Warhammer and WH40K RPGs II: Burning Witches, Heretics, and Fate

[Gamgee]

They hold off on releasing the pdf's by a month usually. To encourage book sales? I don't know. It seems dumb to me.

[Redrhino10]

Noobie question about DH, anyone able to help?
How can characters get hold of either animals or familiars on a Hive world? And at what cost?
Nothing in the rulebook about actually getting hold of them or buying them :/

[Grim Portent]

The Inquisitor's Handook has the rarity and costs for cyber familiar upgrades in DH, the cost and rarity of the animal to be turned into a familiar is GM dictated on an animal by animal basis, though many hive city vermin are suitable for augmentation like mawflukes and gloomhaunts.

Servo Skulls are also in the IH as familiars, a combat servoskull is 1750 for the melee version, and is rare. That's one of the cheapest and easiest to acquire familiars, so on the whole they're very expensive.

[Gamgee]

I'm looking through DH 2.0 and I'm impressed. Looking at the new sector I have come to a conclusion. It is not worth saving, and that is what my campaign will be about. Destabilizing, destroying, and getting rid of as much of the Askellon sector before the sectors final collapse that is foreshadowed in every single write up of the sector. Tough decisions to be made, and political action as people debate what to do if they find a worthy soul. Send him back to the Imperium and waste precious resources for the extremely stretched thin Inquistion, or leave them to their fate? What if there is a large group or a planet worth saving in this mess?

Just think of all the possibilities. I like this campaign idea already.

[Grim Portent]

I've thought of a daemon weapon/antagonist/player ally for a DH campaign and wanted to get some feedback on the idea.

Spoiler: Whisper

Show

Whisper is the name I'm ascribing to the weapon, alternative names would be Hope, Faith, Destiny and similar such titles.

Whisper is a shining silver dagger, inlaid with gold and with an aquila wing cross-guard, the grip is bound with blue leather and a red gem is inlaid into the pommel.

It contains the essence of a once bound Lord of Change, known in ancient texts as the Voice of Knives. It is reputed among the few aware of it's existence as a herald of political turmoil, revolutions and mass societal change. It is believed to consider itself the patron of individuality, justice and the ability for any to rise through society. It vanished many years ago (last seen in M33) when a planet that had just erupted into full rebellion was assaulted by imperial forces. (Restricted texts state that the daemon was bound into a weapon belonging to an inquisitorial agent to prevent it from it's foul ways. The reliquary in which it was stored was destroyed during a warp storm in M35.)

When encountered by the players it would be during an investigation into a nurgle cult spreading plagues through a hive city, in the cults main shrine (which the players would inevitably get dragged into at some point) they find a dagger sunk deep into a corroded metal block, though the metal around the dagger is clean and unfouled and it glows with a pale light. Assuming they pick it up, (what self respecting DH player wouldn't?) the player in question makes an Opposed Willpower test against the dagger, pass or fail they gain 1d5 corruption, if they fail they suffer no notable consequences. A band of nurgle daemons appropriate to the party then attacks the group trying to keep the dagger imprisoned.

If they don't pick it up, the shrine is assaulted by the daggers guardians, a band of nurgle daemons appropriate to the party's abilities. The dagger will then whisper to the party that it could help them escape alive. If they choose to pick it up test as above, otherwise the dagger can likely be written off as a plot hook.

Whisper does not desire to dominate it's wielder, allowing them free will at all times unless it's direct intervention is required to save the bearer. It instead speaks to the bearer of days when men did not slave in factories or fight unceasing battles. It encourages concepts like democracy, purity, justice, freedom and other idealistic dreams, ideals and goals and will offer knowledge on a broad range of subjects (lore tests based on the daemons intelligence or fiated knowledge) at the GMs discretion.

If Whisper won the willpower test when first picked up, it may channel the bound daemon's psychic powers through itself, temporarily taking control of it's wielder to do so. It's wielder can permit it to do so later if the daemon failed the willpower test, gaining 1d10 corruption in the process . It will only do this to save the wielder's life.

