Warhammer and WH40K RPGs II: Burning Witches, Heretics, and Fate

[Elurindel]

I don't have much experience with the Ascension rules, but I can see that being fairly easy to house-rule. I would suggest Gifts that are obviously beneficial, since at that point a Prince is master of their own flesh.

[Grytorm]

I kind of want to try and run Only War but I have no experience as a DM and it would be hard to convince people to play where I live. Would it be worthwhile to dive in and try to run a PBP or foolish because of my lack of experience and somewhat poor performance in the past with PBP?

[shadow_archmagi]

Play-by-post... exists. I much prefer doing in-person games, or at least games over skype.

Why would it be hard to convince people near you? Because they're all hardcore into World of Darkness and won't adopt a new system, or are they just not the roleplaying type?

Much of the best D&D I'll ever have took place while I was DMing my first-ever campaign, and I only had two PCs because that was how many nerds I knew, and none of us had any idea what we were doing.

[Grytorm]

Mostly it would be hard because I am not particularly social and don't want to subject experienced players to my attempts to learn. Secondly I live in a small town near a modestly sized city. Enough nerds live their to play but I don't feel that close to them and it would be hard to reliably go to a group. Third the people who are probably my friends I think would prefer to play D&D because it is a bit more flexible, name brand recognition, and not as dark.

[gdiddy]

If you want to game with people, I suggest going to the local gaming club at your school or to your FLGS. Talk to whoever is in charge and ask if you can run a three session adventure of Dark Heresy. Explain that you'll clean up afterwards if they let you use a space and help you find a group for a horror investigation game. Tell them you're a new GM, but you're very motivated and want to jump in with their players.

Here's a quick primer on running DH the first time:

Session I - Introduction
How to teach 3-5 people Dark Heresy and how to teach yourself GM time management.

2 hours of simplified Char gen and getting to know one another OoC and as PCs. Set a timer to represent the narrative pressure of the team in transport as they proceed to their destination. After this, they can fiddle with their sheets, but should concentrate on directly investigating.

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1. Let the players pick Homeworld/Career in front of everyone else that first session. Print out two copies of pages 24-37 of the Core rule book so everyone can flip through the careers and write down the starting gear/skills/talents, as well as character descriptions/divinations/names. Bring the printer-friendly paper sheets for everyone and make sure you provide a couple fistfuls of d10s. Roll wounds and fate points, but don't roll stats immediately. Encourage the players to pick their bonus 400XP of skills and talents during the session or before Session II. If anyone shows up with a pregen, tell them to help the other players and that this is your first time GMing, so you're sticking to a plan to keep the fun going.

"No one has stats rolled yet, so lets say you succeed if you roll under 50 at something you said you're good at or 25 at something you say your bad at. We'll go over degrees of success after people start rolling. If anyone came here pre-rolled like I asked you not to do, you'll be at a slight disadvantage until next session, unfortunately."

2. Let the players meet each other and get to know the ropes of the city or region they are operating in.

"Sgt. Headpunch, you've heard a rumor that your teammate Sneaky McKnifestab..." Then invite Sneaky's player to make up a rumor about themselves.

3. IF YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE A DMPC, make them an Adept. Nothing is more annoying than watching two NPCs fighting. Seriously. Trust me.

2 hours of play and learning the ropes. Have the Interrogator they are working under give them strict orders to report in when they have any serious leads or encounter dangerous resistance.

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4. Be highly forgiving, and explain options.

"You could show the local law enforcement your inquisitorial rosette, but he may tell others who you work for and if he is with the cult, then they'll know who you all are. I'll give you guys five minutes (set a timer) to confer whether you want to proceed cautiously or like gangbusters. This is your team's investigation, I'm just in charge of the NPCs."

5. Use every opportunity to explain the rules. A huge portion of sheets are dedicated to combat, but explain that it's actually quite dangerous to just start fights except in situations you have complete control over.

