Warhammer and WH40K RPGs II: Burning Witches, Heretics, and Fate

[Caimheul]

From what I can find, it's crewed exclusively by Space Marines (the officers), Techmarines, and a few hundred chapter serfs. The Space Marines are limited in the ships they can have in an effort to keep them from being a valid threat to the Imperial Navy following the Horus Heresy. Edit: And servitors, I forgot that servitors are a significant portion of the crew. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Marine_Fleet

[Destro_Yersul]

Well to start with here's the wiki on the Ordos Juris: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Magos_Juris

For more detail on the basis for the human-looking one check out the Factor of the Lathes in the The Lathe World's supplement (which is a tech-priest only supplement that generates a fair bit of controversy). Finally I'd recommend checking out the Dan Abnett novel Titanicus, which also served as a major inspiration.

Oh, they're in Hostile Acquisitions? I'll have to take a closer look at that book, then. There's a lot of good stuff in the fluff bits of some of the books that I've never actually read.

[blacklight101]

Wow, I need to look at more of the fluff too. I missed that entirely somehow. Now I know something else I can use against my players. Thanks Interwebs! (Particularly Shoggy for pointing it out)

[Milodiah]

From what I can find, it's crewed exclusively by Space Marines (the officers), Techmarines, and a few hundred chapter serfs. The Space Marines are limited in the ships they can have in an effort to keep them from being a valid threat to the Imperial Navy following the Horus Heresy. Edit: And servitors, I forgot that servitors are a significant portion of the crew. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Marine_Fleet

...oh, right, that's why servitors exist...do the jobs not glamorous enough for a Space Marine.


Now, back to the RPG books...I'm finding the equipment offerings in the Dark Heresy 2nd Edition corebook a little sparse. I was expecting a little of that since this is the only book (other than an adventure one) out for 2e, but it's still really bare. Which of the other series' books have the best "new equipment" sections?

[blacklight101]

All the 1e stuff has tons of equipment in the splatbooks, DH inquisitors handbook, RT Into the Storm, and the OW stuff seems to have a decent amount with the generator in the back of Hammer.

2e stuff isnt bad, I guess, its just too new to have all the books. DH did have some of my favorites though.

[Milodiah]

Ok, two questions...

1) If there are a few hundred chapter serfs on a battle barge, it'd be acceptable for a DH character to have been the Ecclesiarchy minister aboard for those fellows, right? Did something badass during a counter-boarding action, was too old to get gene-seeds, so the Inquisition came knocking instead cuz he learned a bit too much about the CSMs along the way.

I feel I should mention this is the Space Wolves, who don't adhere to the "Space Marine chapters should be small" philosophy very well, so there's that.


2) What exactly are the (general agreed-upon) capabilities of cogitators in the 40k universe? I get the feeling that it's all somewhat dependent on the writer, as usual, but it seems like 90% of them are for hardware-management and the general running of equipment, but every now and then I get a whiff of data storage and retrieval, as well as data sharing, which makes it sound like the Internet...

[Caimheul]

1) Not so much I think? Chapter serfs typically consist of the survivors of initiation that reject the additional organs. They know too much about the chapter to be left to their own devices, and somebody needs to maintain a Space Marine's armour anyway, best if it is someone already indoctrinated into the Chapter Cult. As members of the Chapter cult I guess their services would probably be led by a Space Marine Chaplain, or barring that, the most senior Space Marine on board I suppose? At worst it would have to be a specially designated serf, as Space Marines are very secretive.

I'm not as up on Space Marine lore. Regardless, their spiritual needs are probably unlikely to be handled by a member of the Ecclesiarchy as the Chapter Cults can differ greatly from the Imperial cult... including the fact that some revere the Emperor, but do not believe he is divine...

2) My understanding is that it differs based on the author. Most of the time, much of the data processing/retrieval is done by Adepts. I don't think the internet is a great analogy, probably arpanet would be better. The information likely wouldn't be freely shared with everyone as that would beget heresy and questioning of the Imperial way. Any information network would still be at most a single planet, with the ability (after much paperwork and fee paying) to maybe use the Astropaths to send/receive additional information. Access I'd imagine would be very restricted, and the information is probably compartmentalized.

[blacklight101]

Session went well tonight. They were to drop off an Interrogator to pick some artifact up. They jump to a system with two fleets fighting, Chaos v. Dark Eldar. I mention they may want to use Silent Running to complete their objective, oh and you feel something from your ship that you have never felt from a Machine Spirit. Fear. Then their Auspex net goes completely dark. They forget all about silent running.

The Explorator and Void Master are blitzing around the ship trying to find bad components. There are burnt out conduits, relays, processing packs, and power feeds everywhere. I make my first Detection roll for the D.E. and they arent found. Immediately they start running harder to fix things and they were flat-out as it was. Next round, another attempt to detect them (with a serious penalty to their, well, lack of hiding).