Whisper's ultimate goal is to convince it's wielder to free it and pledge themselves to Tzeentch and the cause of hope, change and destiny, promising them and their allies a glorious legacy as liberators and wise rulers, with it as their adviser.

Examples of things Whisper would say:

'Why not kill the governor and encourage that nephew of his to take power? He understands the plight of the workers, it would save hundreds of lives, improve the lives of countless more.'

'Is it right for these people to be condemned for their crimes? Many, if not most, were harmless petty things. What matter is it if a man fails to attend several sermons in a row? Is it just that they die for ignoring a god that ignores them? Perhaps change is needed in the higher ranks of the local priesthood.'

'Look at them, slaving here in these filthy factories and foundries. They labour long and hard while the nobility dine on the finest sweetmeats and delicate pastries. These poor people live off gruel and the pain of the lash. Is that fair? Is that just? Perhaps you should help these workers, speak to them of the promise of a better tomorrow, the promise of a dream to work toward, the promise of change.'

Any thoughts? Ideas for improvements to the concept?

[shadow_archmagi]

When roleplaying the dagger, I'd base it heavily on Ayn Rand/Andrew Ryan. Have the bearers insist they're not corrupt because look how in control they are!

[gdiddy]

Yeah, I've had Dark Heresy 2nd ed. for ages, it says "Only War" on the front cover.

I'm quite fond of the original beta for 2nd edition, so I'd recommend looking into that.

You're sassy. I completely agree. Dark Heresy 2 really needs to sell me with its setting, because I already have all the mechanics in Only War, minus the char gen and inquisitorial influence.

[Elurindel]

My reservation with buying Dark Heresy 2.0 is that I already have the original and a lot of its splatbooks, so it would be a big investment to start all over again from scratch, especially as I have a lot of Only War stuff too.

[Thragka]

My reservation with buying Dark Heresy 2.0 is that I already have the original and a lot of its splatbooks, so it would be a big investment to start all over again from scratch, especially as I have a lot of Only War stuff too.

Same; I doubt I'll be getting involved in DH2 for a long time.

[Elurindel]

Welp, I have a group running through the modules right now. I'll let you know if they manage to get anybody to Ascend to Daemonhood at the end, and how it affects gameplay. They're currently on a quest for the Tyrant's Cord, where our Slaaneshi Pirate Princess is getting the crap kicked out of her by Dark Eldar who want to drag her off and torture her for running in on them in the middle of their sport. In this instance, it will involve an injection of Rose (makes your sensitivity to sensations increase dramatically) and then attack her with feathers

[blacklight101]

I am right there with you on not getting DH2 just yet, splatbooks and all. Maybe its my fault for being an RP junkie on the side and wanting all the books, but it is definitely a lot of expense for them. I would at least like to play a few games with them before i decide to get the new ones. Unrelated, but im in the same situation for L5R, want to play a couple games before i get the new (to me) books

[Arjhan]

I had this crazy idea that it should be possible to create an untouchable daemon prince. Both Rogue Trader and Dark Hersey have an option to become an untouchable. Dark Crusade has rules to advance one of those characters to a new game once they reach 100 CP. Then Book of Decay has the rules to advance to daemonhood once you reach 100 CP again and the required infamy. of coarse I would go to the trouble to make sure I graduated with a mark of Tzeentch just to piss him off because obviously it would fit better with Khorne.

[Prince Raven]

It wouldn't be possible in-universe, even if the rules allow it.

[Grim Portent]

It wouldn't be possible in-universe, even if the rules allow it.

Not necessarily, it would just be incredibly strange (think Emperor compared to normal man strange).

Untouchables can gain corruption, therefore it stands to reason that the warp affects them.

There was also a daemon possessed untouchable during the Horus Heresy. It was completely insane and could bounce psychic energy back at it's attackers. (He was made by Erebus to murder the Emperor.)

Untouchables also affect daemons in the fluff (though not in the RPGs as I recall), so they affect the warp.