"You could try just schmoozing him instead. That's Blather, Charm, or Deceive. Does anyone think their character might have the gift of gab? Okay, maybe you should try talking to the next lead.

6. Explain that if the players get bored or that they feel like they're spinning their wheels, they should try the Investigation skills Inquiry, Logic, and Lores are by far the most useful stats for actually finding the bad guys!

"If you guys feel like there are too many loose ends to this crime scene, you could try rolling Logic to find some inconsistencies with the evidence. If you want to ask around and track down some witnesses the locals might have missed, roll Inquiry. If you think that your character might know something about this, write -100 XP at the top of your sheet in pencil and roll the Lore for it. (Congrats, you just bought your first skill!)"

7. Don't set out to kill anyone. But if the players start courting danger, explain you can always burn a Fate point to cheat death. Give everyone who's never played before a free Fate point.

"We'll go into Fate points next session. They have a lot of uses, but for right now, think of them like a 1Up. You can miraculously survive just about anything if you permanently burn a fate point, though your still maimed, burnt to a crisp, or worse."

8. The second they make serious progress and begin to encounter real resistance, remind them to call in. Let the interrogator show whatever level of positive reinforcement is appropriate for their personality.

"Alright guys, you are making real progress getting to the bottom of this and learning the ropes of the system. But now it's probably time to call it."

9. At the end of the session, give them 250XP, plus what is left of their 400 starting XP.

Session II - The Turning Point

90 minute timer: Roll stats, settle rules questions, and let the PCs trade a story or two how they came to serve the inquisitor.

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1. Use a simplified economy. Give them an Administratum expense account that lets them acquire up to 10 of any Average/Common/Abundant item or 1 Scarce item. If they put a rare item on it, it goes through, but they get chewed out.

2. Ask as many in character questions as you can about the situation and the other player characters.

"Brainy, how do you feel about the Sarge's attitude? Do you think you'll intervene next time he and Sneaky start to argue? And Sister Burny, this city seems far from the Emperor's light, what do you think they need to have the fear of the God Emperor put back in them?"

2-3 hours: Make real progress. Learn the Real Bad Guy's name!

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1. If they encounter combat, set a thirty minute timer, and use the psychological pressure of the ticking clock to move it forward. Don't get bogged down in every single roll and all the options during the combat.

"You have an automatic setting on this gun, you can spray that alleyway to drive the cultists into cover or shoot to kill."

2. Instead, stress the importance of knowing your enemy and PREPARING for combat.

"From your investigation, you know that someone is buying up a lot of illegal stub guns, and at least one autogun, a piece of military-grade hardware. These guys are looking to settle this with an armed showdown. You guys may even have a target painted on your backs. Sgt. Facepunch, you were in the military and know the first rule in a firefight is to take cover. The second rule is to anticipate where the enemy is going to take cover and have it wired with det cord yesterday. The third rule is to use your vox to call in the reinforcements."

3. Play up the setting that you hinted at in the first session. Describe the grim darkness of the world of the Imperium for the unfamiliar. Elaborate on the body horror of tech priests who are slowly turning themselves into machines and the Imperial Cult, which preaches the importance of self-torture in worship of the Emperor of Mankind. Then point out those are the paladins.

4.Never forget to sprinkle all communications with Imperial propaganda and encourage the players to quote these. They work for the Emperor's Left Hand: The Inquisition.

Session III - The Sting

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1. Introduce the options to using the economy, full combat system, or other supplements.

2. Explain that the hand-holding is going to be over after this session, but continue to offer helpful advice and jump in with things the characters might/should know.

3. Give them the chance to prepare and run a showdown with the culprit! Let the culprit have a few surprises for them, too.

"The apostate cleric flees off the spire you set your ambush on, and she lands 10m below in the grainbin of a passing grav train. Ten seconds, each of you decide: do you pursue?"