I rolled a 10, they freaked out now. They thought it was an attack. No attack yet, but the ships were closing after mostly defeating the smallish Chaos fleet entirely. Two more rounds of frantic repairs and the Boarding torps hit. Wyches, forty of them. Only seven by the time the AM gets down there with more armsmen, but she nearly dies to the Wych Cult leader and her Mirrorswords. Two failed Dodge rolls took her into the shallow negatives.

One of her armsmen makes a pair of epic rolls backed by Righteous Fury and takes out 2 Wyches and the Leader in two rounds. This man earned himself a name this day, going from a nearly unstatted commoner to a character that gets an actual statblock before the next sesssion. Cpl. "Icecicle" Jackson.

With the Wyches defeated and my counter ticked off, the Auspex net comes back online and reveals more than one dozen dead Chaos vessels (hard to make a count in that debris field) and the six still living D.E. ships. They pick up the Interrogator and turn-and-burn out of system.

When they return to the system they're beginning to call home, their bounty payments got fast-tracked while they were gone, their order was readied for pickup (thousands of guns), and they sold off some xenostech. They made a ton of cash this time, 9 pf from ongoing objectives. 900XP for the awesome work this session too, they went above and beyond on this one.

Other high points were a Hullghast Hunt, a silverback gorilla servitor with a gatling gun mounted to its back, a lemur servitor (with fez) to turn the crank, some new friends (Peer Talent) in the Admech, an Interrogator thats a pretty cool guy, a couple Deathwatch Kill Marines that are total bros, and a plan to take down a pirate shipyard and make themselves a home there.

I feel like I have some damn cool players. Almost scary that they're doing almost exactly what I thought they would, but I guess playing with them for 6 years will do that. Rule of Cool/ Rule of Funny has quite a bit of ocurrence and results in some pretty neat stuff.

Like monkey servitors that use a gatling gun. ^_^

[Milodiah]

So, I'm working on a background session for one of my players, in which he's one of the Skitarii infantrymen fielded alongside a pair of Warhound Scout Titans. I realized that this is where the RPGs and the tabletop overlap, and I'll admit I know very little about the actual tabletop.

Basically, the situation I need is one in which said Warhounds face Chaos forces able to take them down, but at the same time the tide needs to be plausibly turned by the arrival of deep-striking Grey Knights. What would be the appropriate opposition forces to create such a situation?

[bluntpencil]

So, I'm working on a background session for one of my players, in which he's one of the Skitarii infantrymen fielded alongside a pair of Warhound Scout Titans. I realized that this is where the RPGs and the tabletop overlap, and I'll admit I know very little about the actual tabletop.

Basically, the situation I need is one in which said Warhounds face Chaos forces able to take them down, but at the same time the tide needs to be plausibly turned by the arrival of deep-striking Grey Knights. What would be the appropriate opposition forces to create such a situation?

Right, you need plausible anti-armour, whom the Skitarii can't handle. It also must be Daemonic.

Perhaps multiple forces. Anti-armour... cultists with <insert tech heresy>. Cultists have also summoned X, preventing the Skitarii from dealing with them.

Set it in a city, in order to give advantage to the cultists.

Hmm.

[blacklight101]

Its a Grey Sues save the day scenario? I would rather hear about CREEEEED! Hiding an Imperator Titan than a rescue by the Sues. Thats just me though.

If you must though, Tech heresy at its worst is why they might show up. Tech heresy with a side of the daemonic.

[Caimheul]

Just flat out cultist and daemons of Tzeentch. Combat could have started with a Chaos Titan or tank battalion and a bunch of cultists guarding a ritual site, Ad Mech troops couldn't stop it in time, ritual completed, Daemons start overwhelming everything (Screamers can give armour a very bad day), Grey Knights show up and are able to undo the ritual. Surviving Imperial Guard troops would likely be either killed by the Grey Knights or tested and added to the Inquisitor's retinue... Ad Mech though cause a slight hitch. Adeptus Mechanicus forces are slightly outside of an Inquisitor's direct influence, subject instead to the Magos Juris (basically Ad Mech specific Inquisition) and Skitarii exposed to such things would probably undergo a mindwipe (not uncommon for Ad Mech troops). I suppose the Inquisitor could instead request the survivor(s) be assigned to him, and the Ad Mech might agree as a form of penance for allowing one or both of the Titans to fall?

I'm guessing the Inquisitor is Ordos Malleus from your mention of the Grey Knights.

[LeSwordfish]

There's a brief bit in one of the Eisenhorn novels where a Daemonhost kills a titan by bodyslamming straight through it's face.

[Milodiah]

Its a Grey Sues save the day scenario? I would rather hear about CREEEEED! Hiding an Imperator Titan than a rescue by the Sues. Thats just me though.

If you must though, Tech heresy at its worst is why they might show up. Tech heresy with a side of the daemonic.