So we know that they can be affected by the warp and disrupt it in turn, it's just a matter of trying to work out what one would be like when they are part of the warp that they are disrupting. I would expect them to go mad due to their paradoxical nature and cause nearby daemons and psykers powers to fluctuate wildly.

[Prince Raven]

That doesn't make any sense...
The whole idea of an untouchable is that they are untouchable by the warp. They should be immune to anything that involves the warp directly affecting them, like daemonic possession. Granted there was that one untouchable who was turned non-untouchable in one of the book series, but he was still immune to warp effects until then.

[Grim Portent]

That doesn't make any sense...
The whole idea of an untouchable is that they are untouchable by the warp. They should be immune to anything that involves the warp directly affecting them, like daemonic possession. Granted there was that one untouchable who was turned non-untouchable in one of the book series, but he was still immune to warp effects until then.

It also doesn't make any sense that someone could walk around in the warp and remain both sane and uncorrupted, but Kaldor Draigo is still a thing.

[Elurindel]

It also doesn't make any sense that someone could walk around in the warp and remain both sane and uncorrupted, but Kaldor Draigo is still a thing.

Unless you buy into the theory that it was he who fell to Slaanesh in Codex: Chaos Daemons. Which I do, wholeheartedly!

[Prince Raven]

It also doesn't make any sense that someone could walk around in the warp and remain both sane and uncorrupted, but Kaldor Draigo is still a thing.

Your problem is that you're confusing things Matthew Ward writes for canon.

[123456789blaaa]

I've been following an excellent long running online RPG game set in the Warhammer Fantasy world on another forum for a while now. It's a Quest (that is, a thread series were people from the forum vote on the actions they want the character to take) that uses modified Warhammer Battle rules (some characters are buffed for example).

Now, the problem is that me and the other players have come into a very tricky situation. I'm wondering whether you guys could give some advice if I explain it.

Spoiler: Situation explained

Show

The character we direct is a knight of Bretonnia called Rambert Gambert. The king Louen Leoncoeur was struck by a personal curse from Nurgle. If a cure isn't found, he'll be transformed into an incredibally powerful Chamption of Nurgle and bad times will be imminent for Bretonnia.

The Fay Enchantress got a vision from the Lady that said a cure was somewhere in Lustria. With this info, she assembled a team of the 12 greatest knights in all the Realm to try and get it. Rambert is one of those (the game has been running for over two years now). The original plan was too go on a boat and sail to Lustria. However, we decided to reveal that we're friends with one of the Wood Elves (who have the Worldroot, a teleportation network linked by forests). The Fay Enchantress thus decided to go to Athel Loren to try and convince the Wood Elves to let us use it.

Now for those of you who've read the 8th Edition book, the Wood Elves have been revealed to be complete jerks. When we traveled their, they said this:

As the gathered elves watch you closely, you step forward before Ariel and Orion, bowing low at the waist, causing a small, amused smile to spring to life on Ariel's lips.

"I am honoured to have won this audience for my people, your majesty. However, I do not speak for my people as a whole in this matter, the Fay Enchantress stepped forward and bowed to Ariel as well.

"I am honoured by your agreement to treat with us, oh Queen of the Wood. The chosen champion of Corrigyn, our noble king Louen Leoncoeur, is under a dire curse by the God of Pestilence, the despised Nurgle. Our goddess has blessed me with a vision of a cure lying far across the ocean in an ancient and exotic land of jungles and mighty lizards. If you are willing, we beseech the aid of Athel Loren in reaching these distant shores in our search for this cure, for the King's life, and soul, slip further into the grasp of Nurgle by the day. Should he fall he will be reborn as one of his mightiest servants and an age of suffering will fall like a funeral shroud over the whole of the Old World."

There is a murmur through the gathered elves, and the young Prince clenches his fists, no doubt tormented by the thought of the noble king Louen Leoncoeur, his father, being twisted into some foul servant of the dark gods.

Ariel watches the Fay Enchantress with a calculating, judging glance. Her face betrays no sympathy, nor contempt, for the Enchantress's words.

