I think Savage Tide had one for Obox-ob. Go look.

Last question about the Wells/Ahazu I swear:

Is Fro going to kill you now? Yes he is!

What do the varrangoins and Ahazu gain from imprisoning powerful beings in the Wells? Wikipeida says that they gain "wealth, power, and prestige" but I can't find anything in the Dragon article that says either way.

Well yeah, since they basically sell the service to others. Ahazu wears down their souls for his own power, while the varrangoins make great connections and get recognized as a go-to mercenary imprisonment crew for your most hated enemies.

While many of the gods/Demon Princes/Archdukes/etc have consorts and lovers, are any actually married? As in "husband and wife"?

Oh I'm sure that some must be. The ones based on real-world pantheons would have the same relations as the originals.

[Lord_Gareth]

In what scenario beyond 'legal obligation' would Mephistopheles side with the Lord Below against another of the Archdukes?

[Rion]

I haven't pulled it up on any of the regular sites. Get me a citation and I'll pursue it further.

Yeah no. I can't find anything else. Looks like I mistook someone's homebrew for something official since I don't know much about Planescape.

[Alleran]

Depends who's leading, I suppose, but various scenarios have been proposed in some sources; I think Savage Tide had one for Obox-ob. Go look.

It does indeed. Obox-ob starts hurling armies of obyrith monstrosities at the new Prince of Demons (or the old one, if Demogorgon wasn't deposed). If he manages to depose the current Prince of Demons and reclaim his title, the nature of the Abyss changes. The tanar'ri are rapidly depleted and forced into hiding as the Abyss begins to spawn and disgorge new obyrith armies. These armies don't stay in the Abyss for long, and rapidly begin disgorging through portals and into the Astral Plane, and from there start to plague dozens of places/planes throughout the multiverse. They especially target the eladrin and elemental planes, because the obyriths remember their loss from long ago and want revenge.

That said, it's also noted that even if Demogorgon is killed, it's only a matter of time before he returns, either grown from the shell of a surviving aspect, resurrected by a minion, or spontaneously reformed by the Abyss, so he'll presumably be able to challenge Obox-ob again at some point.

(I'm not sure if this fully agrees with accepted Planescape canon/afro canon, mind you - I'm just noting what the scenario is.)

[afroakuma]

In what scenario beyond 'legal obligation' would Mephistopheles side with the Lord Below against another of the Archdukes?

Well, he hates Baalzebul, so anything involving the crushing of his rival would draw his tacit support. He's too smart to ever fully commit to something alongside his former friend, though, since that's exactly the sort of play that Asmodeus does to wreck people.

Yeah no. I can't find anything else. Looks like I mistook someone's homebrew for something official since I don't know much about Planescape.

Meh, happens.

That said, it's also noted that even if Demogorgon is killed, it's only a matter of time before he returns, either grown from the shell of a surviving aspect, resurrected by a minion, or spontaneously reformed by the Abyss, so he'll presumably be able to challenge Obox-ob again at some point.

I sure wouldn't challenge a fully-restored Obox-ob if I were... basically anyone. The Queen of Chaos only managed to gank him in the first place because it was a complete surprise attack.

[Vedhin]

Meh, happens.

Especially since the Mimir site tends to be fairly well thought out, compared to most things.

[Yora]

While many of the gods/Demon Princes/Archdukes/etc have consorts and lovers, are any actually married? As in "husband and wife"?

I think that whole concept is alien and unsuited for the abyss. Marriage is about property rights and exclusive sexual relationships. Neither of which have any meaning in the Abyss, since almost nobody feels any commitment to past agreements when they no longer like them, and it always comes down to how much power you have to get away with whatever you want. It wouldn't make any difference if the word "married" were applied to two demons.

In Baator it probably would have a lot more meaning, though probably a rather twisted and weird one.

[Vedhin]

In Baator it probably would have a lot more meaning, though probably a rather twisted and weird one.

Actually, Asmodeus was happily married at one point. Now he's a widower, and Levistus cools his heels in an iceberg.

[enderlord99]

Actually, Asmodeus was happily married at one point. Now he's a widower, and Levistus cools his heels in an iceberg.

Speaking of which: Why didn't Asmo try using this? I mean, a 5,000 GP diamond isn't pocket change for him: it's pocket lint! And the only other material component is some of his literal pocket lint!

[afroakuma]

Speaking of which: Why didn't Asmo try using this? I mean, a 5,000 GP diamond isn't pocket change for him: it's pocket lint! And the only other material component is some of his literal pocket lint!

Some forms of killing prevent conventional methods of revival. Even a wish will not bring back Bensozia.

[Mystify]

Some forms of killing prevent conventional methods of revival. Even a wish will not bring back Bensozia.

Because plot.

[afroakuma]

Because plot.