4. Leave the ending on a dubious victory that leads to a wider conspiracy.

5. Have the Interrogator explain that there was another team of more experienced operatives acting as a cleaning crew behind the PCs and debrief them on what the back up team found. Do not roll these characters or throw them in the player's faces. They may not even exist.

For more DH Shenanigans...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTTSf..._zmJ0QALrhKzVg

[Flarowon]

I'm about to start playing a Black Crusade game with some friends, and amm seeking some guidance. I've played other 40K RPGs before - Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy - but this will be my (and the other players'/GM's) first time with Crusade. I'm planning on playing a Q'Sal Magister, from Tome of Fate, and am simply wondering about starting power selection. With core and all the Tome books there's quite a bit to choose from. I'm looking to stay as Tzeentch-themed as possible, so recommendations on powers to take or avoid would be helpful. Anything else, like particular talents to go for, would also be nice.

As a discussion point... how often do people find characters actually dying (as in all fate points burnt and actually removed from play) in 40K games? I've only seen it happen once, to one of my characters, an RT Navigator who for the life of him could not stop being on fire.

...Then after the session I realized I had a mutation that granted regeneration, which would have saved me, so maybe even that one death doesn't count. Im just curious about other people's experiences with this.

Oh, and bonus rules question: what does the N/A clip on the Q'Sal Crystal Caster gun mean? Does it fire forever without reloading or something?

[The Glyphstone]

How much starting XP do you have? The Pre-Aligned careers from the Tomes are noted to have a large chunk of spent XP built into their beginning packages, so check that before you plan on starting out as a Magister.

[HauntWrigs]

I kind of want to try and run Only War but I have no experience as a DM and it would be hard to convince people to play where I live. Would it be worthwhile to dive in and try to run a PBP or foolish because of my lack of experience and somewhat poor performance in the past with PBP?

Same. I have a copy of the module given out on free RPG day (this year or last) and I've been wanting to try it. Today, incidentally, the guy at my LGS started talking about it. But I haven't been too crazy about jumping into the WH40K universe. Turns out Only War is a standalone (that's also compatible). Definitely renewed my interest.

[shadow_archmagi]

In the Rogue Trader game I played, only our Astropath ever had to burn fate, and he had a bad habit of combining complete incompetence with enraging the entire party.

We kept leaving him behind on ships that exploded.

[Flarowon]

How much starting XP do you have? The Pre-Aligned careers from the Tomes are noted to have a large chunk of spent XP built into their beginning packages, so check that before you plan on starting out as a Magister.

Really? I didn't know that (I assumed they got the same 1000 that other humans get), though I did think that the Magister seemed to get a bit much in the way of starting skills and talents. Looking through the book however, I can't find mention of reduced starting XP. Where does it indicate how much is already 'spent'?

In any case, Magisters still get "Up to 500 xp worth of Psychic Powers chosen from the Unaligned, Divination, Biomancy, Pyromancy, Telepathy, or Telekinesis Disciplines, as well as 300 xp chosen from any of the above or the Tzeentch Powers". That should be plenty for powers at creation, so whatever amount of XP I actually do get to spend would go to other advancements.

[The Glyphstone]

Really? I didn't know that (I assumed they got the same 1000 that other humans get), though I did think that the Magister seemed to get a bit much in the way of starting skills and talents. Looking through the book however, I can't find mention of reduced starting XP. Where does it indicate how much is already 'spent'?

In any case, Magisters still get "Up to 500 xp worth of Psychic Powers chosen from the Unaligned, Divination, Biomancy, Pyromancy, Telepathy, or Telekinesis Disciplines, as well as 300 xp chosen from any of the above or the Tzeentch Powers". That should be plenty for powers at creation, so whatever amount of XP I actually do get to spend would go to other advancements.

Look on the first page of Chapter II - page 26 of Tome of Fate. A sidebar called Note To GMs.