At length she turns her head to Orion, reaching to caress his arms as she murmurs something to him that he clearly finds displeasing. Turning back to the Fay Enchantress.

"Should you wish to travel through the Worldroots, you must make an offering. Athel Loren does not suffer outsiders easily, and though I may convince it to make exceptions, I see no reason to intervene on your behalf, not yet. The noble warriors of Bretonnia must gather objects of power, long known of but beyond the reach of the Asrai. There are also creatures who threaten Athel Loren, and by extension Bretonnia, that reside within Athel Loren's borders. Hunt them down and it would greatly entice me to grant your request. Failing these, you may always prove yourselves to Orion, he may prove more amenable to seeing you on your way."

Orion reaches over and gently squeezes Ariel's hand at her words, murmuring with a soft chuckle and a wicked, predatory grin in the direction of you and your fellow Bretonnians.

The Fay Enchantress's lips thin into a grim line as she stands before Ariel.

"We accept these terms, Queen of the Woodland Realm. Where do we seek these objects, and where does our quarry await us?"

Ariel opens her mouth to respond, only to pause as Orion leans over and murmurs something that brings a wicked grin to the female demigod's lips.

"Ah, a splendid idea my love! You will remain here, Herald of Corrigyn. Your warriors must find the objects of power within the Vaults of Winter, and may find their quarries within the Wild Wood. Should they need them, guides will be made available."

The Fay Enchantress looks set to refuse, but eventually bows her head in submission.

We decided to first got to kill Coeddil. We ventured into the Wildwood and managed to find him. He attempted to offer us a deal that would let us kill Orion and thus buy us passage through the Worldroots. However, the rest of the voters voted to immediately attack instead of listening to him. We killed Drycha and almost managed to kill him. However, our mage bodyguard (we have a bunch of elf bodyguards we got in exchange for saving the eleven princess who would become the next Everqueen), was killed and so were almost all of the rest of our group. Because of this, we decided to deal with the Spirit of Ghur (a son of Ulric) we had housed in our soul. In exchange for helping him kill Orion, he would save our comrades. He took control of our body threatened Coeddil into resurrecting our comrades. He also got what Coeddil was going to offer us-an immensely poisonous Thorn.

(by the way, we now know that Orion and Ariel thought they were sending us on a suicide mission. Even if we had succeeded in killing Coeddil, Athel Loren would have gone berserk and killed us all)

He then walked with our fearful and disgusted comrades to the edge of the Wildwoods. However, he had to give control back to us because he couldn't pass while still in control.

We've explained the situation to our comrades and now I'm really not sure what to do. We can't break our word to Ulgyr (the Ghur Spirit) or our honour is forfeit. However, using poison is also a huge no-no. We could attempt to convince Ulgyr to not use the poison. I think I have a pretty good argument but he's almost feral now that he's so close to his revenge. Aside from that, there's also how it's summer so Orion is at the height of his power. Even with Ulgyr's help, how are we going to beat Orion without the Thorn? And even if we do, Ulgyr basically said he wouldn't give our body back. He only gave it back to us because of the warding stones and wants control back as soon as cross them.

Also, we made an oath to our Wood Elf friend to come back alive and the Crown Prince is with us. So if we fail, all of Bretonnia will be wracked by a succession crisis as well as the greatest King since Giles turning into a Champion of Nurgle,. Along with a lot of other terrible stuff.

Also, there were elf rangers right outside the Wildwood borders who heard everything we said-including our plan to kill Orion using the Thorn from Coeddil. They don't even care and are even laughing and telling us to get on with it .

One last thing: Coeddil said that he had previously tried to eradicate the rituals that would allow Kurnous to incarnate himself in the world again and then said that he would soon have another chance. If we do manage to kill Orion, we could very well be permanently crippling the Wood Elves...which they probably wouldn't be too happy about (gee, wonder how our Wood Elf friend who got us passage in the first place would be treated...).

Does anyone have any suggestions or are we screwed?

[Genth]

How do you guys see the talents Peer and Good Reputation working, especially in Rogue Trader?