I knew this response would happen eventually, I'm no Ward fanboy and all that but I figured that if these soldiers are going to be brought into the Inquisition it might as well be by the Ordo Malleus and their heavy hitters.

[LCP]

Cultists summon mind-control daemon, turn one of the warhounds against the other.

[Milodiah]

Cultists summon mind-control daemon, turn one of the warhounds against the other.

Beautiful, thank you.
Granted, it would take an awful lot of mind-control/possession to totally control a Titan of any kind, even just a Warhound, but if a few key personnel were taken over it would still be a bad day...

[LeSwordfish]

I would assume that the princeps is a single point of failure with regard to that - if you take the Titanicus/Pacific Rim ideas of titan control - one person doing it with a plug in their brain. There's probably some kind of protection there, but that's why you're summoning a demon not getting some two-bit psyker.

[blacklight101]

Beautiful, thank you.
Granted, it would take an awful lot of mind-control/possession to totally control a Titan of any kind, even just a Warhound, but if a few key personnel were taken over it would still be a bad day...

Infect the Princeps and you have the crew. A virus introduced to the fluid he survives in and he is corrupted. On the Gray Sues, I just feel like player actions should have a big effect on a campaign. Some events are unavoidable, yes, but it feels like a little player agency getting stripped away.

Hell, I hope its a fun campaign that your players have a great time fighting through.

[LeSwordfish]

This is a background right? So, not a playable campaign, but somebody's backstory.

[Milodiah]

This is a background right? So, not a playable campaign, but somebody's backstory.

Nope, it'll be played through. Each character will get a background session before the campaign itself starts.

[LeSwordfish]

Hmm, okay. Well, be cautious with it. Deus Ex Marine-a might be an uncomfortable way to end it. How does the player affect what's going on?

[Milodiah]

Hmm, okay. Well, be cautious with it. Deus Ex Marine-a might be an uncomfortable way to end it. How does the player affect what's going on?

The Grey Knights' arrival isn't supposed to be the "ok guys, fight's over, they won for you" type. The players have already proven themselves as competent fighters (i.e. knocked out three tanks in three turns, then a squad of infantrymen, then a bloodletter). Also, the Skitarii and friends will be tossed a target finder by the Grey Knights, told to get to a vantage point, and call down the pain from orbit when the ridiculous thing shows up. So the Knights will fade off into the background to hold the various flavors of badness at bay while the PCs fight their way to, then up, said vantage point.

[Caimheul]

Uh... Is this something they have already done or you're expecting them to be able to do? Unless the vehicle rules have changed drastically in DH 2e, tanks are quite difficult for infantry to destroy even with lascannons as far as I can recall...

[Milodiah]

Uh... Is this something they have already done or you're expecting them to be able to do? Unless the vehicle rules have changed drastically in DH 2e, tanks are quite difficult for infantry to destroy even with lascannons as far as I can recall...

The unit's meltagun hits hard, and I remind you there's a Warhound Titan supporting them. They've already killed three, mostly because the meltagunner made a phenomenal tech-use check and figured out to hit them in the gun, since these are the Eradicator patterns of Leman Russes and setting off the ammunition before it's fired is pretty catastrophic.

[Milodiah]

So, my Psyker player seems to have gotten the impression that he can make an opposed check against enemy Psykers to essentially counterspell their powers, even when they're not targeted at him. He has no powers that allow this (or at all, actually), and I don't see anything in the rules that support this.

I don't mean the type of psyker powers that have an Opposed check, like Enfeeble or Life Leech. I mean that he tries to "shut down" any psyker power that happens around him, even if it's just the enemy trying to put up a telekinetic shield around himself.

Am I missing something, or is he just wrong?

[LeSwordfish]

He's just wrong. That's not an ability that exists- he might be getting confused with Untouchables. Does he have any special rank or background in the game? It's possible he's got some niche ability i forgot, but I suspect he's just bull****ing.

[Destro_Yersul]

Space Marine Librarians equipped with a psychic hood are capable of nullifying enemy powers. In the tabletop game they all get a psychic hood for free, but Deathwatch characters need Distinguished renown and 25 requisition points to spend to get one. Bog-standard sanctioned psykers are never going to have access to something like that, and it's impossible to outright nullify enemy powers without one.

[Kris Strife]

There's also Tabletop's 'Deny the Witch' thing which, hearing it like fifth hand, I think means you don't even need to be a psyker.

[Caimheul]

There's also Tabletop's 'Deny the Witch' thing which, hearing it like fifth hand, I think means you don't even need to be a psyker.

Bonuses to Deny the Wytch rolls for having a psyker in the unit that is targeted (or in a certain radius?) IIRC. So maybe he's trying to port that over? But that is solely the TT game, so... No.

[Turalisj]

Something that has always irked me..... how do you balance the encounter?