"The Chaos Space Marine veterans are both roughly equivalent to a beginning Chaos Space Marine with an additional 3600 XP. The Human characters are both roughly equivalent to a beginning Human Disciple of Chaos with an additional 4600 XP."

This is repeated in the other Tomes for their respective Archetypes, and it caught me by surprise as well.

[Elurindel]

I'm about to start playing a Black Crusade game with some friends, and amm seeking some guidance. I've played other 40K RPGs before - Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy - but this will be my (and the other players'/GM's) first time with Crusade. I'm planning on playing a Q'Sal Magister, from Tome of Fate, and am simply wondering about starting power selection. With core and all the Tome books there's quite a bit to choose from. I'm looking to stay as Tzeentch-themed as possible, so recommendations on powers to take or avoid would be helpful. Anything else, like particular talents to go for, would also be nice.

As a discussion point... how often do people find characters actually dying (as in all fate points burnt and actually removed from play) in 40K games? I've only seen it happen once, to one of my characters, an RT Navigator who for the life of him could not stop being on fire.

...Then after the session I realized I had a mutation that granted regeneration, which would have saved me, so maybe even that one death doesn't count. Im just curious about other people's experiences with this.

Oh, and bonus rules question: what does the N/A clip on the Q'Sal Crystal Caster gun mean? Does it fire forever without reloading or something?

As a long-time player of Black Crusade, I can tell you that Mantle of Lies is a hilariously troll-tastic power in and out of combat. I would also take Paranoia, for fun times and high initiative.

Players tend to either sink or swim in Black Crusade. Or they get a hard beating early on and learn to be more careful, and become god-like in endgame. I have a progressing chronicle on such an adventure on FFG's forums.

[shadow_archmagi]

In Sunday's Dark Heresy game, my techpriest attempted to combine two heavy stubbers into a single twin-linked stubber. He was initially unsuccessful, and determined that it was because the weapon's machine spirits were incompatible. This was resolved by leaving the stubbers at home and letting them watch romantic comedies together during the next mission, after which I rolled a 2 on my Armourer check for an extreme success, so instead of a twin-linked stubber, we ended up with an Assault Stubber (Which, in addition to being Storm instead of merely twin-linked, is also smaller and lighter than the heavy, while dealing the same damage.)

[comicshorse]

In Sunday's Dark Heresy game, my techpriest attempted to combine two heavy stubbers into a single twin-linked stubber. He was initially unsuccessful, and determined that it was because the weapon's machine spirits were incompatible. This was resolved by leaving the stubbers at home and letting them watch romantic comedies together during the next mission, after which I rolled a 2 on my Armourer check for an extreme success, so instead of a twin-linked stubber, we ended up with an Assault Stubber (Which, in addition to being Storm instead of merely twin-linked, is also smaller and lighter than the heavy, while dealing the same damage.)

So any chance of them producing little stubbers ?

[Grytorm]

Hello. I was wondering something about the lore. What would the Imperium likely do if a planetary civil war would disrupt the tithe? At what point would they intervene if neither side is heretical or rebellious?

[LeSwordfish]

Probably a civil war couldn't arise without one side having a political outlook a little more pro-imperial than the other, and I imagine they'd support that side. Otherwise, they might have ties to one side or another - noble families, guard recruitment, etc etc - which could affect things. They'd probably support the side with the old planetary govenor, or possibly just bash heads until everyone stops fighting and listens to them.

[shadow_archmagi]

Hello. I was wondering something about the lore. What would the Imperium likely do if a planetary civil war would disrupt the tithe? At what point would they intervene if neither side is heretical or rebellious?

Well, the Imperium isn't really a unified body, so they'd probably support whichever side had closer ties with whoever is around to give support, which in most cases would be the planetary governor. It's possible that the forces attempting to depose the governor are better connected than he is, but in that case, it's more likely that they'd just assassinate him in a quick, quiet coup than a prolonged war.