I'll use my specific example of Peer(Underworld) and hoping to work towards Good Reputation (Underworld), discussing with my GM who brought up the problem that while he could see someone having peer/goodrep in a single hive, or a fleet in say Peer(Imperial Navy), how could those talents possibly work over the whole Koronus Expanse, for example. Obviously, the Talent exists, so it must be possible, but we're wanting to have a bit of an idea of what and how to play to get it.

It's kinda the "Knowledge Local" problem writ to sector wide scales - 99% of humans never leave their planet, so how can someone have a reputation in all the local crime scenes?

[LeSwordfish]

Personally i treat it more like the etiquette rule- a general knowledge of how to talk to the underworld, rather than every scavenger in the calixis sector going "oh, yeah, you did that thing for Mark! Come in, have a coffee."

[bluntpencil]

I've been following an excellent long running online RPG game set in the Warhammer Fantasy world on another forum for a while now. It's a Quest (that is, a thread series were people from the forum vote on the actions they want the character to take) that uses modified Warhammer Battle rules (some characters are buffed for example).

Now, the problem is that me and the other players have come into a very tricky situation. I'm wondering whether you guys could give some advice if I explain it.

Spoiler: Situation explained

Show

The character we direct is a knight of Bretonnia called Rambert Gambert. The king Louen Leoncoeur was struck by a personal curse from Nurgle. If a cure isn't found, he'll be transformed into an incredibally powerful Chamption of Nurgle and bad times will be imminent for Bretonnia.

The Fay Enchantress got a vision from the Lady that said a cure was somewhere in Lustria. With this info, she assembled a team of the 12 greatest knights in all the Realm to try and get it. Rambert is one of those (the game has been running for over two years now). The original plan was too go on a boat and sail to Lustria. However, we decided to reveal that we're friends with one of the Wood Elves (who have the Worldroot, a teleportation network linked by forests). The Fay Enchantress thus decided to go to Athel Loren to try and convince the Wood Elves to let us use it.

Now for those of you who've read the 8th Edition book, the Wood Elves have been revealed to be complete jerks. When we traveled their, they said this:



We decided to first got to kill Coeddil. We ventured into the Wildwood and managed to find him. He attempted to offer us a deal that would let us kill Orion and thus buy us passage through the Worldroots. However, the rest of the voters voted to immediately attack instead of listening to him. We killed Drycha and almost managed to kill him. However, our mage bodyguard (we have a bunch of elf bodyguards we got in exchange for saving the eleven princess who would become the next Everqueen), was killed and so were almost all of the rest of our group. Because of this, we decided to deal with the Spirit of Ghur (a son of Ulric) we had housed in our soul. In exchange for helping him kill Orion, he would save our comrades. He took control of our body threatened Coeddil into resurrecting our comrades. He also got what Coeddil was going to offer us-an immensely poisonous Thorn.

(by the way, we now know that Orion and Ariel thought they were sending us on a suicide mission. Even if we had succeeded in killing Coeddil, Athel Loren would have gone berserk and killed us all)

He then walked with our fearful and disgusted comrades to the edge of the Wildwoods. However, he had to give control back to us because he couldn't pass while still in control.

We've explained the situation to our comrades and now I'm really not sure what to do. We can't break our word to Ulgyr (the Ghur Spirit) or our honour is forfeit. However, using poison is also a huge no-no. We could attempt to convince Ulgyr to not use the poison. I think I have a pretty good argument but he's almost feral now that he's so close to his revenge. Aside from that, there's also how it's summer so Orion is at the height of his power. Even with Ulgyr's help, how are we going to beat Orion without the Thorn? And even if we do, Ulgyr basically said he wouldn't give our body back. He only gave it back to us because of the warding stones and wants control back as soon as cross them.

Also, we made an oath to our Wood Elf friend to come back alive and the Crown Prince is with us. So if we fail, all of Bretonnia will be wracked by a succession crisis as well as the greatest King since Giles turning into a Champion of Nurgle,. Along with a lot of other terrible stuff.