Because on the Outer Planes most of the natives just pop back up on their own eventually, so higher-level kill methods need to exist if you want to actually dispose of anyone. These aren't fluff, they exist in the rules and can be used by players just as easily as NPCs.

[Coidzor]

Is there any way to turn a demon into an undead creature (besides polymorphing and other form-changing magic)?

Isn't there a chance they leave behind a corpse rather than always exploding when killed or was that Devils that have a chance to leave a corpse? Necromancy is typically have corpse will travel, isn't it? Aside from the specific restrictions of the various kinds of undead anyway...


Edit: On the subject of Demons ending the Blood War, what would it take to get those demons that only exist to find other demons and press them into the Blood War to stop doing so?

[Yora]

There is an undead demon in the 3rd Edition Fiend Folio. Not sure if it is undead type or outsider type.

[Tryxx]

Is it possible to point to which Crystal Spheres on the flowchart the various races in Realmspace immigrated from during the first flowering?

[enderlord99]

Some forms of killing prevent conventional methods of revival.

What about unconventional ones?

I mean, sure, he'd probably get a quarut after him, but that doesn't mean much, to him...

...He already tried that, didn't he?

EDIT: By "that" I mean "time travel." I mean, the illithids prove it to be possible...

[Vedhin]

What about unconventional ones?

I mean, sure, he'd probably get a quarut after him, but that doesn't mean much, to him...

...He already tried that, didn't he?

I'd think that he'd have tried everything short of the Words of Creation Once Spoken (or whatever the name of what Vecna used to bust into Sigil was.), and those too if he could find them. The term "Words of Creation Once Spoken" is probably the best thing to come from Die Vecna Die. It just sounds cool.

[ShadowFireLance]

How powerful is a fully restored Obox-Ob?

[afroakuma]

[QUOTE=Coidzor;16615839]Isn't there a chance they leave behind a corpse rather than always exploding when killed or was that Devils that have a chance to leave a corpse? Necromancy is typically have corpse will travel, isn't it? Aside from the specific restrictions of the various kinds of undead anyway...

Necromancy can find a way to do just about anything with a dead thingy. Which reminds me, now that I'm done NaNoWriMo, I really need to resume the Vecna thing...

Edit: On the subject of Demons ending the Blood War, what would it take to get those demons that only exist to find other demons and press them into the Blood War to stop doing so?

Stop the Blood War and they'll stop doing that.

Is it possible to point to which Crystal Spheres on the flowchart the various races in Realmspace immigrated from during the first flowering?

Well. That is not an easy question to answer.

The various authors of Forgotten Realms (including Greenwood himself, the sellout) have been remarkably useless on this front, since earlier canon conflicts with later canon and the Grand History isn't very much help. That said, going by deep analysis on available materials, here's what I've got for you:

Nobody knows where the dragons came from. The elves (at least of the non-dark variety) appear to have emigrated via elven High Magic from Faeriespace. Dwarves seem to have come from a planar origin, so backtracing them to another sphere is impossible. Orcs arrived through portals built by the creator races, and again no definitive sphere is listed for them. Gnomes have no recorded history of arrival, and halflings supposedly arrived in ancient days but first appear in the histories alongside the genies who founded Calimport.

What about unconventional ones?

I mean, sure, he'd probably get a quarut after him, but that doesn't mean much, to him...

...He already tried that, didn't he?

I can't say definitively whether he would or not. Protecting his personal timeline from chronomancy is exceedingly important, after all, and Bensozia wouldn't want him to risk himself and their daughter for that.

Or maybe he did, and someone tried to take advantage of it, and a great and epic story was never told and has been carefully concealed.

How powerful is a fully restored Obox-Ob?

Oh, Demogorgon level easily and then some.

[Alleran]

Because plot.

Or he ganked her with something along the lines of Necrotic Termination:

"If the subject fails her saving throw, the cyst expands beyond control, killing the subject and digesting her soul. Raise dead, resurrection, true resurrection, wish, and miracle cannot return life to the subject once her soul is digested—she is gone forever."

Purely as a hypothetical, if Bensozia's soul had been hidden/transplanted/reincarnated into something else somewhere (or was the Prisoner?), would Asmodeus finding out lead him to immediately throw everything he has into getting her back? Or would he be slower and more patient/plotting, like he usually is?

(Basically, would something like that be likely to break his composure or get him to actually take risks to get her back.)

[afroakuma]

Purely as a hypothetical, if Bensozia's soul had been hidden/transplanted/reincarnated into something else somewhere (or was the Prisoner?), would Asmodeus finding out lead him to immediately throw everything he has into getting her back? Or would he be slower and more patient/plotting, like he usually is?

(Basically, would something like that be likely to break his composure or get him to actually take risks to get her back.)

The planes would shake with the Dark Lord's rage.

[Brookshw]

Speculation: is A seeking divinity as part of a plan to res her?

[afroakuma]

Speculation: is A seeking divinity as part of a plan to res her?

No. wordswordswords