[Dynodragon]

Probably a civil war couldn't arise without one side having a political outlook a little more pro-imperial than the other, and I imagine they'd support that side. Otherwise, they might have ties to one side or another - noble families, guard recruitment, etc etc - which could affect things. They'd probably support the side with the old planetary govenor, or possibly just bash heads until everyone stops fighting and listens to them.

Even if they did side the old planetary governor s/he would probably be removed very shortly after for allowing the situation to get that far in the first place. Which of course would make a precarious situation more unstable, its not like the imperium is not its own worst enemy

[LeSwordfish]

Oh yeah- I'm imagining it as no more support than

"You're the govenor of Splitzville?"

"Yes, that's..." *BLAM*

"Alright. Let's win this war and go home."

[Grytorm]

The specific idea was a Imperial World with decent but not massive crucial tithes with a reasonable quality of life and fairly secular lifestyle in the main urban centers providing much of the tithe. The antagonist group would be from the larger more religious but less technically adept rural population. The idea is for a potential Dark Heresy game and they would be investigating the planet after the conflict. Vetting the new planetary governor and hos organization for loyalty. A major point would be the groups hated by the new governor are needed to maintain infrastructure and keep the tithes flowing but the religious faction sees them as decadent.

[gdiddy]

In my experience, players sometimes need a sign post in Dark Heresy when they don't encounter a cackling chaos infestation. I recommend an elderly non-threatening Confessor or landless noble that cynically critiques the petty rivalries that crop up in peace time.

Of course, later reveal s/he's a Horusian heretic who plans to bring a nearby Waaaaagh down on the planet to unite the warring factions.

[bluntpencil]

In my experience, players sometimes need a sign post in Dark Heresy when they don't encounter a cackling chaos infestation. I recommend an elderly non-threatening Confessor or landless noble that cynically critiques the petty rivalries that crop up in peace time.

Of course, later reveal s/he's a Horusian heretic Radical who plans to bring a nearby Waaaaagh down on the planet to unite the warring factions.

Fixed that for you. ;)

[Grytorm]

I have worked out roughly what I want as the plot of my adventure. If I ever run it. So I wanted to see what others think. The Acolytes are sent to the planet I mentioned earlier which recently had a civil war/coup. The world has 6 internal divisions. Kind of like castes but broader social roles some less clear than others. Each has a noble family ruling it. The main tithe is Promethium which two of the groups were responsible for drilling and refining.

The coup was held when the three more militaristic groups, one being the PDF and I am not certain of the other two, worked out a deal where they massacred the old government. They banned trade of excess Promethium and restrict imports from Rogue Traders.

The Acolytes are called in when a former Acolyte and member of the Drilling family/class who was crippled in the line of duty messages the Inquisitor about something sinister going on. He might have been murdered before they arrive or they might be sent in response to the murder.

Two main sinister things are going on. A Khornate cult that worships the eternally bleeding remains of a Chaos Space Marine that forms the core of the most brutal cultural group who I don't really know what they do. Their population has developed quite a few mutations. The other threat is a conspiracy to create a rebellion putting the traditional Promethium related families in charge. It is being funded by a Rogue Trader who used to buy Promethium.

Last they will probably talk to the governor eventually and if they try to turn him to their side an assassination attempt will occur from his bodyguards trying to sow chaos and protect their position as secret.

[Genth]

Are there any ranged attack talents that increase critical damage other than Crack Shot/Stack with it? I'm playing an Arch Millitant in a RT game, all about being the best shot with basic weapons around. Taken the Manhunter alternate career path, got Killer's Eye, which, on a called shot with a good number of degrees of success, lets me auto-roll 1d5 on the Critical Hits table. To be able to semi-reliably (I'd be happy with 1 in 5) 1-hit kill, I need to be able to get up to 8. Crack Shot gets me to a possible total of 7 (ignoring righteous fury)

[Arcane_Snowman]

So... today's session featured a strange and unusual servitor; a frantic fight with a naked, flaming, Ogryn with everyone leaving the worse for wear; and a spectacularly botched infiltration attempt that somehow managed to turn out alright, all of which culminated in the agents dropping all pretenses of subtlety to throw the book at their foe. All in all, everything went completely south of expectations, but it was a lot of fun and a good start to the story.