Also, there were elf rangers right outside the Wildwood borders who heard everything we said-including our plan to kill Orion using the Thorn from Coeddil. They don't even care and are even laughing and telling us to get on with it .

One last thing: Coeddil said that he had previously tried to eradicate the rituals that would allow Kurnous to incarnate himself in the world again and then said that he would soon have another chance. If we do manage to kill Orion, we could very well be permanently crippling the Wood Elves...which they probably wouldn't be too happy about (gee, wonder how our Wood Elf friend who got us passage in the first place would be treated...).

Does anyone have any suggestions or are we screwed?

Ask that King Louen name, uh, the Duke of Quenelles his successor before committing seppuku or similar if you're not back in 6 months. He's a super honourable Grail Knight, he'd do it no problem.

[TimeWizard]

I know I'm late to the "Chaos Unaligned" discussion, but there is an Out of Universe reason that it isn't a thing anymore, and naturally its a legal problem. Way back when there was a the unaligned order symbolizing "Chaos is so unstable it naturally rolls in on itself and screws up everything (safely preserving status quo)" or colloquially "Chaos unto Chaos" and this was headed by the god Malal. Malal's shtick was that his champions would go around fighting other chaos champions, and probably anyone else who got in the way. Anyway, after a bt of behind the scenes shenanigans Games Workshop found out that they didn't have exclusive rights to Malal so they would have been on the hook for royalties if the other party pressed forward with a lawsuit. So GW shelved Malal and decided to get rid of his whole deal, leaving us with the Big 4 we know and love. Oh, and probably/possibly they were going to add 4 "lesser" chaos gods to complete the wheel, but that got taken out of the picture years ago.

1d4 chan on Malal
GW on Malal, who call his domain "indiscriminate and anarchic tendency towards destruction.

[Arjhan]

what I believe are the symbols of these four other gods are visible on some pages in the Radical's Handbook such as 41, 48, 64, 72, 84, 100, 108, 116, and others.

[shadow_archmagi]

Personally i treat it more like the etiquette rule- a general knowledge of how to talk to the underworld, rather than every scavenger in the calixis sector going "oh, yeah, you did that thing for Mark! Come in, have a coffee."

That's how I understand it too. It's like that scene in Breaking Bad where the main character organizes a drug deal in an abandoned junkyard, and his street-smart friend criticizes him "This is like, a non-drug dealers idea of how a drug deal looks! Why couldn't we meet at the mall? Lots of witnesses, nobody gets shot!"

Characters with Peer Imperial Navy know how to look good in a stiff blue suit with epaulets.

[Grim Portent]

I tend to assume Peer, Enemy, Rival and Good Reputation mean that people have heard stories of you, rumors and legends essentially. Stuff like:

'Wait, I heard about you! You're the guy who pulled that job on [PLANET]!'

'Ah, good evening [NAME]. I remember your father, he and I served in the same campaign. Good chap. Lost my leg to a bally orkish brute and your old man hauled my rear out of the fire don'tcha know.'

'According to Inquisition documentation you are responsible for the insurrection on [PLANET]. Why should I not just kill you now?'

Or if you're speaking to an Ogrynn:

'Gurk loike liddle man cos Major sez so.'

[ChaosArchon]

So I'm considering getting into Dark Heresy, and noticed the 2nd edition was selling really well on Drivethrurpg. I'm assuming it recently came out then? I say that because normally the newest books are the ones that are on the top of the charts.

Regardless, is 2e good or should I pick up 1e instead?

[The Glyphstone]

Have you played the Imperial Guard-themed game Only War? Dark Heresy 2e is effectively Only War wrapped in Inquisition-flavored fluff...but if you don't have that either, you might as well get 2E to benefit from the supplements they're inevitably going to release.

[Destro_Yersul]

The flipside of that is that if you want supplements NOW, there's loads of them already released for 1E.

Personally, I'd recommend 1E myself, but that's mostly because I prefer the older mechanics. Your mileage may vary and all that.

[ChaosArchon]

Yeah I have no played Only War, so it seems 1e might be the one to go with in that case then huh. Any good supplements to pick up along with it?