[TheGreatMeh]

I'm about to start playing a Black Crusade game with some friends, and amm seeking some guidance. I've played other 40K RPGs before - Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy - but this will be my (and the other players'/GM's) first time with Crusade. I'm planning on playing a Q'Sal Magister, from Tome of Fate, and am simply wondering about starting power selection. With core and all the Tome books there's quite a bit to choose from. I'm looking to stay as Tzeentch-themed as possible, so recommendations on powers to take or avoid would be helpful. Anything else, like particular talents to go for, would also be nice.

As a discussion point... how often do people find characters actually dying (as in all fate points burnt and actually removed from play) in 40K games? I've only seen it happen once, to one of my characters, an RT Navigator who for the life of him could not stop being on fire.

...Then after the session I realized I had a mutation that granted regeneration, which would have saved me, so maybe even that one death doesn't count. Im just curious about other people's experiences with this.

Oh, and bonus rules question: what does the N/A clip on the Q'Sal Crystal Caster gun mean? Does it fire forever without reloading or something?

I'm a fan of the telepathy powers for both in and out of combat, liberal use of delude outside of combat can make your mid 30s Fel psyker quite the convincing face, and the shenanigans of using compel inside of combat to make enemies attack each other shouldn't be underestimated. In general though, I like taking mostly non-combat powers with unique utility like personal augury and mask of deceit, with a couple of heavy hitters for combat (my personal favorite is Labyrinthine Conundrum combined with the pyromancy attacks). Precognitive dodge combined with a good forcefield can make you pretty much untouchable in combat and makes it so you don't have to spend much exp on dodge and agility.

[Leon]

So any chance of them producing little stubbers ?

In about nine months ~ give or take warp travel

[Chauncymancer]

Oh, and bonus rules question: what does the N/A clip on the Q'Sal Crystal Caster gun mean? Does it fire forever without reloading or something?

The answer appears to be that the C-Caster was meant to to have two clip settings, hidden in another weapon, and free-standing. But the rule for free standing doesn't appear to have made the final cut.
According to the designer of the weapon, it is supposed to be 1 for hidden, and 5 for free. However the official errata for the expansion books isn't out yet, so there's nothing official.

My answer was that the weapon could only be fired once and did not reload (I used it as basically a self-destructing derringer hidden in other objects that were not guns. This meant that the object was normally destroyed by a bullet shooting out of it.)

[Turalisj]

Huh, never even noticed this thread.

Hi folks, a fan of the WH40k RPGs here. I have Black Crusade, Death Watch, and mostly Only War.

Oh, and I recently got the book for Dark Heresy 2e (and holy jesus it's big, nearly breaks my hand trying to hold it in one hand).

I was wondering what people's thoughts were on using Only War enemies for Dark Heresy 2e. The two seem to be fairly identical in mechanics, at least as far as skills and talents is concerned and NPCs.

[Destro_Yersul]

Huh, never even noticed this thread.

Hi folks, a fan of the WH40k RPGs here. I have Black Crusade, Death Watch, and mostly Only War.

Oh, and I recently got the book for Dark Heresy 2e (and holy jesus it's big, nearly breaks my hand trying to hold it in one hand).

I was wondering what people's thoughts were on using Only War enemies for Dark Heresy 2e. The two seem to be fairly identical in mechanics, at least as far as skills and talents is concerned and NPCs.

The 40k RPGs are all compatible enough that you can port statblocks between them without too much trouble. I myself have pulled stuff from Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, and Black Crusade for use in my Dark Heresy games, though I usually do some tweaking.